Geoffrey Fieger is Going After Oxford School District

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I post a lot of typing errors also

My solution to school shootings is limited entry to the school with metal detectors and armed security guards

Many people reject that idea but its the same method used to secure other public places

I think the reason people react this way is because they don't want to be reminded or visual evidence that the world we life in is not safe. I hear people say all of the time on the news "We know these things happen but they happen to other people, not us".

It's not just schools either, some of the synagogues and temples where we have provided protection have congregants that don't like seeing armed personnel in front of their houses of worship although they are generally in the minority, but they have let their feeling be known about it. They don't want their children seeing it.

 

[beagle9]

Easy, allow teachers and staff to carry concealed.

Yes, that would help.... Might not stop the gun battle that would ensue at any given point immediately, but it could limit the number of deaths "hopefully", just encase an event takes place.

Wow, the teacher character make up might also need to change, because I can't see some teacher's being the type that would be packing a weapon, and then having the student's aware of that, otherwise for the much needed psychological intimidation purposes in order to be pro-active/preventive if an before an event takes place. Otherwise the student's would need to fear a teacher in order not to see the situation as a challenge if realize the teacher is packing heat.

Concealed, otherwise not knowing the teacher is packing heat would be ok, but the situation would call for total compliance from all teacher's in order to stop an active shooter wherever he might raise his sick mentally disturbed head. Not sure what the poll would read on the idea, otherwise if taken within the school to see what teacher's would be willing to help.

 

[SweetSue92]

When the danger is as clear as this case was, they should have called the cops, and got the kid into a mental institution ASAP. When the kid is searching for ammo, and writes down "make the voices stop", that is a pretty clear and present danger.

Don't you think?

Yes, if it's clear the counselors saw this and knew all this information. It was a different teacher that saw him searching ammo. Did the counselors know of this? Did you know Crumbley altered the picture before he got to the counselor's office and claimed he was into designing video games?

 

[SweetSue92]

Hindsight has 20-20 vision.

We don't recognize this anymore and have no grace for anyone. We have recriminations, lawsuits, and judgment. That's it.

I have no tolerance for people who *knowingly* abuse children within the school system. It is wretched, they should not be defended and they should get out yesterday. I hope I have been consistent about that.

But that is not the case here. The school personnel did not have nearly the facts most people seem to think they had.

 

[SweetSue92]

You seem to be trying to dismiss the problem, and ANY solutions, by going for the ridiculous.

If ALL the student know about a problem, maybe school officials shouldn't bury their heads up their asses and actually do something

Someone in this thread just said that seems like a good idea--to monitor every social media post of every teenager in every school. Just as I knew someone would.

Once you go down this rabbit hole of "keeping us safe" there is no end to it. Has Covid taught us nothing?

 

[SweetSue92]

Worst idea ever is for the government to try to fix public education. Now surely that’s not what you’re suggesting Mac7? Any time the government attempts to “fix” an institution, what is their “smart”solution? To add more red tape to delay all actions, even small ones that need final governmental approval, and to increase its tentacled grip to instruct all to be the same, all outcomes needing to be reduced so individualism is silenced once and for all. Just say no people to government expansionism! All layers of government are inept vehicles of political control. No thanks!

I even gave Mac-7 clear examples of this from my own state and yet they keep on. I guess Conservatives really do love them some Big State Solutions, as long as the Big State is "security and safety".

I'm leaning more libertarian every day.

 

[SweetSue92]

You know, I hesitated to use that FBI source Death Angel for that exact reason. What I did consider valuable from their school shooter interpretation is how to assess risk. Seems pretty cut and dry on paper, but much harder to know you are 100% right even with an assessment. That risk assessment,btw, would’ve taken about 30 minutes, maybe longer depending on format.

I hope everyone who loves to blame the schools and love Security State is happy; we are already seeing the ramifications on the ground. Yes, already in my school, a young boy who turned a common object into a "gun" is in trouble now. I live in Michigan. It's a huge hunting state. We see this over and over and over.

