Fed up with the two parties, a new group forms

[OldLady]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

Too bad that these ideas start off good but then seem to get infiltrated by all the extremists and nuts. But seeing as how this is a "centrist" party, maybe it won't be so bad. It would be nice to have another party to choose from that actually has a chance in hell to win elections!

Yeah, at some point we have to do something. Seems to me this would be the obvious answer to this insane, binary environment.
.

A choice better than the one we had in November would be great. The only problem with a third party is that it will succumb to the same entrenched big money interests that have turned the Dems and Repubs into do-nothing partisans. Politicians worried about their own and their party's power make their decisions based on the next election and their donors' desires. A third party is going to do exactly the same thing. I like Independents and third party candidates and the idea of a Centrist Party, but radically changing how these parties are funded is the only way to bring politics back to the people.

 

[Mac1958]

Decomcrat
Republican
Libertarian
Green

Are at least four you have to choose from today.

Another party of like minded people walking in lock step certainly is what we need.

I actually don't care what such a party would represent in terms of individual issues.

My higher priority would be that, whatever the hell it stood for, it would be popular enough to break this insane, childish grip that the two ends have on our politics.
.

 

[whitehall]

It's so true that you can call it a political axiom, you get fed up with the two party system when your party is in the minority.

 

[Mac1958]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

Too bad that these ideas start off good but then seem to get infiltrated by all the extremists and nuts. But seeing as how this is a "centrist" party, maybe it won't be so bad. It would be nice to have another party to choose from that actually has a chance in hell to win elections!

Yeah, at some point we have to do something. Seems to me this would be the obvious answer to this insane, binary environment.
.

A choice better than the one we had in November would be great. The only problem with a third party is that it will succumb to the same entrenched big money interests that have turned the Dems and Repubs into do-nothing partisans. Politicians worried about their own and their party's power make their decisions based on the next election and their donors' desires. A third party is going to do exactly the same thing. I like Independents and third party candidates and the idea of a Centrist Party, but radically changing how these parties are funded is the only way to bring politics back to the people.

Look at some of the responses on this thread, how so many people are satisfied with the way things are going.

It's inexplicable to me.
.

 

[imawhosure]

Let's review third parties, shall we?

2016- Dope Smoking Gary Johnson hands election to Trump.
2000- Hippy Ralph Nader hands the election to Bush.
1992- Crazy Ross Perot hands the election to Slick Willy
1980 - Wacky John Anderson hands the election to Ronnie Ray-gun!
1968 - Racist George Wallace hands the election to Tricky-Dick
1948 - Racist Strom Thurmond and Commie Henry Wallace almost hand the election to Thomas Dewey.

Here's the thing with third parties. They are truly fucking useless.

Better system. Scrap the electoral college, and do what the French are doing- You have an election, and if no one gets 50%, you have a runoff between the two top vote getters.

If a third party has a really good idea, then it will grow from cycle to cycle.

No joe!

Why?

Because as long as our governing power is state based, you are removing power from them. To do what you suggest means then that the senate should no longer be in government. Why have 1/2 of congress be based on states, then remove the power from the states to elect a President? State power is addressed repeatedly in the constitution.

If you do like your idea, then I also assume you are for an article 5, or are you suggesting that we just change the rules without state input?

 

[JoeB131]

The MSM is causing this. I have never seen an event with such polar opposite takes on it by the media. Sure, Washington plutocrats are the actors, but the media is suppose to investigate; not just parrot what their favorite politician says.

don't blame the media for what the GOP did. The GOP knew Trump was a terrible idea, they did nothing to stop him because he wasn't supposed to win.

And so I ask you Mac for your thread--------->which party has changed? Could the Republicans still elect Ronald Reagan as their standard bearer? Conversely, could the Democrats elect JFK as theirs? And at what point in time do we Americans realize that Reagan against JFK is supposed to be the type of Presidential races we need as Americans, instead of Trump versus Hillary!

you see, you keep falling into the trap of saying that Trump is somehow okay because Hillary had that E-mail thing or something. Hillary wasn't personable and she didn't connect with people, but she was perfectly qualified for the job.

Frankly, Reagan was senile by his second term, and the Mainstream media knew about it and didn't report it. JFK was involved with the mob and had lots of affairs. The media knew that, too, and didn't report it.

