For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers

[ChrisL]

I agree that works for non-necessary services, but even the libertarian in me realizes certain commerce requires all comers to be served. Gas stations, medical care, travel lodging, base necessities, and of course, anything related to a government/transit/utility service.

I get what you are saying, but I have the feeling that a gas station, even in the reddest necked part of the country, wouldn't stay in business long if it put up a "Whites Only" sign. I am not under the impression discrimination isn't still rampant, but let's get it into the open where people can see it. A while back I saw a news piece on a KKK chapter that was going around their small town trying to explain they were just in favor of supporting the white race, not that they were racists or had anything at all against blacks. Can you imagine? In small town America, the KKK is embarrassed about being racist.

I do not trust the government to please anyone, let alone everyone, in determining what is or is not necessary. Let the market do the job instead. Would you buy a home in a community that proudly proclaimed Jews were not welcome, even if you secretly wished they weren't? Let them discriminate, but make them advertise the fact that they do. I don't think it will be long before the signs disappear.

IOW, you expect racists and bigots to be HONEST. Lol. Hilarious.

No. I expect them to be public about it or keep it to themselves. If they don't want to serve "those people" then let them tell everyone that is their intention - not just when one of "those people" happen to walk in. If they don't advertise, if they don't tell the entire community exactly what they intend to do, then they can't do it.

The fact you don't like it is very encouraging. I think I might be onto something here.

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Sorry, but according to state law, you don't have any "right" to treat other people as second class citizens when it comes to your business practices. If you don't like it, don't open a business or be prepared to get sued. That is the reality of the situation.

Now, if it is so important to you that people have a "right" to discrimination, then perhaps you'd better log off and start your letter writing and email campaign so you can petition the state governments to ALLOW you to openly discriminate instead of your incessant whining on a message board to a person who has no control over the law. I only support it.

 

[Claudette]

So, the argument is basically this. The state has no right to set rules and regulations upon businesses. Businesses should be able to do whatever they want without state interference, including discriminate against certain (and WHOLE) sectors of our society, and that should be no biggie. We should have segregated shopping and stores. Hopefully you can see how ridiculous this argument is.

No, it's that the States have to take into account the religious liberty of the party in question, and weigh that against the actual harm caused to the "offended" party.

Your "religious liberty" doesn't give you the right to discriminate against people when it comes to conducting business.

I agree. If a baker doesn't want to bake a cake for someone then he's within his right to not bake that cake.

Same goes for florists and anyone else who runs a business. If they don't want to do business with you then tough shit. Go elsewhere. Someone will always be willing to take your business.

No way should anyone be forced to do business with those they don't want to.

No way should they be penalized for not wanting to do business with someone.

Last I heard this was a free country and that's part of the freedom.

 

[MarcATL]

When one side has people who think their world view is the only valid one, THAT is where we get into trouble. It's not all progressives, but some of the more vocal ones just don't want you to be wrong, they want you to be ruined and silenced.

I know it used to be social conservatives back in the "moral majority" days that took that tactic, and they were wrong to do so, but today progressives are the ones trying to stifle free expression, from demands of punishment for guys like the scientist with the 'sexist" shirt (designed by a woman) to the whole "micro-aggression" thing going on in Universities.

Both sides do it pretty much equally. This is not a political trait, it is a human one.

Back to the issue here, I admit I have been torn on the issue. On the one hand, I fully understand the importance for a community to prevent discrimination. On the other, the very same reason I have been a long time supporter of SSM is the reason these laws make me unhappy. I don't think the purpose of government is to tell us how to live our lives. So I have come up with something of a compromise - which I am certain will never be enacted but I'll share anyway.

Rather than prohibiting discrimination - and I mean this across the board - what if we just required people to be up front about it? If a bakery doesn't want make wedding cakes for same sex weddings, have them post a notice in their window so consumers know they can't obtain one there. If a hotel doesn't want to serve black customers, let them post that on their sign so there is no confusion. If a business wishes to discriminate they are free to discriminate, they just have to let people know. If a business does not notify someone up front that their custom is not welcome, then they have to provide their services. Truth in advertising.

