For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers

[JoeB131]

Because in this case equal access requires trampling on the rights of someone else, and in the case of a non-necessary service that is easily gotten somewhere else, more harm is done by government forcing someone to do something they do not want to, than the harm done by the couple having to find another vendor.

And if the Bigoted Kleins had stopped at just not providing the service, they might have gotten off easily.

Almost Everything You ve Heard About The Anti-Gay Sweet Cakes Wedding Cake Case Is Probably Wrong - The New Civil Rights Movement

Later, the Oregon DOJ sent Cryer's consumer complaint to the Kleins, with a cover letter requesting that they respond to the complainants. It was an attempt to encourage reconciliation.

Instead, Aaron Klein posted the discrimination complaint to Facebook (not taking the precaution of redacting the couple's name and address from the document). "This is what happens when you tell gay people you won't do their 'wedding cake,'" he posted.

The Kleins then took to the news and media. They cozied up to anti-gay hate group Family Research Council, campaigning at appallingly anti-gay hate rallies, for their business' totally-fictional right to discriminate against LGBT people.

After filing the discrimination complaint, the Bowman-Cryers became the victims of death threats — as well as outrageous and horrific claims by conservative media outlets and anti-gay groups.

 

[JoeB131]

being forced to provide a service they don't want to, or face government sanction.

If they don't want to provide that service, they shouldn't be in that business.

 

[Kondor3]

For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers

It is not bigotry to identify and shun sexual deviants and perverts (homosexuals).

Yes, it is.

Automatic gainsay is not a valid counterpoint.

Ok: Bigot: : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

What you just wrote fits that definition perfectly. All you are really saying is that it isn't bigotry if you do it.

Translation: If you Straight Folk who shun LGBT folk stick to your guns and continue to label homosexuals as sexual deviants and perverts, you're a bigot.

Translation: if you Straight Folk who shun LGBT folk stick to your guns and continue to categorize homosexuality as Wickedness and straying from Goodness, you're a bigot.

Translation: If you Straight Folk who shun LGBT folk remain un-changeable and unwavering in your position, then you're a bigot.

Translation: If you Straight Folk who shun LGBT folk don't change your minds and accept our position, then you're a bigot.

Translation: If we don't get our way, then you're a bigot.

Translation: If you continue to oppose us,then you're a bigot.

Phukk that.

 

[Kondor3]

OMG, the gays are ruining my life. They want to be married and they actually EXPECT to be served at stores. My God, the NERVE of those heathens! What an insult to the conservative Christians that they might have to actually serve a gay person!!! Yup, must be the end of the world.

Hardly.

It has a lot more to do with people believing that homosexuality is Evil and Wickedness and that Good People should shun them in all aspects of life.

Including business.

 

[SillyWabbit]

So basically "go in the closet"?

It's all about revenge for people like you.

NO, revenge would be roving bands of gays beating up CHristians and firing Christians from their jobs.

Which no one is calling for or doing.

We are just saying, "If you provide a service, you have to provide it to everyone like the law says."

And if you are going to claim a "religious" exemption, you'd better be following ALL the rules of htat religion, not just the ones you like.

Well, I'm not sure where all this is going, and I'm not necessarily religious. I do know that I like the WHOLE Bible--especially when it's a buttercream Bible.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Arguing that PA laws are beneficial to society and religious beliefs are not a justification for violating such laws is an argument which might well get you somewhere. However, coupling that with vitriol showing contempt for anyone who does not agree with you pretty much nullifies it. The reality is that bigotry exists on both sides of any social issue, as you have shown us.

Yes, I have contempt for people who use bronze age superstitions to rationalize their bigotry.

I have even more contempt for people who don't even know what their superstitions are, but insist they do.

So really, all in or all out. If you want to claim the Bible as a source to rationalize your bigotry, you have to do EVERYTHING it says.

I don't claim the Bible as a source of anything. I could not care less what the Bible says. We are discussing what you are saying, and what you are saying is pure bigotry. Why is your bigotry better than anyone else's bigotry?

It isn't?
Now I'm totally screwed.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Lol, coming from someone who will nick pick a republicans sex life, but will totally over look a sexual predator democrat.

First, the term in "nitpick".

secondly, on the rare occasion Republicans do get laid, I really don't care about it. In fact, if they got laid more often, they wouldn't be such pricks.

