Gay marriage legal in Massachussetts

[OCA]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Indeed, you do want to judge others. They are to be judged by the consequences of their actions upon themselves and others.

You equate objective morality rooted in the consequences to <b><i>this</i></b> life and in <b><i>this</i></b> world with the mindless nihilism of moral relativism. And it is just not so. If one's actions lead to the harm of oneself, or to the harm of others, or to the harm of both, that action may be proscribed by law. Such a proscrition is based upon the real consequences of that action here...now...and not in some mythical, airy-fairy, metaphysical dreamworld of an afterlife.

Based upon that premise, there is no rational basis for denying the institution of marriage to same gender couples.

Bully we have laws against bestiality and prostitution off the top of my head and both are victimless crimes and only hurt the participants yet both are illegal because both are immoral. So shall the same be for homosexuality.

Prove to me that two people of the same sex copulating is normal and natural and not vile and dispicable and I will stand corrected.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Why do you keep making it appear right and wrong are to be determined only by the parties performing the actions?

You just invalidated the entire legal system and Bible.

Get over it. Moral Relativism is not logical, and it doesn't work.

Right and wrong are determined by the consequences of our actions, and not by the parties performing them.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by OCA
Bully we have laws against bestiality and prostitution off the top of my head and both are victimless crimes and only hurt the participants yet both are illegal because both are immoral. So shall the same be for homosexuality.

Prove to me that two people of the same sex copulating is normal and natural and not vile and dispicable and I will stand corrected.

1) How do commit bestiality and prostitution off the top of your head? Seems like a strange place to do it.

2) Prove to us that you having sex with anyone is not vile and dispicable. I'm curious how a "proof" like that works...

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by nycflasher
1) How do commit bestiality and prostitution off the top of your head? Seems like a strange place to do it.

2) Prove to us that you having sex with anyone is not vile and dispicable. I'm curious how a "proof" like that works...

Did you forget the PMS pills? You just insulted the guy for no reason.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by OCA
Bully we have laws against bestiality and prostitution off the top of my head and both are victimless crimes and only hurt the participants yet both are illegal because both are immoral. So shall the same be for homosexuality.

Prove to me that two people of the same sex copulating is normal and natural and not vile and dispicable and I will stand corrected.

Indeed, and part of the basis of a rational and objective morality lies in the consequences of one's actions upon oneself. You didn't read very closely, so let me spell it out for you again:

<blockquote>If one's actions lead to the <b>harm of oneself</b>, or to the <b>harm of others</b>, or to the <b>harm of both</b>, that action may be proscribed by law.</blockquote>

Your analogies fail.

 

[mattskramer]

Careful. Don't let your emotions run away with you.

Matt why do you continue to make assinine comparisons?

Why do you make such asinine excuses?

Your moral relativism is a joke and is one of the major factors contributing to the social ills in America today.

Your repressive self-righteous attitude is a major factor contributing to the social ills of many individuals today.

Why do you want to be a fence rider(jellyfish)?

I am not a fence rider. I have specific views on specific issues.

Are you afraid of offending someone?

I don't think so. Have I offended you yet? If I did, I'm not afraid.

...two people of the same sex should not copulate and therefore logically have no valid reason to be married.

Who is to say that two people of the same sex should not copulate? Even if they are not to copulate, who is to say that those who don't copulate shouldn't get married? People should be free to copulate or not - get married or not - as they see fit.

I'm not going to reiterate my or anybody else's reasons as they are all over this board and proven in various ways.

No, they are not there. There are some amusing attempts that fall flat when challenged. They were nice attempts anyway.

 

[OCA]

Flasher knws that I know that he's morally bankrupt, thats another story.

Anyway, moral relativism=weakness. Moral relativists are afraid to take a position on any topic out of fear that they would offend somebody which is an unpardonable sin to them so they sit on the fence and crow like a rooster going through life afraid to get off and take a stand. Simple.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Indeed, and part of the basis of a rational and objective morality lies in the consequences of one's actions upon oneself. You didn't read very closely, so let me spell it out for you again:

<blockquote>If one's actions lead to the <b>harm of oneself</b>, or to the <b>harm of others</b>, or to the <b>harm of both</b>, that action may be proscribed by law.</blockquote>

Your analogies fail.

You are incorrect.

Harming another's property also is adressed by law. Even if it is an unforseen side effect, responsibility is required for actions.

