Gay Marriage - Question.....

[Bonzi]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

As long as opponents to homosexuals do not bring up the Bible- I will not. I personally do not care what a persons religious beliefs are.

However, if someone uses the Bible as a rationalization here on the boards for why they believe homosexuals should be discriminated against- then I am fine with actually discussing what the Bible says.

Frankly- from the rhetoric of the Far Right Christians, an ignorant outsider would easily assume that homosexuality is one of the main themes of the Bible- and that Jesus's primary message was regarding homosexuality. Because that is what the Far Right Christians focus on.

But instead- the NT barely mentions homosexuality, and Jesus's own words are barely mentioned.

So to recap- I won't challenge your belief in what the Bible says if you don't cite the Bible as your reason to discriminate.

Homosexuality is discussed because it is the current hot topic.
If it were another issue (abortion) that was a current event hot topic, that would be brought forth.
I'll be happy to discuss any of the many sins mentioned in the Bible.
We all sin. It's not the sin as much as the Government making sins lawful, and, thus, having the 2 fold effect of (1) further advancing the trend toward a less moral society and (2) making something Christian's view as a sacred union between a man and a woman something entirely different.

Lastly, many Christian's believe that our Country was founded on Christian principles, and, that this is slipping away. Some people feel this is for the better, some not.

It's not (or should not be) about hatred, repression etc. Unfortunately, man will never manufacture a perfect society with perfect rules. God has, however, and, Christian's know that but - it won't come to be until after the End Times.

Since we all sin, why do you only propose gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because they sin? What about wealthy people? What about athiests? What about everyone since everyone sins. If you were consistent in your beliefs, you would be against anyone from getting married since everyone sins. But you're not. You're only against those who sin by having gay sex as being allowed to marry. You're a hypocrite who hides her bigotry behind the veil of faith.

The point isn't that people who sin should not get married.
The point is that marriage was designed by God to be between a man and a woman only.
Men can make up any rules they want here on Earth.
Christian's just want God's plan for our Country and our world because God is perfect.
I'm not sure what more to say about it!

 

[Bonzi]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

'

because part of the liberal gay agenda is the destruction of organized religion.

I don't think that. They just want to neuter organized religion.
They want organized religion to stay out of it and go in their corner and play by themselves, so to speak.

 

[g5000]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

Why is it important to you that homos not collect the exact same government cash and prizes you do for being married? What do government marriage benefits which rain down from Caesar have to do with religion or the Bible?

To a Christian, marriage is not a legal arrangement. It is a strictly defined bonding of a man and a woman - as created by God. To a Christian, God's plan is perfect, so to deviate from that plan in any arena (personal or societal) means only ultimate failure and destruction can result.

That being said, out of love, they want what is best for this Country and for others, and that is to be obedient to God -

I understand that issue with this for those that do no believe in God, but, I would think that an open minded rational person could also understand this as well.

Again, what does any of this have to do with government marriage benefits?

That is all that has changed! Gays may now receive government marriage benefits for being married.

So what in blazes does any of your nonsense have to do with government marriage benefits?

By the way, if you are all about being Bible-compliant, what about all those non-virgins and fornicators and adulterers getting married these days? Why aren't your panties in a twist over that?

Hmmmm...

What does God have to say about hypocrites?

 

[Redfish]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

'

because part of the liberal gay agenda is the destruction of organized religion.

I don't think that. They just want to neuter organized religion.
They want organized religion to stay out of it and go in their corner and play by themselves, so to speak.

Nope, they want to remove religion from society, their only god is the state. they are trying as we speak to remove the tax exemptions from churches. Liberals want a godless society where rules of right and wrong come from the rulers of the state, not from God.

 

[Faun]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

As long as opponents to homosexuals do not bring up the Bible- I will not. I personally do not care what a persons religious beliefs are.

However, if someone uses the Bible as a rationalization here on the boards for why they believe homosexuals should be discriminated against- then I am fine with actually discussing what the Bible says.

Frankly- from the rhetoric of the Far Right Christians, an ignorant outsider would easily assume that homosexuality is one of the main themes of the Bible- and that Jesus's primary message was regarding homosexuality. Because that is what the Far Right Christians focus on.

But instead- the NT barely mentions homosexuality, and Jesus's own words are barely mentioned.

So to recap- I won't challenge your belief in what the Bible says if you don't cite the Bible as your reason to discriminate.