Just better trained at using one.

 

[Ravi]

If you have a storefront on main street, you are open to the public. The whole public.

Then stores that run "by appointment only" have to let people in no matter what?

You could do that maybe. Get all of your appointments on referral. If you advertise though you can't then deny people appointments.

What if you advertise you only work Opposite Sex weddings? or only Muslim Weddings?

I'm pretty sure you could advertise that you bake for traditional Christian weddings and you won't have a problem as long as you do only bake for traditional Christian weddings.

Not under the Oregon law.

Links?

 

[Soupnazi630]

The thing is, people don't have to believe what you think they should believe. That does not change the validity of their belief.

NO, guy, the problem is they are using a selective reading of their holy book in order to rationalize their bigotry.

That didn't fly 50 years ago when Southern Bigots tried to exclude blacks from their hotels and it doesn't fly now.

All religions use selective readings of their texts to live by.

Religion is flexible that way for the believer.

So even though you may be technically correct there is no reason why a christian cannot selectively interpret their bible to use as a guide for their life.'

It is not about religious technicalities it is about individual rights and freedoms. Chief among these is the individual right to discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic human right regardless of how one discriminates. It is nothing more than the free and peaceful association or disassociation with others based on preference. It harms no one and is no one else business least of all the governments

How well do you suppose our society would function if everyone had the right to discriminate with each using their own religious interpretations to do so ?

It wouldn't.

Sure it would and does already.

 

[Soupnazi630]

So in those states a Nazi could make a baker bake a swastika cake?

You dumb fuck, how many times do you have to be told. This is NOT about the product supplied, it is about access to the product. Moron. Learn the law. Your ignorance is showing . . . again.

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

If you have a storefront on main street, you are open to the public. The whole public.

Wrong you are only open to customers who by definition are select individuals

 

[Soupnazi630]

A baker advertises "I make cakes of any shape!" and he is Jewish.

Nazi asked for a swastika shaped cake and jewish baker refuses because it offends him.

If political views are protected, why can the jewish baker deny the service?

Again it is not about denying performing a service that you find distasteful. You can still maintain control of your product. The issue at hand is access to the product. You cannot deny a certain segment of the community access to your product if you are running a business. Period and end of story.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that private businesses provide anything.

They engage in trade they are not public accomodations

Not true. If you open your business to the public your are a public accommodation. Otherwise, you are a private club.

No one opens a business to the public that is the point. They are open to select individuals who are customers or clients

When you put out the "open" sign you have opened your business to the public. Pretending it is otherwise is pointless.

Wrong it is not pretense it is fact you are only open to select individuals

 

[Soupnazi630]

If you have a storefront on main street, you are open to the public. The whole public.

Then stores that run "by appointment only" have to let people in no matter what?

You could do that maybe. Get all of your appointments on referral. If you advertise though you can't then deny people appointments.

What if you advertise you only work Opposite Sex weddings? or only Muslim Weddings?

I'm pretty sure you could advertise that you bake for traditional Christian weddings and you won't have a problem as long as you do only bake for traditional Christian weddings.

Not under the Oregon law.

Yes a contradictory and discriminatory law

 

[Soupnazi630]

It is not about religious technicalities it is about individual rights and freedoms. Chief among these is the individual right to discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic human right regardless of how one discriminates. It is nothing more than the free and peaceful association or disassociation with others based on preference. It harms no one and is no one else business least of all the governments

We aren't talking about an individual right to discrimination. We are talking about a business's right to discrimination. Businesses aren't people.

We are talking about individual right to discrimination.

Businesses have no rights only individuals do and businesses are owned by individuals.

A thing cannot discriminate and a business is a thing you are in fact talking about individual rights.

The right of every person to discriminate is sacred except for select minority individuals who this law discriminates against by denying the rights which everyone else enjoys

 

[Skylar]

It is not about religious technicalities it is about individual rights and freedoms. Chief among these is the individual right to discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic human right regardless of how one discriminates. It is nothing more than the free and peaceful association or disassociation with others based on preference. It harms no one and is no one else business least of all the governments

We aren't talking about an individual right to discrimination. We are talking about a business's right to discrimination. Businesses aren't people.

