Gay marriage legal in Massachussetts

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by OCA
Nah NYC/Chippewa you just didn't like the look in the mirror is all. The truth is upsetting sometimes, isn't it?

Keep it up.
The world awaits your "proof" that you are normal and your explanation of why gays don't deserve the same rights that you do.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by nycflasher
I think homosexuals deserve equal rights to heterosexuals both as American citizens and human beings.

And more or less, they have them! So apparently the law and dare I say the majority are on my side.

Correct. They are born with the right to marry someone of the opposite sex like all NORMAL Americans, anything more is special rights and they are not a born minority. But the law does not protect them without the help of a few well placed judges. Lets put this issue to a nationwide vote, shall we? Nah you know you'll lose.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Keep it up.
The world awaits your "proof" that you are normal and your explanation of why gays don't deserve the same rights that you do.

Marriage, just like employment, is not a "right".

I get really agitated when morons like to inject their own rights into the Constitution. It is disgraceful to our nation and its foundations.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by OCA
Correct. They are born with the right to marry someone of the opposite sex like all NORMAL Americans, anything more is special rights and they are not a born minority. But the law does not protect them without the help of a few well placed judges. Lets put this issue to a nationwide vote, shall we? Nah you know you'll lose.

So you don't disagree with what I said in my penultimate post then?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Not bad. I think that the average family consists of 2.5 kids so you have half of a kid too many.

Wow that was almost intelligent. Thanks for insulting all upstanding 3 kid American families. You guys are digging that hole deeper by the minute.

Anybody care to answer my question i've been posing for the lasr few days? Or will you continur to dodge it like you dodge the truth about homosexuals?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by nycflasher
So you don't disagree with what I said in my penultimate post then?

Yes and no. Homosexuals can get married to someone of the OPPOSITE sex and then cheat on them. There I have solved the problem for both sides.

As for your assertion they are being denied rights that is completely false, they are born with all the same inalienable rights that you and I do.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
Wow that was almost intelligent. Thanks for insulting all upstanding 3 kid American families. You guys are digging that hole deeper by the minute.

Anybody care to answer my question i've been posing for the lasr few days? Or will you continur to dodge it like you dodge the truth about homosexuals?

Oh no!! I offended someone.

Yadda yadda yadda. I think that I answered each of your questions. I may have missed one. Which one did you want answered?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by OCA
Wow that was almost intelligent. Thanks for insulting all upstanding 3 kid American families. You guys are digging that hole deeper by the minute.

Anybody care to answer my question i've been posing for the lasr few days? Or will you continur to dodge it like you dodge the truth about homosexuals?

It was a joke, silly.
Much like the one you have turned this thread into. This thread was supposed to be about gay marriage: to be or not to be.

If you want to talk about your disdain for homosexuals why not start another thread. I'm sure we could hit 500 posts pretty quick.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Oh no!! I offended someone.

Yadda yadda yadda. I think that I answered each of your questions. I may have missed one. Which one did you want answered?

Prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt, in other words rock solid, definitive scientific evidence, that homosexuality is normal and natural and therefore that they are born homosexuals. Also prove to me that homosexuals lack the ability to reason between right and wrong, since no sane person will tell you that homosexuality is the right road to go down, and I will stand corrected. Good luck.

 

[mattskramer]

Good. I like challenges. I hope that you will show the intellectual honesty of not reading information into my reply that does not exist. Please take my reply for what it is and nothing more. I will treat your challenge in the same manner.

Challenge number 1:

Prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt, in other words rock solid, definitive scientific evidence, that homosexuality is normal and natural and therefore that they are born homosexuals.

I prefer straight challenges (challenges without imbedded assumptions) but for the sake of argument, I will agree with your imbedded assumption in challenge number 1. I will even expand upon my reply to encompass your assumption.

I can't at this time prove that homosexuality is normal. I can't at this time prove that homosexuality is natural. I can't prove that people are born homosexuals. I do not have ready access to statistical and/or scientific information supporting any allegation that homosexuality is normal and/or natural and/or that people are born homosexuals.

I do not know whether or not homosexuality is normal and/or natural and/or that people are born homosexuals.

Challenge number 2:

Also prove to me that homosexuals lack the ability to reason between right and wrong, since no sane person will tell you that homosexuality is the right road to go down, and I will stand corrected.

This challenge includes an assumption to which I disagree. Therefore it is an erroneous challenge. Yet, I will reply to it in sections.

"Also prove to me that homosexuals lack the ability to reason between right and wrong..."
I do not know whether or not homosexuals lack the ability to reason between right and wrong. I have not read any scientific data discussion the ethics of homosexuals. If they are adults I think that they are able to reason between right and wrong to the degree that heterosexuals are able to reason between right and wrong.

"...since no sane person will tell you that homosexuality is the right road to go down"
I disagree. There are sane individuals who will tell you that, at least for them, homosexuality is the right road for them to go down. They would technically be considered sane by many people within the medical and psychological disciplines.

