For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers

[Soupnazi630]

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

Not true. If you open your business to the public your are a public accommodation. Otherwise, you are a private club.

No one opens a business to the public that is the point. They are open to select individuals who are customers or clients

 

[martybegan]

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

That doesn't answer the question.

Why on earth do you think I would search anything for the likes of you. Do it yourself.

You made the claim, back it up or retract it.

 

[martybegan]

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

Not true. If you open your business to the public your are a public accommodation. Otherwise, you are a private club.

That is the loosest definition of a public accommodation, which by federal guidelines, is limited to places people congregate and provide services. The federal guidelines never included contracted businesses, such as bakers providing cakes for events, or photographers as public accommodations.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

That's right. I can refuse to print words I don't like. What I cannot do is refuse to do business with a person because he or she is gay. I can tell them that I don't provide such products (I can win in a court too, by claiming doing such would hurt my business) and I can show them the products and services that I do offer.

Printers can refuse to print what they don't like. If you bake a cake, you're in big trouble.

A cake is a freakin' cake. A printer prints many things of varying subjects.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Another example. I can refuse to make "specialty" cakes for customers. I can have a book with the cakes I will make. I can refuse to make a specialty cake for anyone, as this does not discriminate against any group of people in particular. However, refusing to even bake a cake, which is the service I provide, to a person because he or she is gay, is discrimination.

Gay cakes are "specialty cakes", problem solved.

What do you imagine a wedding cake looks like? And isn't a birthday cake, a wedding cake, an anniversary cake considered 'specialty' cakes too? Any cake that delivers a special message is a 'specialty' cake.

The ones in my book would have a bride and groom on top. The OP stated there would be a book showing cakes she would make. It wasn't my post, I just responded.

You could simply sell a cake with nothing on top. If the client wants to add it themselves that's fine.

A wedding cake is all about the decorations. A bakery that doesn't decorate a cake isn't selling any.

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

Not true. If you open your business to the public your are a public accommodation. Otherwise, you are a private club.

That is the loosest definition of a public accommodation, which by federal guidelines, is limited to places people congregate and provide services. The federal guidelines never included contracted businesses, such as bakers providing cakes for events, or photographers as public accommodations.

Yes and it is those guidelines which are contradictory and need to be done away with

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I think you are suffering from overt paranoia.

And you suffer from a fascist desire to make people act like you want them to act.

That sounds like a description of yourself and other conservative Christians. The sky is falling because of the gays!!! Lol! I certainly hope most Americans are not as delusional as the people who post on this board.

Not a conservative Christian, a lapsed catholic strict constructional federalist, with libertarian leanings.

Get it right.

who the fuck cares. What you are is a tyrant, wanting everyone to live according to your paranoid religious beliefs.

Having to go to another baker is making them live their life the way I want them to? Making someone actually do something against their moral code is far more invasive.

They could always go down the street and get it from the colored bakery. Lol

 

[martybegan]

And you suffer from a fascist desire to make people act like you want them to act.

That sounds like a description of yourself and other conservative Christians. The sky is falling because of the gays!!! Lol! I certainly hope most Americans are not as delusional as the people who post on this board.

Not a conservative Christian, a lapsed catholic strict constructional federalist, with libertarian leanings.

Get it right.

who the fuck cares. What you are is a tyrant, wanting everyone to live according to your paranoid religious beliefs.

Having to go to another baker is making them live their life the way I want them to? Making someone actually do something against their moral code is far more invasive.

They could always go down the street and get it from the colored bakery. Lol

it is more likely the "colored" baker would not want to participate in a gay wedding than bakers in general.

 

[martybegan]

That's right. I can refuse to print words I don't like. What I cannot do is refuse to do business with a person because he or she is gay. I can tell them that I don't provide such products (I can win in a court too, by claiming doing such would hurt my business) and I can show them the products and services that I do offer.

Printers can refuse to print what they don't like. If you bake a cake, you're in big trouble.

A cake is a freakin' cake. A printer prints many things of varying subjects.

CREAK go the goalposts....

 

[Hutch Starskey]

In a free society that sort of thing is an end result. You don't want a free society, you want a bunch of lemmings following whatever progressive tripe is the current flavor of the month.

whatever, guy.

What i want is to be able to do commerce without being cheated or abused. And I hold myself to that same standard in my business dealings.

The Klein's advertised a service, and the community supported their business. They were in the wrong here both legally and morally.

Would it have been easier to just say, "Fuck it" and go to another vendor? Yeah. Maybe. shit, they could have just left them a shitty Yelp review and left it at that.

