Fascism

[Divine Wind]

You want to guess what Volkswagen translates to in English?

Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

My experience says "Never expect a political extremist to give an honest answer." They're extremists because they are irrational and irrational people can't be expected to act rationally.

 

[Correll]

DEMOCRATIC People's REPUBLIC of North Korea

German DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC

People's REPUBLIC of China

So, according to you, North Korea, East Germany and China are Democratic and Republics. Interesting, but disagreed. Yeah, same goes for the fucking Nazis.

Nope.

You want to guess what Volkswagen translates to in English?

Yep. Folks car. So you do believe China is a Republic and that North Korea is a Democratic Republic. Awesome. Figured you did.

The People's Car, a socialistic program designed by Hitler himself.


Volkswagen - Wikipedia


"In 1932, with many of the above projects still in development or early stages of production, Adolf Hitler got involved, ordering the production of a basic vehicle capable of transporting two adults and three children at 100 km/h (62 mph). He wanted his German citizens to have the same access to a car as the Americans.[8] The "People's Car" would be available to citizens of the Third Reich through a savings plan at 990 Reichsmark ($396 in 1930s U.S. dollars)—about the price of a small motorcycle (the average income being around 32RM a week).[9][10]

Despite heavy lobbying in favor of one of the existing projects, it soon became apparent that private industry could not turn out a car for only 990RM. Thus, Hitler chose to sponsor an all-new, state-owned factory using Ferdinand Porsche's design (with some of Hitler's design constraints, including an air-cooled engine so nothing could freeze). The intention was that ordinary Germans would buy the car by means of a savings scheme ("Fünf Mark die Woche musst du sparen, willst du im eigenen Wagen fahren" – "Five marks a week you must put aside, if you want to drive your own car"), which around 336,000 people eventually paid into. However, the entire project was financially unsound, and only the corruption and lack of accountability of the Nazi regime made it possible"

A nice socialist government program.

 

[owebo]

DEMOCRATIC People's REPUBLIC of North Korea

German DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC

People's REPUBLIC of China

So, according to you, North Korea, East Germany and China are Democratic and Republics. Interesting, but disagreed. Yeah, same goes for the fucking Nazis.

Nope.

You want to guess what Volkswagen translates to in English?

Yep. Folks car. So you do believe China is a Republic and that North Korea is a Democratic Republic. Awesome. Figured you did.

I call my turds gold bars....it's awesome....you can call them gold bars too.....

 

[owebo]

DEMOCRATIC People's REPUBLIC of North Korea

German DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC

People's REPUBLIC of China

So, according to you, North Korea, East Germany and China are Democratic and Republics. Interesting, but disagreed. Yeah, same goes for the fucking Nazis.

Nope.

You want to guess what Volkswagen translates to in English?

Yep. Folks car. So you do believe China is a Republic and that North Korea is a Democratic Republic. Awesome. Figured you did.

The People's Car, a socialistic program designed by Hitler himself.


Volkswagen - Wikipedia


"In 1932, with many of the above projects still in development or early stages of production, Adolf Hitler got involved, ordering the production of a basic vehicle capable of transporting two adults and three children at 100 km/h (62 mph). He wanted his German citizens to have the same access to a car as the Americans.[8] The "People's Car" would be available to citizens of the Third Reich through a savings plan at 990 Reichsmark ($396 in 1930s U.S. dollars)—about the price of a small motorcycle (the average income being around 32RM a week).[9][10]

Despite heavy lobbying in favor of one of the existing projects, it soon became apparent that private industry could not turn out a car for only 990RM. Thus, Hitler chose to sponsor an all-new, state-owned factory using Ferdinand Porsche's design (with some of Hitler's design constraints, including an air-cooled engine so nothing could freeze). The intention was that ordinary Germans would buy the car by means of a savings scheme ("Fünf Mark die Woche musst du sparen, willst du im eigenen Wagen fahren" – "Five marks a week you must put aside, if you want to drive your own car"), which around 336,000 people eventually paid into. However, the entire project was financially unsound, and only the corruption and lack of accountability of the Nazi regime made it possible"

A nice socialist government program.

Obamas gM Volt?

 

[westwall]

First rule of partisanship: Leave your brain at the door.

Second rule of partisanship: Education is evil.

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Discussions like these always end up in exercises of protecting one's turf. The more a person invests their ego in their party affiliation nor sense of left/right ideological schism, the more fiercely they deny anything negative attached to such.

This thread was started by one such, whose understanding of the world is extremely limited. If you told this boy that liking dogs was a "conservative" trait, he would kick a few puppies to the curb just to make sure. In turn, this thread has attracted some who are resolutely conservative, who ALSO indulge in similar processes. It become a game of label first and then react against the label.

Yes, the early kkk was composed of democrats and yes, the current white racists are mostly republican, if anything. By the same token, racist blacks are more likely democrat. When people have a dog in the race, such matters often escape them, however.

All the racist whites I see here in DC are democrats....not sure where that was going....are there kkk meetings here in DC, no....

With left = big government, and

Right = small government

Then fascism is of the left as it is a big government system.

Since conservatives are small government, and liberals are big government, there is no label, it's just a choice of the people participating. Fascism cannot exist with small, limited, or no government, while conservatism can.....

It just is what it is, and the truth is shocking to many democrats and liberals....

Rightwing is not always "small government". That's seems more of an American view.

Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[1][2][3] typically defending this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences [10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system."[14]

The meaning of right-wing "varies across societies, historical epochs, and political systems and ideologies."[29] According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics, in liberal democracies, the political Right opposes socialism and social democracy. Right-wing parties include conservatives, Christian democrats, classical liberals, nationalists and, on the far Right, racists and fascists.[30][page needed]

Roger Eatwell and Neal O'Sullivan divide the Right into five types: 'reactionary', 'moderate', 'radical', 'extreme', and 'new'.[31] Chip Berlet argues that each of these "styles of thought" are "responses to the left", including liberalism and socialism, which have arisen since the 1789 French Revolution.[32] The 'reactionary right' looks toward the past and is "aristocratic, religious and authoritarian".[32] The 'moderate right', typified by the writings of Edmund Burke, is tolerant of change, provided it is gradual, and accepts some aspects of liberalism, including the rule of law and capitalism, although it sees radical laissez-faire and individualism as harmful to society. Often the moderate right promotes nationalism and social welfare policies.[33] 'Radical right' is a term developed after World War II to describe groups and ideologies such as McCarthyism, the John Birch Society, Thatcherism, and the Republikaner Party. Eatwell stresses that this use has "major typological problems" and that the term "has also been applied to clearly democratic developments." [34] The radical right includes right-wing populism and various other subtypes.[35] Eatwell argues that the 'extreme right' has four traits: "1) anti-democracy; 2) nationalism; 3) racism; and 4) the strong state".[36] The 'New Right' consists of the liberal conservatives, who stress small government, free markets, and individual initiative.[37]

Other authors make a distinction between the centre-right and the far right.[38] Parties of the centre-right generally support liberal democracy, capitalism, the market economy (though they may accept government regulation to control monopolies), private property rights, and a limited welfare state (for example government provision of education and medical care). They support conservatism and economic liberalism, and oppose socialism and communism. The phrase far right, by contrast, is used to describe those who favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions.[39][40][41][42][43] Typical examples of leaders to whom the far right label is often applied are Francisco Franco in Spain and Augusto Pinochet in Chile.[44][45][46][page needed][47][48] The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue.[49] The phrase is also used to describe support for ethnic nationalism.

