For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers

[Hutch Starskey]

A cake is a freakin' cake. A printer prints many things of varying subjects.

CREAK go the goalposts....

Really? Printing can be anything from a book of baby ducks to hardcore porn.
A cake is a cake. Apples and oranges my friend.

Discrimination is discrimination, denying service is denying service. You want those laws to be that way, then suck it up. Otherwise you are a f%^king hypocrite.

No it's not. I can very easily as a printer say my policy precludes porn, hate , violence, sexuality or whatever. The printer chooses what products he offers. Not the customer. I can't go to a tire store and demand they sell me snow skis and then cry discrimination when they say no.That is not discriminating against the person on the basis of race, gender, religion, or sexual preference.
Get a clue.

"hate" in an integrative concept. Are you saying the religious condemnation of homosexual activity is "hate"

and again, as usual, you twist thing to excuse your bigotry.

Read my freaking post! I didn't say that at all!
Hate like this moron.

 

[martybegan]

And in doing so they trashed the rights of the bakers.

Everyone has a right to be a c* unt, it's the consequences that'll get you.

Having to go out of business via government action over hurt feelings is not a consequence, it's tyranny.

But it's tyranny you agree with, so that somehow makes it OK.

Not gov't action. Their own action.
The gays were the victims. The bakers were the perps.

Nope. the only victim here is freedom, and government is the one trying to squash it.

Just admit you get a stiffy when government screws over people you disagree with.

Their Chisty hubris screwed them.

Bigot.

 

[martybegan]

CREAK go the goalposts....

Really? Printing can be anything from a book of baby ducks to hardcore porn.
A cake is a cake. Apples and oranges my friend.

Discrimination is discrimination, denying service is denying service. You want those laws to be that way, then suck it up. Otherwise you are a f%^king hypocrite.

No it's not. I can very easily as a printer say my policy precludes porn, hate , violence, sexuality or whatever. The printer chooses what products he offers. Not the customer. I can't go to a tire store and demand they sell me snow skis and then cry discrimination when they say no.That is not discriminating against the person on the basis of race, gender, religion, or sexual preference.
Get a clue.

"hate" in an integrative concept. Are you saying the religious condemnation of homosexual activity is "hate"

and again, as usual, you twist thing to excuse your bigotry.

Read my freaking post! I didn't say that at all!

Then just say "no, it's not"

You have hate as a reason a printer could deny printing something.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

"For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers"

I never seen to tire of watching the Left promote awareness of their own profound ignorance. One of the most entertaining examples of that is their inability to avoid the snaring themselves in the paradox intrinsic in the word "BIGOT"; wherein, the use of the word, is a demonstration of Bigotry.

ROFLMNAO! It is LOGIC- GOLD! And it provides a lovely demonstration of Nature's sense of humor.

LOL! Absolutely HYSTERICAL! (In every sense of the word)

 

[Hutch Starskey]

When one side has people who think their world view is the only valid one, THAT is where we get into trouble. It's not all progressives, but some of the more vocal ones just don't want you to be wrong, they want you to be ruined and silenced.

I know it used to be social conservatives back in the "moral majority" days that took that tactic, and they were wrong to do so, but today progressives are the ones trying to stifle free expression, from demands of punishment for guys like the scientist with the 'sexist" shirt (designed by a woman) to the whole "micro-aggression" thing going on in Universities.

Both sides do it pretty much equally. This is not a political trait, it is a human one.

Back to the issue here, I admit I have been torn on the issue. On the one hand, I fully understand the importance for a community to prevent discrimination. On the other, the very same reason I have been a long time supporter of SSM is the reason these laws make me unhappy. I don't think the purpose of government is to tell us how to live our lives. So I have come up with something of a compromise - which I am certain will never be enacted but I'll share anyway.

Rather than prohibiting discrimination - and I mean this across the board - what if we just required people to be up front about it? If a bakery doesn't want make wedding cakes for same sex weddings, have them post a notice in their window so consumers know they can't obtain one there. If a hotel doesn't want to serve black customers, let them post that on their sign so there is no confusion. If a business wishes to discriminate they are free to discriminate, they just have to let people know. If a business does not notify someone up front that their custom is not welcome, then they have to provide their services. Truth in advertising.

Good idea in an ideal world where everyone is honest about their intentions. As you can see by this board alone, that is NOT the case. These people want to be able to be bigots and not be called out on it. Instead, they are the victims of the gays and the government.

You have yet to offer any proof of my bigotry. Try again.

Sorry, but if you think it's your "right" to practice prejudice and bigotry in your business dealings, then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

That's not proof of any bigotry. try again.

The fact that the bakers were fined for doing what you advocate shows clearly.

 

[Dot Com]

Nope, I would have a rule that I don't print hate speech, regardless of the belief of the customer. That would equally apply to everyone. No discrimination.