But they stood up for hteir rights, and good for them.

The Kleins don't like it, they can go find a line of work their Imaginary Friend approves of.

And in doing so they trashed the rights of the bakers.

Everyone has a right to be a c* unt, it's the consequences that'll get you.

 

[martybegan]

In a free society that sort of thing is an end result. You don't want a free society, you want a bunch of lemmings following whatever progressive tripe is the current flavor of the month.

whatever, guy.

What i want is to be able to do commerce without being cheated or abused. And I hold myself to that same standard in my business dealings.

The Klein's advertised a service, and the community supported their business. They were in the wrong here both legally and morally.

Would it have been easier to just say, "Fuck it" and go to another vendor? Yeah. Maybe. shit, they could have just left them a shitty Yelp review and left it at that.

But they stood up for hteir rights, and good for them.

The Kleins don't like it, they can go find a line of work their Imaginary Friend approves of.

And in doing so they trashed the rights of the bakers.

Everyone has a right to be a c* unt, it's the consequences that'll get you.

Having to go out of business via government action over hurt feelings is not a consequence, it's tyranny.

But it's tyranny you agree with, so that somehow makes it OK.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

That's right. I can refuse to print words I don't like. What I cannot do is refuse to do business with a person because he or she is gay. I can tell them that I don't provide such products (I can win in a court too, by claiming doing such would hurt my business) and I can show them the products and services that I do offer.

Printers can refuse to print what they don't like. If you bake a cake, you're in big trouble.

A cake is a freakin' cake. A printer prints many things of varying subjects.

CREAK go the goalposts....

Really? Printing can be anything from a book of baby ducks to hardcore porn.
A cake is a cake. Apples and oranges my friend.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

In a free society that sort of thing is an end result. You don't want a free society, you want a bunch of lemmings following whatever progressive tripe is the current flavor of the month.

whatever, guy.

What i want is to be able to do commerce without being cheated or abused. And I hold myself to that same standard in my business dealings.

The Klein's advertised a service, and the community supported their business. They were in the wrong here both legally and morally.

Would it have been easier to just say, "Fuck it" and go to another vendor? Yeah. Maybe. shit, they could have just left them a shitty Yelp review and left it at that.

But they stood up for hteir rights, and good for them.

The Kleins don't like it, they can go find a line of work their Imaginary Friend approves of.

And in doing so they trashed the rights of the bakers.

Everyone has a right to be a c* unt, it's the consequences that'll get you.

Having to go out of business via government action over hurt feelings is not a consequence, it's tyranny.

But it's tyranny you agree with, so that somehow makes it OK.

Not gov't action. Their own action.
The gays were the victims. The bakers were the perps.

 

[martybegan]

That's right. I can refuse to print words I don't like. What I cannot do is refuse to do business with a person because he or she is gay. I can tell them that I don't provide such products (I can win in a court too, by claiming doing such would hurt my business) and I can show them the products and services that I do offer.

Printers can refuse to print what they don't like. If you bake a cake, you're in big trouble.

A cake is a freakin' cake. A printer prints many things of varying subjects.

CREAK go the goalposts....

Really? Printing can be anything from a book of baby ducks to hardcore porn.
A cake is a cake. Apples and oranges my friend.

Discrimination is discrimination, denying service is denying service. You want those laws to be that way, then suck it up. Otherwise you are a f%^king hypocrite.

 

[martybegan]

In a free society that sort of thing is an end result. You don't want a free society, you want a bunch of lemmings following whatever progressive tripe is the current flavor of the month.

whatever, guy.

What i want is to be able to do commerce without being cheated or abused. And I hold myself to that same standard in my business dealings.

The Klein's advertised a service, and the community supported their business. They were in the wrong here both legally and morally.

Would it have been easier to just say, "Fuck it" and go to another vendor? Yeah. Maybe. shit, they could have just left them a shitty Yelp review and left it at that.

But they stood up for hteir rights, and good for them.

The Kleins don't like it, they can go find a line of work their Imaginary Friend approves of.

And in doing so they trashed the rights of the bakers.

Everyone has a right to be a c* unt, it's the consequences that'll get you.

Having to go out of business via government action over hurt feelings is not a consequence, it's tyranny.

But it's tyranny you agree with, so that somehow makes it OK.

Not gov't action. Their own action.
The gays were the victims. The bakers were the perps.

Nope. the only victim here is freedom, and government is the one trying to squash it.