Homosexuality is discussed because it is the current hot topic.
If it were another issue (abortion) that was a current event hot topic, that would be brought forth.
I'll be happy to discuss any of the many sins mentioned in the Bible.
We all sin. It's not the sin as much as the Government making sins lawful, and, thus, having the 2 fold effect of (1) further advancing the trend toward a less moral society and (2) making something Christian's view as a sacred union between a man and a woman something entirely different.

Lastly, many Christian's believe that our Country was founded on Christian principles, and, that this is slipping away. Some people feel this is for the better, some not.

It's not (or should not be) about hatred, repression etc. Unfortunately, man will never manufacture a perfect society with perfect rules. God has, however, and, Christian's know that but - it won't come to be until after the End Times.

Since we all sin, why do you only propose gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because they sin? What about wealthy people? What about athiests? What about everyone since everyone sins. If you were consistent in your beliefs, you would be against anyone from getting married since everyone sins. But you're not. You're only against those who sin by having gay sex as being allowed to marry. You're a hypocrite who hides her bigotry behind the veil of faith.

The point isn't that people who sin should not get married.
The point is that marriage was designed by God to be between a man and a woman only.
Men can make up any rules they want here on Earth.
Christian's just want God's plan for our Country and our world because God is perfect.
I'm not sure what more to say about it!

If people who sin should not get married, why are you singling out only those who sin by having gay sex? Why aren't you at least being consistent with your message and promoting that no one who sins, regardless of their sins, should be allowed to get married?

 

[Redfish]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

Why is it important to you that homos not collect the exact same government cash and prizes you do for being married? What do government marriage benefits which rain down from Caesar have to do with religion or the Bible?

To a Christian, marriage is not a legal arrangement. It is a strictly defined bonding of a man and a woman - as created by God. To a Christian, God's plan is perfect, so to deviate from that plan in any arena (personal or societal) means only ultimate failure and destruction can result.

That being said, out of love, they want what is best for this Country and for others, and that is to be obedient to God -

I understand that issue with this for those that do no believe in God, but, I would think that an open minded rational person could also understand this as well.

Again, what does any of this have to do with government marriage benefits?

Its all about the word "marriage". Gay civil unions would have given then all of the rights and benefits that man/woman married couples have, but that is not what this is about. Its about using the power of government to force societal acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

 

[Faun]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

'

because part of the liberal gay agenda is the destruction of organized religion.

I don't think that. They just want to neuter organized religion.
They want organized religion to stay out of it and go in their corner and play by themselves, so to speak.

And they would be right in this regard since religion does not dictate law in the U.S.

 

[Correll]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

Why is it important to you that homos not collect the exact same government cash and prizes you do for being married? What do government marriage benefits which rain down from Caesar have to do with religion or the Bible?

I think the issue is this. You are thinking of marriage in terms of the benefits derived from legal decree.
Christian's think of marriage in terms of a Godly vow / institution. It is impossible for a Christian to view a marriage vow as anything OTHER than that. AND, even in spite of that, with it becoming legal, it tears down the moral fabric of our Country, and, trend toward more and more acceptability of sinful behaviors and lifestyles.

You think Christian's hate gays and that they don't want them to be treated equally.
In reality, they hate sin and moral depravity and hate to see it being more and more acceptable to society.

Mmm, i did consider the legal paperwork to be of minor, if any importance, when i got married.

 

[Redfish]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

'

because part of the liberal gay agenda is the destruction of organized religion.

I don't think that. They just want to neuter organized religion.
They want organized religion to stay out of it and go in their corner and play by themselves, so to speak.

And they would be right in this regard since religion does not dictate law in the U.S.

No, it does not, but you are the same libs who are saying its OK for muslims to invoke sharia law in this country------------------so they won't be offended.

you are idiots, inconsistent, intolerant fools.

 

[Bonzi]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

Why is it important to you that homos not collect the exact same government cash and prizes you do for being married? What do government marriage benefits which rain down from Caesar have to do with religion or the Bible?

To a Christian, marriage is not a legal arrangement. It is a strictly defined bonding of a man and a woman - as created by God. To a Christian, God's plan is perfect, so to deviate from that plan in any arena (personal or societal) means only ultimate failure and destruction can result.

That being said, out of love, they want what is best for this Country and for others, and that is to be obedient to God -

I understand that issue with this for those that do no believe in God, but, I would think that an open minded rational person could also understand this as well.

Again, what does any of this have to do with government marriage benefits?

