Franklin Delano Roosevelt

[MikeK]

Perhaps the greatest villain in US history.

If you feel this way because of your Japanese lineage it is understandable. But if the situation were reversed, if you were gy jin, a caucasian living in Japan at the same time period, and the Americans, your ethnic fellows, conducted a sneak attack on your adopted country, killing thousands of its native asian citizens, how do you think you would have been treated? Keeping mind the Japanese of that era were extraordinarily exclusive, ethnically discriminating and intolerant of foreigners.

As mentioned previously, In 1941 the U.S. had not yet outgrown its racial separatist (Jim Crow) orientation. In Jean Smith's excellent biography, entitled FDR, she explains that his decision to inter Japanese Americans was in response to the national mood, which was defensively suspicious.

Today's America would not respond in the same way as it did in the early 1940s. Whether or not that is a good thing is up for debate about whose best interests are under consideration.

 

[MikeK]

So who meddled with the economy? The Republicans were in office 12 years before FDR was elected, and the depression was already three years old when FDR took office. So who meddled with the economy?
As for regulating business, FDR tried to allow some business to regulate their own business and it was a disaster.

FDR entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the United States. True, Germany only wanted Europe and Japan only wanted Asia, and maybe it was wrong for America to not supply the oil so Japan could be successful.

FDR's reason for denying Japan access to the oil was his wisdom in recognizing the inevitable. Both Hirohito and Hitler were ambitious conquerors in the historic tradition.

Hirohito was not satisfied with plundering the Far East but was focused on China. Hitler had subjugated all of Europe and was aiming at England. When those two ambitious conquerors formed an alliance it didn't call for exceptional political acumen to realize that Australia and the U.S. were on the menu.

Conquerors are inherently similar to ambitious wealth accumulators. They are motivated by pathological greed and they are never satisfied. FDR realized the inevitable consequence of ignoring the obvious and emulating the hopeful naivete of England's Neville Chamberlain, so he did what had to be done and we have cause to be thankful for his actions.

 

[MikeK]

America and Western Europe owe so much to FDR

One of the great men of the century

So true.

At the bottom line, what most politicians lack is what FDR had in abundance, which is stubbornly persistent, uncompromising political courage. He did what he believed was best, not for him but for the Country.

If that seems corny it's because in most examples when something along those lines is said it's fanciful bullshit. But in FDR's example it's the simple truth.

 

[gipper]

Perhaps the greatest villain in US history.

If you feel this way because of your Japanese lineage it is understandable. But if the situation were reversed, if you were gy jin, a caucasian living in Japan at the same time period, and the Americans, your ethnic fellows, conducted a sneak attack on your adopted country, killing thousands of its native asian citizens, how do you think you would have been treated? Keeping mind the Japanese of that era were extraordinarily exclusive, ethnically discriminating and intolerant of foreigners.

As mentioned previously, In 1941 the U.S. had not yet outgrown its racial separatist (Jim Crow) orientation. In Jean Smith's excellent biography, entitled FDR, she explains that his decision to inter Japanese Americans was in response to the national mood, which was defensively suspicious.

Today's America would not respond in the same way as it did in the early 1940s. Whether or not that is a good thing is up for debate about whose best interests are under consideration.

Yeah that's leadership for you. FDR just went along with the crowd.

FDR apologists are truly amazing dupes.

 

[gipper]

What researched have you conducted to rebut/refute my allegations?


Supreme Court Justice James Clark McReynolds wrote a dissent in the Gold Clause Cases:

• Norman v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co.
• United States v. Bankers Trust Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935)
• Nortz v. United States, 294 U.S. 317 (1935)
• Perry v. United States, 294 U.S. 330 (1935)

Find his opinion, if you can not find his opinion WHY was it suppressed, censored?

After FDR threatened to abolish the SCOTUS then SCOTUS reversed itself and succumbed to his wishes to create a fascist welfare/warfare police state.

And the truth shall set you free..

The best definition of stupidity is unwillingness to see and to understand that which is right before one's eyes.

When FDR assumed Office the U.S. was in the grip of a ruinous economic depression and was confronted by two massively powerful, increasingly militaristic countries whose combined objective was world domination. As the direct result of FDR's political actions and controversial economic policies we overcame the imposing menace of advancing fascism and then gave rise to the Great American Middle Class.

