Gay marriage legal in Massachussetts

[mattskramer]

Once gay marraige is legal and recognized, gays will be able to:
visit a partner or a partner's child in a hospital;
inherit from the partner if she or he doesn't have a valid will;
obtain joint health, home and auto insurance policies;
enter joint rental agreements;
make medical decisions on a partner's behalf in event of illness;
take bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or a partner's child;
choose a final resting place for a deceased partner;
obtain wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
get an equitable division of property in a divorce;
have joint child custody, visitation, adoption and foster care;
determine child custody and support in a divorce;
have a spouse covered under Social Security and Medicare;
file joint tax returns;
obtain veterans' discounts on medical care, education and home loans;
apply for immigration and residency for partners from other countries; and
obtain domestic violence protective orders.

Check out a long list of things gays can't do:

http://www.pflag.org/education/marriage.html

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
Matts you completely amaze us common sense and logic folks by making ridiculous comparisons of homosexuality to things such as handstands, do you realize how ridiculous you sound to all of us? I refuse to argue with somebody so obviously lacking in debating skills. This is done, my points were concise, you had no points. Nothing was soundly refuted as moral relativism soundly defeats itself in its lack of, well anything solid.

Your refusal to accept facts, such as the AIDS fact(the stats are in this thread) also reveals a lack of serious debating skills. What is it that you want or don't get? The facts have been laid out for you by me and many others, its up to you whether you accept them or refuse them it makes no difference to me which you choose.

If you want to go ahead and trivialize the subject by using completely ridiculous comparisons then fine be my guest but know that you are suffering a credibility issue at the same time you make ridiculous arguments.

Yeah - And the moon is made of green cheese. Close your eyes and cover your ears. Whatever.

I could say "One plus one is two" and you would still claim that I said no such thing. Anyone thinking rationally and logically could easily tell that I soundly refuted each of your arguments. At least one of the moderators, weeks ago, finally explained to me what is evidently the real reason why people are opposed to gay marriage. Face it. They simply don't want people to have it. They don't like it. It is simple discrimination based on taste.

Well...It is unnatural -
walking on your hands is unnatural.
Well...ummm. I don't like it -
I don't like Cheeseburgers.
Gee...uhhh. AIDS! I got ya there -
What does that have to do with marriage?
They can't have children -
Surrogate mothers and sperm donors are available
(What were the other attempts at reasons to outlaw gay marriage?)
Oh yes. According to the Bible, God disapproves -
There are Atheists
What else - Oh - let's just give them civil unions -
And let's go back to the days of "separate but equal"

Face it. There is no sound and logical reason why gays should not be allowed to marry.

 

[OCA]

Close my eyes and cover my ears? LOL! HAHAHA! Matts why don't you tell me again how pushups equates to homosexuality I think that was relevant.

Listen, to put it simply if you think that homosexuality is not perverse and vile on the same level with bestiality etc. etc. then you've got some serious issues with common sense, logic and right and wrong in your own life. I hope you one day get the help you need and are finally able to deal with it.

He uses pflag as a source LMAO!

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Marriage, just like employment, is not a "right".

I get really agitated when morons like to inject their own rights into the Constitution. It is disgraceful to our nation and its foundations.

Yes, but the the legal benefits that come with marriage, such as the tax benefits, hospital visitation, inheritance, and a myriad of other attendant benefits ARE rights bestowed by the state upon married couples.

Now, if same gender couples cannot have fair and equal access to all of those benefits through the institution of marriage, how else are they supposed to get them? They can obtain legal instruments which provide some of these rights and priviledges, but only at a sometimes prohibitively high cost, and these legal instruments are nowhere near as secure as the same rights obtained through marriage.

Again, there is no rational argument for denying the institution of marriage to same gender couples

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Yes, but the the legal benefits that come with marriage, such as the tax benefits, hospital visitation, inheritance, and a myriad of other attendant benefits ARE rights bestowed by the state upon married couples.

Now, if same gender couples cannot have fair and equal access to all of those benefits through the institution of marriage, how else are they supposed to get them? They can obtain legal instruments which provide some of these rights and priviledges, but only at a sometimes prohibitively high cost, and these legal instruments are nowhere near as secure as the same rights obtained through marriage.

Again, there is no rational argument for denying the institution of marriage to same gender couples

They can access those rights by marrying someone of the opposite sex. Simple solution. They marry a gal friend that they like to hang out with so much and bang their buddy on the side. Everyone is happy.