Just admit you get a stiffy when government screws over people you disagree with.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Then why does government need to be involved if the community handled it?

Because sometimes the community doesn't. or can't.

The Kleins broke the law. They did this multiple times by their own admission. (This couple was just the first that complained.)

Not seeing why you are having a problem with this, given you wingnuts are happy to send poor black people to prison for life for stealing a slice of Pizza.

Yep. Their stand on personal responsibility being what it is.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

That's right. I can refuse to print words I don't like. What I cannot do is refuse to do business with a person because he or she is gay. I can tell them that I don't provide such products (I can win in a court too, by claiming doing such would hurt my business) and I can show them the products and services that I do offer.

Printers can refuse to print what they don't like. If you bake a cake, you're in big trouble.

A cake is a freakin' cake. A printer prints many things of varying subjects.

CREAK go the goalposts....

Really? Printing can be anything from a book of baby ducks to hardcore porn.
A cake is a cake. Apples and oranges my friend.

Discrimination is discrimination, denying service is denying service. You want those laws to be that way, then suck it up. Otherwise you are a f%^king hypocrite.

No it's not. I can very easily as a printer say my policy precludes porn, hate , violence, sexuality or whatever. The printer chooses what products he offers. Not the customer. I can't go to a tire store and demand they sell me snow skis and then cry discrimination when they say no.That is not discriminating against the person on the basis of race, gender, religion, or sexual preference.
Get a clue.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

whatever, guy.

What i want is to be able to do commerce without being cheated or abused. And I hold myself to that same standard in my business dealings.

The Klein's advertised a service, and the community supported their business. They were in the wrong here both legally and morally.

Would it have been easier to just say, "Fuck it" and go to another vendor? Yeah. Maybe. shit, they could have just left them a shitty Yelp review and left it at that.

But they stood up for hteir rights, and good for them.

The Kleins don't like it, they can go find a line of work their Imaginary Friend approves of.

And in doing so they trashed the rights of the bakers.

Everyone has a right to be a c* unt, it's the consequences that'll get you.

Having to go out of business via government action over hurt feelings is not a consequence, it's tyranny.

But it's tyranny you agree with, so that somehow makes it OK.

Not gov't action. Their own action.
The gays were the victims. The bakers were the perps.

Nope. the only victim here is freedom, and government is the one trying to squash it.

Just admit you get a stiffy when government screws over people you disagree with.

Their Chisty hubris screwed them.

 

[martybegan]

Printers can refuse to print what they don't like. If you bake a cake, you're in big trouble.

A cake is a freakin' cake. A printer prints many things of varying subjects.

CREAK go the goalposts....

Really? Printing can be anything from a book of baby ducks to hardcore porn.
A cake is a cake. Apples and oranges my friend.

Discrimination is discrimination, denying service is denying service. You want those laws to be that way, then suck it up. Otherwise you are a f%^king hypocrite.

No it's not. I can very easily as a printer say my policy precludes porn, hate , violence, sexuality or whatever. The printer chooses what products he offers. Not the customer. I can't go to a tire store and demand they sell me snow skis and then cry discrimination when they say no.That is not discriminating against the person on the basis of race, gender, religion, or sexual preference.
Get a clue.

"hate" in an integrative concept. Are you saying the religious condemnation of homosexual activity is "hate"

and again, as usual, you twist thing to excuse your bigotry.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The thing is, people don't have to believe what you think they should believe. That does not change the validity of their belief.

NO, guy, the problem is they are using a selective reading of their holy book in order to rationalize their bigotry.

That didn't fly 50 years ago when Southern Bigots tried to exclude blacks from their hotels and it doesn't fly now.

All religions use selective readings of their texts to live by.

Religion is flexible that way for the believer.

So even though you may be technically correct there is no reason why a christian cannot selectively interpret their bible to use as a guide for their life.'

It is not about religious technicalities it is about individual rights and freedoms. Chief among these is the individual right to discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic human right regardless of how one discriminates. It is nothing more than the free and peaceful association or disassociation with others based on preference. It harms no one and is no one else business least of all the governments

How well do you suppose our society would function if everyone had the right to discriminate with each using their own religious interpretations to do so ?

It wouldn't.

 

[Ravi]

Oh yes, in some states political views do count, as does sex and gender, so you are wrong . . . again like usual.

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

A baker that offered to bake cakes in any shape is a stupid baker.

Can you show me a PA law that covers political views?

Ask ChrisL, he's the one who said political views are covered.

My bad, I read it wrong.