We did these two incredibly difficult things by following the policies and practices laid out by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The results of his efforts are right before your eyes.

But there are none so blind as they who will not see.

Bullshit

There was a "ruinous economic depression " because of the federal government meddling with the economy . Firstly, through the Federal Reserve Board and secondly through massive regiulation of businesses. His job was merely to abolish that institution and all economic impediments.

There is NO evidence that the Axis sought world domination or that they threatened the US.

FDR wanted to enter WWII to assist the UK. He provoked Hirohito into attacking the US.
QUOTE].[/
So who meddled with the economy? The Republicans were in office 12 years before FDR was elected, and the depression was already three years old when FDR took office. So who meddled with the economy?
As for regulating business, FDR tried to allow some business to regulate their own business and it was a disaster.
FDR entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the United States. True, Germany only wanted Europe and Japan only wanted Asia, and maybe it was wrong for America to not supply the oil so Japan could be successful.

FDR's legacy is a good example of how easy it is for the State to delude and mislead Americans. He is easily one of our worst presidents, yet millions of Americans are duped into believing otherwise by the State. Yes he did some good but the bad so far outweighs the good, that any objective minded person who researches his actions, must conclude him terrible.

 

[regent]

So that's the problem, the historians that have rated FDR, greatest American president, have not researched FDR's actions objectively. Wonder why people, including historians are not willing to do FDR-research objectively, as you probably have? And what of the people that voted for him four times, duped too?

 

[Contumacious]

What researched have you conducted to rebut/refute my allegations?


Supreme Court Justice James Clark McReynolds wrote a dissent in the Gold Clause Cases:

• Norman v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co.
• United States v. Bankers Trust Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935)
• Nortz v. United States, 294 U.S. 317 (1935)
• Perry v. United States, 294 U.S. 330 (1935)

Find his opinion, if you can not find his opinion WHY was it suppressed, censored?

After FDR threatened to abolish the SCOTUS then SCOTUS reversed itself and succumbed to his wishes to create a fascist welfare/warfare police state.

And the truth shall set you free..

The best definition of stupidity is unwillingness to see and to understand that which is right before one's eyes.

When FDR assumed Office the U.S. was in the grip of a ruinous economic depression and was confronted by two massively powerful, increasingly militaristic countries whose combined objective was world domination. As the direct result of FDR's political actions and controversial economic policies we overcame the imposing menace of advancing fascism and then gave rise to the Great American Middle Class.

We did these two incredibly difficult things by following the policies and practices laid out by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The results of his efforts are right before your eyes.

But there are none so blind as they who will not see.

Bullshit

There was a "ruinous economic depression " because of the federal government meddling with the economy . Firstly, through the Federal Reserve Board and secondly through massive regiulation of businesses. His job was merely to abolish that institution and all economic impediments.

There is NO evidence that the Axis sought world domination or that they threatened the US.

FDR wanted to enter WWII to assist the UK. He provoked Hirohito into attacking the US.
QUOTE].[/
So who meddled with the economy? The Republicans were in office 12 years before FDR was elected, and the depression was already three years old when FDR took office. So who meddled with the economy?
As for regulating business, FDR tried to allow some business to regulate their own business and it was a disaster.
FDR entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the United States. True, Germany only wanted Europe and Japan only wanted Asia, and maybe it was wrong for America to not supply the oil so Japan could be successful.

FEDGOV had enacted the Federal Reserve Act - that should have been abolished
FEDGOV had "enacted" the 16th Amendment - that should have been abolished -

Businesses were NOT regulated by the government prior to 1913 - so what "disaster" are you referring to?

Hitler declared War on the US AFTER FDR manipulated Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor.

 

[regent]

What researched have you conducted to rebut/refute my allegations?


Supreme Court Justice James Clark McReynolds wrote a dissent in the Gold Clause Cases:

• Norman v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co.
• United States v. Bankers Trust Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935)
• Nortz v. United States, 294 U.S. 317 (1935)
• Perry v. United States, 294 U.S. 330 (1935)

Find his opinion, if you can not find his opinion WHY was it suppressed, censored?

After FDR threatened to abolish the SCOTUS then SCOTUS reversed itself and succumbed to his wishes to create a fascist welfare/warfare police state.

And the truth shall set you free..

