Kalam
Senior Member
- Mar 5, 2009
- 8,866
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Define 'trust' and 'confidence'...![]()
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Doncha just LOVE language and words?
-Joe
Trust - have confidence or faith in
Confidence - a feeling of trust (in someone or something)
![eusa_whistle :eusa_whistle: :eusa_whistle:](/styles/smilies/eusa_whistle.gif)
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Define 'trust' and 'confidence'...![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Doncha just LOVE language and words?
-Joe
*shrug*Let me ask you this, if the USDA inspectors, the department of transportation, or anyone else on the list were accused of wrongdoing would you.
A. Immediately assume the allegations were false and that they did nothing wrong (no matter what the charges)
or
B. See how the allegations play out
If you selected A, that's unreasonable faith (In my opinion at least).
It depends on how much faith I have in the accusers and their accusations! Are they Republicans on a corporate payroll or Democrats in bed with a lobbyist?
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-Joe
It doesn't matter, if your answer is A no matter who makes the accusations or what they are then you have too much faith.
*shrug*It depends on how much faith I have in the accusers and their accusations! Are they Republicans on a corporate payroll or Democrats in bed with a lobbyist?
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-Joe
It doesn't matter, if your answer is A no matter who makes the accusations or what they are then you have too much faith.
In all seriousness, in my humble opinion faith in others, including bureaucrats and politicians, is warranted and not 'too much' so long as they know you have faith in them and they try their hardest not to let you down.
This is why I've lost my faith in the God of The Bible - I feel like he 'let down' my Native American ancestors even as he was blessing my European ancestors; ergo He must be the God of the Europeans and not of this world.
There has to be more to the Spirit Realm. There just has to be.
-Joe
*shrug*
It doesn't matter, if your answer is A no matter who makes the accusations or what they are then you have too much faith.
In all seriousness, in my humble opinion faith in others, including bureaucrats and politicians, is warranted and not 'too much' so long as they know you have faith in them and they try their hardest not to let you down.
This is why I've lost my faith in the God of The Bible - I feel like he 'let down' my Native American ancestors even as he was blessing my European ancestors; ergo He must be the God of the Europeans and not of this world.
There has to be more to the Spirit Realm. There just has to be.
-Joe
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
You are not alone... There is enough evidence out there for this average Joe to be convinced that there is something to the spiritual realm. My only advice (for what it's worth) is don't look for proof. Death seems to be the great equalizer and the one dude who is claimed to have defeated it left us a pretty mixed up message regarding what's up.
I hope there is an 'after-life' and I hope I recognize you when we get there, bro'.
-Joe
In all seriousness, in my humble opinion faith in others, including bureaucrats and politicians, is warranted and not 'too much' so long as they know you have faith in them and they try their hardest not to let you down.
This is why I've lost my faith in the God of The Bible - I feel like he 'let down' my Native American ancestors even as he was blessing my European ancestors; ergo He must be the God of the Europeans and not of this world.
There has to be more to the Spirit Realm. There just has to be.
-Joe
In all seriousness, in my humble opinion faith in others, including bureaucrats and politicians, is warranted and not 'too much' so long as they know you have faith in them and they try their hardest not to let you down.
This is why I've lost my faith in the God of The Bible - I feel like he 'let down' my Native American ancestors even as he was blessing my European ancestors; ergo He must be the God of the Europeans and not of this world.
There has to be more to the Spirit Realm. There just has to be.
-Joe
I have to ask, how did he let down your N.A ancesters whilie blessing your E. ancestors?
Roe vs Wade hasn't been overturned, so right there is legislation proving just the opposite of what you are talking about. Not only that, it's not a religious or 'faith' issue, it's a moral issue.
That's what religious people keep saying: Its a moral issue. Well, for me, its moral for a woman to choose. Why? Because undeveloped fetuses don't have a soul. They aren't self-aware, they aren't sentient, and its better to abort than bring unwanted children into the world. Its an overpopulated place as it is.
And the religious right has overturned Roe v. Wade in North Dakota. And threaten to overturn in nationally. My girlfriend's, female friends', and female family members' right to choose is threatened by the religious right.
Tax exemption? Big deal, take the tax exemption away and let the community churches get involved in politics. I see that more as a way to curtail their involvement and control them rather than doing them a favor.
But it shows a symbolic favoring by the government which may be hard for you to understand, but like you said, you're in the majority.
So are black people, but a black man was just elected. It doesn't matter if they are a minority, it has to do with religious people unwilling to elect someone who is either of a different faith or who isn't religious.
What has that to do with tolerance?
Legal holidays wasn't all I came up with. Did you read my post? That was just one item that I listed. There are many other ways that Christianity is the ruling religion of the US, a place where no religion should be officially favored.