I agree that works for non-necessary services, but even the libertarian in me realizes certain commerce requires all comers to be served. Gas stations, medical care, travel lodging, base necessities, and of course, anything related to a government/transit/utility service.

I get what you are saying, but I have the feeling that a gas station, even in the reddest necked part of the country, wouldn't stay in business long if it put up a "Whites Only" sign. I am not under the impression discrimination isn't still rampant, but let's get it into the open where people can see it. A while back I saw a news piece on a KKK chapter that was going around their small town trying to explain they were just in favor of supporting the white race, not that they were racists or had anything at all against blacks. Can you imagine? In small town America, the KKK is embarrassed about being racist.

I do not trust the government to please anyone, let alone everyone, in determining what is or is not necessary. Let the market do the job instead. Would you buy a home in a community that proudly proclaimed Jews were not welcome, even if you secretly wished they weren't? Let them discriminate, but make them advertise the fact that they do. I don't think it will be long before the signs disappear.

You're talking like a kook.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Care to address the actual issue, or is this just another label on a box?

I already thoroughly addressed the issue m

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisL]

So, the argument is basically this. The state has no right to set rules and regulations upon businesses. Businesses should be able to do whatever they want without state interference, including discriminate against certain (and WHOLE) sectors of our society, and that should be no biggie. We should have segregated shopping and stores. Hopefully you can see how ridiculous this argument is.

No, it's that the States have to take into account the religious liberty of the party in question, and weigh that against the actual harm caused to the "offended" party.

Your "religious liberty" doesn't give you the right to discriminate against people when it comes to conducting business.

I agree. If a baker doesn't want to bake a cake for someone then he's within his right to not bake that cake.

Same goes for florists and anyone else who runs a business. If they don't want to do business with you then tough shit. Go elsewhere. Someone will always be willing to take your business.

No way should anyone be forced to do business with those they don't want to.

No way should they be penalized for not wanting to do business with someone.

Last I heard this was a free country and that's part of the freedom.

Don't open a business or you will be sued. Take from that what you will.

 

[MarcATL]

I agree that works for non-necessary services, but even the libertarian in me realizes certain commerce requires all comers to be served. Gas stations, medical care, travel lodging, base necessities, and of course, anything related to a government/transit/utility service.

I get what you are saying, but I have the feeling that a gas station, even in the reddest necked part of the country, wouldn't stay in business long if it put up a "Whites Only" sign. I am not under the impression discrimination isn't still rampant, but let's get it into the open where people can see it. A while back I saw a news piece on a KKK chapter that was going around their small town trying to explain they were just in favor of supporting the white race, not that they were racists or had anything at all against blacks. Can you imagine? In small town America, the KKK is embarrassed about being racist.

I do not trust the government to please anyone, let alone everyone, in determining what is or is not necessary. Let the market do the job instead. Would you buy a home in a community that proudly proclaimed Jews were not welcome, even if you secretly wished they weren't? Let them discriminate, but make them advertise the fact that they do. I don't think it will be long before the signs disappear.

IOW, you expect racists and bigots to be HONEST. Lol. Hilarious.

No. I expect them to be public about it or keep it to themselves. If they don't want to serve "those people" then let them tell everyone that is their intention - not just when one of "those people" happen to walk in. If they don't advertise, if they don't tell the entire community exactly what they intend to do, then they can't do it.

The fact you don't like it is very encouraging. I think I might be onto something here.

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[Silhouette]

Last I heard this was a free country and that's part of the freedom.

Don't open a business or you will be sued. Take from that what you will.

Yes gay graphic art billboard designers. If you don't want to print a billboard for a Christian that says "Homosexuality is a sin unto God", then don't open a business or you will be sued if you refuse to do that on principle.