​

Left–right politics - Wikipedia

Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform, and internationalism," while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism."[15]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Left as including anarchists,[16][17] communists, socialists and social democrats,[18] left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.[19][20] Movements for racial equality are also usually linked with left-wing organizations.[21] Trade unionism is also associated with the left.[22]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Right as including christian democrats, classical liberals, conservatives, right-libertarians,[23] neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists,[24] fascists,[25] reactionaries, and traditionalists.

A number of significant political movements—including feminism and regionalism—do not fit precisely into the left-right spectrum.[26] Nationalism is often regarded as characteristic of the right, although nationalism is also sometimes present in the left.[27] Populism is regarded as having both left wing and right-wing manifestations (see left-wing populism, right-wing populist).[28] Green politics is often regarded as a movement of the left, but in some ways the green movement is difficult to definitively categorize as left or right.[2​

Wiki is not a good source for philosophical discussions. Too many hands in the pie as it were. And, they ignore fact in favor of Fabian Socialist dogma. Right wing is no government. Left wing is collective government. The Fabian Socialists have spent decades trying to convince people that fascism is "rightwing", and communism is "leftwing". The reality is they are both collective government systems which makes them BOTH leftwing.

Disagree - fascism was always considered rightwing, including by the fascists themselves who rejected leftwing ideology. It's only been recently that American right decided to redefine it as leftwing. Like the left - there isn't always a concensus on what it means to be rightwing, but here are some more examples:

Right-wing, rightist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

A general descriptive term for any of several otherwise rather different, conservative, reactionary or fascist political ideologies, the common denominator of which is their qualified or enthusiastic support for the main features of the current social and economic order, accepting all (or nearly all) of its inequalities of wealth, status and privilege (or even in some cases support for a return to an earlier, even more inegalitarian and hierarchical political-economic order). Right wing ideologies tend to emphasize the values of order, patriotism, social cohesion, and a personal sense of duty that makes the individual citizen who “knows his place” responsive to discipline from his political and social superiors. In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in Europe.​

Left-wing, leftist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

General descriptive terms for any of several otherwise quite varied political ideologies (socialism, communism, social democracy, welfare statism, contemporary American liberalism, some versions of anarchism, etc.) that join in denouncing the extent of economic and social inequality in the present order of society and advocate the adoption of vigorous public policies to reduce or eliminate these inequalities, usually through some combination of the following:

• Reduction or elimination of legal protections for private property rights
• Greater regulation (or complete expropriation) of private economic activity
• Stringent limitations on the right to inherit wealth
• Higher tax burdens on the rich and the middle-class, and/or the provision of more tax-supported government services and money payments to the poor.

In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in European usage. ​

Fascism: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

• A class of political ideologies (and historical political regimes) that takes its name from the movement led by Benito Mussolini that took power in Italy in 1922. Mussolini's ideas and practices directly and indirectly influenced political movements in Germany (especially the Nazi Party), Spain (Franco's Falange Party), France, Argentina, and many other European and non-European countries right up to the present day.

The different "fascist" movements and regimes have varied considerably in their specific goals and practices, but they are usually said to be characterized by several common features

• 1. Militant nationalism, proclaiming the racial and cultural superiority of the dominant ethnic group and asserting that group's inherent right to a special dominant position over other peoples in both the domestic and the international order
  2. The adulation of a single charismatic national leader said to possess near superhuman abilities and to be the truest representation of the ideals of the national culture, whose will should therefore literally be law
  3. Emphasis on the absolute necessity of complete national unity, which is said to require a very powerful and disciplined state organization (especially an extensive secret police and censorship apparatus), unlimited by constitutional restrictions or legal requirements and under the absolute domination of the leader and his political movement or party
  4. Militant anti-Communism coupled with the belief in an extreme and imminent threat to national security from powerful and determined Communist forces both inside and outside the country
  5. Contempt for democratic socialism, democratic capitalism, liberalism, and all forms of individualism as weak, degenerate, divisive and ineffective ideologies leading only to mediocrity or national suicide
  6. Glorification of physical strength, fanatical personal loyalty to the leader, and general combat-readiness as the ultimate personal virtues
  7. A sophisticated apparatus for systematically propagandizing the population into accepting these values and ideas through skilled manipulation of the mass media, which are totally monopolized by the regime once the movement comes to power
  8. A propensity toward pursuing a militaristic and aggressive foreign policy
  9. Strict regulation and control of the economy by the regime through some form of corporatist economic planning in which the legal forms of private ownership of industry are nominally preserved but in which both workers and capitalists are obliged to submit their plans and objectives to the most detailed state regulation and extensive wage and price controls, which are designed to insure the priority of the political leadership's objectives over the private economic interests of the citizenry. Therefore under fascism most of the more important markets are allowed to operate only in a non-competitive, cartelized, and governmentally "rigged" fashion.

​

Government is either collectivist, or individualist. Those are the ONLY two options for government types. Thus, ANY form of collective government is leftwing. Anarchy is the ultimate form of rightwing governmental system. That is merely a fact. The fascists and the socialists are basically the same. Go back and don't pay attention to what they say, pay attention to how they view their citizens. How many rights do the citizens have? What happens to them if they piss the government off etc.

When you do that you come to the conclusion that Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union were the same house, it was merely shades of color that separated them.

 

[Coyote]

Discussions like these always end up in exercises of protecting one's turf. The more a person invests their ego in their party affiliation nor sense of left/right ideological schism, the more fiercely they deny anything negative attached to such.

This thread was started by one such, whose understanding of the world is extremely limited. If you told this boy that liking dogs was a "conservative" trait, he would kick a few puppies to the curb just to make sure. In turn, this thread has attracted some who are resolutely conservative, who ALSO indulge in similar processes. It become a game of label first and then react against the label.

Yes, the early kkk was composed of democrats and yes, the current white racists are mostly republican, if anything. By the same token, racist blacks are more likely democrat. When people have a dog in the race, such matters often escape them, however.

All the racist whites I see here in DC are democrats....not sure where that was going....are there kkk meetings here in DC, no....

With left = big government, and

Right = small government

Then fascism is of the left as it is a big government system.

Since conservatives are small government, and liberals are big government, there is no label, it's just a choice of the people participating. Fascism cannot exist with small, limited, or no government, while conservatism can.....

It just is what it is, and the truth is shocking to many democrats and liberals....

Rightwing is not always "small government". That's seems more of an American view.

Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[1][2][3] typically defending this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences [10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system."[14]

The meaning of right-wing "varies across societies, historical epochs, and political systems and ideologies."[29] According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics, in liberal democracies, the political Right opposes socialism and social democracy. Right-wing parties include conservatives, Christian democrats, classical liberals, nationalists and, on the far Right, racists and fascists.[30][page needed]

Roger Eatwell and Neal O'Sullivan divide the Right into five types: 'reactionary', 'moderate', 'radical', 'extreme', and 'new'.[31] Chip Berlet argues that each of these "styles of thought" are "responses to the left", including liberalism and socialism, which have arisen since the 1789 French Revolution.[32] The 'reactionary right' looks toward the past and is "aristocratic, religious and authoritarian".[32] The 'moderate right', typified by the writings of Edmund Burke, is tolerant of change, provided it is gradual, and accepts some aspects of liberalism, including the rule of law and capitalism, although it sees radical laissez-faire and individualism as harmful to society. Often the moderate right promotes nationalism and social welfare policies.[33] 'Radical right' is a term developed after World War II to describe groups and ideologies such as McCarthyism, the John Birch Society, Thatcherism, and the Republikaner Party. Eatwell stresses that this use has "major typological problems" and that the term "has also been applied to clearly democratic developments." [34] The radical right includes right-wing populism and various other subtypes.[35] Eatwell argues that the 'extreme right' has four traits: "1) anti-democracy; 2) nationalism; 3) racism; and 4) the strong state".[36] The 'New Right' consists of the liberal conservatives, who stress small government, free markets, and individual initiative.[37]

Other authors make a distinction between the centre-right and the far right.[38] Parties of the centre-right generally support liberal democracy, capitalism, the market economy (though they may accept government regulation to control monopolies), private property rights, and a limited welfare state (for example government provision of education and medical care). They support conservatism and economic liberalism, and oppose socialism and communism. The phrase far right, by contrast, is used to describe those who favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions.[39][40][41][42][43] Typical examples of leaders to whom the far right label is often applied are Francisco Franco in Spain and Augusto Pinochet in Chile.[44][45][46][page needed][47][48] The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue.[49] The phrase is also used to describe support for ethnic nationalism.

​

Left–right politics - Wikipedia

Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform, and internationalism," while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism."[15]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Left as including anarchists,[16][17] communists, socialists and social democrats,[18] left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.[19][20] Movements for racial equality are also usually linked with left-wing organizations.[21] Trade unionism is also associated with the left.[22]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Right as including christian democrats, classical liberals, conservatives, right-libertarians,[23] neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists,[24] fascists,[25] reactionaries, and traditionalists.

A number of significant political movements—including feminism and regionalism—do not fit precisely into the left-right spectrum.[26] Nationalism is often regarded as characteristic of the right, although nationalism is also sometimes present in the left.[27] Populism is regarded as having both left wing and right-wing manifestations (see left-wing populism, right-wing populist).[28] Green politics is often regarded as a movement of the left, but in some ways the green movement is difficult to definitively categorize as left or right.[2​

Wiki is not a good source for philosophical discussions. Too many hands in the pie as it were. And, they ignore fact in favor of Fabian Socialist dogma. Right wing is no government. Left wing is collective government. The Fabian Socialists have spent decades trying to convince people that fascism is "rightwing", and communism is "leftwing". The reality is they are both collective government systems which makes them BOTH leftwing.

Disagree - fascism was always considered rightwing, including by the fascists themselves who rejected leftwing ideology. It's only been recently that American right decided to redefine it as leftwing. Like the left - there isn't always a concensus on what it means to be rightwing, but here are some more examples:

Right-wing, rightist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

A general descriptive term for any of several otherwise rather different, conservative, reactionary or fascist political ideologies, the common denominator of which is their qualified or enthusiastic support for the main features of the current social and economic order, accepting all (or nearly all) of its inequalities of wealth, status and privilege (or even in some cases support for a return to an earlier, even more inegalitarian and hierarchical political-economic order). Right wing ideologies tend to emphasize the values of order, patriotism, social cohesion, and a personal sense of duty that makes the individual citizen who “knows his place” responsive to discipline from his political and social superiors. In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in Europe.​

Left-wing, leftist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

General descriptive terms for any of several otherwise quite varied political ideologies (socialism, communism, social democracy, welfare statism, contemporary American liberalism, some versions of anarchism, etc.) that join in denouncing the extent of economic and social inequality in the present order of society and advocate the adoption of vigorous public policies to reduce or eliminate these inequalities, usually through some combination of the following:

• Reduction or elimination of legal protections for private property rights
• Greater regulation (or complete expropriation) of private economic activity
• Stringent limitations on the right to inherit wealth
• Higher tax burdens on the rich and the middle-class, and/or the provision of more tax-supported government services and money payments to the poor.

In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in European usage. ​

Fascism: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

• A class of political ideologies (and historical political regimes) that takes its name from the movement led by Benito Mussolini that took power in Italy in 1922. Mussolini's ideas and practices directly and indirectly influenced political movements in Germany (especially the Nazi Party), Spain (Franco's Falange Party), France, Argentina, and many other European and non-European countries right up to the present day.

The different "fascist" movements and regimes have varied considerably in their specific goals and practices, but they are usually said to be characterized by several common features

• 1. Militant nationalism, proclaiming the racial and cultural superiority of the dominant ethnic group and asserting that group's inherent right to a special dominant position over other peoples in both the domestic and the international order
  2. The adulation of a single charismatic national leader said to possess near superhuman abilities and to be the truest representation of the ideals of the national culture, whose will should therefore literally be law
  3. Emphasis on the absolute necessity of complete national unity, which is said to require a very powerful and disciplined state organization (especially an extensive secret police and censorship apparatus), unlimited by constitutional restrictions or legal requirements and under the absolute domination of the leader and his political movement or party
  4. Militant anti-Communism coupled with the belief in an extreme and imminent threat to national security from powerful and determined Communist forces both inside and outside the country
  5. Contempt for democratic socialism, democratic capitalism, liberalism, and all forms of individualism as weak, degenerate, divisive and ineffective ideologies leading only to mediocrity or national suicide
  6. Glorification of physical strength, fanatical personal loyalty to the leader, and general combat-readiness as the ultimate personal virtues
  7. A sophisticated apparatus for systematically propagandizing the population into accepting these values and ideas through skilled manipulation of the mass media, which are totally monopolized by the regime once the movement comes to power
  8. A propensity toward pursuing a militaristic and aggressive foreign policy
  9. Strict regulation and control of the economy by the regime through some form of corporatist economic planning in which the legal forms of private ownership of industry are nominally preserved but in which both workers and capitalists are obliged to submit their plans and objectives to the most detailed state regulation and extensive wage and price controls, which are designed to insure the priority of the political leadership's objectives over the private economic interests of the citizenry. Therefore under fascism most of the more important markets are allowed to operate only in a non-competitive, cartelized, and governmentally "rigged" fashion.

​

Government is either collectivist, or individualist. Those are the ONLY two options for government types. Thus, ANY form of collective government is leftwing. Anarchy is the ultimate form of rightwing governmental system. That is merely a fact. The fascists and the socialists are basically the same. Go back and don't pay attention to what they say, pay attention to how they view their citizens. How many rights do the citizens have? What happens to them if they piss the government off etc.

When you do that you come to the conclusion that Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union were the same house, it was merely shades of color that separated them.

Yes - but it's not "collectivist" vs. "individualist" - it's authoritarian vs. non-authoritarian.

Right and Left resemble each other when the move to authoritarian extremes.

