Fascism

[Dogmaphobe]

That graph is a piece of propaganda intended to deceive. Below is how the political plain is properly divided:

Liberalism isn't on the "left", Fingerboi.

If you limit yourself to two dimensions (which doesn't at all surprise me) it's better placed at the top where you have "Libertarian" sitting.

Wrong. Liberalism is indeed on the left. Not even your Komrades deny that. The one thing modern liberals don't believe in is liberty.

Pogo is an authoritarian leftist who doesn't know the first thing about actual liberal ideology. He doesn't understand it as a color-blind system that promotes social justice over social order but an entirely different system that codifies identity as the source of that very sense of justice.

Political correctness has morphed over the years into an iron-fisted monstrosity predicated upon double standards and represents little beyond an inversion of the old sense of social order. That isn't liberalism in action, but just an overreaction that has created a new paradigm to replace the old.

As I tried to point out earlier by referencing the imagery inherent in the selection of the fasces to represent the Italian movement for which it is named, it is all ABOUT conformity. The demands for such these leftists impose through their political correctness is FAR more conformist in nature than anything they can attach to trump.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Definitions of fascism - Wikipedia

Umberto Eco
In his 1995 essay "Eternal Fascism", Umberto Eco lists fourteen general properties of fascist ideology.[11] He argues that it is not possible to organise these into a coherent system, but that "it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it". He uses the term "Ur-fascism" as a generic description of different historical forms of fascism. The fourteen properties are as follows:

• "The Cult of Tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by Tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.
• "The Rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.
• "The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
• "Disagreement Is Treason" – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.
• "Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.
• "Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.
• "Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society (such as the German elite's 'fear' of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings; see also anti-Semitism). Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.
• Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.
• "Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to NOT build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.
• "Contempt for the Weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate Leader who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.
• "Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death."
• "Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality."
• "Selective Populism" – The People, conceived monolithically, have a Common Will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the Leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the Voice of the People."
• "Newspeak" – Fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.

Sound familiar....?

Opening in theatres near you January 20th, 2017.

Every one of those "characteristics" fits progressive, communist, socialist and religious theocracies as well. That's the problem with the list, it is so non specific, and general, as to be useless other than showing that pretty much all collectivist government systems suck in some manner or other.

Another dishonest post, using the half-truth, a lie by omission. These characteristics do not define the liberal or progressive; and each of the other noted ideologies can but are not always examples of an Authoritarian Regime, which is what fascism (small f) is too. Do try to think and consider with whatever amount of sagacious ability you might have on each of the 14 points, and compare them with the words of P-e Trump.

"Authoritarian" does not equate to "fascist." Authoritarian regimes have been around since civilization began. Fascism is supposedly an economic system. Nothing in the 14 points is related to economics. It's pure bullshit.

Confused? Or unable to read and comprehend? I posted "...and each of the other noted ideologies can but are not always examples of an Authoritarian Regime, which is what fascism (small f) is too."

 

[Pogo]

That graph is a piece of propaganda intended to deceive. Below is how the political plain is properly divided:

Liberalism isn't on the "left", Fingerboi.

If you limit yourself to two dimensions (which doesn't at all surprise me) it's better placed at the top where you have "Libertarian" sitting.

US Progressives are Libertarian ...
too funny

tell that to Christian bakers

Where did I use the term "Progressives", Jackwagon?

I actually know who the Progressives were. That's why I didn't.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Really, a moot point since the Democratic party has bee pushed to the extreme left
by Progressives and is now controlled by them,,,,

Remember Blue Dogs

to say "All Lives Matter"
is now a sin

Keith Ellison head of the DNC?
talk about stuck on stupid


of course, it is perfectly understandable
why one would not want to be associated with the Progressives

the fascist wing of the Democrats

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Keith Ellison head of the DNC?
talk about stuck on stupid

.....but look on the bright side. We may end up with Louis Farrakhan as the keynote speaker at the 2020 Dem convention.

Won't that be a hoot!