With Trump, the media told us what he was, most of us got the point, but some of us didn't. Add in wasting votes on third parties, Russian hacking and some people just being complacent because they were sure Hillary had this in the bag, and now we have a crazy person in the White House surrounded by a bunch of other crazy people.

Good job, everyone.

Most of our country resides in the center, and so yes; we could finally get a political 3rd party. Problem is, who is going to fund them? What mechanism will make them viable? How will we get the MSM to tell the truth on our debt situation, and even if they do, how many Americans will listen! Hell, America can't even agree on what is suppressing job creation.

Again, third parties (See my list above) have never been the refuge of sensible centrists who just had enough. They have always been the refuge of populist wankers who skew the results.

The last time we had a credible not nutty third party candidate was Teddy Roosevelt, who tried and failed to save his party from being the tools of the rich.

Again, this is the MSMs fault. Politicians should NEVER get away with the crap they are today, from either side!

The Media gives us what we want. You are like a drunk who blames his bartender for his problems.

 

[JoeB131]

Look at some of the responses on this thread, how so many people are satisfied with the way things are going.

It's inexplicable to me.

No, people have explained it to you, you just don't understand it.

 

[Mac1958]

Look at some of the responses on this thread, how so many people are satisfied with the way things are going. It's inexplicable to me.

No, people have explained it to you, you just don't understand it.

You're actually right. One of my many flaws and weaknesses is that I simply don't understand partisan politics, and I'm the first to admit it. But I also know I'm not the only one by a long shot, and that gives me a measure of comfort.

While that was most likely meant as another one of your insults, you were accidentally correct.
.

 

[imawhosure]

The MSM is causing this. I have never seen an event with such polar opposite takes on it by the media. Sure, Washington plutocrats are the actors, but the media is suppose to investigate; not just parrot what their favorite politician says.

don't blame the media for what the GOP did. The GOP knew Trump was a terrible idea, they did nothing to stop him because he wasn't supposed to win.

And so I ask you Mac for your thread--------->which party has changed? Could the Republicans still elect Ronald Reagan as their standard bearer? Conversely, could the Democrats elect JFK as theirs? And at what point in time do we Americans realize that Reagan against JFK is supposed to be the type of Presidential races we need as Americans, instead of Trump versus Hillary!

you see, you keep falling into the trap of saying that Trump is somehow okay because Hillary had that E-mail thing or something. Hillary wasn't personable and she didn't connect with people, but she was perfectly qualified for the job.

Frankly, Reagan was senile by his second term, and the Mainstream media knew about it and didn't report it. JFK was involved with the mob and had lots of affairs. The media knew that, too, and didn't report it.

With Trump, the media told us what he was, most of us got the point, but some of us didn't. Add in wasting votes on third parties, Russian hacking and some people just being complacent because they were sure Hillary had this in the bag, and now we have a crazy person in the White House surrounded by a bunch of other crazy people.

Good job, everyone.

Most of our country resides in the center, and so yes; we could finally get a political 3rd party. Problem is, who is going to fund them? What mechanism will make them viable? How will we get the MSM to tell the truth on our debt situation, and even if they do, how many Americans will listen! Hell, America can't even agree on what is suppressing job creation.

Again, third parties (See my list above) have never been the refuge of sensible centrists who just had enough. They have always been the refuge of populist wankers who skew the results.

The last time we had a credible not nutty third party candidate was Teddy Roosevelt, who tried and failed to save his party from being the tools of the rich.

Again, this is the MSMs fault. Politicians should NEVER get away with the crap they are today, from either side!

The Media gives us what we want. You are like a drunk who blames his bartender for his problems.

Well then, I suggest you launch a campaign to retake whatever party you associate closest to, away from the people who today run it.


Also, in reality, most of our Presidents were not all that hot if you look back in history. When they acquired to much power, is when we appeared to have gone off the rails. I am not a fan of governing by executive order, I want congress to create legislation, and the President to decide if they veto, or not. Going around congress by either party's President, is NOT what our constitution was designed to do.

Forget if the policies were good or not, but remember who was most successful----->

Roosevelt, fireside chats.

Reagan went directly to the people.

Bill Clinton also to the people.