I think better ways of looking at it would be this:

But...my personal favorite is this

 

[regent]

Americans knew by 1933 that Hitler's National Socialist party was not socialist. Time magazine in that year wrote a number of insights into the party saying: "Essentially Nationalists and patrioteers, the Nazi insert "Socialist" into their party name simply as a lure to discontented workers."

 

[bripat9643]

First rule of partisanship: Leave your brain at the door.

Second rule of partisanship: Education is evil.

Correct about the KKK being started by Democrats. What party do most KKK, Sovereign Citizen, Christian Identity and other White Supremacists belong to today? Democrats or Republicans?

Discussions like these always end up in exercises of protecting one's turf. The more a person invests their ego in their party affiliation nor sense of left/right ideological schism, the more fiercely they deny anything negative attached to such.

This thread was started by one such, whose understanding of the world is extremely limited. If you told this boy that liking dogs was a "conservative" trait, he would kick a few puppies to the curb just to make sure. In turn, this thread has attracted some who are resolutely conservative, who ALSO indulge in similar processes. It become a game of label first and then react against the label.

Yes, the early kkk was composed of democrats and yes, the current white racists are mostly republican, if anything. By the same token, racist blacks are more likely democrat. When people have a dog in the race, such matters often escape them, however.

All the racist whites I see here in DC are democrats....not sure where that was going....are there kkk meetings here in DC, no....

With left = big government, and

Right = small government

Then fascism is of the left as it is a big government system.

Since conservatives are small government, and liberals are big government, there is no label, it's just a choice of the people participating. Fascism cannot exist with small, limited, or no government, while conservatism can.....

It just is what it is, and the truth is shocking to many democrats and liberals....

Rightwing is not always "small government". That's seems more of an American view.

Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[1][2][3] typically defending this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences [10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system."[14]

The meaning of right-wing "varies across societies, historical epochs, and political systems and ideologies."[29] According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics, in liberal democracies, the political Right opposes socialism and social democracy. Right-wing parties include conservatives, Christian democrats, classical liberals, nationalists and, on the far Right, racists and fascists.[30][page needed]

Roger Eatwell and Neal O'Sullivan divide the Right into five types: 'reactionary', 'moderate', 'radical', 'extreme', and 'new'.[31] Chip Berlet argues that each of these "styles of thought" are "responses to the left", including liberalism and socialism, which have arisen since the 1789 French Revolution.[32] The 'reactionary right' looks toward the past and is "aristocratic, religious and authoritarian".[32] The 'moderate right', typified by the writings of Edmund Burke, is tolerant of change, provided it is gradual, and accepts some aspects of liberalism, including the rule of law and capitalism, although it sees radical laissez-faire and individualism as harmful to society. Often the moderate right promotes nationalism and social welfare policies.[33] 'Radical right' is a term developed after World War II to describe groups and ideologies such as McCarthyism, the John Birch Society, Thatcherism, and the Republikaner Party. Eatwell stresses that this use has "major typological problems" and that the term "has also been applied to clearly democratic developments." [34] The radical right includes right-wing populism and various other subtypes.[35] Eatwell argues that the 'extreme right' has four traits: "1) anti-democracy; 2) nationalism; 3) racism; and 4) the strong state".[36] The 'New Right' consists of the liberal conservatives, who stress small government, free markets, and individual initiative.[37]

Other authors make a distinction between the centre-right and the far right.[38] Parties of the centre-right generally support liberal democracy, capitalism, the market economy (though they may accept government regulation to control monopolies), private property rights, and a limited welfare state (for example government provision of education and medical care). They support conservatism and economic liberalism, and oppose socialism and communism. The phrase far right, by contrast, is used to describe those who favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions.[39][40][41][42][43] Typical examples of leaders to whom the far right label is often applied are Francisco Franco in Spain and Augusto Pinochet in Chile.[44][45][46][page needed][47][48] The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue.[49] The phrase is also used to describe support for ethnic nationalism.

​

Left–right politics - Wikipedia

Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform, and internationalism," while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism."[15]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Left as including anarchists,[16][17] communists, socialists and social democrats,[18] left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.[19][20] Movements for racial equality are also usually linked with left-wing organizations.[21] Trade unionism is also associated with the left.[22]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Right as including christian democrats, classical liberals, conservatives, right-libertarians,[23] neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists,[24] fascists,[25] reactionaries, and traditionalists.

A number of significant political movements—including feminism and regionalism—do not fit precisely into the left-right spectrum.[26] Nationalism is often regarded as characteristic of the right, although nationalism is also sometimes present in the left.[27] Populism is regarded as having both left wing and right-wing manifestations (see left-wing populism, right-wing populist).[28] Green politics is often regarded as a movement of the left, but in some ways the green movement is difficult to definitively categorize as left or right.[2​

Wiki is not a good source for philosophical discussions. Too many hands in the pie as it were. And, they ignore fact in favor of Fabian Socialist dogma. Right wing is no government. Left wing is collective government. The Fabian Socialists have spent decades trying to convince people that fascism is "rightwing", and communism is "leftwing". The reality is they are both collective government systems which makes them BOTH leftwing.

Disagree - fascism was always considered rightwing, including by the fascists themselves who rejected leftwing ideology. It's only been recently that American right decided to redefine it as leftwing. Like the left - there isn't always a concensus on what it means to be rightwing, but here are some more examples:

Right-wing, rightist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

A general descriptive term for any of several otherwise rather different, conservative, reactionary or fascist political ideologies, the common denominator of which is their qualified or enthusiastic support for the main features of the current social and economic order, accepting all (or nearly all) of its inequalities of wealth, status and privilege (or even in some cases support for a return to an earlier, even more inegalitarian and hierarchical political-economic order). Right wing ideologies tend to emphasize the values of order, patriotism, social cohesion, and a personal sense of duty that makes the individual citizen who “knows his place” responsive to discipline from his political and social superiors. In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in Europe.​

Left-wing, leftist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

General descriptive terms for any of several otherwise quite varied political ideologies (socialism, communism, social democracy, welfare statism, contemporary American liberalism, some versions of anarchism, etc.) that join in denouncing the extent of economic and social inequality in the present order of society and advocate the adoption of vigorous public policies to reduce or eliminate these inequalities, usually through some combination of the following:

• Reduction or elimination of legal protections for private property rights
• Greater regulation (or complete expropriation) of private economic activity
• Stringent limitations on the right to inherit wealth
• Higher tax burdens on the rich and the middle-class, and/or the provision of more tax-supported government services and money payments to the poor.

In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in European usage. ​

Fascism: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

• A class of political ideologies (and historical political regimes) that takes its name from the movement led by Benito Mussolini that took power in Italy in 1922. Mussolini's ideas and practices directly and indirectly influenced political movements in Germany (especially the Nazi Party), Spain (Franco's Falange Party), France, Argentina, and many other European and non-European countries right up to the present day.

