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All you did was say you couldn't dumb it down enough. You never said what the difference was between providing a cake and providng a ride.I did too dumbass, read it again.]You didn't address the difference between providing a cake and providing a cab ride. You just said it was too dumb to discuss. A cheap way out, IMO, hence my appraisal of why you lost the argument.You didn't address the difference between providing a cake and providing a cab ride. You just said it was too dumb to discuss. A cheap way out, IMO, hence my appraisal of why you lost the argument.I not only got out of it, I killed your argument but you aren't smart enough or honest enough to understand it.
Yes I did, but let me try one more time to break through to you.
Providing a cake isn't the problem, when the store owner has to put two plastic men together or women, and decorate it with two men's names and deliver it to the wedding, that is participating in the ceremony. The driver of a cab is not participating in the drinking of the alcohol and is only selling the ride. Just like the cake seller sells a cake to some person without asking for sexual orientation first.
The two are not at all the same. Clear?
So why doesn't Congress write a law repealing Obamacare?I showed how that was the case. You are merely butthurt because you arent smart enough to have figured out I was correct. Congress creates laws by voting on them."Being voted on by Congress makes it a law"
Now, as expected, the Rabbit moves his goalposts.
All you did was say you couldn't dumb it down enough. You never said what the difference was between providing a cake and providng a ride.I did too dumbass, read it again.]You didn't address the difference between providing a cake and providing a cab ride. You just said it was too dumb to discuss. A cheap way out, IMO, hence my appraisal of why you lost the argument.You didn't address the difference between providing a cake and providing a cab ride. You just said it was too dumb to discuss. A cheap way out, IMO, hence my appraisal of why you lost the argument.I not only got out of it, I killed your argument but you aren't smart enough or honest enough to understand it.
Yes I did, but let me try one more time to break through to you.
Providing a cake isn't the problem, when the store owner has to put two plastic men together or women, and decorate it with two men's names and deliver it to the wedding, that is participating in the ceremony. The driver of a cab is not participating in the drinking of the alcohol and is only selling the ride. Just like the cake seller sells a cake to some person without asking for sexual orientation first.
The two are not at all the same. Clear?
The store owner doesn't have to put two plastic anything on the cake...if it is not something they already provide. If they don't carry the cake topper, they don't have to, they just bake the cake they'd bake a straight couple. Even if the cake they bake is delivered, they aren't "participating", they are baking a cake and dropping it off. Nobody "participates" except the people getting married.
All you did was say you couldn't dumb it down enough. You never said what the difference was between providing a cake and providng a ride.I did too dumbass, read it again.]You didn't address the difference between providing a cake and providing a cab ride. You just said it was too dumb to discuss. A cheap way out, IMO, hence my appraisal of why you lost the argument.You didn't address the difference between providing a cake and providing a cab ride. You just said it was too dumb to discuss. A cheap way out, IMO, hence my appraisal of why you lost the argument.I not only got out of it, I killed your argument but you aren't smart enough or honest enough to understand it.
Yes I did, but let me try one more time to break through to you.
Providing a cake isn't the problem, when the store owner has to put two plastic men together or women, and decorate it with two men's names and deliver it to the wedding, that is participating in the ceremony. The driver of a cab is not participating in the drinking of the alcohol and is only selling the ride. Just like the cake seller sells a cake to some person without asking for sexual orientation first.
The two are not at all the same. Clear?
The store owner doesn't have to put two plastic anything on the cake...if it is not something they already provide. If they don't carry the cake topper, they don't have to, they just bake the cake they'd bake a straight couple. Even if the cake they bake is delivered, they aren't "participating", they are baking a cake and dropping it off. Nobody "participates" except the people getting married.
If that was true there wouldn't have been a problem. Unfortunately for you that wasn't how it went.
Still going on over some damn cake, flowers and pizza. I mean my GAWD.
Still going on over some damn cake, flowers and pizza. I mean my GAWD.
Yes, the "Christians" are still refusing to serve gays based on their "deeply held religious beliefs" about cake, flowers and pizza...that they have no problem serving to other "sinners".
Still going on over some damn cake, flowers and pizza. I mean my GAWD.
Yes, the "Christians" are still refusing to serve gays based on their "deeply held religious beliefs" about cake, flowers and pizza...that they have no problem serving to other "sinners".