 

[PratchettFan]

I get what you are saying, but I have the feeling that a gas station, even in the reddest necked part of the country, wouldn't stay in business long if it put up a "Whites Only" sign. I am not under the impression discrimination isn't still rampant, but let's get it into the open where people can see it. A while back I saw a news piece on a KKK chapter that was going around their small town trying to explain they were just in favor of supporting the white race, not that they were racists or had anything at all against blacks. Can you imagine? In small town America, the KKK is embarrassed about being racist.

I do not trust the government to please anyone, let alone everyone, in determining what is or is not necessary. Let the market do the job instead. Would you buy a home in a community that proudly proclaimed Jews were not welcome, even if you secretly wished they weren't? Let them discriminate, but make them advertise the fact that they do. I don't think it will be long before the signs disappear.

IOW, you expect racists and bigots to be HONEST. Lol. Hilarious.

No. I expect them to be public about it or keep it to themselves. If they don't want to serve "those people" then let them tell everyone that is their intention - not just when one of "those people" happen to walk in. If they don't advertise, if they don't tell the entire community exactly what they intend to do, then they can't do it.

The fact you don't like it is very encouraging. I think I might be onto something here.

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Sorry, but according to state law, you don't have any "right" to treat other people as second class citizens when it comes to your business practices. If you don't like it, don't open a business or be prepared to get sued. That is the reality of the situation.

Now, if it is so important to you that people have a "right" to discrimination, then perhaps you'd better log off and start your letter writing and email campaign so you can petition the state governments to ALLOW you to openly discriminate instead of your incessant whining on a message board to a person who has no control over the law. I only support it.

You didn't answer the question. Has that solved the problem?

 

[martybegan]

So, the argument is basically this. The state has no right to set rules and regulations upon businesses. Businesses should be able to do whatever they want without state interference, including discriminate against certain (and WHOLE) sectors of our society, and that should be no biggie. We should have segregated shopping and stores. Hopefully you can see how ridiculous this argument is.

No, it's that the States have to take into account the religious liberty of the party in question, and weigh that against the actual harm caused to the "offended" party.

Your "religious liberty" doesn't give you the right to discriminate against people when it comes to conducting business.

I agree. If a baker doesn't want to bake a cake for someone then he's within his right to not bake that cake.

Same goes for florists and anyone else who runs a business. If they don't want to do business with you then tough shit. Go elsewhere. Someone will always be willing to take your business.

No way should anyone be forced to do business with those they don't want to.

No way should they be penalized for not wanting to do business with someone.

Last I heard this was a free country and that's part of the freedom.

Don't open a business or you will be sued. Take from that what you will.

Obey or else.

 

[PratchettFan]

I get what you are saying, but I have the feeling that a gas station, even in the reddest necked part of the country, wouldn't stay in business long if it put up a "Whites Only" sign. I am not under the impression discrimination isn't still rampant, but let's get it into the open where people can see it. A while back I saw a news piece on a KKK chapter that was going around their small town trying to explain they were just in favor of supporting the white race, not that they were racists or had anything at all against blacks. Can you imagine? In small town America, the KKK is embarrassed about being racist.

I do not trust the government to please anyone, let alone everyone, in determining what is or is not necessary. Let the market do the job instead. Would you buy a home in a community that proudly proclaimed Jews were not welcome, even if you secretly wished they weren't? Let them discriminate, but make them advertise the fact that they do. I don't think it will be long before the signs disappear.

IOW, you expect racists and bigots to be HONEST. Lol. Hilarious.

No. I expect them to be public about it or keep it to themselves. If they don't want to serve "those people" then let them tell everyone that is their intention - not just when one of "those people" happen to walk in. If they don't advertise, if they don't tell the entire community exactly what they intend to do, then they can't do it.

The fact you don't like it is very encouraging. I think I might be onto something here.