The best definition of stupidity is unwillingness to see and to understand that which is right before one's eyes.

When FDR assumed Office the U.S. was in the grip of a ruinous economic depression and was confronted by two massively powerful, increasingly militaristic countries whose combined objective was world domination. As the direct result of FDR's political actions and controversial economic policies we overcame the imposing menace of advancing fascism and then gave rise to the Great American Middle Class.

We did these two incredibly difficult things by following the policies and practices laid out by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The results of his efforts are right before your eyes.

But there are none so blind as they who will not see.

Bullshit

There was a "ruinous economic depression " because of the federal government meddling with the economy . Firstly, through the Federal Reserve Board and secondly through massive regiulation of businesses. His job was merely to abolish that institution and all economic impediments.

There is NO evidence that the Axis sought world domination or that they threatened the US.

FDR wanted to enter WWII to assist the UK. He provoked Hirohito into attacking the US.
QUOTE].[/
So who meddled with the economy? The Republicans were in office 12 years before FDR was elected, and the depression was already three years old when FDR took office. So who meddled with the economy?
As for regulating business, FDR tried to allow some business to regulate their own business and it was a disaster.
FDR entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the United States. True, Germany only wanted Europe and Japan only wanted Asia, and maybe it was wrong for America to not supply the oil so Japan could be successful.

FEDGOV had enacted the Federal Reserve Act - that should have been abolished
FEDGOV had "enacted" the 16th Amendment - that should have been abolished -

Businesses were NOT regulated by the government prior to 1913 - so what "disaster" are you referring to?

Hitler declared War on the US AFTER FDR manipulated Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor.

 

[regent]

Well first, businesses were regulated prior to FDR.

 

[Camp]

What researched have you conducted to rebut/refute my allegations?


Supreme Court Justice James Clark McReynolds wrote a dissent in the Gold Clause Cases:

• Norman v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co.
• United States v. Bankers Trust Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935)
• Nortz v. United States, 294 U.S. 317 (1935)
• Perry v. United States, 294 U.S. 330 (1935)

Find his opinion, if you can not find his opinion WHY was it suppressed, censored?

After FDR threatened to abolish the SCOTUS then SCOTUS reversed itself and succumbed to his wishes to create a fascist welfare/warfare police state.

And the truth shall set you free..

The best definition of stupidity is unwillingness to see and to understand that which is right before one's eyes.

When FDR assumed Office the U.S. was in the grip of a ruinous economic depression and was confronted by two massively powerful, increasingly militaristic countries whose combined objective was world domination. As the direct result of FDR's political actions and controversial economic policies we overcame the imposing menace of advancing fascism and then gave rise to the Great American Middle Class.

We did these two incredibly difficult things by following the policies and practices laid out by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The results of his efforts are right before your eyes.

But there are none so blind as they who will not see.

Bullshit

There was a "ruinous economic depression " because of the federal government meddling with the economy . Firstly, through the Federal Reserve Board and secondly through massive regiulation of businesses. His job was merely to abolish that institution and all economic impediments.

There is NO evidence that the Axis sought world domination or that they threatened the US.

FDR wanted to enter WWII to assist the UK. He provoked Hirohito into attacking the US.
QUOTE].[/
So who meddled with the economy? The Republicans were in office 12 years before FDR was elected, and the depression was already three years old when FDR took office. So who meddled with the economy?
As for regulating business, FDR tried to allow some business to regulate their own business and it was a disaster.
FDR entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the United States. True, Germany only wanted Europe and Japan only wanted Asia, and maybe it was wrong for America to not supply the oil so Japan could be successful.

FEDGOV had enacted the Federal Reserve Act - that should have been abolished
FEDGOV had "enacted" the 16th Amendment - that should have been abolished -

Businesses were NOT regulated by the government prior to 1913 - so what "disaster" are you referring to?

Hitler declared War on the US AFTER FDR manipulated Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor.

FDR did not manipulate Japan into expansionism, the invasion of China, a treaty with Hitler or the Rape of Nanking with its horrendous war atrocities. Continuing trade and facilitating the conduct of Japan was viewed as immoral as well as militarily foolish because it was empowering a nation that was predicted to be an enemy at some point.

 

[Unkotare]

So that's the problem, the historians that have rated FDR, greatest American president, have not researched FDR's actions objectively. Wonder why people, including historians are not willing to do FDR-research objectively, as you probably have? And what of the people that voted for him four times, duped too?

