From catholic to atheist

[Disir]

I'm not interested in if your impressed. People have been leaving LDS. The numbers that LDS touts are deceiving because you have to jump through hoops to have your name removed. Many people just leave and don't bother with it. Fun filled fact.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

A person who completely ignores living their religion becomes an atheist. I wish I could say it was shocking, but it's not.

So if I go to church services (for how long?), I would become a believer?

Seriously, I've tried to make sense out of your statement and it just doesn't fly.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I'm not interested in if your impressed. People have been leaving LDS. The numbers that LDS touts are deceiving because you have to jump through hoops to have your name removed. Many people just leave and don't bother with it. Fun filled fact.

I've read there was an uptick in "believers" of various religions/cults right after 9/11 but that membership and attending services has been steadily declining since then.

Having said that, I have no doubt there will always be people who want and need what religion gives them. Go figure.

 

[Disir]

I'm not interested in if your impressed. People have been leaving LDS. The numbers that LDS touts are deceiving because you have to jump through hoops to have your name removed. Many people just leave and don't bother with it. Fun filled fact.

I've read there was an uptick in "believers" of various religions/cults right after 9/11 but that membership and attending services has been steadily declining since then.

Having said that, I have no doubt there will always be people who want and need what religion gives them. Go figure.

The problem is that history comes and kicks it in the behind every time. LDS cannot hide their history as much as they could before.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I'm not interested in if your impressed. People have been leaving LDS. The numbers that LDS touts are deceiving because you have to jump through hoops to have your name removed. Many people just leave and don't bother with it. Fun filled fact.

I've read there was an uptick in "believers" of various religions/cults right after 9/11 but that membership and attending services has been steadily declining since then.

Having said that, I have no doubt there will always be people who want and need what religion gives them. Go figure.

The problem is that history comes and kicks it in the behind every time. LDS cannot hide their history as much as they could before.

Mittens running prez contributed to that. A lot of us who weren't paying much attention to cults in general started reading and researching because of Mitt. Part of the reason people didn't vote for him is his wacko religion.

I'm not really picking on mormonism though. Its true they're just plain nutty but I believe that the main difference between a cult and a religion is how long they've been around.

Other religions are just as crazy as the morms but that craziness has become accepted.

 

[sealybobo]

What It's Like to Go from a Hard-Core Catholic Upbringing to Atheism | Alternet

... Growing up, we went to mass every Sunday. I was baptized, received Holy Communion, went to confession, and was confirmed. I was raised to believe homosexuality, sex before marriage, and abortion are sins. I remember as a kid taking issue with all of those teachings and more, but I bit my tongue and strived to be the most devout little Catholic lady ever. When I turned 15, my dad went missing without explanation and my mom continued to go to mass. She’d sob her way through it every single time, and it wasn’t long before I refused to go with her anymore. I realized that the Catholic Church was, for me, a negative environment. I rarely go to mass now, except to accompany family.

So, a year ago, when my mom told me the story of the “miracle” of my conception, I had to sit down and think. If the Catholic Church had had such a big hand in my existence, what else had this organization that stands for so much I disagree with given me?

First, it had given my family a community to be part of. The Church had hosted so many events I went to as a kid and babysat me on Sundays while my parents went grocery shopping. It had been the one consistent thing in our lifestyle when I was growing up moving every 2 years around the world. Going to mass had been the one ritual that had remained constant whether we lived in Cote d’Ivoire, Botswana, Curacao, Virginia, wherever. As an international organization, I’ve seen the negative reaches of the Catholic Church, but it’d given me some sense of identity, too. Furthermore, I’d met some truly incredible Catholics — people who I respect the shit out of for the love and devotion I’ve seen them display.

Second, although the Bible is full of a lot of bullshit, it’s still a book that every person should read. It gives one incredible insight into history and is just plain interesting, honestly. Also, in between all the “stone your wife” and “kill your son” stuff, there are some pretty powerful and invaluable teachings in the Bible. Who doesn’t need to practice humility, love, respect, and patience more in their life? There isn’t a person alive who doesn’t benefit from some self-evaluation and reflection, and the Bible is provocative in that sense (and the Church in general promotes this).