What if I had a rule that I didn't put two men or two women on a wedding cake and applied that equally to everyone? Would that be discrimination?

No, that is discriminating against gay people. You could have a rule that you make the cake but you don't decorate them. Or, you can have generic cakes that the public can choose and not deviate from those samples.

OR THEY CAN JUST GO TO ANOTHER BAKER

Well they're gonna have to now that yours is out of business. Lol

So, it IS the agenda of the left to shut down Christian owned businesses.

Thank you for openly admitting that.

link?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I wonder if you think people should not be "forced" to serve women and blacks or other minorities too? Sorry, but if you open a business, you must follow the laws put forth by your respective state. You can stomp your feet and whine about it all you want. We are NOT going back to a time when businesses can lock certain segments of the community out.

And you don't see that as forcing your beliefs on others. Please do look up the definition of "bigot".

Bogus. I suppose you think black people and gay people are bigots for wanting equal rights and privileges, when it comes to business matters? Your argument sucks. Face facts. YOU are the bigot for wanting segregated stores!!! You make me want to hurl with your false narratives and bogus excuses.

No. But a black person who thinks a white person is bad just because they are white is certainly a bigot, and a gay person who think someone is bad because they are straight is certainly a bigot. You make broad judgments on people you don't know and apply the label "Christian" as if it were an insult. Which makes you a bigot. Look up the definition of the word. It's about how you react, not what you react to.

Bullshit. You who want segregated businesses are the bigots. That is quite clear. You can continue trying to character assassinate me by calling ME a bigot, but it is laughable.

You want's some nails for for that cross you want to hang yourself on?

Are talking to yourself?

 

[martybegan]

Both sides do it pretty much equally. This is not a political trait, it is a human one.

Back to the issue here, I admit I have been torn on the issue. On the one hand, I fully understand the importance for a community to prevent discrimination. On the other, the very same reason I have been a long time supporter of SSM is the reason these laws make me unhappy. I don't think the purpose of government is to tell us how to live our lives. So I have come up with something of a compromise - which I am certain will never be enacted but I'll share anyway.

Rather than prohibiting discrimination - and I mean this across the board - what if we just required people to be up front about it? If a bakery doesn't want make wedding cakes for same sex weddings, have them post a notice in their window so consumers know they can't obtain one there. If a hotel doesn't want to serve black customers, let them post that on their sign so there is no confusion. If a business wishes to discriminate they are free to discriminate, they just have to let people know. If a business does not notify someone up front that their custom is not welcome, then they have to provide their services. Truth in advertising.

Good idea in an ideal world where everyone is honest about their intentions. As you can see by this board alone, that is NOT the case. These people want to be able to be bigots and not be called out on it. Instead, they are the victims of the gays and the government.

You have yet to offer any proof of my bigotry. Try again.

Sorry, but if you think it's your "right" to practice prejudice and bigotry in your business dealings, then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

That's not proof of any bigotry. try again.

The fact that the bakers were fined for doing what you advocate shows clearly.

appeal to authority isn't debating or proving anything. it would be like saying segregation was right because it "was the law" back in the 60's.

 

[martybegan]

And you don't see that as forcing your beliefs on others. Please do look up the definition of "bigot".

Bogus. I suppose you think black people and gay people are bigots for wanting equal rights and privileges, when it comes to business matters? Your argument sucks. Face facts. YOU are the bigot for wanting segregated stores!!! You make me want to hurl with your false narratives and bogus excuses.

No. But a black person who thinks a white person is bad just because they are white is certainly a bigot, and a gay person who think someone is bad because they are straight is certainly a bigot. You make broad judgments on people you don't know and apply the label "Christian" as if it were an insult. Which makes you a bigot. Look up the definition of the word. It's about how you react, not what you react to.

Bullshit. You who want segregated businesses are the bigots. That is quite clear. You can continue trying to character assassinate me by calling ME a bigot, but it is laughable.

You want's some nails for for that cross you want to hang yourself on?

Are talking to yourself?

Bigot.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Oh yes, in some states political views do count, as does sex and gender, so you are wrong . . . again like usual.

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

If you have a storefront on main street, you are open to the public. The whole public.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Another example. I can refuse to make "specialty" cakes for customers. I can have a book with the cakes I will make. I can refuse to make a specialty cake for anyone, as this does not discriminate against any group of people in particular. However, refusing to even bake a cake, which is the service I provide, to a person because he or she is gay, is discrimination.

Gay cakes are "specialty cakes", problem solved.

What do you imagine a wedding cake looks like? And isn't a birthday cake, a wedding cake, an anniversary cake considered 'specialty' cakes too? Any cake that delivers a special message is a 'specialty' cake.

The ones in my book would have a bride and groom on top. The OP stated there would be a book showing cakes she would make. It wasn't my post, I just responded.

