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General Giap, Vietnam's master guerilla, dies aged 102
- Thread starter eagle7_31
- Start date
mamooth
Diamond Member
If you think that maybe half a doz. unarmed MP's can beat the crap out of a mob of several thousand rioters after having sulfuric acid throw in some of their faces you are a very special kind of stupid.
You want documentation? You might start with the well documented accounts of the Kent State riots.
Kent State riots? There's no mention anywhere of acid throwing, or of any assaults aside from throwing rocks and beer bottles.
Of course I accuse a lot of vets of making crap up. Because they make crap up. Like you just made up an insane story about of thousands of acid-throwing hippies physically wrestling the National Guard at Kent State.
It's not always deliberate, of course. Memories are flexible things. If you tell yourself the same story over and over, you can actually start to believe it, especially if your "tribe" gives you brownie points for telling such stories. It's like the girls in a freshmen womyn's studies class at Antioch University suddenly "remembering" being raped by every man they ever met in their life.
Another clue, the same cliches. Being called "baby killer" -- every single account mentions that. San Francisco airport, even though returning overseas military flights went to military airbases. And usually women doing the spitting. Yet not a single picture, despite half the vets carrying cameras home. Not a single newspaper story, not a single arrest record, nothing.
Nobody is saying no vet was ever spit on anywhere. We are saying that the stories of legions of hippies waiting to spit on vets are a smelly crock of shit. Again, common sense. A hippie dude spitting on a soldier in any airport would have had his hippie teeth knocked in, as the police and bystanders cheered.
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
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If you think that maybe half a doz. unarmed MP's can beat the crap out of a mob of several thousand rioters after having sulfuric acid throw in some of their faces you are a very special kind of stupid.
You want documentation? You might start with the well documented accounts of the Kent State riots.
Kent State riots? There's no mention anywhere of acid throwing, or of any assaults aside from throwing rocks and beer bottles.
Of course I accuse a lot of vets of making crap up. Because they make crap up. Like you just made up an insane story about of thousands of acid-throwing hippies physically wrestling the National Guard at Kent State.
It's not always deliberate, of course. Memories are flexible things. If you tell yourself the same story over and over, you can actually start to believe it, especially if your "tribe" gives you brownie points for telling such stories. It's like the girls in a freshmen womyn's studies class at Antioch University suddenly "remembering" being raped by every man they ever met in their life.
Another clue, the same cliches. Being called "baby killer" -- every single account mentions that. San Francisco airport, even though returning overseas military flights went to military airbases. And usually women doing the spitting. Yet not a single picture, despite half the vets carrying cameras home. Not a single newspaper story, not a single arrest record, nothing.
Nobody is saying no vet was ever spit on anywhere. We are saying that the stories of legions of hippies waiting to spit on vets are a smelly crock of shit. Again, common sense. A hippie dude spitting on a soldier in any airport would have had his hippie teeth knocked in, as the police and bystanders cheered.
You also never get a firsthand account. Always ...my buddies, I heard or at best They spit at me but no details
I remember a lot of stories from back then. The press played up both sides. They would have been all over massive spitting on our veterans. But no stories, no fights, no arrests....just combat vets meekly submitting to being spat upon
9thIDdoc
Gold Member
- Aug 8, 2011
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"Kent State riots? There's no mention anywhere of acid throwing, or of any assaults aside from throwing rocks and beer bottles."
Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Friday, May 1
Trouble exploded in town around midnight when people left a bar and began throwing beer bottles at police cars and breaking downtown store fronts. In the process they broke a bank window, setting off an alarm. The news spread quickly and it resulted in several bars closing early to avoid trouble. Before long, more people had joined the vandalism.
By the time police arrived, a crowd of 120 had already gathered. Some people from the crowd had already lit a small bonfire in the street. The crowd appeared to be a mix of bikers, students, and transient people. A few members of the crowd began to throw beer bottles at the police, and then started yelling obscenities at them. The entire Kent police force was called to duty as well as officers from the county and surrounding communities. Kent Mayor LeRoy Satrom declared a state of emergency, called Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes' office to seek assistance, and ordered all of the bars closed. The decision to close the bars early increased the size of the angry crowd. Police eventually succeeded in using tear gas to disperse the crowd from downtown, forcing them to move several blocks back to the campus.[7]
Saturday, May 2
City officials and downtown businesses received threats while rumors proliferated that radical revolutionaries were in Kent to destroy the city and university. Mayor Satrom met with Kent city officials and a representative of the Ohio Army National Guard. Following the meeting Satrom made the decision to call Governor Rhodes and request that the National Guard be sent to Kent, a request that was granted. Because of the rumors and threats, Satrom believed that local officials would not be able to handle future disturbances.[7] The decision to call in the National Guard was made at 5:00 pm, but the guard did not arrive into town that evening until around 10 pm. A large demonstration was already under way on the campus, and the campus Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) building[11] was burning. The arsonists were never apprehended and no one was injured in the fire.[12] More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered its burning. Several Kent firemen and police officers were struck by rocks and other objects while attempting to extinguish the blaze. Several fire engine companies had to be called in because protesters carried the fire hose into the Commons and slashed it.[13][14][15] The National Guard made numerous arrests and used tear gas; at least one student was slightly wounded with a bayonet.