When I was 15 and lost my virginity (fairly early), I thought I was going to Hell and cried for days. Little did I know that everyone in my family is very sexual and my parents did not wait until marriage to have sex. When I learned to masturbate, I felt incredible guilt and self-disgust, thinking it was a sin. When I made gay friends, I was embarrassed to bring them home to my parents. When I helped a friend with an abortion, I cried for days agonizing over not being able to talk to anyone about something that my friend had every right and good intentions in doing (and was a good choice, ultimately).

However, regardless of all this negativity the Church brought into my life (and there is much, much more), I have respect for my roots. I understand the things the Church has done for me, despite me not being a member in it. I refuse to demonize religion now as so many other atheists do, because I cannot deny that the Catholic Church has made me the person I am proud to be today.

My boyfriend is an avid atheist also, but a much more aggressive one. He believes religion is totally negative, that organized religion is inherently bad. So, we were talking the other day about our hypothetical kids and got into a huge fight.

Read the rest at the link.

Anyone else religious but became atheist or the other way around - atheist but became a believer?

I can't say I ever believed. I went to Sunday school because I was a kid and adults made my decisions. At 14, I finally planted my feet and never went back. No big epiphany, no light bulbs going on in my head. There were some family fights but there were always fights in my family.

I just never entertained the possibility that the story they were telling was true. I didn't buy it, not for one moment and I can remember sitting quietly in Sunday school class, and having to match up little cut out figures to felt covered boards and bible verses. I can remember looking around and wondering what the heck we were doing there. (It was an old church, lots of dark wood, mildew smell and cold and dank. I just hated being there.)

Except for the occasional wedding or funeral, I haven't been inside a church and have no plans to change that.

Anyone else?

(- and, please, would the bible thumpers restrain from their nasty-mouth preaching? If you want to discuss your own experience, I'd like to read it. If you want to post more miles of bible verses and insults, just please don't. Thanks)

Very similar to your experience. Born into it, we had a bad experience at Sunday school and my parents took us out but then for years we were still Greek Orthodox Christians. Christmas and Easter. I remember dogma christians would try to tell me the biblical stories and I never believed those stories but then my family just told me those are stories to teach a good message. But they never pointed out that even the jesus story might be made up too. But I never really bought into it all 100% either. However, maybe 10 years ago I promised to join the church ($500) if I got a job. I got the job so I joined. Then they started hitting me up and calling me and bugging me why I don't come every Sunday and the next year I didn't renew. Then maybe 6 months ago I ran into an atheist who woke me up completely. Because I still thought I had a personal relationship with god. I knew that none of what the bible thumpers were saying could possibly be true but I still believed in a god. Why? That's when my friends kept drilling it into my head, THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE IN A GOD. Then we got together and watched the Cosmos every week and then I watched a bunch of our best atheist debaters and I also found this site Why there is no god

Which is a pretty good site. It even admits that the best possible position to have is agnostic atheist because an atheist can't say they know for sure they know everything just like our theist counterparts don't know anything. But we don't claim to know. They do. And if you are going to make an extraordinary claim you better have some extraordinary proof.

 

[Disir]

I've read there was an uptick in "believers" of various religions/cults right after 9/11 but that membership and attending services has been steadily declining since then.

Having said that, I have no doubt there will always be people who want and need what religion gives them. Go figure.

The problem is that history comes and kicks it in the behind every time. LDS cannot hide their history as much as they could before.

Mittens running prez contributed to that. A lot of us who weren't paying much attention to cults in general started reading and researching because of Mitt. Part of the reason people didn't vote for him is his wacko religion.

I'm not really picking on mormonism though. Its true they're just plain nutty but I believe that the main difference between a cult and a religion is how long they've been around.

Other religions are just as crazy as the morms but that craziness has become accepted.

Not necessarily. Joseph Smith was convicted of fraud in New York. Incidentally, the stupid seer stone trick is the reason that they keep running into trouble afterwards. People leaving the church has been occurring for years. Since the internet it has been easier to share documents. No privacy and no boundaries. Pre-Mittens.