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

 

[ChrisL]

I get what you are saying, but I have the feeling that a gas station, even in the reddest necked part of the country, wouldn't stay in business long if it put up a "Whites Only" sign. I am not under the impression discrimination isn't still rampant, but let's get it into the open where people can see it. A while back I saw a news piece on a KKK chapter that was going around their small town trying to explain they were just in favor of supporting the white race, not that they were racists or had anything at all against blacks. Can you imagine? In small town America, the KKK is embarrassed about being racist.

I do not trust the government to please anyone, let alone everyone, in determining what is or is not necessary. Let the market do the job instead. Would you buy a home in a community that proudly proclaimed Jews were not welcome, even if you secretly wished they weren't? Let them discriminate, but make them advertise the fact that they do. I don't think it will be long before the signs disappear.

IOW, you expect racists and bigots to be HONEST. Lol. Hilarious.

No. I expect them to be public about it or keep it to themselves. If they don't want to serve "those people" then let them tell everyone that is their intention - not just when one of "those people" happen to walk in. If they don't advertise, if they don't tell the entire community exactly what they intend to do, then they can't do it.

The fact you don't like it is very encouraging. I think I might be onto something here.

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Exactly. These are the same people who had to be "forced" (according to them) to do business with blacks and to treat them as human beings. Seems to have worked quite well. Black people are now free to shop at the store of their choice. The same will be true for gay people soon enough, I'm sure.

 

[ChrisL]

IOW, you expect racists and bigots to be HONEST. Lol. Hilarious.

No. I expect them to be public about it or keep it to themselves. If they don't want to serve "those people" then let them tell everyone that is their intention - not just when one of "those people" happen to walk in. If they don't advertise, if they don't tell the entire community exactly what they intend to do, then they can't do it.

The fact you don't like it is very encouraging. I think I might be onto something here.

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

 

[martybegan]

IOW, you expect racists and bigots to be HONEST. Lol. Hilarious.

No. I expect them to be public about it or keep it to themselves. If they don't want to serve "those people" then let them tell everyone that is their intention - not just when one of "those people" happen to walk in. If they don't advertise, if they don't tell the entire community exactly what they intend to do, then they can't do it.

The fact you don't like it is very encouraging. I think I might be onto something here.

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Exactly. These are the same people who had to be "forced" (according to them) to do business with blacks and to treat them as human beings. Seems to have worked quite well. Black people are now free to shop at the store of their choice. The same will be true for gay people soon enough, I'm sure.

Again, that was government mandated systemic discrimination. Not a few bakers here and there wanting to not work gay weddings.

 

[martybegan]

No. I expect them to be public about it or keep it to themselves. If they don't want to serve "those people" then let them tell everyone that is their intention - not just when one of "those people" happen to walk in. If they don't advertise, if they don't tell the entire community exactly what they intend to do, then they can't do it.

The fact you don't like it is very encouraging. I think I might be onto something here.

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

No, they only protect you if you are a member of a protected class. So you can deny service to me due to my political views, unless I can figure out some way to relate it to some protected class.

And only you think someone acting on their morals is "being a jerk"

 

[ChrisL]

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

No, they only protect you if you are a member of a protected class. So you can deny service to me due to my political views, unless I can figure out some way to relate it to some protected class.

And only you think someone acting on their morals is "being a jerk"

No I cannot and also, I would not. Businesses are also not allowed to discriminate against a person based upon his or her religious views. God, you really are so stupid. It's unbelievable really.

 

[martybegan]

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

No, they only protect you if you are a member of a protected class. So you can deny service to me due to my political views, unless I can figure out some way to relate it to some protected class.

And only you think someone acting on their morals is "being a jerk"

No I cannot and also, I would not. Businesses are also not allowed to discriminate against a person based upon his or her religious views. God, you really are so stupid. It's unbelievable really.

Actually you could do it, because as a white heterosexual male of indeterminate religious affiliation, you could deny me service because of my views. I said political views. read my statement before responding next time.

 

[ChrisL]

Sorry, but the states (almost ALL of them) disagree with you and feel that discrimination is harmful to business practice. Go suck on that for a while.