Property as a non-living entity, but an EXTENSION of ones self is allowed to have a defense position. This is also seen with income compensation.

So, in essence, actions have immesurable consequence not just on living things directly involved, but living things and non-living things directly and indirectly involved.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Did you forget the PMS pills? You just insulted the guy for no reason.

Not an insult.
OCA has been asking people for days to prove things like "gays are normal" and stuff like that.

I'm asking him to prove that he's "normal" is all...lol.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by mattskramer

OCA: I'm not going to reiterate my or anybody else's reasons as they are all over this board and proven in various ways.

No, they are not there. There are some amusing attempts that fall flat when challenged. They were nice attempts anyway.

Gee. Thats funny, Matt.

You have yet to disprove ANY of my statements.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by OCA
Flasher knws that I know that he's morally bankrupt, thats another story.

Anyway, moral relativism=weakness. Moral relativists are afraid to take a position on any topic out of fear that they would offend somebody which is an unpardonable sin to them so they sit on the fence and crow like a rooster going through life afraid to get off and take a stand. Simple.

When you have no answer...insult the other guy.
Good job.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Indeed, and part of the basis of a rational and objective morality lies in the consequences of one's actions upon oneself. You didn't read very closely, so let me spell it out for you again:

<blockquote>If one's actions lead to the <b>harm of oneself</b>, or to the <b>harm of others</b>, or to the <b>harm of both</b>, that action may be proscribed by law.</blockquote>

Your analogies fail.

Bully you're wrong, well no actually I take that back you are right homosexuality is a harm to oneself, just check out AIDS rates among homosexuals. Is that not a harm to oneself? Don't compare it to heterosexuals either the rates are astronomically higher among homosexuals. The stats are right here on this board, go ahead and look them up and thanks for pointing that out to me.

BTW what are you gonna do when GWB gets the constitutional ban passed oh about 2006?

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
... both are illegal because both are immoral.
[/B]

Just because something is illegal, it does not follow that it is illegal because it is immoral. Something that is illegal is not necessarily immoral. Something may have become illegal for a variety of reasons. Congressmen are pressured and/or bribed by lobbyists and special interest groups.

Keep trying.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by NewGuy
You are incorrect.

Harming another's property also is adressed by law. Even if it is an unforseen side effect, responsibility is required for actions.

Property as a non-living entity, but an EXTENSION of ones self is allowed to have a defense position. This is also seen with income compensation.

So, in essence, actions have immesurable consequence not just on living things directly involved, but living things and non-living things directly and indirectly involved.

In doing harm to another's property, harm is done to the owner of said property in terms of financial loss, emotional pain if there was a particular attachment to said property or fear resulting from the possibilities of furhter attacks against said property.

So, you see, harm comes in many forms, physical, psychological, finanancial...It is not solely limited to physical harm against one's own person.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Not an insult.
OCA has been asking people for days to prove things like "gays are normal" and stuff like that.

I'm asking him to prove that he's "normal" is all...lol.

I have a WIFE and 3 kids and use one nic, how much more normal would you like?

You on the other hand think homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality, need I say more?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Just because something is illegal, it does not follow that it is illegal because it is immoral. Something that is illegal is not necessarily immoral. Something may have become illegal for a variety of reasons. Congressmen are pressured and/or bribed by lobbyists and special interest groups.

Keep trying.

I can't really argue with you Matts, you think bestiality and prostitution are moral, obviously your twisted. What am I supposed to do? This is like arguing with the guy downtown who believes he gets daily messages from men on Mars.

You win, I was taught not to upset you people.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by OCA
I have a WIFE and 3 kids and use one nic, how much more normal would you like?

You on the other hand think homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality, need I say more?

I think homosexuals deserve equal rights to heterosexuals both as American citizens and human beings.

And more or less, they have them! So apparently the law and dare I say the majority are on my side.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
I have a WIFE and 3 kids and use one nic, how much more normal would you like?

You on the other hand think homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality, need I say more?

Not bad. I think that the average family consists of 2.5 kids so you have half of a kid too many.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by nycflasher
When you have no answer...insult the other guy.
Good job.

Nah NYC/Chippewa you just didn't like the look in the mirror is all. The truth is upsetting sometimes, isn't it?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Not bad. I think that the average family consists of 2.5 kids so you have half of a kid too many.

Ha-ha-ha. I almost said the same thing, but thought I'd discuss his outdated views instead.

Man, this thread got so off-topic it's hillarious.