 

[sealybobo]

I've read there was an uptick in "believers" of various religions/cults right after 9/11 but that membership and attending services has been steadily declining since then.

Having said that, I have no doubt there will always be people who want and need what religion gives them. Go figure.

The problem is that history comes and kicks it in the behind every time. LDS cannot hide their history as much as they could before.

I'm not really picking on mormonism though. Its true they're just plain nutty but I believe that the main difference between a cult and a religion is how long they've been around.

The only difference is the number of members or size of the group. If enough people believe it's a religion if not enough believe it's a cult.

 

[sealybobo]

The problem is that history comes and kicks it in the behind every time. LDS cannot hide their history as much as they could before.

Mittens running prez contributed to that. A lot of us who weren't paying much attention to cults in general started reading and researching because of Mitt. Part of the reason people didn't vote for him is his wacko religion.

I'm not really picking on mormonism though. Its true they're just plain nutty but I believe that the main difference between a cult and a religion is how long they've been around.

Other religions are just as crazy as the morms but that craziness has become accepted.

Not necessarily. Joseph Smith was convicted of fraud in New York. Incidentally, the stupid seer stone trick is the reason that they keep running into trouble afterwards. People leaving the church has been occurring for years. Since the internet it has been easier to share documents. No privacy and no boundaries. Pre-Mittens.

There is no evidence to support any of the claims made in the Bible concerning the existence of a god. Any ‘evidence’ proposed by theists to support the Bible’s various historical and supernatural claims is non-existent at best, manufactured at worst.

The Bible is not self-authenticating; it is simply one of many religious texts. Like those others, it itself constitutes no evidence for the existence of a god. Its florid prose and fanciful content do not legitimise it nor distinguish it from other ancient works of literature.

The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.

“Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” – Isaac Asimov

There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus’ existence or the Bible’s account of his life; no artefacts, dwellings, works of carpentry, self-written manuscripts, court records, eyewitness testimony, official diaries, birth records, reflections on his significance or written disputes about his teachings. Nothing survives from the time in which he is said to have lived.

All historical references to Jesus derive from hearsay accounts written decades or centuries after his supposed death. These historical references generally refer to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus and, in some cases, directly contradict the Gospels or were deliberately manufactured.

The Gospels themselves contradict one-another on many key events and were constructed by unknown authors up to a century after the events they describe are said to have occurred. They are not eyewitness accounts. The New Testament, as a whole, contains many internal inconsistencies as a result of its piecemeal construction and is factually incorrect on several historical claims, such as the early existence of Nazareth, the reign of Herod and the Roman census. Like the Old Testament, it too has had entire books and sections redacted.

The Biblical account of Jesus has striking similarities with other mythologies and texts and many of his supposed teachings existed prior to his time. It is likely the character was either partly or entirely invented by competing first century messianic cults from an amalgamation of Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Judeo-Apocalyptic myths and prophecies.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.

 

[Disir]

Mittens running prez contributed to that. A lot of us who weren't paying much attention to cults in general started reading and researching because of Mitt. Part of the reason people didn't vote for him is his wacko religion.

I'm not really picking on mormonism though. Its true they're just plain nutty but I believe that the main difference between a cult and a religion is how long they've been around.

Other religions are just as crazy as the morms but that craziness has become accepted.

Not necessarily. Joseph Smith was convicted of fraud in New York. Incidentally, the stupid seer stone trick is the reason that they keep running into trouble afterwards. People leaving the church has been occurring for years. Since the internet it has been easier to share documents. No privacy and no boundaries. Pre-Mittens.

There is no evidence to support any of the claims made in the Bible concerning the existence of a god. Any ‘evidence’ proposed by theists to support the Bible’s various historical and supernatural claims is non-existent at best, manufactured at worst.

The Bible is not self-authenticating; it is simply one of many religious texts. Like those others, it itself constitutes no evidence for the existence of a god. Its florid prose and fanciful content do not legitimise it nor distinguish it from other ancient works of literature.

The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.

“Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” – Isaac Asimov

There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus’ existence or the Bible’s account of his life; no artefacts, dwellings, works of carpentry, self-written manuscripts, court records, eyewitness testimony, official diaries, birth records, reflections on his significance or written disputes about his teachings. Nothing survives from the time in which he is said to have lived.