Fallacy again

 

[Contumacious]

What researched have you conducted to rebut/refute my allegations?


Supreme Court Justice James Clark McReynolds wrote a dissent in the Gold Clause Cases:

• Norman v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co.
• United States v. Bankers Trust Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935)
• Nortz v. United States, 294 U.S. 317 (1935)
• Perry v. United States, 294 U.S. 330 (1935)

Find his opinion, if you can not find his opinion WHY was it suppressed, censored?

After FDR threatened to abolish the SCOTUS then SCOTUS reversed itself and succumbed to his wishes to create a fascist welfare/warfare police state.

And the truth shall set you free..

The best definition of stupidity is unwillingness to see and to understand that which is right before one's eyes.

When FDR assumed Office the U.S. was in the grip of a ruinous economic depression and was confronted by two massively powerful, increasingly militaristic countries whose combined objective was world domination. As the direct result of FDR's political actions and controversial economic policies we overcame the imposing menace of advancing fascism and then gave rise to the Great American Middle Class.

We did these two incredibly difficult things by following the policies and practices laid out by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The results of his efforts are right before your eyes.

But there are none so blind as they who will not see.

Bullshit

There was a "ruinous economic depression " because of the federal government meddling with the economy . Firstly, through the Federal Reserve Board and secondly through massive regiulation of businesses. His job was merely to abolish that institution and all economic impediments.

There is NO evidence that the Axis sought world domination or that they threatened the US.

FDR wanted to enter WWII to assist the UK. He provoked Hirohito into attacking the US.
QUOTE].[/
So who meddled with the economy? The Republicans were in office 12 years before FDR was elected, and the depression was already three years old when FDR took office. So who meddled with the economy?
As for regulating business, FDR tried to allow some business to regulate their own business and it was a disaster.
FDR entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the United States. True, Germany only wanted Europe and Japan only wanted Asia, and maybe it was wrong for America to not supply the oil so Japan could be successful.

FEDGOV had enacted the Federal Reserve Act - that should have been abolished
FEDGOV had "enacted" the 16th Amendment - that should have been abolished -

Businesses were NOT regulated by the government prior to 1913 - so what "disaster" are you referring to?

Hitler declared War on the US AFTER FDR manipulated Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor.

FDR did not manipulate Japan into expansionism, the invasion of China, a treaty with Hitler or the Rape of Nanking with its horrendous war atrocities. Continuing trade and facilitating the conduct of Japan was viewed as immoral as well as militarily foolish because it was empowering a nation that was predicted to be an enemy at some point.

HUH?

WTF

I did not say anything about Japan's "expansionism" - it is a sovereign government so they were free to pursue its interests - it was not FDR's responsibility to freeze their assets, refuse to sell them oil,

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not

 

[MikeK]

Well first, businesses were regulated prior to FDR.

Unfortunately not in a way that would substantially benefit ordinary workers and enable the rise of an empowered middle class.

 

[Camp]

The best definition of stupidity is unwillingness to see and to understand that which is right before one's eyes.

When FDR assumed Office the U.S. was in the grip of a ruinous economic depression and was confronted by two massively powerful, increasingly militaristic countries whose combined objective was world domination. As the direct result of FDR's political actions and controversial economic policies we overcame the imposing menace of advancing fascism and then gave rise to the Great American Middle Class.

We did these two incredibly difficult things by following the policies and practices laid out by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The results of his efforts are right before your eyes.

But there are none so blind as they who will not see.

Bullshit

There was a "ruinous economic depression " because of the federal government meddling with the economy . Firstly, through the Federal Reserve Board and secondly through massive regiulation of businesses. His job was merely to abolish that institution and all economic impediments.

There is NO evidence that the Axis sought world domination or that they threatened the US.

FDR wanted to enter WWII to assist the UK. He provoked Hirohito into attacking the US.
QUOTE].[/
So who meddled with the economy? The Republicans were in office 12 years before FDR was elected, and the depression was already three years old when FDR took office. So who meddled with the economy?
As for regulating business, FDR tried to allow some business to regulate their own business and it was a disaster.
FDR entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the United States. True, Germany only wanted Europe and Japan only wanted Asia, and maybe it was wrong for America to not supply the oil so Japan could be successful.