The different "fascist" movements and regimes have varied considerably in their specific goals and practices, but they are usually said to be characterized by several common features

• 1. Militant nationalism, proclaiming the racial and cultural superiority of the dominant ethnic group and asserting that group's inherent right to a special dominant position over other peoples in both the domestic and the international order
  2. The adulation of a single charismatic national leader said to possess near superhuman abilities and to be the truest representation of the ideals of the national culture, whose will should therefore literally be law
  3. Emphasis on the absolute necessity of complete national unity, which is said to require a very powerful and disciplined state organization (especially an extensive secret police and censorship apparatus), unlimited by constitutional restrictions or legal requirements and under the absolute domination of the leader and his political movement or party
  4. Militant anti-Communism coupled with the belief in an extreme and imminent threat to national security from powerful and determined Communist forces both inside and outside the country
  5. Contempt for democratic socialism, democratic capitalism, liberalism, and all forms of individualism as weak, degenerate, divisive and ineffective ideologies leading only to mediocrity or national suicide
  6. Glorification of physical strength, fanatical personal loyalty to the leader, and general combat-readiness as the ultimate personal virtues
  7. A sophisticated apparatus for systematically propagandizing the population into accepting these values and ideas through skilled manipulation of the mass media, which are totally monopolized by the regime once the movement comes to power
  8. A propensity toward pursuing a militaristic and aggressive foreign policy
  9. Strict regulation and control of the economy by the regime through some form of corporatist economic planning in which the legal forms of private ownership of industry are nominally preserved but in which both workers and capitalists are obliged to submit their plans and objectives to the most detailed state regulation and extensive wage and price controls, which are designed to insure the priority of the political leadership's objectives over the private economic interests of the citizenry. Therefore under fascism most of the more important markets are allowed to operate only in a non-competitive, cartelized, and governmentally "rigged" fashion.

​

He's the editor of the propaganda organ you quote previously "The New Statesman." He a leftwing demagogue, just like all your other sources.

Note: even he acknowledges that fascism is a form of socialism in point #9

Strict regulation and control of the economy by the regime through some form of corporatist economic planning in which the legal forms of private ownership of industry are nominally preserved but in which both workers and capitalists are obliged to submit their plans and objectives to the most detailed state regulation and extensive wage and price controls, which are designed to insure the priority of the political leadership's objectives over the private economic interests of the citizenry. Therefore under fascism most of the more important markets are allowed to operate only in a non-competitive, cartelized, and governmentally "rigged" fashion.
​

That describes socialism where all property rights are held by the government.

 

[bripat9643]

All the racist whites I see here in DC are democrats....not sure where that was going....are there kkk meetings here in DC, no....

With left = big government, and

Right = small government

Then fascism is of the left as it is a big government system.

Since conservatives are small government, and liberals are big government, there is no label, it's just a choice of the people participating. Fascism cannot exist with small, limited, or no government, while conservatism can.....

It just is what it is, and the truth is shocking to many democrats and liberals....

Rightwing is not always "small government". That's seems more of an American view.

Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[1][2][3] typically defending this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences [10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system."[14]

The meaning of right-wing "varies across societies, historical epochs, and political systems and ideologies."[29] According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics, in liberal democracies, the political Right opposes socialism and social democracy. Right-wing parties include conservatives, Christian democrats, classical liberals, nationalists and, on the far Right, racists and fascists.[30][page needed]

Roger Eatwell and Neal O'Sullivan divide the Right into five types: 'reactionary', 'moderate', 'radical', 'extreme', and 'new'.[31] Chip Berlet argues that each of these "styles of thought" are "responses to the left", including liberalism and socialism, which have arisen since the 1789 French Revolution.[32] The 'reactionary right' looks toward the past and is "aristocratic, religious and authoritarian".[32] The 'moderate right', typified by the writings of Edmund Burke, is tolerant of change, provided it is gradual, and accepts some aspects of liberalism, including the rule of law and capitalism, although it sees radical laissez-faire and individualism as harmful to society. Often the moderate right promotes nationalism and social welfare policies.[33] 'Radical right' is a term developed after World War II to describe groups and ideologies such as McCarthyism, the John Birch Society, Thatcherism, and the Republikaner Party. Eatwell stresses that this use has "major typological problems" and that the term "has also been applied to clearly democratic developments." [34] The radical right includes right-wing populism and various other subtypes.[35] Eatwell argues that the 'extreme right' has four traits: "1) anti-democracy; 2) nationalism; 3) racism; and 4) the strong state".[36] The 'New Right' consists of the liberal conservatives, who stress small government, free markets, and individual initiative.[37]

Other authors make a distinction between the centre-right and the far right.[38] Parties of the centre-right generally support liberal democracy, capitalism, the market economy (though they may accept government regulation to control monopolies), private property rights, and a limited welfare state (for example government provision of education and medical care). They support conservatism and economic liberalism, and oppose socialism and communism. The phrase far right, by contrast, is used to describe those who favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions.[39][40][41][42][43] Typical examples of leaders to whom the far right label is often applied are Francisco Franco in Spain and Augusto Pinochet in Chile.[44][45][46][page needed][47][48] The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue.[49] The phrase is also used to describe support for ethnic nationalism.

​

Left–right politics - Wikipedia

Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform, and internationalism," while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism."[15]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Left as including anarchists,[16][17] communists, socialists and social democrats,[18] left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.[19][20] Movements for racial equality are also usually linked with left-wing organizations.[21] Trade unionism is also associated with the left.[22]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Right as including christian democrats, classical liberals, conservatives, right-libertarians,[23] neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists,[24] fascists,[25] reactionaries, and traditionalists.

A number of significant political movements—including feminism and regionalism—do not fit precisely into the left-right spectrum.[26] Nationalism is often regarded as characteristic of the right, although nationalism is also sometimes present in the left.[27] Populism is regarded as having both left wing and right-wing manifestations (see left-wing populism, right-wing populist).[28] Green politics is often regarded as a movement of the left, but in some ways the green movement is difficult to definitively categorize as left or right.[2​

Wiki is not a good source for philosophical discussions. Too many hands in the pie as it were. And, they ignore fact in favor of Fabian Socialist dogma. Right wing is no government. Left wing is collective government. The Fabian Socialists have spent decades trying to convince people that fascism is "rightwing", and communism is "leftwing". The reality is they are both collective government systems which makes them BOTH leftwing.

Disagree - fascism was always considered rightwing, including by the fascists themselves who rejected leftwing ideology. It's only been recently that American right decided to redefine it as leftwing. Like the left - there isn't always a concensus on what it means to be rightwing, but here are some more examples:

Right-wing, rightist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

A general descriptive term for any of several otherwise rather different, conservative, reactionary or fascist political ideologies, the common denominator of which is their qualified or enthusiastic support for the main features of the current social and economic order, accepting all (or nearly all) of its inequalities of wealth, status and privilege (or even in some cases support for a return to an earlier, even more inegalitarian and hierarchical political-economic order). Right wing ideologies tend to emphasize the values of order, patriotism, social cohesion, and a personal sense of duty that makes the individual citizen who “knows his place” responsive to discipline from his political and social superiors. In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in Europe.​

Left-wing, leftist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

General descriptive terms for any of several otherwise quite varied political ideologies (socialism, communism, social democracy, welfare statism, contemporary American liberalism, some versions of anarchism, etc.) that join in denouncing the extent of economic and social inequality in the present order of society and advocate the adoption of vigorous public policies to reduce or eliminate these inequalities, usually through some combination of the following:

• Reduction or elimination of legal protections for private property rights
• Greater regulation (or complete expropriation) of private economic activity
• Stringent limitations on the right to inherit wealth
• Higher tax burdens on the rich and the middle-class, and/or the provision of more tax-supported government services and money payments to the poor.