All historical references to Jesus derive from hearsay accounts written decades or centuries after his supposed death. These historical references generally refer to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus and, in some cases, directly contradict the Gospels or were deliberately manufactured.

The Gospels themselves contradict one-another on many key events and were constructed by unknown authors up to a century after the events they describe are said to have occurred. They are not eyewitness accounts. The New Testament, as a whole, contains many internal inconsistencies as a result of its piecemeal construction and is factually incorrect on several historical claims, such as the early existence of Nazareth, the reign of Herod and the Roman census. Like the Old Testament, it too has had entire books and sections redacted.

The Biblical account of Jesus has striking similarities with other mythologies and texts and many of his supposed teachings existed prior to his time. It is likely the character was either partly or entirely invented by competing first century messianic cults from an amalgamation of Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Judeo-Apocalyptic myths and prophecies.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.

I'm an atheist. I'm not agnostic. I don't play no just in casey games. LDS just happens to be the religion that I left. It's a cult.

 

[sealybobo]

Not necessarily. Joseph Smith was convicted of fraud in New York. Incidentally, the stupid seer stone trick is the reason that they keep running into trouble afterwards. People leaving the church has been occurring for years. Since the internet it has been easier to share documents. No privacy and no boundaries. Pre-Mittens.

There is no evidence to support any of the claims made in the Bible concerning the existence of a god. Any ‘evidence’ proposed by theists to support the Bible’s various historical and supernatural claims is non-existent at best, manufactured at worst.

The Bible is not self-authenticating; it is simply one of many religious texts. Like those others, it itself constitutes no evidence for the existence of a god. Its florid prose and fanciful content do not legitimise it nor distinguish it from other ancient works of literature.

The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.

“Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” – Isaac Asimov

There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus’ existence or the Bible’s account of his life; no artefacts, dwellings, works of carpentry, self-written manuscripts, court records, eyewitness testimony, official diaries, birth records, reflections on his significance or written disputes about his teachings. Nothing survives from the time in which he is said to have lived.

All historical references to Jesus derive from hearsay accounts written decades or centuries after his supposed death. These historical references generally refer to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus and, in some cases, directly contradict the Gospels or were deliberately manufactured.

The Gospels themselves contradict one-another on many key events and were constructed by unknown authors up to a century after the events they describe are said to have occurred. They are not eyewitness accounts. The New Testament, as a whole, contains many internal inconsistencies as a result of its piecemeal construction and is factually incorrect on several historical claims, such as the early existence of Nazareth, the reign of Herod and the Roman census. Like the Old Testament, it too has had entire books and sections redacted.

The Biblical account of Jesus has striking similarities with other mythologies and texts and many of his supposed teachings existed prior to his time. It is likely the character was either partly or entirely invented by competing first century messianic cults from an amalgamation of Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Judeo-Apocalyptic myths and prophecies.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.

I'm an atheist. I'm not agnostic. I don't play no just in casey games. LDS just happens to be the religion that I left. It's a cult.

See number 21 The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Why there is no god

Or number 8 It is a ‘god of the gaps’ approach. Our current lack of understanding concerning the Universe’s origins does not mean ‘god’ holds any explanatory value. Metaphysical and theistic speculation are not justified because we lack a comprehensive scientific model. Uncertainty is the most valid position and one can honestly say “We just don’t know yet”.

 

[sealybobo]

Not necessarily. Joseph Smith was convicted of fraud in New York. Incidentally, the stupid seer stone trick is the reason that they keep running into trouble afterwards. People leaving the church has been occurring for years. Since the internet it has been easier to share documents. No privacy and no boundaries. Pre-Mittens.

There is no evidence to support any of the claims made in the Bible concerning the existence of a god. Any ‘evidence’ proposed by theists to support the Bible’s various historical and supernatural claims is non-existent at best, manufactured at worst.

The Bible is not self-authenticating; it is simply one of many religious texts. Like those others, it itself constitutes no evidence for the existence of a god. Its florid prose and fanciful content do not legitimise it nor distinguish it from other ancient works of literature.