Christian's believe marriage is Holy. There is no "legal marriage" in their mind, and again, even if they do acknowledge the "legal marriage" I go again to the slipping away of morals in our society, as things become legal (abortion, gay marriage etc.) people start to look at them as "acceptable" - a Christian sees this as a trend to becoming more secular, and thus, losing the protection of God.

To a Christian, God's ways are HIGHER than societies. Although you view them separately (the Christian vow and the legal vow) a Christian does not.

 

[Correll]

OMG, totally.

We don't have the media/pop culture created echo chamber the left lives in where their preconceived notions are never challenged and instead are constantly pandered to.

Seems your lack of self awareness is just as obvious as what you project on the left. Case in point, the OP, who echoes the sentiment on gay marriage found rampant on the right, which is quite hypocritical indeed.

And why did you change the content of your earlier reply to me?

I have actually become quite introspective in my middle age, and indeed one of the reasons i frequent sites such as this is to use you libs as an acid test for my positions, though you are generally disappointing in that regard.

As to my editing, i realized that i might have misunderstood your post initially.

Perhaps some more introspection for you would be helpful then since anyone claiming their side (left or right) is less hypocritical than the other is lacking in self awareness.

it is only "lacking in self awareness" if it is easily demonstrated that both sides are equally hypocritical.

Can you support that?

Measuring hypocrisy between the two sides is not quantifiable, which is why your attempt to do so is lacking in self awareness and why your challenge to prove otherwise is an appeal to a strawman.

Measuring?

Well, I am not aware of any units of hypocrisy, though, if there were to one created i would suggest a Clinton as a name.

But be that as it may.

Comparisons are certainly possible.

Do you think that John McCain ran a racist campaign?

 

[g5000]

People get divorced for "irreconcilable differences". I don't see Bible thumpers trying to ban that.

Non-virgins get married every day. I don't see Bible thumpers trying to ban that.

Fornicators get married every day. I don't see Bible thumpers trying to ban that.

Divorcees remarry every day. I don't see Bible thumpers trying to ban that.

Nope. They just want to ban homos from getting married, and that is how we know this has NOTHING to do with religion.

They are hiding their hatefulness behind a Cross. That was despicable when the Klan did it, and it is despicable now.

 

[Faun]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

'

because part of the liberal gay agenda is the destruction of organized religion.

I don't think that. They just want to neuter organized religion.
They want organized religion to stay out of it and go in their corner and play by themselves, so to speak.

And they would be right in this regard since religion does not dictate law in the U.S.

No, its does not, but you are the same libs who are saying its OK for muslims to invoke sharia law in this country------------------so they won't be offended.

you are idiots, inconsistent, intolerant fools.

You have a link to Liberals saying it's OK for Muslims to invoke Sharia law here? And btw, I don't say it's ok, so you are wrong about that too.

 

[g5000]

The question in the OP has been answered. The topic starter just doesn't like the answer.

 

[Redfish]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

'

because part of the liberal gay agenda is the destruction of organized religion.

I don't think that. They just want to neuter organized religion.
They want organized religion to stay out of it and go in their corner and play by themselves, so to speak.

And they would be right in this regard since religion does not dictate law in the U.S.

No, its does not, but you are the same libs who are saying its OK for muslims to invoke sharia law in this country------------------so they won't be offended.

you are idiots, inconsistent, intolerant fools.

You have a link to Liberals saying it's OK for Muslims to invoke Sharia law here? And btw, I don't say it's ok, so you are wrong about that too.

I am glad you don't agree with it. But its already happening, do some research.

 

[Syriusly]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

Why is it important to you that homos not collect the exact same government cash and prizes you do for being married? What do government marriage benefits which rain down from Caesar have to do with religion or the Bible?

To a Christian, marriage is not a legal arrangement. It is a strictly defined bonding of a man and a woman - as created by God. To a Christian, God's plan is perfect, so to deviate from that plan in any arena (personal or societal) means only ultimate failure and destruction can result.

That being said, out of love, they want what is best for this Country and for others, and that is to be obedient to God -

I understand that issue with this for those that do no believe in God, but, I would think that an open minded rational person could also understand this as well.

Again, what does any of this have to do with government marriage benefits?

Its all about the word "marriage". Gay civil unions would have given then all of the rights and benefits that man/woman married couples have, but that is not what this is about. Its about using the power of government to force societal acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

Civil Unions never gave all of the same rights and benefits- never. And States made sure that if they banned gay marriage, they banned civil unions too- so this is just false.