And when they did, the population put pressure directly on congress to do what they wanted, or voted their butts out! That is how it is supposed to work, and if I was Trump, that is exactly what I would do! He may get a negative response, and if he does, congress will know. If he gets a positive response, they will know also; and really, that is the point!

 

[JoeB131]

You're actually right. One of my many flaws and weaknesses is that I simply don't understand partisan politics, and I'm the first to admit it. But I also know I'm not the only one by a long shot, and that gives me a measure of comfort.

While that was most likely meant as another one of your insults, you were accidentally correct.

That you don't understand the insult is the problem.

Moving right along.

 

[Mac1958]

You're actually right. One of my many flaws and weaknesses is that I simply don't understand partisan politics, and I'm the first to admit it. But I also know I'm not the only one by a long shot, and that gives me a measure of comfort.

While that was most likely meant as another one of your insults, you were accidentally correct.

That you don't understand the insult is the problem.

Moving right along.

What's ironic about your post is that, when insulted by someone like you, I don't think of it as a real insult.

It's actually more of a positive indication, both in terms of my opinions and as a consistent and vivid affirmation of my points.

A strong, national third party would dilute the noise and damage people like you cause, and that would be a very good thing, indeed.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Well then, I suggest you launch a campaign to retake whatever party you associate closest to, away from the people who today run it.

Here's the thing. I was a republican from 1980 until 2008. And then I figured out two things. 1) They always put the interests of the rich above those of working people, and 2) The Religious Crazies who come out to vote for them every year are fine with that because Jesus.

The problem with the Democrats is that they are pussies. Republicans fuck thing up so badly that the people beg them to fix things... and they keep trying to do the 'mother, may I" thing with the GOP when they don't have to.

Carter, Clinton and Obama all got in because the REpubilcans messed up. Bad. They came in with substantial majorities in Congress... and did.. not nearly enough with them.

Which seques nicely into your next point

Also, in reality, most of our Presidents were not all that hot if you look back in history. When they acquired to much power, is when we appeared to have gone off the rails. I am not a fan of governing by executive order, I want congress to create legislation, and the President to decide if they veto, or not. Going around congress by either party's President, is NOT what our constitution was designed to do.

I agree, the Executive and Judicial Branches have picked up too much power that should be exercised by Congress. But that's mostly because of Congress being unwilling to act on things decisively. Case in point, if O-Care was what they spent the last 7 years telling us what it was, then they should have fixed it.

You don't spend 7 years telling me that you're going to rock my world and then say, "Well, we can still cuddle"!

And when they did, the population put pressure directly on congress to do what they wanted, or voted their butts out! That is how it is supposed to work, and if I was Trump, that is exactly what I would do! He may get a negative response, and if he does, congress will know. If he gets a positive response, they will know also; and really, that is the point!

Meh, not really. Clinton got a good response because the economy got better. But republicans still impeached him even though 70% were against it.

Trump's problem is that he never expected to be president, the people never expected him to be president, and now we are all awkwardly looking at each other like the Frat that just got caught putting the horse in the Dean's office.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

You are fighting a mental plague.
Americans have a notorious problem of simply not caring.
We are selfish. Easily distracted, and even more easily entertained. We are like magpies, constantly filling our lives with the next shiny object. Paying little to no attention to looming and glaring problems all around us.
Trying to gather together a large section of the population to actually pay attention...and stop the petty, meaningless in fighting and realize we are nothing but little pawns used against each other by the elites while they steal from us.
We are a plutocratic corporatocracy. Big money and big business control absolutely everything. They get all the breaks. They get all the laws written for their favor. And all they have to do is provide simple entertainment and stir up the pot of meaningless controversy and we just keep right on ignoring them.
This forum is a prime A1 example of just that.

 

[Mac1958]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

You are fighting a mental plague.
Americans have a notorious problem of simply not caring.
We are selfish. Easily distracted, and even more easily entertained. We are like magpies, constantly filling our lives with the next shiny object. Paying little to no attention to looming and glaring problems all around us.
Trying to gather together a large section of the population to actually pay attention...and stop the petty, meaningless in fighting and realize we are nothing but little pawns used against each other by the elites while they steal from us.
We are a plutocratic corporatocracy. Big money and big business control absolutely everything. They get all the breaks. They get all the laws written for their favor. And all they have to do is provide simple entertainment and stir up the pot of meaningless controversy and we just keep right on ignoring them.
This forum is a prime A1 example of just that.