The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.

“Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” – Isaac Asimov

There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus’ existence or the Bible’s account of his life; no artefacts, dwellings, works of carpentry, self-written manuscripts, court records, eyewitness testimony, official diaries, birth records, reflections on his significance or written disputes about his teachings. Nothing survives from the time in which he is said to have lived.

All historical references to Jesus derive from hearsay accounts written decades or centuries after his supposed death. These historical references generally refer to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus and, in some cases, directly contradict the Gospels or were deliberately manufactured.

The Gospels themselves contradict one-another on many key events and were constructed by unknown authors up to a century after the events they describe are said to have occurred. They are not eyewitness accounts. The New Testament, as a whole, contains many internal inconsistencies as a result of its piecemeal construction and is factually incorrect on several historical claims, such as the early existence of Nazareth, the reign of Herod and the Roman census. Like the Old Testament, it too has had entire books and sections redacted.

The Biblical account of Jesus has striking similarities with other mythologies and texts and many of his supposed teachings existed prior to his time. It is likely the character was either partly or entirely invented by competing first century messianic cults from an amalgamation of Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Judeo-Apocalyptic myths and prophecies.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.

I'm an atheist. I'm not agnostic. I don't play no just in casey games. LDS just happens to be the religion that I left. It's a cult.

I love the different spins different religions have to distinguish themselves. The born agains say you have to be born again as an adult. So all of us who were baptized as kids will burn in hell if we don't go to born again churches and get baptized again. Brilliant.

Or Joseph Smith prayed asking god which church he should join and god told him they were all corrupt and to start his own. That's brilliant too because who can argue that all the others are corrupt?

 

[sealybobo]

Not necessarily. Joseph Smith was convicted of fraud in New York. Incidentally, the stupid seer stone trick is the reason that they keep running into trouble afterwards. People leaving the church has been occurring for years. Since the internet it has been easier to share documents. No privacy and no boundaries. Pre-Mittens.

There is no evidence to support any of the claims made in the Bible concerning the existence of a god. Any ‘evidence’ proposed by theists to support the Bible’s various historical and supernatural claims is non-existent at best, manufactured at worst.

The Bible is not self-authenticating; it is simply one of many religious texts. Like those others, it itself constitutes no evidence for the existence of a god. Its florid prose and fanciful content do not legitimise it nor distinguish it from other ancient works of literature.

The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.

“Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” – Isaac Asimov

There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus’ existence or the Bible’s account of his life; no artefacts, dwellings, works of carpentry, self-written manuscripts, court records, eyewitness testimony, official diaries, birth records, reflections on his significance or written disputes about his teachings. Nothing survives from the time in which he is said to have lived.

All historical references to Jesus derive from hearsay accounts written decades or centuries after his supposed death. These historical references generally refer to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus and, in some cases, directly contradict the Gospels or were deliberately manufactured.

The Gospels themselves contradict one-another on many key events and were constructed by unknown authors up to a century after the events they describe are said to have occurred. They are not eyewitness accounts. The New Testament, as a whole, contains many internal inconsistencies as a result of its piecemeal construction and is factually incorrect on several historical claims, such as the early existence of Nazareth, the reign of Herod and the Roman census. Like the Old Testament, it too has had entire books and sections redacted.

The Biblical account of Jesus has striking similarities with other mythologies and texts and many of his supposed teachings existed prior to his time. It is likely the character was either partly or entirely invented by competing first century messianic cults from an amalgamation of Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Judeo-Apocalyptic myths and prophecies.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.

I'm an atheist. I'm not agnostic. I don't play no just in casey games. LDS just happens to be the religion that I left. It's a cult.

How do you know 100% certain that there is no god. Forget the jesus, jew, muslim or mormon god. I mean just god. There is no way to know 100% certain so the best position to take is agnostic atheism. Very skeptical that there is no god.

I can tell you that I'm 100% sure the jesus god story is made up and no god, if no existed, would care if you believed or didn't believe.

It would be like you caring about the Tardigrades you just swallowed.

 

[Disir]

There is no evidence to support any of the claims made in the Bible concerning the existence of a god. Any ‘evidence’ proposed by theists to support the Bible’s various historical and supernatural claims is non-existent at best, manufactured at worst.

