For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers

[Freewill]

It is a damn shame the lack of gay florists, I guess none of them were born that way.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Actually it's how they do. Political views are not a "protected class."

Oh yes, in some states political views do count, as does sex and gender, so you are wrong . . . again like usual.

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

 

[ChrisL]

Oh yes, in some states political views do count, as does sex and gender, so you are wrong . . . again like usual.

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

No, you are wrong and have a poor understanding of the written law. Go do your homework. You too sound foolish!

 

[ChrisL]

It's about equal access to a product, you dumb arses. Lol! It has NOTHING to do with the product being provided. Understand the laws before you speak about them please. Now THAT is annoying.

 

[ChrisL]

Another example. I can refuse to make "specialty" cakes for customers. I can have a book with the cakes I will make. I can refuse to make a specialty cake for anyone, as this does not discriminate against any group of people in particular. However, refusing to even bake a cake, which is the service I provide, to a person because he or she is gay, is discrimination.

Gay cakes are "specialty cakes", problem solved.

Can a cake be gay?

Yes. Gays can only go to gay stores and buy gay cakes. Lol!

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Another example. I can refuse to make "specialty" cakes for customers. I can have a book with the cakes I will make. I can refuse to make a specialty cake for anyone, as this does not discriminate against any group of people in particular. However, refusing to even bake a cake, which is the service I provide, to a person because he or she is gay, is discrimination.

Gay cakes are "specialty cakes", problem solved.

What do you imagine a wedding cake looks like? And isn't a birthday cake, a wedding cake, an anniversary cake considered 'specialty' cakes too? Any cake that delivers a special message is a 'specialty' cake.

The ones in my book would have a bride and groom on top. The OP stated there would be a book showing cakes she would make. It wasn't my post, I just responded.

You could simply sell a cake with nothing on top. If the client wants to add it themselves that's fine.

 

[PratchettFan]

Actually it's how they do. Political views are not a "protected class."

Oh yes, in some states political views do count, as does sex and gender, so you are wrong . . . again like usual.

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

If you are going to say you are in favor of a law, at least put a modicum of effort into reading and comprehending what that law is. You clearly have no clue even though I posted a copy of it for you to read. I'm willing to wager that was the first time you ever saw it.

 

[PratchettFan]

Oh yes, in some states political views do count, as does sex and gender, so you are wrong . . . again like usual.

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

Not true. If you open your business to the public your are a public accommodation. Otherwise, you are a private club.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

In fact, I can open up a business that specializes in making signs for churches. That is not discriminatory either. That just happens to be the products I offer at my business.

OK, I'll ask again:

If you are gay and you print billboards for a living, and a Christian customer walked in and asked for you to print them a billboard that says: "Homosexuality is a sin unto God" for a busy highway, would you or would you not be able to deny serving that PARTICULAR request for a billboard based on your principles as a homosexual? Yes or no?

I would think you could reasonably deny that request. I could make it my policy not to portray hateful, sexual, or violent messages on my billboards. That is not discriminating against the individual but their message.

BTW the gay people were the victims not the baker. The gays didn't discriminate by asking for a cake.

 

[PratchettFan]

Another example. I can refuse to make "specialty" cakes for customers. I can have a book with the cakes I will make. I can refuse to make a specialty cake for anyone, as this does not discriminate against any group of people in particular. However, refusing to even bake a cake, which is the service I provide, to a person because he or she is gay, is discrimination.

Gay cakes are "specialty cakes", problem solved.

What do you imagine a wedding cake looks like? And isn't a birthday cake, a wedding cake, an anniversary cake considered 'specialty' cakes too? Any cake that delivers a special message is a 'specialty' cake.

The ones in my book would have a bride and groom on top. The OP stated there would be a book showing cakes she would make. It wasn't my post, I just responded.

You could simply sell a cake with nothing on top. If the client wants to add it themselves that's fine.

A wedding cake is all about the decorations. A bakery that doesn't decorate a cake isn't selling any.

 

[PratchettFan]

In fact, I can open up a business that specializes in making signs for churches. That is not discriminatory either. That just happens to be the products I offer at my business.

OK, I'll ask again:

If you are gay and you print billboards for a living, and a Christian customer walked in and asked for you to print them a billboard that says: "Homosexuality is a sin unto God" for a busy highway, would you or would you not be able to deny serving that PARTICULAR request for a billboard based on your principles as a homosexual? Yes or no?

I would think you could reasonably deny that request. I could make it my policy not to portray hateful, sexual, or violent messages on my billboards. That is not discriminating against the individual but their message.

BTW the gay people were the victims not the baker. The gays didn't discriminate by asking for a cake.

Not under the Oregon law you couldn't. That is a religious expression and religion is a protected class.

 

[Dot Com]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

I'm guessing teapartysamurai and other thumpers are in a tizzy over this?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

If I open a business, I most certainly am within my right to say that I will not print things that contain hate speech. What I cannot do is refuse to do business with a certain segment of my community. This is really quite simple concept. I cannot understand why you all are having such a difficult time understanding it.

Limiting the services you provide the public is not discrimination. Lol. Refusing to serve a person because he or she is gay, black, or whatever, is discrimination. You may not like it, but that's how it is.

Interesting the distinction allows YOU to decide who to work for yet still letting you think others should be forced to work for people they don't want to work for, unless of course there is a compelling government interest.