You are right...no one is FORCED into participating into a particular business. However if one CHOOSES to get into a particular field of business, there are legal obligations that go along with the business license. No one is FORCED to have a bathroom in their business...but if you want that license, you have a legal obligation. No one is FORCED to provide a safe environment for workers...but if you want that license, you have a legal obligation. And so on and so forth.....business is FULL of legal obligations....and suddenly it's "involuntary servitude"?The article is true in general but it ignores the main point. And that is that the government ir anyone else has no right to force anyone into participating in anything, especially if it violates their religion. Period, end of story.
Then don't have a business that requires a business license. Because there's a boat load of things the government "forces" you to do in order to have a business.The article is true in general but it ignores the main point. And that is that the government ir anyone else has no right to force anyone into participating in anything, especially if it violates their religion. Period, end of story.
Yeah, well thanks for playing "I want unicorns that fart glitter". The fact is that the government does indeed do just that and when they do, it has been found to be within their Constitutional boundaries. You can argue the world where you want it to be instead of discussing it where it is...I'd rather play a video game. At least that's fantasy I can interact with.
I would rather play a video game than have a govt force me to do something.
Freedom Isn’t a Zero-Sum Game
It’s firmly in the Christian ethos to identify as being persecuted. Jesus stood up to the establishment and was tortured and murdered for it. To be a Christian is to worship a martyr.
So it’s been easy for America’s religious leaders/politicians to convince the devout they too are under assault. That in a country of 300 million, where the vast majority identify as Christian, where there’s never been a non-Christian president, where crosses are as ubiquitous as trees—Christians are being victimized for their convictions. That the almost entirely unanimously self-identified Christian government is going to suddenly go all ancient Rome on the followers of Jesus Christ.
It’s a way believers get manipulated. It makes them malleable and willing to go along with any hysteria that flares up. This week it’s religious freedom. If you listen to those sending out emails asking for donations—it’s under attack!!
How are Christians being attacked? How are their rights being diminished? Apparently if they own a business they’re being forced by Big Government to serve homosexuals. This is what oppression looks like: owning a business and making money off people your religion condemns. GASP! [...]
Apparently, American Christians are now being told liberty is a zero-sum game. That if LGBTs have more rights, Christians then have fewer; if homosexuals are equal, then Christians are second-class citizens; the more for a minority, the less for the majority. They’re being told the most important part of their faith isn’t charity to all—it’s ostracization for some.
Slavery is in the Bible. There are even instructions on how to treat one’s slaves. Slavery is not legal—and even the most devout can’t own any human beings. Are Christian’s less free because of this?
Segregation was fueled by the belief that black people had the mark of Cain. Segregation is not legal. Are Christian’s less free because of this?
Mutilations for punishments are abundant in the Bible for various crimes including theft and being a prostitute. This has been a practice of the Christian World for ages. The Eighth Amendment barred them; they are illegal. Are Christians less free?
No, and no one would dare to make that argument. Those battles have been won. American Christians live with a secular government that “forces” them to not live biblically every day and largely they’re fine with it.
But homosexuality is an abomination—an affront to god—according to the Bible, you say?
Usury is condemned as an abomination in the Bible. Charging interest is legal—even egregious amounts to poor people. These moneychangers are on every corner. Are Christians being threatened by this offense to god?
There are plenty of other abominations which are suspiciously glossed over by the modern faithful, like obesity, not covering your head, wearing wool blends, eating shellfish, being rich—all condemned and punished severely in the Christian Bible. None of them are against the law. Christians don’t claim their freedom is being impeded by these facts or that it’s so offensive to their faith they can’t run a business. [...]
Freedom really means others will be tolerated whom you don’t regard, understand or agree with. That’s the downside of having freedom in a free county—Americans you don’t like have it too.
Gays being treated equally and having the same protections in a few states that Christians have in all 50 states, does not equate to "Christian Persecution".
So...you don't have a right to marry either. Is that correct?oh for crying out loud. You have every RIGHT the rest of people in this country has.
Marrying isn't a frikken right. You just USE it to bludgeon the rest of the people with it.
so sick of hearing about how you are such poor poor victims in life
tiny is a fitting name for that website. whiners is another
Isn't it interesting how the Law does not recognize that gay people are any less equal that the likes of you. Must suck, eh?Freedom Isn’t a Zero-Sum Game
It’s firmly in the Christian ethos to identify as being persecuted. Jesus stood up to the establishment and was tortured and murdered for it. To be a Christian is to worship a martyr.