You could simply sell a cake with nothing on top. If the client wants to add it themselves that's fine.

A wedding cake is all about the decorations. A bakery that doesn't decorate a cake isn't selling any.

It can be totally decorated with the exception of the cake topper. I know lots of people who ordered their own topper and have the cake guy put it on.

 

[martybegan]

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

If you have a storefront on main street, you are open to the public. The whole public.

Then stores that run "by appointment only" have to let people in no matter what?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Good idea in an ideal world where everyone is honest about their intentions. As you can see by this board alone, that is NOT the case. These people want to be able to be bigots and not be called out on it. Instead, they are the victims of the gays and the government.

You have yet to offer any proof of my bigotry. Try again.

Sorry, but if you think it's your "right" to practice prejudice and bigotry in your business dealings, then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

That's not proof of any bigotry. try again.

The fact that the bakers were fined for doing what you advocate shows clearly.

appeal to authority isn't debating or proving anything. it would be like saying segregation was right because it "was the law" back in the 60's.

Under the law you would be guilty of discrimination just as the bakers. That is what we are talking about. Not your befuddled sensibilities about the world.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

If you have a storefront on main street, you are open to the public. The whole public.

Then stores that run "by appointment only" have to let people in no matter what?

You could do that maybe. Get all of your appointments on referral. If you advertise though you can't then deny people appointments.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

In fact, I can open up a business that specializes in making signs for churches. That is not discriminatory either. That just happens to be the products I offer at my business.

OK, I'll ask again:

If you are gay and you print billboards for a living, and a Christian customer walked in and asked for you to print them a billboard that says: "Homosexuality is a sin unto God" for a busy highway, would you or would you not be able to deny serving that PARTICULAR request for a billboard based on your principles as a homosexual? Yes or no?

I would think you could reasonably deny that request. I could make it my policy not to portray hateful, sexual, or violent messages on my billboards. That is not discriminating against the individual but their message.

BTW the gay people were the victims not the baker. The gays didn't discriminate by asking for a cake.

Not under the Oregon law you couldn't. That is a religious expression and religion is a protected class.

I'm on the fence. I could see an argument where a gay owner could argue that is hateful to them personally. I can also see the other side. The owner could say maybe they don't post religious or political messages at all to avoid such conflicts. Their product would then be solely product or business advertisement and not religious or political messages. I don't really know. It would be a good case.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

If I open a business, I most certainly am within my right to say that I will not print things that contain hate speech. What I cannot do is refuse to do business with a certain segment of my community. This is really quite simple concept. I cannot understand why you all are having such a difficult time understanding it.

Limiting the services you provide the public is not discrimination. Lol. Refusing to serve a person because he or she is gay, black, or whatever, is discrimination. You may not like it, but that's how it is.

Interesting the distinction allows YOU to decide who to work for yet still letting you think others should be forced to work for people they don't want to work for, unless of course there is a compelling government interest.

I'm sure that quite a few white folks had the same butthurt as you when they found out they must serve blacks. This argument has been settled for decades.

in that situation is was systemic economic discrimination that was government mandated, not a few bakers not wanting to participate in a gay wedding.

And it wouldn't be systemic economic discrimination if we let everyone do it?
The whole point of the law is to prevent such a thing.

 

[PratchettFan]

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

Not true. If you open your business to the public your are a public accommodation. Otherwise, you are a private club.

No one opens a business to the public that is the point. They are open to select individuals who are customers or clients

When you put out the "open" sign you have opened your business to the public. Pretending it is otherwise is pointless.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

Not true. If you open your business to the public your are a public accommodation. Otherwise, you are a private club.

No one opens a business to the public that is the point. They are open to select individuals who are customers or clients

If I walk into your barber shop you can't deny me a haircut because you think I'm gay.
You're simply wrong.

 

[PratchettFan]

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

Not true. If you open your business to the public your are a public accommodation. Otherwise, you are a private club.

That is the loosest definition of a public accommodation, which by federal guidelines, is limited to places people congregate and provide services. The federal guidelines never included contracted businesses, such as bakers providing cakes for events, or photographers as public accommodations.

As a matter of fact, they do include them. As do the states. Hence the baker and the photographer, different states, both having been found to violate the laws.

 

[martybegan]

You have yet to offer any proof of my bigotry. Try again.

Sorry, but if you think it's your "right" to practice prejudice and bigotry in your business dealings, then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

That's not proof of any bigotry. try again.

The fact that the bakers were fined for doing what you advocate shows clearly.

appeal to authority isn't debating or proving anything. it would be like saying segregation was right because it "was the law" back in the 60's.

Under the law you would be guilty of discrimination just as the bakers. That is what we are talking about. Not your befuddled sensibilities about the world.

back in the 60's you wouldn't be. you would have the law on your side. Your appeal to authority, "because it's the law" would support segregation.