The Bible is not self-authenticating; it is simply one of many religious texts. Like those others, it itself constitutes no evidence for the existence of a god. Its florid prose and fanciful content do not legitimise it nor distinguish it from other ancient works of literature.

The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.

“Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” – Isaac Asimov

There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus’ existence or the Bible’s account of his life; no artefacts, dwellings, works of carpentry, self-written manuscripts, court records, eyewitness testimony, official diaries, birth records, reflections on his significance or written disputes about his teachings. Nothing survives from the time in which he is said to have lived.

All historical references to Jesus derive from hearsay accounts written decades or centuries after his supposed death. These historical references generally refer to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus and, in some cases, directly contradict the Gospels or were deliberately manufactured.

The Gospels themselves contradict one-another on many key events and were constructed by unknown authors up to a century after the events they describe are said to have occurred. They are not eyewitness accounts. The New Testament, as a whole, contains many internal inconsistencies as a result of its piecemeal construction and is factually incorrect on several historical claims, such as the early existence of Nazareth, the reign of Herod and the Roman census. Like the Old Testament, it too has had entire books and sections redacted.

The Biblical account of Jesus has striking similarities with other mythologies and texts and many of his supposed teachings existed prior to his time. It is likely the character was either partly or entirely invented by competing first century messianic cults from an amalgamation of Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Judeo-Apocalyptic myths and prophecies.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.

I'm an atheist. I'm not agnostic. I don't play no just in casey games. LDS just happens to be the religion that I left. It's a cult.

See number 21 The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Why there is no god

Or number 8 It is a ‘god of the gaps’ approach. Our current lack of understanding concerning the Universe’s origins does not mean ‘god’ holds any explanatory value. Metaphysical and theistic speculation are not justified because we lack a comprehensive scientific model. Uncertainty is the most valid position and one can honestly say “We just don’t know yet”.

Do you have a point? I am truly not trying to be rude here.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm an atheist. I'm not agnostic. I don't play no just in casey games. LDS just happens to be the religion that I left. It's a cult.

See number 21 The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Why there is no god

Or number 8 It is a ‘god of the gaps’ approach. Our current lack of understanding concerning the Universe’s origins does not mean ‘god’ holds any explanatory value. Metaphysical and theistic speculation are not justified because we lack a comprehensive scientific model. Uncertainty is the most valid position and one can honestly say “We just don’t know yet”.

Do you have a point? I am truly not trying to be rude here.

Yes while I agree with you that there PROBABLY is no god, certainly not the one the bible or koran talks about, we can't say for certain their isn't a god so I'm just trying to point out to my fellow atheist friends that the most rational position is agnostic atheism.

My atheist buddy kept getting mad at me when I would tell him this until I showed him someone he respected saying it then he got it.

I'm not trying to leave room for a god. I'm just saying you don't know there isn't a god just like they don't know there is one.

Not that you need to provide proof that something doesn't exist but if you are going to claim you know 100% then I guess you should provide the evidence. You can't have it both ways. You want to say you know for certain without proof? What makes you different than them?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What It's Like to Go from a Hard-Core Catholic Upbringing to Atheism | Alternet

... Growing up, we went to mass every Sunday. I was baptized, received Holy Communion, went to confession, and was confirmed. I was raised to believe homosexuality, sex before marriage, and abortion are sins. I remember as a kid taking issue with all of those teachings and more, but I bit my tongue and strived to be the most devout little Catholic lady ever. When I turned 15, my dad went missing without explanation and my mom continued to go to mass. She’d sob her way through it every single time, and it wasn’t long before I refused to go with her anymore. I realized that the Catholic Church was, for me, a negative environment. I rarely go to mass now, except to accompany family.

So, a year ago, when my mom told me the story of the “miracle” of my conception, I had to sit down and think. If the Catholic Church had had such a big hand in my existence, what else had this organization that stands for so much I disagree with given me?

