Florida Wants to Kill Kids

[asterism]

What if a doctor has reason to believe that the guns are being used by children without adult supervision-does he have the right to inquire then?

Yes.

providing that unless the information is relevant to the patient's medical care or safety or the safety of others, inquiries regarding firearm ownership or possession should not be made by licensed health care practitioners or health care facilities;

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Secti...ocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=0155&Session=2011

 

[asterism]

Making it illegal for a doctor to ask questions and threatening them with jail is stupid, plain and simple.

Who is threatening jail?

 

[asterism]

Making it illegal for a doctor to ask questions and threatening them with jail is stupid, plain and simple.

Some of these people have no problem with forcing doctors to do certain things when it comes to a woman getting a abortion. And then ironically have a problem with doctors doing their job when it comes to the safety of the child.

What qualifies a doctor as a gun safety expert? Is there some course in Medical School or some internship on a gun range? Do they get to wear the orange vest?

 

[Anachronism]

OK.. good.. I am not an "organized religion" person myself. I happen to think that most of what we call "Christianity" is a tenant agreed upon by mortal men( Constantine and the Council of Nicaea).

I feel that the true meaning of Christianity is very simple... LOVE. I do worship in my country church... I do love our congregation and our pastor.. but I try to be as agape with my love for people as I possible can... which I feel is Jesus' true message.

In other words.. don't be an asshole. Try to make things right for people less fortunate than yourselves. Use your compassion to bring people to God, not hard hardheartedness to push people away.

The rest is all fluff to be debated... Ironically.... on Internet Message Boards.

LOVE is not something that I really believe in very much, Steel. I definitely don't believe in Romantic Love, and have generally found that the agape style of emotional attachment ends up with nothing more than disappointment and unpleasantness. Both of these opinions are based on my own personal history. I look at life as an investment.... What is the return on my time, money, emotional involvement, etc... going to be? If it's high enough, great. If not, I remove the investment and move on.

 

[The Rabbi]

Good point, we need more guns so more drug dealers will kill each other. Lol.

Doctors asking their patients if they do something potentially dangerous?

"Infringing on my FREEDUMBS!"

People do potentially dangerous things all the time and doctors don't ask about them.
Again, what qualifies physicians to give advice about gun safety?

 

[Valerie]

Pardon my paranoia, but how much of this information will my government have privy to once gov't run healthcare takes hold??

That's probably what prompted this legislation is people's fears of big government intrusion on our medical info...

Actually this legislation was introduced after a Pediatrician in Ocala told a woman to find a different doctor when she refused to answer the question of whether there were any guns in the house.

July 23, 2010


The question about the gun had been the last in a series of health questions about Ullmon's 4-month old baby that Dr. Chris Okonkwo had been asking.



“All he asked me was, ‘Are you refusing to answer the question?' and I said,'Yes, I'm refusing to answer the question,'” she said. “The questions stopped at that point.”


Okonkwo told the Star-Banner he asked Ullman about whether she had a gun in her home because of the safety of her children, and told her so.


He said he asks such questions of all his patients because if there are guns in a home with children, he advises that parents lock them away so children don't hurt themselves.


“The purpose is to give advice… I don't tell them to get rid of the guns,” he said. “The purpose is to give advice.”

He said that more than half the families he treats have guns.

Okonkwo said that during the summer, he asks parents the same kinds of questions about whether they have pools at their homes and gives advice about keeping them safe so children don't wander in and drown.

He said he does the same with young drivers, and asks whether they use their cell phones when they drive.

“I've been asking these questions two, three years,” he said.


Occasionally parents ask why he's inquiring, he said, but when he explains that it's to give them safety tips, they comply, Okonkwo said.

When asked whether he explained to Ullman why he was asking about guns in her home, he said she was too defensive and snapped at him, saying “That it wasn't any of my business… so there was no point.”

Okonkwo said the issue was not about whether the parents owned a gun.

He said he would stop being a child's doctor if the parents also refused to give information about whether they had a pool or smoked in the house.

He said the doctor and patient have to develop a relationship of trust and that if parents won't answer such basic safety questions, how could they trust each other about more important health issues.

He said he respected a patient's right not to answer questions, but it was also his right to no longer treat them.