So it’s been easy for America’s religious leaders/politicians to convince the devout they too are under assault. That in a country of 300 million, where the vast majority identify as Christian, where there’s never been a non-Christian president, where crosses are as ubiquitous as trees—Christians are being victimized for their convictions. That the almost entirely unanimously self-identified Christian government is going to suddenly go all ancient Rome on the followers of Jesus Christ.
It’s a way believers get manipulated. It makes them malleable and willing to go along with any hysteria that flares up. This week it’s religious freedom. If you listen to those sending out emails asking for donations—it’s under attack!!
How are Christians being attacked? How are their rights being diminished? Apparently if they own a business they’re being forced by Big Government to serve homosexuals. This is what oppression looks like: owning a business and making money off people your religion condemns. GASP! [...]
Apparently, American Christians are now being told liberty is a zero-sum game. That if LGBTs have more rights, Christians then have fewer; if homosexuals are equal, then Christians are second-class citizens; the more for a minority, the less for the majority. They’re being told the most important part of their faith isn’t charity to all—it’s ostracization for some.
Slavery is in the Bible. There are even instructions on how to treat one’s slaves. Slavery is not legal—and even the most devout can’t own any human beings. Are Christian’s less free because of this?
Segregation was fueled by the belief that black people had the mark of Cain. Segregation is not legal. Are Christian’s less free because of this?
Mutilations for punishments are abundant in the Bible for various crimes including theft and being a prostitute. This has been a practice of the Christian World for ages. The Eighth Amendment barred them; they are illegal. Are Christians less free?
No, and no one would dare to make that argument. Those battles have been won. American Christians live with a secular government that “forces” them to not live biblically every day and largely they’re fine with it.
But homosexuality is an abomination—an affront to god—according to the Bible, you say?
Usury is condemned as an abomination in the Bible. Charging interest is legal—even egregious amounts to poor people. These moneychangers are on every corner. Are Christians being threatened by this offense to god?
There are plenty of other abominations which are suspiciously glossed over by the modern faithful, like obesity, not covering your head, wearing wool blends, eating shellfish, being rich—all condemned and punished severely in the Christian Bible. None of them are against the law. Christians don’t claim their freedom is being impeded by these facts or that it’s so offensive to their faith they can’t run a business. [...]
Freedom really means others will be tolerated whom you don’t regard, understand or agree with. That’s the downside of having freedom in a free county—Americans you don’t like have it too.
Gays being treated equally and having the same protections in a few states that Christians have in all 50 states, does not equate to "Christian Persecution".
Rights are not 'given' by the state, as the state has no rights to give.
The State has only POWER.
Rights are intrinsic to the individual, as a consequence of their being, As such, sexually deviant beings have the same rights as those who are NOT inherently saddles with mental disorder.
The problem that the mentally disordered have, is that they lack the objectivity to recognize the RESPONSIBILITIES intrinsic to their rights.
Thus the feel that they've the RIGHT to cripple people who refuse to celebrate their perversion.
They do not have that right and what's more, their doing so is a failure on their part to NOT exercise their rights to the detriment of the means of another to exercise their own rights; thus demonstrating a forfeiture of the sexual deviant, of their rights.
And THAT is yet ANOTHER CLUE as to why sexual deviants have spent 99.99999~% of human history in the closet.
So...you don't have a right to marry either. Is that correct?oh for crying out loud. You have every RIGHT the rest of people in this country has.
Marrying isn't a frikken right. You just USE it to bludgeon the rest of the people with it.
so sick of hearing about how you are such poor poor victims in life
tiny is a fitting name for that website. whiners is another
Isn't it interesting how the Law does not recognize that gay people are any less equal that the likes of you. Must suck, eh?Freedom Isn’t a Zero-Sum Game
It’s firmly in the Christian ethos to identify as being persecuted. Jesus stood up to the establishment and was tortured and murdered for it. To be a Christian is to worship a martyr.
So it’s been easy for America’s religious leaders/politicians to convince the devout they too are under assault. That in a country of 300 million, where the vast majority identify as Christian, where there’s never been a non-Christian president, where crosses are as ubiquitous as trees—Christians are being victimized for their convictions. That the almost entirely unanimously self-identified Christian government is going to suddenly go all ancient Rome on the followers of Jesus Christ.