 

[mattskramer]

Now. I answered your specific challenge with specific answers. Moving beyond that, I think that you have hidden assumptions that you did not post within your challenge. Is it your opinion that those activities that are not natural should not be allowed? If so, we can continue to debate that. I think that I have already demonstrated that just because something is not natural does not mean, in and of itself, that it should be outlawed.

 

[OCA]

My opinion is that biologically speaking it has been proven for centuries now that humans are born with an innate attraction to the opposite sex. Therefore since that is a commonly accepted truth my opinion is, and its based on sound logic and common sense that homosexuality is a choice and when an individual makes that choice which is against nature and biology that denotes some sort of malfunction or sickness. Just like we would treat a person who has autism or terrets syndrome so should the person who has demonstrated this lack of understanding between right and wrong be treated.

Listen I know what you are going to say, that who am I or anyone else to say that homosexuality is a wrong choice, its common sense and logic, look at the parts on a man and woman they were made to fit together, there is no denying this. Any doctor will tell you that the rectum was not made to recieve, its simple medical science and biology.

You or nobody else will ever be able to find or prove a genetic, neurologic etc. etc. link to homosexuals being born that way, it just doesn't exist and its not like the homosexual leadership has not poured hundreds of millions of dollars into finding this link because they have and still nothing, doesn't that tell you something?

Now as for it being outlawed, no I don't think gay sex should be outlawed but marriage? Yes I do. If something is so obviously wrong and self destructive ie AIDS which is astronomically more prevalent within the homosexual community and against all commonly held scientific and biological facts why should these people be allowed to be married and raise children? Have we as a nation gone nuts?

Also why are psychiatrists and psychanalysts who subscribe to the theory that homosexuality is a treatable mental disorder disbarred and shouted down? Could it be the homosexual community knows its little secret and doesn't want it to get out?

Hmm these are my thoughts. I'm glad though you weren't like the rest of these guys and try to b./s. there way around the evidence question.

I forgot the imbedded assumptions deal, as commonly held beliefs by the majority it is up to the minority to disprove them or the commonly held belief will be regarded to be true until such time as it is disproved so no imbedded assumptions by me. There are examples of the majority opinion being disproved for example interracial marriage was once upon a time thought to be immoral and wrong, that is my only point there.

 

[mattskramer]

Your statements have already been made and soundly refuted but I'll tear it apart and tear it up again.

My opinion is that biologically speaking it has been proven for centuries now that humans are born with an innate attraction to the opposite sex. Therefore since that is a commonly accepted truth my opinion is, and its based on sound logic and common sense that homosexuality is a choice and when an individual makes that choice which is against nature and biology that denotes some sort of malfunction or sickness. Just like we would treat a person who has autism or terrets syndrome so should the person who has demonstrated this lack of understanding between right and wrong be treated.

I just made a choice to stand on my hands. It is a choice against nature and biology. I must have a malfunction or sickness.

Listen I know what you are going to say, that who am I or anyone else to say that homosexuality is a wrong choice, its common sense and logic, look at the parts on a man and woman they were made to fit together, there is no denying this. Any doctor will tell you that the rectum was not made to recieve, its simple medical science and biology.

Hands were not meant to serve as feet or to be stood on. The bridge of your nose was not meant to hold glasses. Your fingernails were not meant to be chewed.

You or nobody else will ever be able to find or prove a genetic, neurologic etc. etc. link to homosexuals being born that way, it just doesn't exist and its not like the homosexual leadership has not poured hundreds of millions of dollars into finding this link because they have and still nothing, doesn't that tell you something?

It does not matter whether or not people are born certain way or not. I'm stronger than I thought that I was. I just walked across the room on my forearms. That was quite unusual but I liked it. Please don't attempt to outlaw it.

Now as for it being outlawed, no I don't think gay sex should be outlawed but marriage? Yes, I do. If something is so obviously wrong and self destructive ie AIDS which is astronomically more prevalent within the homosexual community and against all commonly held scientific and biological facts why should these people be allowed to be married and raise children? Have we as a nation gone nuts?

Wouldn't allowing gay marriage promote monogamy among homosexuals? Perhaps not. Look at what it does for heterosexuals. Abused wives; abused and abandoned children are plentiful. Assuming that AIDS is more common among homosexuals than among heterosexuals, what does it have to do with gay marriage. If anything, it may reduce promiscuity. Being gay does not cause AIDS. It is caused by the transmission of the HIV virus via sexual fluids and blood.

Also why are psychiatrists and psychanalysts who subscribe to the theory that homosexuality is a treatable mental disorder disbarred and shouted down? Could it be the homosexual community knows its little secret and doesn't want it to get out?

Where are your statistics on this? It seems to me that many in the medical and psychological field are screaming that homosexual behavior is a serious disease that is in need of a cure. It seems as though conservatives are trying to silence the gay community. Anyway, the decibels don't matter. We live in a nation that, to a strong degree, supports freedom of speech and there are many means by which people may voice their opinion as right or wrong as the opinion may be.