In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in European usage. ​

Fascism: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

• A class of political ideologies (and historical political regimes) that takes its name from the movement led by Benito Mussolini that took power in Italy in 1922. Mussolini's ideas and practices directly and indirectly influenced political movements in Germany (especially the Nazi Party), Spain (Franco's Falange Party), France, Argentina, and many other European and non-European countries right up to the present day.

The different "fascist" movements and regimes have varied considerably in their specific goals and practices, but they are usually said to be characterized by several common features

• 1. Militant nationalism, proclaiming the racial and cultural superiority of the dominant ethnic group and asserting that group's inherent right to a special dominant position over other peoples in both the domestic and the international order
  2. The adulation of a single charismatic national leader said to possess near superhuman abilities and to be the truest representation of the ideals of the national culture, whose will should therefore literally be law
  3. Emphasis on the absolute necessity of complete national unity, which is said to require a very powerful and disciplined state organization (especially an extensive secret police and censorship apparatus), unlimited by constitutional restrictions or legal requirements and under the absolute domination of the leader and his political movement or party
  4. Militant anti-Communism coupled with the belief in an extreme and imminent threat to national security from powerful and determined Communist forces both inside and outside the country
  5. Contempt for democratic socialism, democratic capitalism, liberalism, and all forms of individualism as weak, degenerate, divisive and ineffective ideologies leading only to mediocrity or national suicide
  6. Glorification of physical strength, fanatical personal loyalty to the leader, and general combat-readiness as the ultimate personal virtues
  7. A sophisticated apparatus for systematically propagandizing the population into accepting these values and ideas through skilled manipulation of the mass media, which are totally monopolized by the regime once the movement comes to power
  8. A propensity toward pursuing a militaristic and aggressive foreign policy
  9. Strict regulation and control of the economy by the regime through some form of corporatist economic planning in which the legal forms of private ownership of industry are nominally preserved but in which both workers and capitalists are obliged to submit their plans and objectives to the most detailed state regulation and extensive wage and price controls, which are designed to insure the priority of the political leadership's objectives over the private economic interests of the citizenry. Therefore under fascism most of the more important markets are allowed to operate only in a non-competitive, cartelized, and governmentally "rigged" fashion.

​

Government is either collectivist, or individualist. Those are the ONLY two options for government types. Thus, ANY form of collective government is leftwing. Anarchy is the ultimate form of rightwing governmental system. That is merely a fact. The fascists and the socialists are basically the same. Go back and don't pay attention to what they say, pay attention to how they view their citizens. How many rights do the citizens have? What happens to them if they piss the government off etc.

When you do that you come to the conclusion that Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union were the same house, it was merely shades of color that separated them.

Yes - but it's not "collectivist" vs. "individualist" - it's authoritarian vs. non-authoritarian.

Right and Left resemble each other when the move to authoritarian extremes.

I think better ways of looking at it would be this:

But...my personal favorite is this

Both your charts are bullshit. For example, take the bottom one. On the authoritarian/libertarian axis what is being measured? That's as meaningless as having a chocolate cake/calculus axis. It's meaningless.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Definitions of fascism - Wikipedia

Umberto Eco
In his 1995 essay "Eternal Fascism", Umberto Eco lists fourteen general properties of fascist ideology.[11] He argues that it is not possible to organise these into a coherent system, but that "it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it". He uses the term "Ur-fascism" as a generic description of different historical forms of fascism. The fourteen properties are as follows:

• "The Cult of Tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by Tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.
• "The Rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.
• "The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
• "Disagreement Is Treason" – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.
• "Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.
• "Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.
• "Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society (such as the German elite's 'fear' of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings; see also anti-Semitism). Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.
• Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.
• "Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to NOT build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.
• "Contempt for the Weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate Leader who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.
• "Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death."
• "Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality."
• "Selective Populism" – The People, conceived monolithically, have a Common Will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the Leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the Voice of the People."
• "Newspeak" – Fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.

Sound familiar....?

Opening in theatres near you January 20th, 2017.

Every one of those "characteristics" fits progressive, communist, socialist and religious theocracies as well. That's the problem with the list, it is so non specific, and general, as to be useless other than showing that pretty much all collectivist government systems suck in some manner or other.

Another dishonest post, using the half-truth, a lie by omission. These characteristics do not define the liberal or progressive; and each of the other noted ideologies can but are not always examples of an Authoritarian Regime, which is what fascism (small f) is too. Do try to think and consider with whatever amount of sagacious ability you might have on each of the 14 points, and compare them with the words of P-e Trump.

"Authoritarian" does not equate to "fascist." Authoritarian regimes have been around since civilization began. Fascism is supposedly an economic system. Nothing in the 14 points is related to economics. It's pure bullshit.

Fascism is not an "economic system". Capitalism is. Socialism is to large degree as is communism.

Actually fascism IS an economic system. As are socialism, and communism. They are three systems who's economic systems are wholly tied to the governmental system as well. They are completely integrated. The progressives here in trying to paint fascism as merely a governmental type by pointing out that the corporations were allowed to remain independent completely ignore the bureaucracy that the Nazi's and Italians implemented to CONTROL what those corporations could produce.

Nothing was produced in Nazi Germany, or fascist Italy without prior government consent. Consent that was predicated on the perceived needs of the government. And, everything about that production was controlled by the government. How much the workers had to be paid, which workers they could use, where the resources had to accessed, how much those resources were to cost, etc. etc. etc.

The only difference between communist russia, and fascist germany was the germans allowed private citizens to own property. In Soviet Russia that wasn't allowed.

Poli Sci 102 (comparative Governments) provides detailed descriptions and examples of many differences between Germany under Hitler and Russian under Stalin as well as Authoritarian regimes, Monarchies, direct and representative democracies, social democracies and totalitarian/despotic governments.

 

[bripat9643]

Every one of those "characteristics" fits progressive, communist, socialist and religious theocracies as well. That's the problem with the list, it is so non specific, and general, as to be useless other than showing that pretty much all collectivist government systems suck in some manner or other.

Another dishonest post, using the half-truth, a lie by omission. These characteristics do not define the liberal or progressive; and each of the other noted ideologies can but are not always examples of an Authoritarian Regime, which is what fascism (small f) is too. Do try to think and consider with whatever amount of sagacious ability you might have on each of the 14 points, and compare them with the words of P-e Trump.

"Authoritarian" does not equate to "fascist." Authoritarian regimes have been around since civilization began. Fascism is supposedly an economic system. Nothing in the 14 points is related to economics. It's pure bullshit.

Fascism is not an "economic system". Capitalism is. Socialism is to large degree as is communism.

Actually fascism IS an economic system. As are socialism, and communism. They are three systems who's economic systems are wholly tied to the governmental system as well. They are completely integrated. The progressives here in trying to paint fascism as merely a governmental type by pointing out that the corporations were allowed to remain independent completely ignore the bureaucracy that the Nazi's and Italians implemented to CONTROL what those corporations could produce.