First, it had given my family a community to be part of. The Church had hosted so many events I went to as a kid and babysat me on Sundays while my parents went grocery shopping. It had been the one consistent thing in our lifestyle when I was growing up moving every 2 years around the world. Going to mass had been the one ritual that had remained constant whether we lived in Cote d’Ivoire, Botswana, Curacao, Virginia, wherever. As an international organization, I’ve seen the negative reaches of the Catholic Church, but it’d given me some sense of identity, too. Furthermore, I’d met some truly incredible Catholics — people who I respect the shit out of for the love and devotion I’ve seen them display.

Second, although the Bible is full of a lot of bullshit, it’s still a book that every person should read. It gives one incredible insight into history and is just plain interesting, honestly. Also, in between all the “stone your wife” and “kill your son” stuff, there are some pretty powerful and invaluable teachings in the Bible. Who doesn’t need to practice humility, love, respect, and patience more in their life? There isn’t a person alive who doesn’t benefit from some self-evaluation and reflection, and the Bible is provocative in that sense (and the Church in general promotes this).

When I was 15 and lost my virginity (fairly early), I thought I was going to Hell and cried for days. Little did I know that everyone in my family is very sexual and my parents did not wait until marriage to have sex. When I learned to masturbate, I felt incredible guilt and self-disgust, thinking it was a sin. When I made gay friends, I was embarrassed to bring them home to my parents. When I helped a friend with an abortion, I cried for days agonizing over not being able to talk to anyone about something that my friend had every right and good intentions in doing (and was a good choice, ultimately).

However, regardless of all this negativity the Church brought into my life (and there is much, much more), I have respect for my roots. I understand the things the Church has done for me, despite me not being a member in it. I refuse to demonize religion now as so many other atheists do, because I cannot deny that the Catholic Church has made me the person I am proud to be today.

My boyfriend is an avid atheist also, but a much more aggressive one. He believes religion is totally negative, that organized religion is inherently bad. So, we were talking the other day about our hypothetical kids and got into a huge fight.

Read the rest at the link.

Anyone else religious but became atheist or the other way around - atheist but became a believer?

I can't say I ever believed. I went to Sunday school because I was a kid and adults made my decisions. At 14, I finally planted my feet and never went back. No big epiphany, no light bulbs going on in my head. There were some family fights but there were always fights in my family.

I just never entertained the possibility that the story they were telling was true. I didn't buy it, not for one moment and I can remember sitting quietly in Sunday school class, and having to match up little cut out figures to felt covered boards and bible verses. I can remember looking around and wondering what the heck we were doing there. (It was an old church, lots of dark wood, mildew smell and cold and dank. I just hated being there.)

Except for the occasional wedding or funeral, I haven't been inside a church and have no plans to change that.

Anyone else?

(- and, please, would the bible thumpers restrain from their nasty-mouth preaching? If you want to discuss your own experience, I'd like to read it. If you want to post more miles of bible verses and insults, just please don't. Thanks)

Very similar to your experience. Born into it, we had a bad experience at Sunday school and my parents took us out but then for years we were still Greek Orthodox Christians. Christmas and Easter. I remember dogma christians would try to tell me the biblical stories and I never believed those stories but then my family just told me those are stories to teach a good message. But they never pointed out that even the jesus story might be made up too. But I never really bought into it all 100% either. However, maybe 10 years ago I promised to join the church ($500) if I got a job. I got the job so I joined. Then they started hitting me up and calling me and bugging me why I don't come every Sunday and the next year I didn't renew. Then maybe 6 months ago I ran into an atheist who woke me up completely. Because I still thought I had a personal relationship with god. I knew that none of what the bible thumpers were saying could possibly be true but I still believed in a god. Why? That's when my friends kept drilling it into my head, THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE IN A GOD. Then we got together and watched the Cosmos every week and then I watched a bunch of our best atheist debaters and I also found this site Why there is no god

Which is a pretty good site. It even admits that the best possible position to have is agnostic atheist because an atheist can't say they know for sure they know everything just like our theist counterparts don't know anything. But we don't claim to know. They do. And if you are going to make an extraordinary claim you better have some extraordinary proof.

Do you mean you had to pay $500 to join that particular church/religion?

Interesting link although I'm sure the thumpers wouldn't agree.