Sunday, May 3
Around 8:00 pm, another rally was held on the campus Commons. By 8:45 pm the Guardsmen used tear gas to disperse the crowd, and the students reassembled at the intersection of Lincoln and Main Streets, holding a sit-in with the hopes of gaining a meeting with Mayor Satrom and President White. At 11:00 p.m., the Guard announced that a curfew had gone into effect and began forcing the students back to their dorms. A few students were bayoneted by Guardsmen.[21]
Monday, May 4
Companies A and C, 1/145th Infantry and Troop G of the 2/107th Armored Cavalry, Ohio National Guard (ARNG), the units on the campus grounds, attempted to disperse the students. The legality of the dispersal was later debated at a subsequent wrongful death and injury trial. On appeal, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled that authorities did indeed have the right to disperse the crowd.[23]
The dispersal process began late in the morning with campus patrolman Harold Rice,[24] riding in a National Guard Jeep, approaching the students to read them an order to disperse or face arrest. The protesters responded by throwing rocks, striking one campus Patrolman and forcing the Jeep to retreat.
Just before noon, the Guard returned and again ordered the crowd to disperse. When most of the crowd refused, the Guard used tear gas. Because of wind, the tear gas had little effect in dispersing the crowd, and some launched a second volley of rocks toward the Guard's line, to chants of "Pigs off campus!" The students lobbed the tear gas canisters back at the National Guardsmen, who wore gas masks.
The National Guardsmen have always claimed they were fired on first and that has never been proven one way or the other.
I didn't claim to have been at Kent State. I was there and saw the incident involving the acid and MP's who were active duty Army at entrance to the Presidio in San Francisco on '69.
Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Friday, May 1
Trouble exploded in town around midnight when people left a bar and began throwing beer bottles at police cars and breaking downtown store fronts. In the process they broke a bank window, setting off an alarm. The news spread quickly and it resulted in several bars closing early to avoid trouble. Before long, more people had joined the vandalism.
By the time police arrived, a crowd of 120 had already gathered. Some people from the crowd had already lit a small bonfire in the street. The crowd appeared to be a mix of bikers, students, and transient people. A few members of the crowd began to throw beer bottles at the police, and then started yelling obscenities at them. The entire Kent police force was called to duty as well as officers from the county and surrounding communities. Kent Mayor LeRoy Satrom declared a state of emergency, called Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes' office to seek assistance, and ordered all of the bars closed. The decision to close the bars early increased the size of the angry crowd. Police eventually succeeded in using tear gas to disperse the crowd from downtown, forcing them to move several blocks back to the campus.[7]
Saturday, May 2
City officials and downtown businesses received threats while rumors proliferated that radical revolutionaries were in Kent to destroy the city and university. Mayor Satrom met with Kent city officials and a representative of the Ohio Army National Guard. Following the meeting Satrom made the decision to call Governor Rhodes and request that the National Guard be sent to Kent, a request that was granted. Because of the rumors and threats, Satrom believed that local officials would not be able to handle future disturbances.[7] The decision to call in the National Guard was made at 5:00 pm, but the guard did not arrive into town that evening until around 10 pm. A large demonstration was already under way on the campus, and the campus Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) building[11] was burning. The arsonists were never apprehended and no one was injured in the fire.[12] More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered its burning. Several Kent firemen and police officers were struck by rocks and other objects while attempting to extinguish the blaze. Several fire engine companies had to be called in because protesters carried the fire hose into the Commons and slashed it.[13][14][15] The National Guard made numerous arrests and used tear gas; at least one student was slightly wounded with a bayonet.
Sunday, May 3
Around 8:00 pm, another rally was held on the campus Commons. By 8:45 pm the Guardsmen used tear gas to disperse the crowd, and the students reassembled at the intersection of Lincoln and Main Streets, holding a sit-in with the hopes of gaining a meeting with Mayor Satrom and President White. At 11:00 p.m., the Guard announced that a curfew had gone into effect and began forcing the students back to their dorms. A few students were bayoneted by Guardsmen.[21]
Monday, May 4
Companies A and C, 1/145th Infantry and Troop G of the 2/107th Armored Cavalry, Ohio National Guard (ARNG), the units on the campus grounds, attempted to disperse the students. The legality of the dispersal was later debated at a subsequent wrongful death and injury trial. On appeal, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled that authorities did indeed have the right to disperse the crowd.[23]
The dispersal process began late in the morning with campus patrolman Harold Rice,[24] riding in a National Guard Jeep, approaching the students to read them an order to disperse or face arrest. The protesters responded by throwing rocks, striking one campus Patrolman and forcing the Jeep to retreat.