Yeah, can't argue. I tend to look at most of our problems as being culturally based, and this is certainly no exception.

In fact, it may be the biggest and most dangerous (and predictable!) manifestation of what you describe.
.

 

[Manonthestreet]

What is uncentrist about Trump........centrist just another word for status quo....... more debt more spending on welfare.....more open borders

 

[Crixus]

I'm pretty sure we will see many new parties once our shadow govt nukes its own citizens.

We are Negan!

 

[imawhosure]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

Mac, I do NOT want to make this thread partisan, as without partisanship, we all can discuss things more openly. But your suggestion that the two partys are out of touch is mind blowing. To prove the difference, I will give a series of questions for you to answer to yourself------->

1. Both political entities put forth healthcare bills, yes? Upon their writing, which bill was wildly popular? Which one passed anyway?

2. According to almost every poll, how is illegal immigration viewed in this country by Americans? Who is going along with the population?

3. By every measurable standard, what is MORE important to our citizens, job growth, or climate change? How is it being handled by the political entities?

4. How much of our citizenry wants to VOLUNTARILY give up more of THEIR money to the federal government? Same question over the entities!

5. What % of our citizenry liked the Iran deal? Same question!

6. What % of our citizenry think it is a great idea to give bennies to illegals? Same question!

7. When asking the citizenry, what % thought the country was heading in the WRONG direction? Same question!

8. When asking the citizenry, what % want a temporary ban on radical countries until we can come up with a solid way to vet them? Same question!

9. How much of the citizenry wants their utility bills to rise because of regulations that are far and away some of the strictest in the industrialized world? Same question!

10. What % of the citizenry wants to tap our untold reserves of energy to get us off the worlds teat? Same question!

And so, forget if YOU agree with the policies, but what does America think as a whole, and who is doing the citizenry's bidding, putting in what is requested, changing course if they get it wrong and thinking they are smarter than 300 million Americans collectively? That doesn't mean they are doing a bang up job, by no stretch of the imagination, but they are going with the will of the people, and ignoring what they don't want to touch, lol. (like entitlements, but so did the other side)

Remember Hillary V Trump? Well now that there is no Hillary, they attack Trump personally; make him unlikeable, make him bad, and yet he is doing exactly what the vast majority of Americans say they want. He is addressing all of the 10, is he not?

Remember Obama? Why was he lambasted? Was it because we didn't like the person, or because America didn't like his policies? (look at the 10!) On the other hand, why is Trump being lambasted? Is it because of his policies, or is it a personal attack? (think Russia)

The point is----------> no matter what you think PERSONALLY of the policies, this what Americans want. So to say that nobody is addressing Americans needs/wants is misguided. What you should be saying is-----------> eventhough the agenda is what Americans want, they do not like the person implementing them!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

Too bad that these ideas start off good but then seem to get infiltrated by all the extremists and nuts. But seeing as how this is a "centrist" party, maybe it won't be so bad. It would be nice to have another party to choose from that actually has a chance in hell to win elections!

Yeah, at some point we have to do something. Seems to me this would be the obvious answer to this insane, binary environment.
.

The answer is to remove the letters before their names on the ballots. Make the public accountable for the issues rather than the alphabet.

 

[Mac1958]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

Mac, I do NOT want to make this thread partisan, as without partisanship, we all can discuss things more openly. But your suggestion that the two partys are out of touch is mind blowing. To prove the difference, I will give a series of questions for you to answer to yourself------->

1. Both political entities put forth healthcare bills, yes? Upon their writing, which bill was wildly popular? Which one passed anyway?

2. According to almost every poll, how is illegal immigration viewed in this country by Americans? Who is going along with the population?

3. By every measurable standard, what is MORE important to our citizens, job growth, or climate change? How is it being handled by the political entities?

4. How much of our citizenry wants to VOLUNTARILY give up more of THEIR money to the federal government? Same question over the entities!

5. What % of our citizenry liked the Iran deal? Same question!

6. What % of our citizenry think it is a great idea to give bennies to illegals? Same question!

7. When asking the citizenry, what % thought the country was heading in the WRONG direction? Same question!

8. When asking the citizenry, what % want a temporary ban on radical countries until we can come up with a solid way to vet them? Same question!