 

[owebo]

Like I said, it's your Holy Grail. You can't man up and own that extremist rightwing ideologies are just as icky as extremist leftwing ideologies. In fact...they resemble each other far more than their moderate counterparts.

We know where you stand....sadly...

View attachment 104552

A more accurate representation of political ideologies and Fascism:The Political Compass
Why is Hitler slightly right? The Nazis were socialists, so they weren't fascists either.

Let's start with the second part first. Some respondents confuse Nazism, a political party platform, with fascism, which is a particular structure of government. Fascism legally sanctions the persecution of a particular group within the country — political, ethnic, religious — whatever. So within Nazism there are elements of fascism, as well as militarism, capitalism, socialism etc. To tar all socialists with the national socialist brush is as absurd as citing Bill Gates and Augusto Pinochet in the same breath as examples of free market capitalism.

Economically, Hitler was well to the right of Stalin. Post-war investigations led to a number of revelations about the cosy relationship between German corporations and the Reich. No such scandals subsequently surfaced in Russia, because Stalin had totally squashed the private sector. By contrast, once in power, the Nazis achieved rearmament through deficit spending. One of our respondents has correctly pointed out that they actively discouraged demand increases because they wanted infrastructure investment. Under the Reich, corporations were largely left to govern themselves, with the incentive that if they kept prices under control, they would be rewarded with government contracts. Hardly a socialist economic agenda!

But Nazi corporate ties extended well beyond Germany. It is an extraordinarily little known fact that in 1933 a cabal of Wall Street financiers and industrialists plotted an armed coup against President Roosevelt and the US Constitutional form of government. The coup planners — all of them deeply hostile to socialism — were enthusiastic supporters of German national socialism and Italian fascism. Details of the little publicised Congressional report on the failed coup may be read in 1000 Americans:The Real Rulers of the USA by George Seldes.

Fascism, according to the American Heritage Dictionary (1983) is A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. Italian philosopher Giovanni Gentile's entry in the Encyclopedia Italiana read: Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. No less an authority on fascism than Mussolini was so pleased with that definition that he later claimed credit for it.

Nevertheless, within certain US circles,the misconception remains that fascism is essentially left wing, and that the Nazis were socialists simply because of the "socialism" in their name. We wonder if respondents who insist on uncritically accepting the Nazis' cynical self-definition would be quite as eager to believe that the German Democratic Republic was democratic.



The Political Compass

A good breakdown of differences between Left and Right Wing:
Left Wing vs Right Wing - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

First rule of thumb when dealing with fascism: resist the propaganda......

First rule of partisanship: Leave your brain at the door.

Second rule of partisanship: Education is evil.

....They deny their fascism almost as much as they deny starting the kkk....

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Discussions like these always end up in exercises of protecting one's turf. The more a person invests their ego in their party affiliation nor sense of left/right ideological schism, the more fiercely they deny anything negative attached to such.

This thread was started by one such, whose understanding of the world is extremely limited. If you told this boy that liking dogs was a "conservative" trait, he would kick a few puppies to the curb just to make sure. In turn, this thread has attracted some who are resolutely conservative, who ALSO indulge in similar processes. It become a game of label first and then react against the label.

Yes, the early kkk was composed of democrats and yes, the current white racists are mostly republican, if anything. By the same token, racist blacks are more likely democrat. When people have a dog in the race, such matters often escape them, however.

All the racist whites I see here in DC are democrats....not sure where that was going....are there kkk meetings here in DC, no....

With left = big government, and

Right = small government

Then fascism is of the left as it is a big government system.

Since conservatives are small government, and liberals are big government, there is no label, it's just a choice of the people participating. Fascism cannot exist with small, limited, or no government, while conservatism can.....

It just is what it is, and the truth is shocking to many democrats and liberals....

 

[Divine Wind]

....They deny their fascism almost as much as they deny starting the kkk....

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Honestly, I don't think anyone cares if they belong to the democrat kkk.....

Probably because they're so rare these days. Nice dodge on answering the question. No worries since everyone already knows the answer.