Nothing was produced in Nazi Germany, or fascist Italy without prior government consent. Consent that was predicated on the perceived needs of the government. And, everything about that production was controlled by the government. How much the workers had to be paid, which workers they could use, where the resources had to accessed, how much those resources were to cost, etc. etc. etc.

The only difference between communist russia, and fascist germany was the germans allowed private citizens to own property. In Soviet Russia that wasn't allowed.

Poli Sci 102 (comparative Governments) provides detailed descriptions and examples of many differences between Germany under Hitler and Russian under Stalin as well as Authoritarian regimes, Monarchies, direct and representative democracies, social democracies and totalitarian/despotic governments.

So-called "political science" isn't science. It's propaganda. How much you swallow of what they teach only proves how gullible you are.

 

[Divine Wind]

So-called "political science" isn't science. It's propaganda. How much you swallow of what they teach only proves how gullible you are.

LOL. No doubt you believe education is for suckers and ignorance is bliss.

 

[bripat9643]

So-called "political science" isn't science. It's propaganda. How much you swallow of what they teach only proves how gullible you are.

LOL. No doubt you believe education is for suckers and ignorance is bliss.

View attachment 104807

Education isn't what they dispense in public universities, especially in the social "sciences" and liberal arts. Educated people understand this irrefutable fact. Gullible fools like you think you're "educated."

 

[westwall]

Every one of those "characteristics" fits progressive, communist, socialist and religious theocracies as well. That's the problem with the list, it is so non specific, and general, as to be useless other than showing that pretty much all collectivist government systems suck in some manner or other.

Another dishonest post, using the half-truth, a lie by omission. These characteristics do not define the liberal or progressive; and each of the other noted ideologies can but are not always examples of an Authoritarian Regime, which is what fascism (small f) is too. Do try to think and consider with whatever amount of sagacious ability you might have on each of the 14 points, and compare them with the words of P-e Trump.

"Authoritarian" does not equate to "fascist." Authoritarian regimes have been around since civilization began. Fascism is supposedly an economic system. Nothing in the 14 points is related to economics. It's pure bullshit.

Fascism is not an "economic system". Capitalism is. Socialism is to large degree as is communism.

Actually fascism IS an economic system. As are socialism, and communism. They are three systems who's economic systems are wholly tied to the governmental system as well. They are completely integrated. The progressives here in trying to paint fascism as merely a governmental type by pointing out that the corporations were allowed to remain independent completely ignore the bureaucracy that the Nazi's and Italians implemented to CONTROL what those corporations could produce.

Nothing was produced in Nazi Germany, or fascist Italy without prior government consent. Consent that was predicated on the perceived needs of the government. And, everything about that production was controlled by the government. How much the workers had to be paid, which workers they could use, where the resources had to accessed, how much those resources were to cost, etc. etc. etc.

The only difference between communist russia, and fascist germany was the germans allowed private citizens to own property. In Soviet Russia that wasn't allowed.

Poli Sci 102 (comparative Governments) provides detailed descriptions and examples of many differences between Germany under Hitler and Russian under Stalin as well as Authoritarian regimes, Monarchies, direct and representative democracies, social democracies and totalitarian/despotic governments.

List them.

 

[westwall]

All the racist whites I see here in DC are democrats....not sure where that was going....are there kkk meetings here in DC, no....

With left = big government, and

Right = small government

Then fascism is of the left as it is a big government system.

Since conservatives are small government, and liberals are big government, there is no label, it's just a choice of the people participating. Fascism cannot exist with small, limited, or no government, while conservatism can.....

It just is what it is, and the truth is shocking to many democrats and liberals....

Rightwing is not always "small government". That's seems more of an American view.

Right-wing politics - Wikipedia

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[1][2][3] typically defending this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences [10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system."[14]

The meaning of right-wing "varies across societies, historical epochs, and political systems and ideologies."[29] According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics, in liberal democracies, the political Right opposes socialism and social democracy. Right-wing parties include conservatives, Christian democrats, classical liberals, nationalists and, on the far Right, racists and fascists.[30][page needed]

Roger Eatwell and Neal O'Sullivan divide the Right into five types: 'reactionary', 'moderate', 'radical', 'extreme', and 'new'.[31] Chip Berlet argues that each of these "styles of thought" are "responses to the left", including liberalism and socialism, which have arisen since the 1789 French Revolution.[32] The 'reactionary right' looks toward the past and is "aristocratic, religious and authoritarian".[32] The 'moderate right', typified by the writings of Edmund Burke, is tolerant of change, provided it is gradual, and accepts some aspects of liberalism, including the rule of law and capitalism, although it sees radical laissez-faire and individualism as harmful to society. Often the moderate right promotes nationalism and social welfare policies.[33] 'Radical right' is a term developed after World War II to describe groups and ideologies such as McCarthyism, the John Birch Society, Thatcherism, and the Republikaner Party. Eatwell stresses that this use has "major typological problems" and that the term "has also been applied to clearly democratic developments." [34] The radical right includes right-wing populism and various other subtypes.[35] Eatwell argues that the 'extreme right' has four traits: "1) anti-democracy; 2) nationalism; 3) racism; and 4) the strong state".[36] The 'New Right' consists of the liberal conservatives, who stress small government, free markets, and individual initiative.[37]

Other authors make a distinction between the centre-right and the far right.[38] Parties of the centre-right generally support liberal democracy, capitalism, the market economy (though they may accept government regulation to control monopolies), private property rights, and a limited welfare state (for example government provision of education and medical care). They support conservatism and economic liberalism, and oppose socialism and communism. The phrase far right, by contrast, is used to describe those who favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions.[39][40][41][42][43] Typical examples of leaders to whom the far right label is often applied are Francisco Franco in Spain and Augusto Pinochet in Chile.[44][45][46][page needed][47][48] The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue.[49] The phrase is also used to describe support for ethnic nationalism.

​

Left–right politics - Wikipedia

Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform, and internationalism," while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism."[15]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Left as including anarchists,[16][17] communists, socialists and social democrats,[18] left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.[19][20] Movements for racial equality are also usually linked with left-wing organizations.[21] Trade unionism is also associated with the left.[22]


Political scientists and other analysts regard the Right as including christian democrats, classical liberals, conservatives, right-libertarians,[23] neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists,[24] fascists,[25] reactionaries, and traditionalists.

A number of significant political movements—including feminism and regionalism—do not fit precisely into the left-right spectrum.[26] Nationalism is often regarded as characteristic of the right, although nationalism is also sometimes present in the left.[27] Populism is regarded as having both left wing and right-wing manifestations (see left-wing populism, right-wing populist).[28] Green politics is often regarded as a movement of the left, but in some ways the green movement is difficult to definitively categorize as left or right.[2​

Wiki is not a good source for philosophical discussions. Too many hands in the pie as it were. And, they ignore fact in favor of Fabian Socialist dogma. Right wing is no government. Left wing is collective government. The Fabian Socialists have spent decades trying to convince people that fascism is "rightwing", and communism is "leftwing". The reality is they are both collective government systems which makes them BOTH leftwing.