Hmm these are my thoughts. I'm glad though you weren't like the rest of these guys and try to b./s. there way around the evidence question.

Thanks

I forgot the imbedded assumptions deal, as commonly held beliefs by the majority it is up to the minority to disprove them or the commonly held belief will be regarded to be true until such time as it is disproved so no imbedded assumptions by me. There are examples of the majority opinion being disproved for example interracial marriage was once upon a time thought to be immoral and wrong, that is my only point there.

Grammatically and logically, your challenge "Also prove to me that homosexuals lack the ability to reason between right and wrong, since no sane person will tell you that homosexuality is the right road to go down..." includes the assumption that "no sane person will tell you that homosexuality is the right road to go down". To be a clear and legitimate challenge it would have been sufficient to say "prove to me that homosexuals lack the ability to reason between right and wrong".

 

[mattskramer]

Wow! This is a long thread. I don't mind if it gets closed soon. I just hope that whoever locks it does so without taking a last second cheap shot.

 

[KLSuddeth]

ok, let me make sure that Im understanding the view point on this:
homosexuality is unnatural
homosexuality is disgusting
homosexuality is offensive
homosexuality is immoral
homosexuality is abnormal
homosexuality is the downfall of the country/world

Well seems to me that most of this is figured from the standpoint of morality. We MUST keep the morals of america at a high level.

With that in mind, Ive decided that pornography offends me. Its disgusting, how can it be normal and you KNOW its not natural. same with the porn internet sites. Milfhunter, teenporn, etc etc etc. How can these things contribute to the high moral standard that so many of you are saying that allowing gays to marry is tearing down? Doesnt quite compute......HOWEVER, I bet Im going to get a few responses and/or PMs explaining to me how porn is ok but loving relationships are not.

Bring it on, baby.
You will not win.

I guarantee it.

 

[OCA]

Matts you completely amaze us common sense and logic folks by making ridiculous comparisons of homosexuality to things such as handstands, do you realize how ridiculous you sound to all of us? I refuse to argue with somebody so obviously lacking in debating skills. This is done, my points were concise, you had no points. Nothing was soundly refuted as moral relativism soundly defeats itself in its lack of, well anything solid.

Your refusal to accept facts, such as the AIDS fact(the stats are in this thread) also reveals a lack of serious debating skills. What is it that you want or don't get? The facts have been laid out for you by me and many others, its up to you whether you accept them or refuse them it makes no difference to me which you choose.

If you want to go ahead and trivialize the subject by using completely ridiculous comparisons then fine be my guest but know that you are suffering a credibility issue at the same time you make ridiculous arguments.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
ok, let me make sure that Im understanding the view point on this:
homosexuality is unnatural
homosexuality is disgusting
homosexuality is offensive
homosexuality is immoral
homosexuality is abnormal
homosexuality is the downfall of the country/world

Well seems to me that most of this is figured from the standpoint of morality. We MUST keep the morals of america at a high level.

With that in mind, Ive decided that pornography offends me. Its disgusting, how can it be normal and you KNOW its not natural. same with the porn internet sites. Milfhunter, teenporn, etc etc etc. How can these things contribute to the high moral standard that so many of you are saying that allowing gays to marry is tearing down? Doesnt quite compute......HOWEVER, I bet Im going to get a few responses and/or PMs explaining to me how porn is ok but loving relationships are not.

Bring it on, baby.
You will not win.

I guarantee it.

Baby you can get rid of all the porn in the U.S., I don't care. My life is a hetero porn flick, I should start filming!

Yeah i'm not a hypocrite go ahead get rid of the porn thats fine. The overreaching question still is though the natural and normal question. Were two males or two females meant to be together in a relationship the manner in which marriage denotes? I say no and so does the majority of America. Lets put this issue to rest with a national vote, any takers?

 

[KLSuddeth]

lol OCA - why did I know you'd be among the first to respond??
: : : :

I have no doubt that the majority is not in agreement with me - I dont need a vote and neither do you.....you know its not in agreement with me either.

It IS how I truly feel though. In my heart. I cant stand against it.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
lol OCA - why did I know you'd be among the first to respond??
: : : :

I have no doubt that the majority is not in agreement with me - I dont need a vote and neither do you.....you know its not in agreement with me either.

It IS how I truly feel though. In my heart. I cant stand against it.

This I can respect, I know that not everyone is going to agree with me and i'm not out to change everybody's minds(just a few : ) but I do fear that this is a precedent that will be set that will pave the way for things such as polygamy etc. etc. Its been proven hell that lawyers will try anything and they will have gay marriage to point to as the precedent so don't say it won't or can't happen.

Thanks for not using dumbass comparisons such as handstands or glaases on the bridge of the nose grrrrrr that stuff is ridiculous and childish.

 

[007]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Prostitution should be legal in my view, so that argument is a no go on me.

Even though I've defended the biological argument that it's not a choice, I still don't see why they're not happy with civil unions. It's a ridiculous symbolic argument on both sides.

It's certainly a "ridiculous argument" on ONE of the sides, and I think we all know which one that is.