We are talking about individual right to discrimination.

Businesses have no rights only individuals do and businesses are owned by individuals.

A thing cannot discriminate and a business is a thing you are in fact talking about individual rights.

The right of every person to discriminate is sacred except for select minority individuals who this law discriminates against by denying the rights which everyone else enjoys

So segregation now, segregation forever? As you seem to not only support discrimination against say, black folks.....but consider such bigotry 'sacred'.

 

[hazlnut]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

The thing is, people don't have to believe what you think they should believe. That does not change the validity of their belief.

You miss the point - the so-called "christians" pick and choose their beliefs based on their own fears.

 

[Soupnazi630]

It is not about religious technicalities it is about individual rights and freedoms. Chief among these is the individual right to discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic human right regardless of how one discriminates. It is nothing more than the free and peaceful association or disassociation with others based on preference. It harms no one and is no one else business least of all the governments

We aren't talking about an individual right to discrimination. We are talking about a business's right to discrimination. Businesses aren't people.

We are talking about individual right to discrimination.

Businesses have no rights only individuals do and businesses are owned by individuals.

A thing cannot discriminate and a business is a thing you are in fact talking about individual rights.

The right of every person to discriminate is sacred except for select minority individuals who this law discriminates against by denying the rights which everyone else enjoys

So segregation now, segregation forever? As you seem to not only support discrimination against say, black folks.....but consider such bigotry 'sacred'.

I do not consider it sacred it is sacred.

I am strictly referring to private discrimination and segregation which we all practice you included

 

[Skylar]

It is not about religious technicalities it is about individual rights and freedoms. Chief among these is the individual right to discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic human right regardless of how one discriminates. It is nothing more than the free and peaceful association or disassociation with others based on preference. It harms no one and is no one else business least of all the governments

We aren't talking about an individual right to discrimination. We are talking about a business's right to discrimination. Businesses aren't people.

We are talking about individual right to discrimination.

Businesses have no rights only individuals do and businesses are owned by individuals.

A thing cannot discriminate and a business is a thing you are in fact talking about individual rights.

The right of every person to discriminate is sacred except for select minority individuals who this law discriminates against by denying the rights which everyone else enjoys

So segregation now, segregation forever? As you seem to not only support discrimination against say, black folks.....but consider such bigotry 'sacred'.

I do not consider it sacred it is sacred.

Discrimination against black people is sacred....according to who?

 

[Soupnazi630]

It is not about religious technicalities it is about individual rights and freedoms. Chief among these is the individual right to discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic human right regardless of how one discriminates. It is nothing more than the free and peaceful association or disassociation with others based on preference. It harms no one and is no one else business least of all the governments

We aren't talking about an individual right to discrimination. We are talking about a business's right to discrimination. Businesses aren't people.

We are talking about individual right to discrimination.

Businesses have no rights only individuals do and businesses are owned by individuals.

A thing cannot discriminate and a business is a thing you are in fact talking about individual rights.

The right of every person to discriminate is sacred except for select minority individuals who this law discriminates against by denying the rights which everyone else enjoys

So segregation now, segregation forever? As you seem to not only support discrimination against say, black folks.....but consider such bigotry 'sacred'.

I do not consider it sacred it is sacred.

Discrimination against black people is sacred....according to who?

Against anyone for any personal preference.

It is the most basic and crucial of all human rights

 

[Skylar]

We aren't talking about an individual right to discrimination. We are talking about a business's right to discrimination. Businesses aren't people.

We are talking about individual right to discrimination.

Businesses have no rights only individuals do and businesses are owned by individuals.

A thing cannot discriminate and a business is a thing you are in fact talking about individual rights.

The right of every person to discriminate is sacred except for select minority individuals who this law discriminates against by denying the rights which everyone else enjoys

So segregation now, segregation forever? As you seem to not only support discrimination against say, black folks.....but consider such bigotry 'sacred'.

I do not consider it sacred it is sacred.

Discrimination against black people is sacred....according to who?

Against anyone for any personal preference.

I have a personal preference. And I don't think discrimination against black people is sacred.

Maybe 'anyone' doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[Soupnazi630]

I mean it precisely as it is defined.

Any exercise of personal preference is a basic human right and harmless regardless of the specific type of preference.