Disagree - fascism was always considered rightwing, including by the fascists themselves who rejected leftwing ideology. It's only been recently that American right decided to redefine it as leftwing. Like the left - there isn't always a concensus on what it means to be rightwing, but here are some more examples:

Right-wing, rightist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

A general descriptive term for any of several otherwise rather different, conservative, reactionary or fascist political ideologies, the common denominator of which is their qualified or enthusiastic support for the main features of the current social and economic order, accepting all (or nearly all) of its inequalities of wealth, status and privilege (or even in some cases support for a return to an earlier, even more inegalitarian and hierarchical political-economic order). Right wing ideologies tend to emphasize the values of order, patriotism, social cohesion, and a personal sense of duty that makes the individual citizen who “knows his place” responsive to discipline from his political and social superiors. In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in Europe.​

Left-wing, leftist: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

General descriptive terms for any of several otherwise quite varied political ideologies (socialism, communism, social democracy, welfare statism, contemporary American liberalism, some versions of anarchism, etc.) that join in denouncing the extent of economic and social inequality in the present order of society and advocate the adoption of vigorous public policies to reduce or eliminate these inequalities, usually through some combination of the following:

• Reduction or elimination of legal protections for private property rights
• Greater regulation (or complete expropriation) of private economic activity
• Stringent limitations on the right to inherit wealth
• Higher tax burdens on the rich and the middle-class, and/or the provision of more tax-supported government services and money payments to the poor.

In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in European usage. ​

Fascism: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

• A class of political ideologies (and historical political regimes) that takes its name from the movement led by Benito Mussolini that took power in Italy in 1922. Mussolini's ideas and practices directly and indirectly influenced political movements in Germany (especially the Nazi Party), Spain (Franco's Falange Party), France, Argentina, and many other European and non-European countries right up to the present day.

The different "fascist" movements and regimes have varied considerably in their specific goals and practices, but they are usually said to be characterized by several common features

• 1. Militant nationalism, proclaiming the racial and cultural superiority of the dominant ethnic group and asserting that group's inherent right to a special dominant position over other peoples in both the domestic and the international order
  2. The adulation of a single charismatic national leader said to possess near superhuman abilities and to be the truest representation of the ideals of the national culture, whose will should therefore literally be law
  3. Emphasis on the absolute necessity of complete national unity, which is said to require a very powerful and disciplined state organization (especially an extensive secret police and censorship apparatus), unlimited by constitutional restrictions or legal requirements and under the absolute domination of the leader and his political movement or party
  4. Militant anti-Communism coupled with the belief in an extreme and imminent threat to national security from powerful and determined Communist forces both inside and outside the country
  5. Contempt for democratic socialism, democratic capitalism, liberalism, and all forms of individualism as weak, degenerate, divisive and ineffective ideologies leading only to mediocrity or national suicide
  6. Glorification of physical strength, fanatical personal loyalty to the leader, and general combat-readiness as the ultimate personal virtues
  7. A sophisticated apparatus for systematically propagandizing the population into accepting these values and ideas through skilled manipulation of the mass media, which are totally monopolized by the regime once the movement comes to power
  8. A propensity toward pursuing a militaristic and aggressive foreign policy
  9. Strict regulation and control of the economy by the regime through some form of corporatist economic planning in which the legal forms of private ownership of industry are nominally preserved but in which both workers and capitalists are obliged to submit their plans and objectives to the most detailed state regulation and extensive wage and price controls, which are designed to insure the priority of the political leadership's objectives over the private economic interests of the citizenry. Therefore under fascism most of the more important markets are allowed to operate only in a non-competitive, cartelized, and governmentally "rigged" fashion.

​

Government is either collectivist, or individualist. Those are the ONLY two options for government types. Thus, ANY form of collective government is leftwing. Anarchy is the ultimate form of rightwing governmental system. That is merely a fact. The fascists and the socialists are basically the same. Go back and don't pay attention to what they say, pay attention to how they view their citizens. How many rights do the citizens have? What happens to them if they piss the government off etc.

When you do that you come to the conclusion that Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union were the same house, it was merely shades of color that separated them.

Yes - but it's not "collectivist" vs. "individualist" - it's authoritarian vs. non-authoritarian.

Right and Left resemble each other when the move to authoritarian extremes.

I think better ways of looking at it would be this:

But...my personal favorite is this

Nope. Collectivist is by definition authoritarian. The question is the degree to which they are authoritarian. Socialism can be very nice, or very bad. The government chooses as the people have no power. Scandinavian socialism is trotted out as the gold standard, and it is. It is one of the best mixes of authoritarian rule, while also being benevolent. However, the people don't get to choose much about how the government is run. They are taxed at a very high rate and they are "given" benefits as a result of that taxation.
But they have very little real choice.

 

[owebo]

Americans knew by 1933 that Hitler's National Socialist party was not socialist. Time magazine in that year wrote a number of insights into the party saying: "Essentially Nationalists and patrioteers, the Nazi insert "Socialist" into their party name simply as a lure to discontented workers."

Socialism was key to hitlers fascism. He chose not to own industry but rather, own the people of industry (the workers and owners) to control industry. This was a cornerstone of his rule and he created a monstrous government to achieve his goals.

 

[Iceweasel]

Disagree - fascism was always considered rightwing, including by the fascists themselves who rejected leftwing ideology. It's only been recently that American right decided to redefine it as leftwing. Like the left - there isn't always a concensus on what it means to be rightwing, but here are some more examples:

You can disagree with gravity but you'll still fall on your face. Your problem, like most lefties, is that you can't see the forest for the trees. When discussing left or right you have to always take it in context. The right here isn't the same as the right in North Korea.

The right here does not want big government, doesn't want central government managing private lives, including business, does want the freedom of the people to arm themselves and partly to defend the country against a tyrannical government.

Now you can spin, twist or distort until you implode but it won't change the FACT that that post modern American liberals far more closely resemble the fascist style of government they accuse the right of. NO SALE!

 

[Iceweasel]

Wiki is not a good source for philosophical discussions. .....

Wiki gets bad rap for some flaws, but even RWNJs use it when it suits them.

The bottom line is that any reference is only as good as it's references. Any Wiki article that is well references with links to easily viewed resources is good. If it isn't, then skepticism is warranted.

Philosophy is an old subject, both literally and figuratively. Why you think Wiki isn't a good source there is a bit puzzling to me. Please provide more specifics.

The problem is you broad brush when it suits YOU. You can't pin it on others and get away with it. Wiki gets a bad rap because it can be modified by anyone. If there's by some chance a valid link anyone wishing to maintain any degree of credibility will go to the link, or not waste time with open sourced material.

You are puzzled indeed if you think something as subjective as philosophy should be sourced from Wikipedia with any credibility.

 

[Iceweasel]

Americans knew by 1933 that Hitler's National Socialist party was not socialist. Time magazine in that year wrote a number of insights into the party saying: "Essentially Nationalists and patrioteers, the Nazi insert "Socialist" into their party name simply as a lure to discontented workers."

Sounds like an opinion to me. How do you know what their thinking was and please explain how nationalism automatically rules out socialism. You didn't bother to connect the dots, you simply posited it as fact.

 

[Iceweasel]

You want to guess what Volkswagen translates to in English?

Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

My experience says "Never expect a political extremist to give an honest answer." They're extremists because they are irrational and irrational people can't be expected to act rationally.

My experience tells me you are what you hate.