Ullman's husband, Tom Ullman, said Okonkwo had gone too far.

“If I don't have to register my gun with the state of Florida, why do I have to tell my pediatrician whether I own a gun?” Tom Ullman asked.




The American Association of Pediatrics urges pediatricians to ask questions of parents about gun ownership when they get children's medical histories and to suggest that parents remove guns from the home.

Doctors are not required by law to treat patients.

Ocala woman refused service from pediatrician for gun | Ocala.com

 

[The Rabbi]

What qualified that doctor to give advice on gun safety?

IN fact his advice sucked and was just plain wrong.

 

[DaGoose]

What qualified that doctor to give advice on gun safety?

IN fact his advice sucked and was just plain wrong.

For crying out loud!! Didn't you even read the link in your own OP that I've already referred to once before? You make it sound like the doctor is gonna be teaching a course or something.

From YOUR OP....

Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home....

.

 

[asterism]

From the OP link: "Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home, St. Petery said."

A case that is covered by the new law.

I'll bet there are far more doctors with formal gun training than gun owners with formal medical training.

.

Are gun owners refusing to take doctors as clients just because they won't answer private questions about their practice?

 

[R.D.]

What qualified that doctor to give advice on gun safety?

IN fact his advice sucked and was just plain wrong.

For crying out loud!! Didn't you even read the link in your own OP that I've already referred to once before? You make it sound like the doctor is gonna be teaching a course or something.

From YOUR OP....

Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home....

.

Thats red herring. If the mental health of the kid is in question, having guns in the house or not has nothing to do with any medical advice or counseling needed.

 

[asterism]

What qualified that doctor to give advice on gun safety?

IN fact his advice sucked and was just plain wrong.

That's correct. The AAP has the incorrect position that the safest house for kids is one with no guns. You'll also note that the Pediatrician (with no training in pool safety) is incorrect in his methods and his advice to homeowners with pools. The best way to prevent drowning is to teach the kids how to swim, and only asking during the summer is COMPLETELY wrong.

A significant factor here is whether this Pediatrician is keeping records on pool owners. I've never seen that on an intake questionnaire. I have seen gun questions.

 

[asterism]

What qualified that doctor to give advice on gun safety?

IN fact his advice sucked and was just plain wrong.

For crying out loud!! Didn't you even read the link in your own OP that I've already referred to once before? You make it sound like the doctor is gonna be teaching a course or something.

This specific Pediatrician's justification is so that he can instruct his patients.

From YOUR OP....

Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home....

.

A situation allowed by the new law. In the case of this specific situation, what about that 4 month old child made him vulnerable to suicide?

 

[R.D.]

Ocala woman refused service from pediatrician for gun | Ocala.com

“What's safer for my child, to let the question go or discharge my children to another pediatrician?” he added. ( Tom Ullman, the father, asked)

Good question - and points to the hypocrisy of the Dr. in this case

 

[The Rabbi]

What qualified that doctor to give advice on gun safety?

IN fact his advice sucked and was just plain wrong.

For crying out loud!! Didn't you even read the link in your own OP that I've already referred to once before? You make it sound like the doctor is gonna be teaching a course or something.

From YOUR OP....

Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home....

.

That doesn't answer the question as to what qualifies the doctor to give advice on gun safety.
The answer is that he is not qualified. So why should he do it?

 

[DaGoose]

What qualified that doctor to give advice on gun safety?

IN fact his advice sucked and was just plain wrong.

For crying out loud!! Didn't you even read the link in your own OP that I've already referred to once before? You make it sound like the doctor is gonna be teaching a course or something.

This specific Pediatrician's justification is so that he can instruct his patients.

From YOUR OP....

Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home....

.

A situation allowed by the new law. In the case of this specific situation, what about that 4 month old child made him vulnerable to suicide?

The new law.......

Anyone who supports this "law" need never complain about the "nanny state" or "government over reach". As was stated before if the patient doesn't like the questions the doctor asks then they have the right to seek out another doctor.

 

[DaGoose]

What qualified that doctor to give advice on gun safety?

IN fact his advice sucked and was just plain wrong.

For crying out loud!! Didn't you even read the link in your own OP that I've already referred to once before? You make it sound like the doctor is gonna be teaching a course or something.