It’s a way believers get manipulated. It makes them malleable and willing to go along with any hysteria that flares up. This week it’s religious freedom. If you listen to those sending out emails asking for donations—it’s under attack!!
How are Christians being attacked? How are their rights being diminished? Apparently if they own a business they’re being forced by Big Government to serve homosexuals. This is what oppression looks like: owning a business and making money off people your religion condemns. GASP! [...]
Apparently, American Christians are now being told liberty is a zero-sum game. That if LGBTs have more rights, Christians then have fewer; if homosexuals are equal, then Christians are second-class citizens; the more for a minority, the less for the majority. They’re being told the most important part of their faith isn’t charity to all—it’s ostracization for some.
Slavery is in the Bible. There are even instructions on how to treat one’s slaves. Slavery is not legal—and even the most devout can’t own any human beings. Are Christian’s less free because of this?
Segregation was fueled by the belief that black people had the mark of Cain. Segregation is not legal. Are Christian’s less free because of this?
Mutilations for punishments are abundant in the Bible for various crimes including theft and being a prostitute. This has been a practice of the Christian World for ages. The Eighth Amendment barred them; they are illegal. Are Christians less free?
No, and no one would dare to make that argument. Those battles have been won. American Christians live with a secular government that “forces” them to not live biblically every day and largely they’re fine with it.
But homosexuality is an abomination—an affront to god—according to the Bible, you say?
Usury is condemned as an abomination in the Bible. Charging interest is legal—even egregious amounts to poor people. These moneychangers are on every corner. Are Christians being threatened by this offense to god?
There are plenty of other abominations which are suspiciously glossed over by the modern faithful, like obesity, not covering your head, wearing wool blends, eating shellfish, being rich—all condemned and punished severely in the Christian Bible. None of them are against the law. Christians don’t claim their freedom is being impeded by these facts or that it’s so offensive to their faith they can’t run a business. [...]
Freedom really means others will be tolerated whom you don’t regard, understand or agree with. That’s the downside of having freedom in a free county—Americans you don’t like have it too.
Gays being treated equally and having the same protections in a few states that Christians have in all 50 states, does not equate to "Christian Persecution".
Rights are not 'given' by the state, as the state has no rights to give.
The State has only POWER.
Rights are intrinsic to the individual, as a consequence of their being, As such, sexually deviant beings have the same rights as those who are NOT inherently saddled with mental disorder.
The problem that the mentally disordered have, is that they lack the objectivity to recognize the RESPONSIBILITIES intrinsic to their rights.
Thus the feel that they've the RIGHT to cripple people who refuse to celebrate their perversion.
They do not have that right and what's more, their doing so is a failure on their part to NOT exercise their rights to the detriment of the means of another to exercise their own rights; thus demonstrating a forfeiture of the sexual deviant, of their rights.
And THAT is yet ANOTHER CLUE as to why sexual deviants have spent 99.99999~% of human history in the closet.
you said:Isn't it interesting how the Law does not recognize that gay people are any less equal that the likes of you. Must suck, eh?i said:Rights are intrinsic to the individual, as a consequence of their being, As such, sexually deviant beings have the same rights as those who are NOT inherently saddled with mental disorder.
Like the Puritans did.Freedom really means others will be tolerated whom you don’t regard, understand or agree with. That’s the downside of having freedom in a free county—Americans you don’t like have it too.
That's why some of us have no use for FREEDOM. We would prefer to live in a Moral and Decent society rather than living in a FREE one.
Oh my.....shrill.The article is true in general but it ignores the main point. And that is that the government ir anyone else has no right to force anyone into participating in anything, especially if it violates their religion. Period, end of story.
Yeah, well thanks for playing "I want unicorns that fart glitter". The fact is that the government does indeed do just that and when they do, it has been found to be within their Constitutional boundaries. You can argue the world where you want it to be instead of discussing it where it is...I'd rather play a video game. At least that's fantasy I can interact with.
Go play your video game, shit the fuck up and let the adults run the show.
So...you are one of those "some are more equal than others" people. Tough living in the U.S. in the 21st century, is it?Isn't it interesting how the Law does not recognize that gay people are any less equal that the likes of you. Must suck, eh?Freedom Isn’t a Zero-Sum Game
It’s firmly in the Christian ethos to identify as being persecuted. Jesus stood up to the establishment and was tortured and murdered for it. To be a Christian is to worship a martyr.