Do you belong to or have you ever been a member any of the groups I listed? (KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists )

 

[owebo]

....They deny their fascism almost as much as they deny starting the kkk....

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Honestly, I don't think anyone cares if they belong to the democrat kkk.....

Probably because they're so rare these days. Nice dodge on answering the question. No worries since everyone already knows the answer.

Do you belong to or have you ever been a member any of the groups I listed? (KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists )

Everyone does know the answer....it's getting harder and hard for democrats to hide their kkk history from people....

 

[Divine Wind]

....Yes, the early kkk was composed of democrats and yes, the current white racists are mostly republican, if anything. By the same token, racist blacks are more likely democrat. When people have a dog in the race, such matters often escape them, however.

Agreed. Neither party has a monopoly on racism. They only differ on who are their racists and how they practice their racism.

 

[Divine Wind]

....They deny their fascism almost as much as they deny starting the kkk....

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Honestly, I don't think anyone cares if they belong to the democrat kkk.....

Probably because they're so rare these days. Nice dodge on answering the question. No worries since everyone already knows the answer.

Do you belong to or have you ever been a member any of the groups I listed? (KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists )

Everyone does know the answer....it's getting harder and hard for democrats to hide their kkk history from people....

It's pretty clear about the history. The present is pretty clear too. As Dogmaphobe just pointed out, each side has their racists even as they are finger-pointing to the other side.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Please review the following two links on fascism and what we have observed since the election of Donald Trump to the office of POTUS.


Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Donald Trump and the 14 signs of Fascism • /r/politics

Consider the promises made by Mr. Trump during the time before he received the nomination of the Republican Party, his rhetoric before his election after being nominated, and his rhetoric since being elected to POTUS?

He was very similar to the National Socialists in his speeches in that he spoke in plain, direct language.

Just because he has one of their good aspects, doesn't mean he's Hitler.

Another person who chooses to attack before understanding; this seems to be a pandemic among the Trump voters. Trump and Hitler are/were demagogues, in that respect they are alike. But I did not compare Trump to Hitler, Nazism or Mussolini, or any other leader who led ta nation and used some or all of the 14-points illuminated in the OP. If you were to really listen to Trump, you would hear that he used many of these 14-tools in his speeches:

What is Fascism?

Read this ^^^ link, and without bias consider what Trump has said and who he has appointed to be AG, Sect. of State and in other critical positions.

That alone does not define Trump. The Job itself will let us know if he has the right stuff to lead a diverse nation of over 300 million citizens for the next four years.

 

[Wry Catcher]

....They deny their fascism almost as much as they deny starting the kkk....

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Honestly, I don't think anyone cares if they belong to the democrat kkk.....

Probably because they're so rare these days. Nice dodge on answering the question. No worries since everyone already knows the answer.

Do you belong to or have you ever been a member any of the groups I listed? (KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists )

Everyone does know the answer....it's getting harder and hard for democrats to hide their kkk history from people....

It's pretty clear about the history. The present is pretty clear too. As Dogmaphobe just pointed out, each side has their racists even as they are finger-pointing to the other side.

This ^^^ is not quite true. The D's do not claim to have a big tent, their tent is big and diverse. The R's claim to have a big tent, yet it has little room for anyone who does not conform. There are no Democrats tossed under the bus and called DINO's; there are plenty of Republicans tossed under the bus and called RINO's.

 

[The Great Goose]

Please review the following two links on fascism and what we have observed since the election of Donald Trump to the office of POTUS.


Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Donald Trump and the 14 signs of Fascism • /r/politics

Consider the promises made by Mr. Trump during the time before he received the nomination of the Republican Party, his rhetoric before his election after being nominated, and his rhetoric since being elected to POTUS?

He was very similar to the National Socialists in his speeches in that he spoke in plain, direct language.

Just because he has one of their good aspects, doesn't mean he's Hitler.