 

[sealybobo]

What It's Like to Go from a Hard-Core Catholic Upbringing to Atheism | Alternet



Read the rest at the link.

Anyone else religious but became atheist or the other way around - atheist but became a believer?

I can't say I ever believed. I went to Sunday school because I was a kid and adults made my decisions. At 14, I finally planted my feet and never went back. No big epiphany, no light bulbs going on in my head. There were some family fights but there were always fights in my family.

I just never entertained the possibility that the story they were telling was true. I didn't buy it, not for one moment and I can remember sitting quietly in Sunday school class, and having to match up little cut out figures to felt covered boards and bible verses. I can remember looking around and wondering what the heck we were doing there. (It was an old church, lots of dark wood, mildew smell and cold and dank. I just hated being there.)

Except for the occasional wedding or funeral, I haven't been inside a church and have no plans to change that.

Anyone else?

(- and, please, would the bible thumpers restrain from their nasty-mouth preaching? If you want to discuss your own experience, I'd like to read it. If you want to post more miles of bible verses and insults, just please don't. Thanks)

Very similar to your experience. Born into it, we had a bad experience at Sunday school and my parents took us out but then for years we were still Greek Orthodox Christians. Christmas and Easter. I remember dogma christians would try to tell me the biblical stories and I never believed those stories but then my family just told me those are stories to teach a good message. But they never pointed out that even the jesus story might be made up too. But I never really bought into it all 100% either. However, maybe 10 years ago I promised to join the church ($500) if I got a job. I got the job so I joined. Then they started hitting me up and calling me and bugging me why I don't come every Sunday and the next year I didn't renew. Then maybe 6 months ago I ran into an atheist who woke me up completely. Because I still thought I had a personal relationship with god. I knew that none of what the bible thumpers were saying could possibly be true but I still believed in a god. Why? That's when my friends kept drilling it into my head, THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE IN A GOD. Then we got together and watched the Cosmos every week and then I watched a bunch of our best atheist debaters and I also found this site Why there is no god

Which is a pretty good site. It even admits that the best possible position to have is agnostic atheist because an atheist can't say they know for sure they know everything just like our theist counterparts don't know anything. But we don't claim to know. They do. And if you are going to make an extraordinary claim you better have some extraordinary proof.

Do you mean you had to pay $500 to join that particular church/religion?

Interesting link although I'm sure the thumpers wouldn't agree.

Yes you have to pay to be a member. I remember actually it was more than $500 and I about shit my pants and I told them I could afford $500 and they accepted it. What a scam.

Me: How much is it to join?
Them: How much you got?

or

Me: How much is it to join?
Them: $5000
Me: I don't have that much
Them: How much can you afford?

And it isn't like I can tell you the 5 great things they did for humanity this year. I think they need all the money they can get because their numbers are dwindling. You go and it's pathetic. It's all old people and maybe some young women and men who are looking to get married or who just had a baby and are going to be getting baptized. After that they usually disappear until their kids are ready to get married. We use to have a ton of churches all around Metro Detroit and slowly but surely churches are closing and they have to combine 2 churches into one in order to stay a float. I don't feel bad. They have a bad product. It was ingenious before everyone woke up and realized its all a scam. Great place to go meet people, socialize, find a wife. Unfortunately the churches aren't changing fast enough with the times and like a business if you don't change with the times eventually you will go out of business.

I guess socialization and eternal salvation aren't enough for people to give up 10% of their income.

 

[Blackrook]

My relationship with God is not the best it could be, but I still believe he exists. I do not think science can explain how the universe got here. Also, humans seem to be very complicated creations rather than the result of random chance. I mean, if you threw a bunch of car parts in the air, they wouldn't assemble themselves into a car.

 

[Avatar4321]

My relationship with God is not the best it could be, but I still believe he exists. I do not think science can explain how the universe got here. Also, humans seem to be very complicated creations rather than the result of random chance. I mean, if you threw a bunch of car parts in the air, they wouldn't assemble themselves into a car.

The Lord is always there ready for you to get to know Him better.

 

[Moonglow]

I am still playing The Prodigal Son, I'll get back to ya later...