From YOUR OP....

Pediatricians are often the first health professionals to identify kids and adolescents with mental issues who are vulnerable to suicide, the AAP says. In these situations, it becomes critical for pediatricians to know whether the children have access to a gun at home....

.

That doesn't answer the question as to what qualifies the doctor to give advice on gun safety.
The answer is that he is not qualified. So why should he do it?

"He said he asks such questions of all his patients because if there are guns in a home with children, he advises that parents lock them away so children don't hurt themselves."

Ya....that's HORRIBLE advice!! How dare he suggest such a terrible thing.

.

 

[Valerie]

Ocala woman refused service from pediatrician for gun | Ocala.com

“What's safer for my child, to let the question go or discharge my children to another pediatrician?” he added. ( Tom Ullman, the father, asked)

Good question - and points to the hypocrisy of the Dr. in this case

I don't think it's hypocritical at all to say, hey this relationship isn't going to work out since you're not willing to communicate with me about the safety of your child.

The doctor has a right to refuse patients and he gave them 30 days to find someone they would feel more comfortable with going forward... The child's health was never compromised by his decision to let them go to another practice...



He said the doctor and patient have to develop a relationship of trust and that if parents won't answer such basic safety questions, how could they trust each other about more important health issues.


Sounds like the parents were just overly paranoid and I don't blame people for being concerned about their privacy, but the proper solution for the state legislators would be to ease the public concern about the insurance company or the state regulators and establish they have NO right to this private information.

Instead the state took the backward approach to OUTLAW a certain question by professionals who are medically trained advocates for child health and safety, which is overreaching, foolish, and downright paranoid...

 

[The Rabbi]

For crying out loud!! Didn't you even read the link in your own OP that I've already referred to once before? You make it sound like the doctor is gonna be teaching a course or something.

From YOUR OP....



.

That doesn't answer the question as to what qualifies the doctor to give advice on gun safety.
The answer is that he is not qualified. So why should he do it?

"He said he asks such questions of all his patients because if there are guns in a home with children, he advises that parents lock them away so children don't hurt themselves."

Ya....that's HORRIBLE advice!! How dare he suggest such a terrible thing.

.

Yup, that is horrible advice. Glad you see it that way now.

BUt I'll bet you're too fucking stupid to explain why.

 

[Valerie]

That doesn't answer the question as to what qualifies the doctor to give advice on gun safety.
The answer is that he is not qualified. So why should he do it?

"He said he asks such questions of all his patients because if there are guns in a home with children, he advises that parents lock them away so children don't hurt themselves."

Ya....that's HORRIBLE advice!! How dare he suggest such a terrible thing.

.

Yup, that is horrible advice. Glad you see it that way now.

BUt I'll bet you're too fucking stupid to explain why.

It's true he could just give blanket advice to everyone without ever asking the specific questions, which is probably what the new pediatrician's approach will be... Sometimes it's just personality and approach aren't a good match, but still no reason to OUTLAW the question in a private professional relationship...

 

[DaGoose]

That doesn't answer the question as to what qualifies the doctor to give advice on gun safety.
The answer is that he is not qualified. So why should he do it?

"He said he asks such questions of all his patients because if there are guns in a home with children, he advises that parents lock them away so children don't hurt themselves."

Ya....that's HORRIBLE advice!! How dare he suggest such a terrible thing.

.

Yup, that is horrible advice. Glad you see it that way now.

BUt I'll bet you're too fucking stupid to explain why.

And if I did you'd be too fucking stupid to understand it. Anyone who thinks it's Ok to have loaded guns just laying around the house with little children around has a definite lack of common sense.

"He said he asks such questions of all his patients because if there are guns in a home with children, he advises that parents lock them away so children don't hurt themselves."

Ya....that's HORRIBLE advice!! How dare he suggest such a terrible thing.

.

Yup, that is horrible advice. Glad you see it that way now.

BUt I'll bet you're too fucking stupid to explain why.

It's true he could just give blanket advice to everyone without ever asking the specific questions, which is probably what the new pediatrician's approach will be... Sometimes it's just personality and approach aren't a good match, but still no reason to OUTLAW the question in a private professional relationship...

I'll be SHOCKED if this "law" passes Constitutional muster.

.