Homosexuals are not currently being denied access to anything in the United States Of America. You've bought their lie hook, line and sinker.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by OCA
Close my eyes and cover my ears? LOL! HAHAHA! Matts why don't you tell me again how pushups equates to homosexuality I think that was relevant.

Listen, to put it simply if you think that homosexuality is not perverse and vile on the same level with bestiality etc. etc. then you've got some serious issues with common sense, logic and right and wrong in your own life. I hope you one day get the help you need and are finally able to deal with it.

He uses pflag as a source LMAO!

Pushups equate to homosexuality in the same way your fears of homosexuality equate the the end of the world as we know it.

If you think homosexuality is as perverse and vile as beastiality, necrophilia, ets...You sir are the one having problems with common sense, logic, right and wrong. I submit that it is you who is in dire need of some intensive, long-term psychotherapy.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Yes, but the the legal benefits that come with marriage, such as the tax benefits, hospital visitation, inheritance, and a myriad of other attendant benefits ARE rights bestowed by the state upon married couples.

Now, if same gender couples cannot have fair and equal access to all of those benefits through the institution of marriage, how else are they supposed to get them? They can obtain legal instruments which provide some of these rights and priviledges, but only at a sometimes prohibitively high cost, and these legal instruments are nowhere near as secure as the same rights obtained through marriage.

Again, there is no rational argument for denying the institution of marriage to same gender couples

Well put! I don't think that I could have explained it better - And all OCA would do is ignore my list and laugh at the fact that I found the list on PFLAG. Real sound logic on his part. (smirk)

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by OCA
They can access those rights by marrying someone of the opposite sex. Simple solution. They marry a gal friend that they like to hang out with so much and bang their buddy on the side. Everyone is happy.

Homosexuals are not currently being denied access to anything in the United States Of America. You've bought their lie hook, line and sinker.

So, you would have a gay or lesbian pretend to be something thery're not (straight), and create one more fucked up, dysfunctional family that produces more fucked-up and dysfunctional kids, and ending in divorce when neither the husband or the wife can stand the sham any longer. Yeah, that's some alternative.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Pushups equate to homosexuality in the same way your fears of homosexuality equate the the end of the world as we know it.

If you think homosexuality is as perverse and vile as beastiality, necrophilia, ets...You sir are the one having problems with common sense, logic, right and wrong. I submit that it is you who is in dire need of some intensive, long-term psychotherapy.

Lets see, sticking you willy in another mans anus is not perverse and vile and does not note a mental disorder....ah I get it Lol continue on gentleman i'm loving watching you guys relegate yourselves to obscurity with every passing post of yours.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
So, you would have a gay or lesbian pretend to be something thery're not (straight), and create one more fucked up, dysfunctional family that produces more fucked-up and dysfunctional kids, and ending in divorce when neither the husband or the wife can stand the sham any longer. Yeah, that's some alternative.

Where did I say anything about kids? If your homosexual you shouldn't be allowed to raise children anyway because of the obvious detriments to the childs well being.

Bully they get married just for the legality, they don't have to spend time together.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
Lets see, sticking you willy in another mans anus is not perverse and vile and does not note a mental disorder....ah I get it Lol continue on gentleman i'm loving watching you guys relegate yourselves to obscurity with every passing post of yours.

Oral sex. Now that is vile. You just are not supposed to put those things in people's mouths. Yuck. People who engage in such behavior need a shrink. Come on, people! Let's outlaw it.

See? When you get right down to it, just about the only excuse anti-gay-marriage people have is that they find it disgusting.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by OCA
Where did I say anything about kids? If your homosexual you shouldn't be allowed to raise children anyway because of the obvious detriments to the childs well being.

Bully they get married just for the legality, they don't have to spend time together.

Sorry, but a sham's a sham. Given the arrangement you've desribed, issues of inheritance, hospital visitation, medical decisions on behalf of a partner, etc still cannot be addressed. Again, your argument falls flat on its face. Go take your meds and try again later.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Well put! I don't think that I could have explained it better - And all OCA would do is ignore my list and laugh at the fact that I found the list on PFLAG. Real sound logic on his part. (smirk)

Because currently they are not being denied any rights in the U.S., all they have to do is marry someone of the opposite sex. Your list is irrelevant Matts, but please continue on it shouldn't be long before you hit bottom.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Oral sex. Now that is vile. You just are not supposed to put those things in people's mouths. Yuck. People who engage in such behavior need a shrink. Come on, people! Let's outlaw it.

See? When you get right down to it, just about the only excuse anti-gay-marriage people have is that they find it disgusting.