9. How much of the citizenry wants their utility bills to rise because of regulations that are far and away some of the strictest in the industrialized world? Same question!

10. What % of the citizenry wants to tap our untold reserves of energy to get us off the worlds teat? Same question!

And so, forget if YOU agree with the policies, but what does America think as a whole, and who is doing the citizenry's bidding, putting in what is requested, changing course if they get it wrong and thinking they are smarter than 300 million Americans collectively? That doesn't mean they are doing a bang up job, by no stretch of the imagination, but they are going with the will of the people, and ignoring what they don't want to touch, lol. (like entitlements, but so did the other side)

Remember Hillary V Trump? Well now that there is no Hillary, they attack Trump personally; make him unlikeable, make him bad, and yet he is doing exactly what the vast majority of Americans say they want. He is addressing all of the 10, is he not?

Remember Obama? Why was he lambasted? Was it because we didn't like the person, or because America didn't like his policies? (look at the 10!) On the other hand, why is Trump being lambasted? Is it because of his policies, or is it a personal attack? (think Russia)

The point is----------> no matter what you think PERSONALLY of the policies, this what Americans want. So to say that nobody is addressing Americans needs/wants is misguided. What you should be saying is-----------> eventhough the agenda is what Americans want, they do not like the person implementing them!

I don't think the two parties are out of touch with their individual bases. The problem is that the bases are behaving in such a way as to be destructive to both our political process and the country.

A strong, viable third party might at least put an end to this incredibly binary, all-or-nothing, us against them, hateful, angry behavior that has not only damaged our politics, but has now seeped into our everyday culture. So I'm not actually talking about the individual issues.

This certainly wouldn't be a panacea, and I know that. But I honestly can't think of anything else that might at least partially put an end to this madness.
.

 

[imawhosure]

Well then, I suggest you launch a campaign to retake whatever party you associate closest to, away from the people who today run it.

Here's the thing. I was a republican from 1980 until 2008. And then I figured out two things. 1) They always put the interests of the rich above those of working people, and 2) The Religious Crazies who come out to vote for them every year are fine with that because Jesus.

The problem with the Democrats is that they are pussies. Republicans fuck thing up so badly that the people beg them to fix things... and they keep trying to do the 'mother, may I" thing with the GOP when they don't have to.

Carter, Clinton and Obama all got in because the REpubilcans messed up. Bad. They came in with substantial majorities in Congress... and did.. not nearly enough with them.

Which seques nicely into your next point

Also, in reality, most of our Presidents were not all that hot if you look back in history. When they acquired to much power, is when we appeared to have gone off the rails. I am not a fan of governing by executive order, I want congress to create legislation, and the President to decide if they veto, or not. Going around congress by either party's President, is NOT what our constitution was designed to do.

I agree, the Executive and Judicial Branches have picked up too much power that should be exercised by Congress. But that's mostly because of Congress being unwilling to act on things decisively. Case in point, if O-Care was what they spent the last 7 years telling us what it was, then they should have fixed it.

You don't spend 7 years telling me that you're going to rock my world and then say, "Well, we can still cuddle"!

And when they did, the population put pressure directly on congress to do what they wanted, or voted their butts out! That is how it is supposed to work, and if I was Trump, that is exactly what I would do! He may get a negative response, and if he does, congress will know. If he gets a positive response, they will know also; and really, that is the point!

Meh, not really. Clinton got a good response because the economy got better. But republicans still impeached him even though 70% were against it.

Trump's problem is that he never expected to be president, the people never expected him to be president, and now we are all awkwardly looking at each other like the Frat that just got caught putting the horse in the Dean's office.

Then we agree on some things Joe, and that should tell everyone there is hope, lol. As American citizens, we should try and change things we agree on to make our country better, then argue over the rest later. Just because a Republican/Democrat comes up with an idea does not automatically make it bad, nor should we disagree with it because the other side put it forth. I tend to think we are all Americans and they are my brothers and sisters. As I always tell my grown children, "I would much rather find myself in a foxhole with a bunch of American Democrats, then find myself there with a bunch of Jihadists, Russians, French, or anyone else for that matter." We may disagree with each other, but don't let anyone else dare to try and mess around. It is the American way!