So it’s been easy for America’s religious leaders/politicians to convince the devout they too are under assault. That in a country of 300 million, where the vast majority identify as Christian, where there’s never been a non-Christian president, where crosses are as ubiquitous as trees—Christians are being victimized for their convictions. That the almost entirely unanimously self-identified Christian government is going to suddenly go all ancient Rome on the followers of Jesus Christ.
It’s a way believers get manipulated. It makes them malleable and willing to go along with any hysteria that flares up. This week it’s religious freedom. If you listen to those sending out emails asking for donations—it’s under attack!!
How are Christians being attacked? How are their rights being diminished? Apparently if they own a business they’re being forced by Big Government to serve homosexuals. This is what oppression looks like: owning a business and making money off people your religion condemns. GASP! [...]
Apparently, American Christians are now being told liberty is a zero-sum game. That if LGBTs have more rights, Christians then have fewer; if homosexuals are equal, then Christians are second-class citizens; the more for a minority, the less for the majority. They’re being told the most important part of their faith isn’t charity to all—it’s ostracization for some.
Slavery is in the Bible. There are even instructions on how to treat one’s slaves. Slavery is not legal—and even the most devout can’t own any human beings. Are Christian’s less free because of this?
Segregation was fueled by the belief that black people had the mark of Cain. Segregation is not legal. Are Christian’s less free because of this?
Mutilations for punishments are abundant in the Bible for various crimes including theft and being a prostitute. This has been a practice of the Christian World for ages. The Eighth Amendment barred them; they are illegal. Are Christians less free?
No, and no one would dare to make that argument. Those battles have been won. American Christians live with a secular government that “forces” them to not live biblically every day and largely they’re fine with it.
But homosexuality is an abomination—an affront to god—according to the Bible, you say?
Usury is condemned as an abomination in the Bible. Charging interest is legal—even egregious amounts to poor people. These moneychangers are on every corner. Are Christians being threatened by this offense to god?
There are plenty of other abominations which are suspiciously glossed over by the modern faithful, like obesity, not covering your head, wearing wool blends, eating shellfish, being rich—all condemned and punished severely in the Christian Bible. None of them are against the law. Christians don’t claim their freedom is being impeded by these facts or that it’s so offensive to their faith they can’t run a business. [...]
Freedom really means others will be tolerated whom you don’t regard, understand or agree with. That’s the downside of having freedom in a free county—Americans you don’t like have it too.
Gays being treated equally and having the same protections in a few states that Christians have in all 50 states, does not equate to "Christian Persecution".
Rights are not 'given' by the state, as the state has no rights to give.
The State has only POWER.
Rights are intrinsic to the individual, as a consequence of their being, As such, sexually deviant beings have the same rights as those who are NOT inherently saddled with mental disorder.
The problem that the mentally disordered have, is that they lack the objectivity to recognize the RESPONSIBILITIES intrinsic to their rights.
Thus the feel that they've the RIGHT to cripple people who refuse to celebrate their perversion.
They do not have that right and what's more, their doing so is a failure on their part to NOT exercise their rights to the detriment of the means of another to exercise their own rights; thus demonstrating a forfeiture of the sexual deviant, of their rights.
And THAT is yet ANOTHER CLUE as to why sexual deviants have spent 99.99999~% of human history in the closet.
The Reader should recognize that the above exchange demonstrates the mental disorder common to sexual deviancy.... I've taken the time to reframe the discussion so you can get an idea of the delusion which the sexual deviant [cited above] is demonstrating:
you said:Isn't it interesting how the Law does not recognize that gay people are any less equal that the likes of you. Must suck, eh?i said:Rights are intrinsic to the individual, as a consequence of their being, As such, sexually deviant beings have the same rights as those who are NOT inherently saddled with mental disorder.
See how that works?
They were told if they don't do their job, they don't have a job. I'm surprised we didn't hear about a huge fundraising effort for them....and how they were suffering under "involuntary servitude". Odd, isn't it?Muslim taxi-drivers don't have to pick up drinkers? I may never get a cab again!The article is true in general but it ignores the main point. And that is that the government ir anyone else has no right to force anyone into participating in anything, especially if it violates their religion. Period, end of story.