Oral sex, anal sex whatever, the key words which you can't get past is between MAN AND WOMAN, thats it. The concept is the cornerstone of the civilized world. No matter how you put it you can't get around that 1 little fact.

Matts I suggest you reread this thread and any thread on USMB about gay marriage, we have trashed and retrashed the othersides arguments so many times i've lost count. The fact remains that as of this very moment gay are not being denied any right in America, they must marry someone of the opposite sex in order to access the benes of marriage. NO SPECIAL RIGHTS!

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
Where did I say anything about kids? If your homosexual you shouldn't be allowed to raise children anyway because of the obvious detriments to the childs well being.

Bully they get married just for the legality, they don't have to spend time together.

Yeah. Gays should never adopt kids, no matter how good and loving and supportive the gay couple may be. Gays should just let the overcrowded and impersonal orphanages take care of the little ones.

The main detriment to the child's well being is, to a strong degree, is due to the discriminatory attitudes of those opposed to gays having children. Half-breeds faced the same problems years ago.

Gays want to get married so that (as a married couple) they can enjoy the long list of rights that heterosexual married couples have.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
Oral sex, anal sex whatever, the key words which you can't get past is between MAN AND WOMAN, thats it. The concept is the cornerstone of the civilized world. No matter how you put it you can't get around that 1 little fact.

Matts I suggest you reread this thread and any thread on USMB about gay marriage, we have trashed and retrashed the othersides arguments so many times i've lost count. The fact remains that as of this very moment gay are not being denied any right in America, they must marry someone of the opposite sex in order to access the benes of marriage. NO SPECIAL RIGHTS!

I accept the fact that marriage between a man and a woman is the cornerstone of a civilized world. Yet, a building consists of more than just the cornerstone. There are other stones too. There is no need to "get around it". Some people even choose not to get married. Even if gay marriage becomes legal nationwide, you will still have your cornerstones. There will still be heterosexual marriages.

I agree that in order to have the rights that heterosexual MARRIED couples have the gays must get MARRIED. Since they prefer to have loving relationships with members of the same sex, they should be allowed to marry people of the same sex and, thereby, have the rights applied to them as homosexually MARRIED couples.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Sorry, but a sham's a sham. Given the arrangement you've desribed, issues of inheritance, hospital visitation, medical decisions on behalf of a partner, etc still cannot be addressed. Again, your argument falls flat on its face. Go take your meds and try again later.

I'm not exactly sure why i'm arguing here given your dubious history on this board and your obvious lack of ability to deal with reality but here goes anyway. Prove to me that by my described arrangement that gays would be denied inheritance, hospital visitation and medical decisions to their MARRIED PARTNER. Of course they would be denied those decisions to their butt buddy just like I can't make those decisions for a lifelong friend unless granted power of attorney. Ahhhh there is the solution, grant their butt buddy power of attorney.

This really is all mute because oh along about 2006 Bush and congress will pass the constitutional ban and we can all move on.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by mattskramer
I agree that in order to have the rights that heterosexual MARRIED couples have the gays must get MARRIED. Since they prefer to have loving relationships with members of the same sex, they should be allowed to marry people of the same sex and, thereby, have the rights applied to them as homosexually MARRIED couples.

Read above message about constitutional ban.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Yeah. Gays should never adopt kids, no matter how good and loving and supportive the gay couple may be. Gays should just let the overcrowded and impersonal orphanages take care of the little ones.

The main detriment to the child's well being is, to a strong degree, is due to the discriminatory attitudes of those opposed to gays having children. Half-breeds faced the same problems years ago.

Gays want to get married so that (as a married couple) they can enjoy the long list of rights that heterosexual married couples have.

What about polygamy, pedophiles? Should they be denied the same rights if we are going to officially recognize one perverse behavior?

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
I'm not exactly sure why i'm arguing here given your dubious history on this board and your obvious lack of ability to deal with reality but here goes anyway. Prove to me that by my described arrangement that gays would be denied inheritance, hospital visitation and medical decisions to their MARRIED PARTNER. Of course they would be denied those decisions to their butt buddy just like I can't make those decisions for a lifelong friend unless granted power of attorney. Ahhhh there is the solution, grant their butt buddy power of attorney.

This really is all mute because oh along about 2006 Bush and congress will pass the constitutional ban and we can all move on.

Heterosexual couples should not have to face the costly and time-consuming hassle of getting "power of attorney". Allowing homosexual marriage would simplify the matter. There is the solution. People doubted that any state would allow gay marriage. I doubt that a constitutional ban will pass.