Just before noon, the Guard returned and again ordered the crowd to disperse. When most of the crowd refused, the Guard used tear gas. Because of wind, the tear gas had little effect in dispersing the crowd, and some launched a second volley of rocks toward the Guard's line, to chants of "Pigs off campus!" The students lobbed the tear gas canisters back at the National Guardsmen, who wore gas masks.
The National Guardsmen have always claimed they were fired on first and that has never been proven one way or the other.
I didn't claim to have been at Kent State. I was there and saw the incident involving the acid and MP's who were active duty Army at entrance to the Presidio in San Francisco on '69.
9thIDdoc
Gold Member
- Aug 8, 2011
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Of course I accuse a lot of vets of making crap up. Because they make crap up. Like you just made up an insane story about of thousands of acid-throwing hippies physically wrestling the National Guard at Kent State.
I made up nothing and I suspect that when it comes to actual history you would love to replace fact with lies as long as they make those who have your sympathies look more like heroes and a little less like thugs and assholes.
I made up nothing and I suspect that when it comes to actual history you would love to replace fact with lies as long as they make those who have your sympathies look more like heroes and a little less like thugs and assholes.
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
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Of course I accuse a lot of vets of making crap up. Because they make crap up. Like you just made up an insane story about of thousands of acid-throwing hippies physically wrestling the National Guard at Kent State.
I made up nothing and I suspect that when it comes to actual history you would love to replace fact with lies as long as they make those who have your sympathies look more like heroes and a little less like thugs and assholes.
Tell us the story of how you were spit on and how you responded. It should be interesting
9thIDdoc
Gold Member
- Aug 8, 2011
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If you think that maybe half a doz. unarmed MP's can beat the crap out of a mob of several thousand rioters after having sulfuric acid throw in some of their faces you are a very special kind of stupid.
You want documentation? You might start with the well documented accounts of the Kent State riots.
Kent State riots? There's no mention anywhere of acid throwing, or of any assaults aside from throwing rocks and beer bottles.
Of course I accuse a lot of vets of making crap up. Because they make crap up. Like you just made up an insane story about of thousands of acid-throwing hippies physically wrestling the National Guard at Kent State.
It's not always deliberate, of course. Memories are flexible things. If you tell yourself the same story over and over, you can actually start to believe it, especially if your "tribe" gives you brownie points for telling such stories. It's like the girls in a freshmen womyn's studies class at Antioch University suddenly "remembering" being raped by every man they ever met in their life.
Another clue, the same cliches. Being called "baby killer" -- every single account mentions that. San Francisco airport, even though returning overseas military flights went to military airbases. And usually women doing the spitting. Yet not a single picture, despite half the vets carrying cameras home. Not a single newspaper story, not a single arrest record, nothing.
Nobody is saying no vet was ever spit on anywhere. We are saying that the stories of legions of hippies waiting to spit on vets are a smelly crock of shit. Again, common sense. A hippie dude spitting on a soldier in any airport would have had his hippie teeth knocked in, as the police and bystanders cheered.
You also never get a firsthand account. Always ...my buddies, I heard or at best They spit at me but no details
I remember a lot of stories from back then. The press played up both sides. They would have been all over massive spitting on our veterans. But no stories, no fights, no arrests....just combat vets meekly submitting to being spat upon
What part of:
"Bullshit. You have mine and more on the video."
Are you having trouble understanding? Do you know anyone who can read English?
9thIDdoc
Gold Member
- Aug 8, 2011
- 7,956
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Another clue, the same cliches. Being called "baby killer" -- every single account mentions that. San Francisco airport, even though returning overseas military flights went to military airbases. And usually women doing the spitting. Yet not a single picture, despite half the vets carrying cameras home. Not a single newspaper story, not a single arrest record, nothing.
I suppose you are unaware of Travis AFB which I think is actually in Oakland which is often thought of as being in SF. I flew to-and returned from-Vietnam via Travis. On return I was given leave and it was necessary to use a civilian flight to get home. If I wanted to fly "military standby" I was required to be in uniform which exposed me to any protestors who might have been at the airport. I went through at 2 or 3AM and there weren't any. Had there been any it would have been idiotic to think I would have done anything to risk going to the brig instead of finally going home.
It was very common to be called baby killer by the hippies. What's so hard to understand about that?