Another person who chooses to attack before understanding; this seems to be a pandemic among the Trump voters. Trump and Hitler are/were demagogues, in that respect they are alike. But I did not compare Trump to Hitler, Nazism or Mussolini, or any other leader who led ta nation and used some or all of the 14-points illuminated in the OP. If you were to really listen to Trump, you would hear that he used many of these 14-tools in his speeches:

What is Fascism?

Read this ^^^ link, and without bias consider what Trump has said and who he has appointed to be AG, Sect. of State and in other critical positions.

That alone does not define Trump. The Job itself will let us know if he has the right stuff to lead a diverse nation of over 300 million citizens for the next four years.

I think you think the definition of fascism has a picture of Trump in the dictionary.

 

[owebo]

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Honestly, I don't think anyone cares if they belong to the democrat kkk.....

Probably because they're so rare these days. Nice dodge on answering the question. No worries since everyone already knows the answer.

Do you belong to or have you ever been a member any of the groups I listed? (KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists )

Everyone does know the answer....it's getting harder and hard for democrats to hide their kkk history from people....

It's pretty clear about the history. The present is pretty clear too. As Dogmaphobe just pointed out, each side has their racists even as they are finger-pointing to the other side.

This ^^^ is not quite true. The D's do not claim to have a big tent, their tent is big and diverse. The R's claim to have a big tent, yet it has little room for anyone who does not conform. There are no Democrats tossed under the bus and called DINO's; there are plenty of Republicans tossed under the bus and called RINO's.

The D's have a big plantation....run with a fascist iron fist....

Conservatives have no such setup....

 

[owebo]

....They deny their fascism almost as much as they deny starting the kkk....

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Honestly, I don't think anyone cares if they belong to the democrat kkk.....

Probably because they're so rare these days. Nice dodge on answering the question. No worries since everyone already knows the answer.

Do you belong to or have you ever been a member any of the groups I listed? (KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists )

Everyone does know the answer....it's getting harder and hard for democrats to hide their kkk history from people....

It's pretty clear about the history. The present is pretty clear too. As Dogmaphobe just pointed out, each side has their racists even as they are finger-pointing to the other side.

And one side even championed slavery, created the kkk, wrote/enforced Jim crow laws, defended segreggration, embraced eugenics, and thought separate but equal was logical....even.....it is a pretty clear fascist history....

 

[Wry Catcher]

Please review the following two links on fascism and what we have observed since the election of Donald Trump to the office of POTUS.


Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Donald Trump and the 14 signs of Fascism • /r/politics

Consider the promises made by Mr. Trump during the time before he received the nomination of the Republican Party, his rhetoric before his election after being nominated, and his rhetoric since being elected to POTUS?

He was very similar to the National Socialists in his speeches in that he spoke in plain, direct language.

Just because he has one of their good aspects, doesn't mean he's Hitler.

Another person who chooses to attack before understanding; this seems to be a pandemic among the Trump voters. Trump and Hitler are/were demagogues, in that respect they are alike. But I did not compare Trump to Hitler, Nazism or Mussolini, or any other leader who led ta nation and used some or all of the 14-points illuminated in the OP. If you were to really listen to Trump, you would hear that he used many of these 14-tools in his speeches:

What is Fascism?

Read this ^^^ link, and without bias consider what Trump has said and who he has appointed to be AG, Sect. of State and in other critical positions.

That alone does not define Trump. The Job itself will let us know if he has the right stuff to lead a diverse nation of over 300 million citizens for the next four years.

I think you think the definition of fascism has a picture of Trump in the dictionary.

You're correct. But, that does not mean I think he will be evil. I have a hunch - maybe wishful thinking - that Trump will grow into the job. I'm sure he's not ready to lead a diverse nation in an unsettled world. My hope is enough adults will have his ear, and he will listen.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I think you think the definition of fascism has a picture of Trump in the dictionary.

Dictionary?!


Are you certain he didn't find it here ? :

 

[bripat9643]

Please review the following two links on fascism and what we have observed since the election of Donald Trump to the office of POTUS.


Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Donald Trump and the 14 signs of Fascism • /r/politics

Consider the promises made by Mr. Trump during the time before he received the nomination of the Republican Party, his rhetoric before his election after being nominated, and his rhetoric since being elected to POTUS?

He was very similar to the National Socialists in his speeches in that he spoke in plain, direct language.

Just because he has one of their good aspects, doesn't mean he's Hitler.

Another person who chooses to attack before understanding; this seems to be a pandemic among the Trump voters. Trump and Hitler are/were demagogues, in that respect they are alike. But I did not compare Trump to Hitler, Nazism or Mussolini, or any other leader who led ta nation and used some or all of the 14-points illuminated in the OP. If you were to really listen to Trump, you would hear that he used many of these 14-tools in his speeches:

What is Fascism?

Read this ^^^ link, and without bias consider what Trump has said and who he has appointed to be AG, Sect. of State and in other critical positions.

That alone does not define Trump. The Job itself will let us know if he has the right stuff to lead a diverse nation of over 300 million citizens for the next four years.

Your 14 characteristics are bullshit. That has already been established. Any claims based on them are therefore also bullshit.

 

[bripat9643]

Please review the following two links on fascism and what we have observed since the election of Donald Trump to the office of POTUS.


Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Donald Trump and the 14 signs of Fascism • /r/politics

Consider the promises made by Mr. Trump during the time before he received the nomination of the Republican Party, his rhetoric before his election after being nominated, and his rhetoric since being elected to POTUS?

He was very similar to the National Socialists in his speeches in that he spoke in plain, direct language.

Just because he has one of their good aspects, doesn't mean he's Hitler.

Another person who chooses to attack before understanding; this seems to be a pandemic among the Trump voters. Trump and Hitler are/were demagogues, in that respect they are alike. But I did not compare Trump to Hitler, Nazism or Mussolini, or any other leader who led ta nation and used some or all of the 14-points illuminated in the OP. If you were to really listen to Trump, you would hear that he used many of these 14-tools in his speeches:

What is Fascism?

Read this ^^^ link, and without bias consider what Trump has said and who he has appointed to be AG, Sect. of State and in other critical positions.

That alone does not define Trump. The Job itself will let us know if he has the right stuff to lead a diverse nation of over 300 million citizens for the next four years.

I think you think the definition of fascism has a picture of Trump in the dictionary.

You're correct. But, that does not mean I think he will be evil. I have a hunch - maybe wishful thinking - that Trump will grow into the job. I'm sure he's not not ready to lead a diverse nation in an unsettled world. My hope is enough adults will have his ear, and he will listen.

Liberal Dictionary:
==================================================
Grow in office - turn into a liberal.

 

[bripat9643]

Please review the following two links on fascism and what we have observed since the election of Donald Trump to the office of POTUS.


Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Donald Trump and the 14 signs of Fascism • /r/politics

Consider the promises made by Mr. Trump during the time before he received the nomination of the Republican Party, his rhetoric before his election after being nominated, and his rhetoric since being elected to POTUS?

He was very similar to the National Socialists in his speeches in that he spoke in plain, direct language.

Just because he has one of their good aspects, doesn't mean he's Hitler.

Another person who chooses to attack before understanding; this seems to be a pandemic among the Trump voters. Trump and Hitler are/were demagogues, in that respect they are alike. But I did not compare Trump to Hitler, Nazism or Mussolini, or any other leader who led ta nation and used some or all of the 14-points illuminated in the OP. If you were to really listen to Trump, you would hear that he used many of these 14-tools in his speeches:

What is Fascism?

Read this ^^^ link, and without bias consider what Trump has said and who he has appointed to be AG, Sect. of State and in other critical positions.

That alone does not define Trump. The Job itself will let us know if he has the right stuff to lead a diverse nation of over 300 million citizens for the next four years.

I think you think the definition of fascism has a picture of Trump in the dictionary.

He/she thinks it's a synonym for "Republican."