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

No, they only protect you if you are a member of a protected class. So you can deny service to me due to my political views, unless I can figure out some way to relate it to some protected class.

And only you think someone acting on their morals is "being a jerk"

yeah, you go petition your state to recognize your "religious views" when it comes to business matters. Let's see how far you get. For one thing, it is against the states' best interests to humor you and your intolerance for others. The states do what is best for the states when it comes to business matters, and allowing you to blatantly discriminate against certain sectors of the communities would harm the states income. This is why you would be ignored, so go ahead and cry about how you are being "persecuted" for your strange and outdated ancient religious beliefs. Lol! I think it would be hilarious.

 

[ChrisL]

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

No, they only protect you if you are a member of a protected class. So you can deny service to me due to my political views, unless I can figure out some way to relate it to some protected class.

And only you think someone acting on their morals is "being a jerk"

No I cannot and also, I would not. Businesses are also not allowed to discriminate against a person based upon his or her religious views. God, you really are so stupid. It's unbelievable really.

Actually you could do it, because as a white heterosexual male of indeterminate religious affiliation, you could deny me service because of my views. I said political views. read my statement before responding next time.

Yeah but no. That is not how the law works.

 

[martybegan]

And that has solved the problem, has it?

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

No, they only protect you if you are a member of a protected class. So you can deny service to me due to my political views, unless I can figure out some way to relate it to some protected class.

And only you think someone acting on their morals is "being a jerk"

yeah, you go petition your state to recognize your "religious views" when it comes to business matters. Let's see how far you get. For one thing, it is against the states' best interests to humor you and your intolerance for others. The states do what is best for the states when it comes to business matters, and allowing you to blatantly discriminate against certain sectors of the communities would harm the states income. This is why you would be ignored, so go ahead and cry about how you are being "persecuted" for your strange and outdated ancient religious beliefs. Lol! I think it would be hilarious.

Not my beliefs, their beliefs. And your worship of the almighty state is apparent, when the State is the one doing your dirty work.

 

[martybegan]

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

No, they only protect you if you are a member of a protected class. So you can deny service to me due to my political views, unless I can figure out some way to relate it to some protected class.

And only you think someone acting on their morals is "being a jerk"

No I cannot and also, I would not. Businesses are also not allowed to discriminate against a person based upon his or her religious views. God, you really are so stupid. It's unbelievable really.

Actually you could do it, because as a white heterosexual male of indeterminate religious affiliation, you could deny me service because of my views. I said political views. read my statement before responding next time.

Yeah but no. That is not how the law works.

Actually it's how they do. Political views are not a "protected class."

 

[ChrisL]

Actually, yes, problem solved.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Really. Discrimination is a thing of the past. I hadn't realized.

Like you've been told repeatedly, you can still be a jerk in your personal life. You just cannot carry that over into your business dealings in the interest of fairness. If the states have to FORCE you to be fair, then so be it. Your religious intolerance for others is NOT a compelling reason for the state to overturn these anti-discrimination and civil rights laws, especially since they protect ALL of us from discriminatory business practice.

No, they only protect you if you are a member of a protected class. So you can deny service to me due to my political views, unless I can figure out some way to relate it to some protected class.

And only you think someone acting on their morals is "being a jerk"

yeah, you go petition your state to recognize your "religious views" when it comes to business matters. Let's see how far you get. For one thing, it is against the states' best interests to humor you and your intolerance for others. The states do what is best for the states when it comes to business matters, and allowing you to blatantly discriminate against certain sectors of the communities would harm the states income. This is why you would be ignored, so go ahead and cry about how you are being "persecuted" for your strange and outdated ancient religious beliefs. Lol! I think it would be hilarious.

Not my beliefs, their beliefs. And your worship of the almighty state is apparent, when the State is the one doing your dirty work.

I don't worship anything. I'm supporting a law that I think is just. There is no "dirty work." You are the one with the dirty work to do, by denying people (your fellow Americans) access to a store or product. THAT is dirty.