I suppose you are unaware of Travis AFB which I think is actually in Oakland which is often thought of as being in SF. I flew to-and returned from-Vietnam via Travis. On return I was given leave and it was necessary to use a civilian flight to get home. If I wanted to fly "military standby" I was required to be in uniform which exposed me to any protestors who might have been at the airport. I went through at 2 or 3AM and there weren't any. Had there been any it would have been idiotic to think I would have done anything to risk going to the brig instead of finally going home.
It was very common to be called baby killer by the hippies. What's so hard to understand about that?
bravoactual
bravoactual
Gosh.
Where did all the commie sympathizers go? Probably gone to the funeral I guess.
Oh you mean like the shrub and dead-dick(less) who borrowed billions of dollars from the People's Republic of (Communist) China in order to finance the Nationals Debt?
the shrub was, is and always will be a deserter.
dick(less) was, is and always will be a draft dodger.
blastoff
Undocumented Reg. User
R.I.P.
To Walter Cronkite's hero...
To Walter Cronkite's hero...
R.I.P.
To Walter Cronkite's hero...
Walter had the misfortune of seeing a deuce and a half full to the top with GI's stacked like cord wood. It fucked up his head and he never got over it. It gave him PTSD.
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
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Walter saved more US lives than those chanting........Just give me another 100,000 soldiers and I can win this thing in 6 months
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
How many times did the British win in Ireland?
usmcstinger
Gold Member
- Dec 31, 2011
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Giap was the greatest guerilla leader of the 20th century, and he defeated the French and the USA.
Eagle is in mourning.
Read: Following Ho Chi Minh; Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel by Bui Tin.
This book tells the truth about the Transformation of North Vietnam to Communism including the mass executions and the consequences of General Giap's failure to win the TET Offensive.
If you not read the Book, you can not debate the issue. Don't bother responding until you do.
Last edited:
Sunni Man
Diamond Member
General Giap in the long run did win the Tet offensive. ...Giap was the greatest guerilla leader of the 20th century, and he defeated the French and the USA.
Eagle is in mourning.
Read: Following Ho Chi Minh; Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel by Bui Tin.
This book tells the truth about the Transformation of North Vietnam to Communism including the mass executions and the consequences of General Giap's failure to win the TET Offensive.
If you not read the Book, you can not debate the issue. Don't bother responding until you do.
bravoactual
bravoactual
Giap was the greatest guerilla leader of the 20th century, and he defeated the French and the USA.
Eagle is in mourning.
Read: Following Ho Chi Minh; Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel by Bui Tin.
This book tells the truth about the Transformation of North Vietnam to Communism including the mass executions and the consequences of General Giap's failure to win the TET Offensive.
If you not read the Book, you can not debate the issue. Don't bother responding until you do.
You have a problem with being to look at the man. Giap had no prior military training, and went to defeat the French and the Americans. Giap made life hell for the Japanese.
Giap was just as much a Patriot to his country (Viet Nam) as any American who fought in WWII or in Viet Nam.
The "American War" as it is called in Viet Nam was a continuation of the "French War".
You also choose to ignore the fact that Ho and Giap were Communists by convience. The U.S. refused to suppport Ho after WWII (Ho was an operative for the O.S.S. by the way).
The War in Viet Nam was a war of Unifaction. If Ho could unified Viet Nam with U.S. assistance he would have. The U.S. refused to assistance.
You need to past the end of you nose and appreciate the fact that as a General, Giap did the near impossible. It is a shame you cannot do that.
- Thread starter
- #160
Giap was the greatest guerilla leader of the 20th century, and he defeated the French and the USA.
Eagle is in mourning.
Read: Following Ho Chi Minh; Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel by Bui Tin.
This book tells the truth about the Transformation of North Vietnam to Communism including the mass executions and the consequences of General Giap's failure to win the TET Offensive.
If you not read the Book, you can not debate the issue. Don't bother responding until you do.
You have a problem with being to look at the man. Giap had no prior military training, and went to defeat the French and the Americans. Giap made life hell for the Japanese.
Giap was just as much a Patriot to his country (Viet Nam) as any American who fought in WWII or in Viet Nam.
The "American War" as it is called in Viet Nam was a continuation of the "French War".
You also choose to ignore the fact that Ho and Giap were Communists by convience. The U.S. refused to suppport Ho after WWII (Ho was an operative for the O.S.S. by the way).
The War in Viet Nam was a war of Unifaction. If Ho could unified Viet Nam with U.S. assistance he would have. The U.S. refused to assistance.
You need to past the end of you nose and appreciate the fact that as a General, Giap did the near impossible. It is a shame you cannot do that.
Oh please. Ho, Giap and that whole crowd were nothing more than mass murdering communists, just like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Mugabe.
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