Homosexual marriage is the big one I came up with. Tell me how the Christian faith isn't legislated again?
Wrong. I don't care of if I don't belong with the religious majority, Newby. Try psychoanalyzing someone else.
I asked you earlier how your being gay has biased you against religion and the christian religion in general, but you never addressed it.
When did you ever ask me this? I'm straight. But I would say that homosexuals are biased against religion, particularly the Christian religion, because they are considered evil by its adherents. Seems pretty simple to me!
I don't think that your lack of understanding about faith is because it isn't logical, I think it has more to do with not being accepted by said group and even what you perceive to be ostrasized by said group because of your homosexuality.
Once again, what the hell are you talking about? I don't want to be a Christian, I don't care if I'm accepted by Christians because I'm an agnostic, and I'm straight. I have lots of agnostic and atheist friends. My whole family is agnostic. My gay friends are agnostic. My girlfriend is a reformed Christian. We talk about this stuff. She doesn't feel like I do about Christianity, though she admits that those who adhere to religious faith exercise circular logic (Christianity is right because it is. The Bible is true because it says so. You have to have faith to believe.) or that they skirt the issue (God works in mysterious ways. Man can't know the mind of God.)
Can you explain why faith is logical, there Freud?
They're hypocrits, plain and simple. The very things that they gripe about in the dominant culture is the very same thing they do, but they see their behavior as altruistic somehow because they are in the minority. Somehow being in the minority makes you a better person than everyone else because you can get away with many things that the dominant culture cannot.
Did you read what I wrote. It wasn't an attack. It was a way for people to question their beliefs. What's wrong with that?!
And what is all this blabber about majority and minority? Where do you get this stuff? Where did I ever claim that I was better than anyone? Where did I write that those who believe are inferior? In fact, if you read my posts you'll see where I wrote that those who believe aren't inferior.
Is this how you take in infortmation: selectively so that all you learn really only backs-up all you want to know?
And that's a very telling point on his part, because his beef obviously isn't with religion in general, but specifically the christian religion. I believe that is for reasons that I stated above, but who knows, there could be many reasons.
Would you honestly vote for a Muslim or an atheist, Newby? Honestly.
And not just Christians.
Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers?
I can try. Dont know if youll be satisfied.
And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer. Who knows? Maybe you'll just make a believer outta somebody.
Possibly.
How can you believe in something, but not believe in it? Im not sure thats possible.
Of course, if you don't believe then you won't go to heaven. Mostly because you have to be able to believe before you can make the changes in your life and seek the Divine changes necessary to withstand heaven.
Granted, you also have to remember, not every faith believes in the heaven/hell type scenario found in Modern Christian.
That's not something I can answer for you. I can tell you why I choose to believe. I choose to believe because I've experienced the power/joy/love/glory of God. If I denied it, I''d be lying to myself. I dont want to lie to myself or others.
Interesting question. This is one I can answer citing scripture:
I should also add the warning later on in the chapter:
Ill even sum it up for you:
You can develop faith by experimenting. Testing it out. Try having faith. Do everything that entails it. If you want to know whether God exists, pray to Him. It's what I did. I didn't know whether God existed. I believed it was possible. But I didnt know for sure. So I decided I wanted to find out and i exercised faith. I reasoned it out with myself. I dont know if God lives, but if He does and if He is all powerful He can find a way to reveal to me that He does exist.
And I told the Lord if He would reveal the truth of it to me, I would follow Him. I was ready not only to believe, but to act on the belief.
I asked God whether it was and His Spirit testified to me that it was true.
Why do you believe?
It's true. It's light. It expands the mind. It brings things clearly into view. It expands my capacity to love, to think, to become. I wouldnt be nearly the man I am today if I didnt have faith.
Explain faith.
Not really a question, but faith is a belief in things which are unseen but which are true. Faith is more than just belief, it's an active belief. It's a principle of power that provides the individual with the ability to grow, act, change, and achieve.
Through faith the worlds were created. Through Faith the sick have been healed. Through faith miracles have been wrought. I've seen it myself.
Faith can turn the most pathetic worthless life into someone with confidence, strength, and power. It can turn a sinner into a Saint.
Faith in Jesus Christ is the foundation of the Gospel. It's the principle in which all others derive.
Newby I think you missed the entire original point of this thread. You are currently attacking a man who didn't insinuate that religion is without logic but rather said he was struggling with the idea of faith and religion. He asked people of EVERY religion to post information about their religion and their faith.
Colorado please don't be mad at me for the following statement.