I'm sure that quite a few white folks had the same butthurt as you when they found out they must serve blacks. This argument has been settled for decades.

 

[martybegan]

Actually it's how they do. Political views are not a "protected class."

Oh yes, in some states political views do count, as does sex and gender, so you are wrong . . . again like usual.

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

A baker that offered to bake cakes in any shape is a stupid baker.

Can you show me a PA law that covers political views?

Ask ChrisL, he's the one who said political views are covered.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

I'm guessing teapartysamurai and other thumpers are in a tizzy over this?

I imagine you must be in the Tizzy. You tagged me, remember?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

If I opened a printing business, I would expect to have all kinds of customers. If I had a rule, it would apply to all people equally. That is not discriminating.

So then you believe and would support as a matter of law, language in any Court Ruling on this topic when it makes it to SCOTUS in the next year or two, that gay graphic artists would have to be forced to print "homosexuality is an abomination and a mortal sin, forbidden by the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament" for a busy highway billboard, or they could be fined or gagged, or sued into the poorhouse by Christians?

OK, anyone else agree with Chris?

Nope, I would have a rule that I don't print hate speech, regardless of the belief of the customer. That would equally apply to everyone. No discrimination.

What if I had a rule that I didn't put two men or two women on a wedding cake and applied that equally to everyone? Would that be discrimination?

No, that is discriminating against gay people. You could have a rule that you make the cake but you don't decorate them. Or, you can have generic cakes that the public can choose and not deviate from those samples.

OR THEY CAN JUST GO TO ANOTHER BAKER

Well they're gonna have to now that yours is out of business. Lol

 

[martybegan]

If I open a business, I most certainly am within my right to say that I will not print things that contain hate speech. What I cannot do is refuse to do business with a certain segment of my community. This is really quite simple concept. I cannot understand why you all are having such a difficult time understanding it.

Limiting the services you provide the public is not discrimination. Lol. Refusing to serve a person because he or she is gay, black, or whatever, is discrimination. You may not like it, but that's how it is.

Interesting the distinction allows YOU to decide who to work for yet still letting you think others should be forced to work for people they don't want to work for, unless of course there is a compelling government interest.

I'm sure that quite a few white folks had the same butthurt as you when they found out they must serve blacks. This argument has been settled for decades.

in that situation is was systemic economic discrimination that was government mandated, not a few bakers not wanting to participate in a gay wedding.

 

[martybegan]

So then you believe and would support as a matter of law, language in any Court Ruling on this topic when it makes it to SCOTUS in the next year or two, that gay graphic artists would have to be forced to print "homosexuality is an abomination and a mortal sin, forbidden by the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament" for a busy highway billboard, or they could be fined or gagged, or sued into the poorhouse by Christians?

OK, anyone else agree with Chris?

Nope, I would have a rule that I don't print hate speech, regardless of the belief of the customer. That would equally apply to everyone. No discrimination.

What if I had a rule that I didn't put two men or two women on a wedding cake and applied that equally to everyone? Would that be discrimination?

No, that is discriminating against gay people. You could have a rule that you make the cake but you don't decorate them. Or, you can have generic cakes that the public can choose and not deviate from those samples.

OR THEY CAN JUST GO TO ANOTHER BAKER

Well they're gonna have to now that yours is out of business. Lol

Not mine. and your mean spiritedness is noted.

 

[teapartysamurai]

So then you believe and would support as a matter of law, language in any Court Ruling on this topic when it makes it to SCOTUS in the next year or two, that gay graphic artists would have to be forced to print "homosexuality is an abomination and a mortal sin, forbidden by the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament" for a busy highway billboard, or they could be fined or gagged, or sued into the poorhouse by Christians?

OK, anyone else agree with Chris?

Nope, I would have a rule that I don't print hate speech, regardless of the belief of the customer. That would equally apply to everyone. No discrimination.

What if I had a rule that I didn't put two men or two women on a wedding cake and applied that equally to everyone? Would that be discrimination?

No, that is discriminating against gay people. You could have a rule that you make the cake but you don't decorate them. Or, you can have generic cakes that the public can choose and not deviate from those samples.

OR THEY CAN JUST GO TO ANOTHER BAKER

Well they're gonna have to now that yours is out of business. Lol

So, it IS the agenda of the left to shut down Christian owned businesses.

Thank you for openly admitting that.

 

[martybegan]

and you denying your fellow Americans their pursuit of happiness because they find moral objection to something, and are causing no harm to anyone else.

You say it does no harm. Black people, women and gay people would tend to disagree with you, and all those who have actually EXPERIENCED discrimination. Just because you are ignorant to their plight doesn't make it "unimportant" or "harmless." The state has deemed that it IS harmful.

Hurt feelings are not harm.

The state disagrees and feels that restricting certain segments of the community to only doing business with those who "agree" with them is quite harmful, not only to the individual but to the business community as a whole, which is of compelling interest to any state. Good and fair business practice helps everyone and harms no one.

except the person who want's to be a baker, and can't because of their morals and the state's insistence their morals don't count.

But evidently your's do, and that makes you a fucking hypocrite.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Obviously it makes you feel better. Lol! Still funny to me!

You don't care that they get screwed because you don't agree with them. It's that simple. I don't want people to get screwed even if I don't agree with them. That's what makes me better than you.