FEDGOV had enacted the Federal Reserve Act - that should have been abolished
FEDGOV had "enacted" the 16th Amendment - that should have been abolished -

Businesses were NOT regulated by the government prior to 1913 - so what "disaster" are you referring to?

Hitler declared War on the US AFTER FDR manipulated Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor.

FDR did not manipulate Japan into expansionism, the invasion of China, a treaty with Hitler or the Rape of Nanking with its horrendous war atrocities. Continuing trade and facilitating the conduct of Japan was viewed as immoral as well as militarily foolish because it was empowering a nation that was predicted to be an enemy at some point.

HUH?

WTF

I did not say anything about Japan's "expansionism" - it is a sovereign government so they were free to pursue its interests - it was not FDR's responsibility to freeze their assets, refuse to sell them oil,

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not

I did not say you mentioned expansionism, I used it as an example of why sanctions were put on Japan. Many people knew the war with Japan was coming. The attack was predicted in two books published before Pearl Harbor. The books and others predicted the attack would be on the facilities in the Philippines and that is why the fleet was moved to Pearl. As I pointed out, the sanctions on Japan were imposed as both moral and military considerations. Japan was still fighting both Chaing Ki Shek and Mao in China. Victory against those forces would have made millions of Japanese forces available for the war with Russia and grossly hindered Russia's war against the Nazi's.
America had the right to refuse to sell oil to Japan just like they had the right to sell products to Great Britain and use international waters, the Atlantic Ocean, to do it. Despite the threats from Germany and Japan, FDR refused to allow the USA to be extorted and bullied into giving up sovereign rights.

 

[Contumacious]

Bullshit

There was a "ruinous economic depression " because of the federal government meddling with the economy . Firstly, through the Federal Reserve Board and secondly through massive regiulation of businesses. His job was merely to abolish that institution and all economic impediments.

There is NO evidence that the Axis sought world domination or that they threatened the US.

FDR wanted to enter WWII to assist the UK. He provoked Hirohito into attacking the US.
QUOTE].[/
So who meddled with the economy? The Republicans were in office 12 years before FDR was elected, and the depression was already three years old when FDR took office. So who meddled with the economy?
As for regulating business, FDR tried to allow some business to regulate their own business and it was a disaster.
FDR entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the United States. True, Germany only wanted Europe and Japan only wanted Asia, and maybe it was wrong for America to not supply the oil so Japan could be successful.

FEDGOV had enacted the Federal Reserve Act - that should have been abolished
FEDGOV had "enacted" the 16th Amendment - that should have been abolished -

Businesses were NOT regulated by the government prior to 1913 - so what "disaster" are you referring to?

Hitler declared War on the US AFTER FDR manipulated Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor.

FDR did not manipulate Japan into expansionism, the invasion of China, a treaty with Hitler or the Rape of Nanking with its horrendous war atrocities. Continuing trade and facilitating the conduct of Japan was viewed as immoral as well as militarily foolish because it was empowering a nation that was predicted to be an enemy at some point.

HUH?

WTF

I did not say anything about Japan's "expansionism" - it is a sovereign government so they were free to pursue its interests - it was not FDR's responsibility to freeze their assets, refuse to sell them oil,

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not

I did not say you mentioned expansionism, I used it as an example of why sanctions were put on Japan. Many people knew the war with Japan was coming. The attack was predicted in two books published before Pearl Harbor. The books and others predicted the attack would be on the facilities in the Philippines and that is why the fleet was moved to Pearl. As I pointed out, the sanctions on Japan were imposed as both moral and military considerations. Japan was still fighting both Chaing Ki Shek and Mao in China. Victory against those forces would have made millions of Japanese forces available for the war with Russia and grossly hindered Russia's war against the Nazi's.
America had the right to refuse to sell oil to Japan just like they had the right to sell products to Great Britain and use international waters, the Atlantic Ocean, to do it. Despite the threats from Germany and Japan, FDR refused to allow the USA to be extorted and bullied into giving up sovereign rights.

HUH?

WTF?

WHY did the FDR had a right to refuse to sell oil? The Oil belonged to US corporations not to the government.

Why sanction Japan, at the time the US was neutral - the strategy behind provoking Japan to attack was to force American to abandon the NEUTRALITY policy.


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