Think of a child in the beginnings of life. Everything is new and without validation. Something that, to you, seems as sure as the sun rising the next morning to them is the subject of the question why. Someone new to faith is as innocent in that faith as a child because everything is subject to question. They need affirmation, comfort, understanding, and above all patience.
Matthew 5:11-12
God bless you when you are mocked and persecuted and lied about because you are my followers. Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted, too.
Matthew 5:38-42
You have heard the law of Moses says, 'If the eye is injured, injure the eye of the person who did it. If a tooth gets knocked out, knock out the tooth of the person who did it.' But I say, don't resist an evil person! If you are slapped on the right cheek, turn the other, too. If you are ordered to court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too. If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. Give to those who ask, and don't turn away from those who want to borrow.
Matthew 5: 43-48
You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'Love your neighbor' and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for thsoe who persecute you! In that way you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and on the unjust, too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
These are words from Jesus himself. From that famous speech on a mountain top to the masses of those who came to listen. I also firmly believe these words have sadly been lost to most in the recent days. The board here is a prime example of that. You have the faithful screaming at those who would question? I would rather take the time to try and understand, to support, to open myself up because nothing anyone here could say would take my faith from me.
YouTube - Introduction to the Bible by Chuck Missler Part 1
YouTube - Chuck Missler - Introduction to the Bible Part 2
YouTube - Chuck Missler - Introduction to the Bible Part 3
YouTube - Chuck Missler - Introduction to the Bible Part 4
YouTube - Chuck Missler - Introduction to the Bible Part 5
YouTube - Chuck Missler - Introduction to the Bible Part 6
For those of you who are interested in hearing about the Bible in a way that you might not have heard before I would suggest listening to teachers like the one I linked above. Missler has become a bit of a phenomenom because he is a VERY well educated human being who sees the Bible as truth and as a scientific tool.
He just happens to be my favorite teacher thus far because he reminds me of a Rabbi, searching for truth by intelligent means, not merely taking what is given to them. Did those of you who are without faith realize that? That Christian and Jewish leaders are constantly questioning? Constantly searching for truth? With new scientific advances they go back to their Bible or Torah and question every word and phrase again.
I didn't know that until recently myself. I believed that God was myth and religion was just a way to herd the mindless masses. Look at what the Catholic church did during the Middle Ages. People paid their way into heaven, there was no salvation but that which the church gave to you until a monk named Martin Luther questioned the establishment based off of what he read in the Bible and understood in the texts.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
You have to be kidding me?! You don't know about the atrocities, the massacres, the small pox in the blankets, the TRAIL OF TEARS! for God's sake! Don't you know what life can be like on some of these reservations even today?
Are you really that nationalistic and ethnocentric Sheila?
I am glad to see you're open minded about this Colordomtnman!
Someone once said to me, building faith in those who don't have it is like building a house, brick by brick. You've just started your house, with your first brick. It may take years to finish the house, if it gets done at all, but you're on your way somehow!
And with the housing market the way it is today, who's to turn down a free house?![]()
You are actively challenging anyone with belief to show the logic in their belief. You are insinuating clearly that there is no logic or rational thinking in having faith, thereby insinuating that those who do have faith are apparently not thinking rationally or logically, i.e. they are STUPID. You can say that you're not insulting all you want, but that is clearly your intension.
And if a christian came up to you and started preaching to you and asking you about your faith, you could scream that they are trying to force their views on you, so why is it okay for you to bring up the topic as 'a way for people to question their beliefs'? Why do you care? Why are you trying to force your point of view on others?
Open minded? This same person who attacked his sister in law for saying a prayer at his mother's funeral?
Open minded? This same person who attacked his sister in law for saying a prayer at his mother's funeral?
Read the whole thread Sheila, and then tell me I'm being close-minded.
And I didn't attack my aunt, not my sister-in-law, at my grandmother's, not my mother's, funeral. I thought she demonstrated a lot of disrespect and self-righteousness in insisting on praying and telling us that our agnostic grandmother was in Heaven although my agnostic grandmother never believed in Jesus Christ or the Bible or the Christian God. I didn't say anything to her when she preached, I just thought to myself that she had a lot of gall. As my aunt knows, my grandmother's sons, my aunt's husband, and most of the family are either agnostics or atheists. We respected my grandmother's wishes not to have any religions ceremonies or religious rituals at her wake and funeral. My aunt, who believes her religion is the right one and that it therefore supercedes someone personal request, took it upon herself to ignore my grandmother's dying wishes. If this was how she dealt with her sorrow, then she could've prayed in private.
What if a Muslim or a Satanist were to openly prosyletize at a funeral for one of your family members that was held in a clearly Christian tradition? Wouldn't you consider that disrespectful?