Marriage is about marriage- now Americans have the legal right to marry regardless of the gender of their spouse- and the government is not forcing you to accept it- you don't have to get gay married or even attend any marriage.

 

[Faun]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

Why is it important to you that homos not collect the exact same government cash and prizes you do for being married? What do government marriage benefits which rain down from Caesar have to do with religion or the Bible?

To a Christian, marriage is not a legal arrangement. It is a strictly defined bonding of a man and a woman - as created by God. To a Christian, God's plan is perfect, so to deviate from that plan in any arena (personal or societal) means only ultimate failure and destruction can result.

That being said, out of love, they want what is best for this Country and for others, and that is to be obedient to God -

I understand that issue with this for those that do no believe in God, but, I would think that an open minded rational person could also understand this as well.

Again, what does any of this have to do with government marriage benefits?

Christian's believe marriage is Holy. There is no "legal marriage" in their mind, and again, even if they do acknowledge the "legal marriage" I go again to the slipping away of morals in our society, as things become legal (abortion, gay marriage etc.) people start to look at them as "acceptable" - a Christian sees this as a trend to becoming more secular, and thus, losing the protection of God.

To a Christian, God's ways are HIGHER than societies. Although you view them separately (the Christian vow and the legal vow) a Christian does not.

It matters not what goes on in the minds of Christians. Even if, in their minds, they only think of marriage as holy and not legal, they still have to go through the legal process in the U.S. of acquiring a marriage license from the state or else their "holy marriage" is not recognized in this country.

 

[g5000]

Its all about the word "marriage".

Bigots don't get to tell other people what their marriage is. Or do you think it should be okay that interracial marriages should be called "civil unions" to keep racists happy?

Same bullshit, different decade.

Gay civil unions would have given then all of the rights and benefits that man/woman married couples have, but that is not what this is about. Its about using the power of government to force societal acceptance of homosexuality as a normal human condition.

No one says homosexuality is normal. They are saying it isn't wrong. Big difference.

No one said interracial marriages were normal, either. They just said they aren't wrong.

Same bullshit, different decade.

And not one gay marriage in this country was equal to a heterosexual marriage until a few days ago. You are an idiot for thinking they were.

 

[Syriusly]

'

because part of the liberal gay agenda is the destruction of organized religion.

I don't think that. They just want to neuter organized religion.
They want organized religion to stay out of it and go in their corner and play by themselves, so to speak.

And they would be right in this regard since religion does not dictate law in the U.S.

No, its does not, but you are the same libs who are saying its OK for muslims to invoke sharia law in this country------------------so they won't be offended.

you are idiots, inconsistent, intolerant fools.

You have a link to Liberals saying it's OK for Muslims to invoke Sharia law here? And btw, I don't say it's ok, so you are wrong about that too.

I am glad you don't agree with it. But its already happening, do some research.

Just like there are Christians here who say it we should be killing Gay Americans.

Sure I can find a Christian calling for gays to be killed- and a Liberal who says Sharia law is okay in this country.

But those are the nutjobs- Liberals in general oppose all religious law being imposed- Christian or Muslim.

Luckily our Constitution prevents Sharia law from being imposed- just as it prevents Christian law or Jewish law.

 

[Faun]

Seems your lack of self awareness is just as obvious as what you project on the left. Case in point, the OP, who echoes the sentiment on gay marriage found rampant on the right, which is quite hypocritical indeed.

And why did you change the content of your earlier reply to me?

I have actually become quite introspective in my middle age, and indeed one of the reasons i frequent sites such as this is to use you libs as an acid test for my positions, though you are generally disappointing in that regard.

As to my editing, i realized that i might have misunderstood your post initially.

Perhaps some more introspection for you would be helpful then since anyone claiming their side (left or right) is less hypocritical than the other is lacking in self awareness.

it is only "lacking in self awareness" if it is easily demonstrated that both sides are equally hypocritical.

Can you support that?

Measuring hypocrisy between the two sides is not quantifiable, which is why your attempt to do so is lacking in self awareness and why your challenge to prove otherwise is an appeal to a strawman.

Measuring?

Well, I am not aware of any units of hypocrisy, though, if there were to one created i would suggest a Clinton as a name.

But be that as it may.

Comparisons are certainly possible.

Do you think that John McCain ran a racist campaign?

Comparisons don't reveal which side is more hypocritical. Both sides can easily demonstrate hypocrisy in the other. It's not possible to determine either side has the high ground in that regard. Thinking you do only serves to reveal your own lack of self awareness.