But because of panting hyperbole from the public about THE SCHOOLS DIDN'T FOLLOW THROUGH, I now have to make reports on things like "Johnny made a finger gun" or "Johnny said he was going to 'kill' his friend at soccer during recess." (Kill meaning beat him good)

Happy everyone? This took about a week, by the way.

Again: the same crowd bitching about Crumbley on this thread will be bitching about Johnny being suspended for a finger gun. Always.

 

[SweetSue92]

Easy, allow teachers and staff to carry concealed.

You might have a few point people who could do this. Anyone? Probably not a great idea for many reasons.

 

[SweetSue92]

I post a lot of typing errors also

My solution to school shootings is limited entry to the school with metal detectors and armed security guards

Many people reject that idea but its the same method used to secure other public places

Schools have many, many, many doors to be up to fire code. You would have to have metal detectors at every door, which is inordinately expensive. Schools wouldn't do it--they can't--which makes "beating the metal detector" as easy as slipping in a side door by having it propped open, or a student hold it open for you. This would show up on a security camera later, but it's not like your identity would be a secret after you open fire.

You're not going to like this answer, and I don't care. Some security is good for preventing school shootings, such as the ones we enacted after Sandy Hook. We can at least make sure we know which non-students are coming in the front doors. However, when the potential shooters are your students, you have to work WITH your students, get to know them, teach other students the signs and etc.

We have over emphasized "bullying" by the way, and it relates to what beagle has been saying. We now extend "bullying" to mean isolating students who other students intrinsically understand as dangerous. That's not "bullying". That's human instinct. Think about your 14 yo daughter seeing Ethan Crumbley sitting by himself in the cafeteria. In the past it would be acceptable for her to simply leave him be. Now, we press her to override instincts that say "nope, hard pass" and approach him, maybe befriend him, because he is a loner.

We need to STOP telling children they must include loners and instead, as adults, follow through with loners persistently. WHY are they loners. Etc.

We need to restructure schools so that we get to know students better. The secondary schools in my district took a big step toward this in the last couple of years. So that kids like EC don't just wander from class to class unknown, but have at least one teacher who knows him consistently day to day, maybe year to year even.

These are just a couple of ideas, but ones that would work even in bigger high schools. Would they 100% prevent school shootings? Probably not. But they would help.

 

[justinacolmena]

Every child in that school will be having nightmares for the rest of their lives not to mention trust issues out the wazoo.

That's too bad. Their trust issues will be diagnosed as chronic paranoid schizophrenia and they will be served with a civil commitment and drugged into a stupor if they aren't already zoning out on a hazd of marijuana smoke.

But you say "wazoo" or "wazzu" and that's Washington State University — they opened a campus in my hometown — and the cops opened fire on us the people.

 

[beagle9]

We don't recognize this anymore and have no grace for anyone. We have recriminations, lawsuits, and judgment. That's it.

I have no tolerance for people who *knowingly* abuse children within the school system. It is wretched, they should not be defended and they should get out yesterday. I hope I have been consistent about that.

But that is not the case here. The school personnel did not have nearly the facts most people seem to think they had.

How did this go from the parent's to the school staff or system being at fault ???

Thought everyone has agreed that the parent's need to be charged also if were found to be highly negligent ?

 

[beagle9]

I hope everyone who loves to blame the schools and love Security State is happy; we are already seeing the ramifications on the ground. Yes, already in my school, a young boy who turned a common object into a "gun" is in trouble now. I live in Michigan. It's a huge hunting state. We see this over and over and over.

But because of panting hyperbole from the public about THE SCHOOLS DIDN'T FOLLOW THROUGH, I now have to make reports on things like "Johnny made a finger gun" or "Johnny said he was going to 'kill' his friend at soccer during recess." (Kill meaning beat him good)

Happy everyone? This took about a week, by the way.

Again: the same crowd bitching about Crumbley on this thread will be bitching about Johnny being suspended for a finger gun. Always.

These hideous things cause all sorts of fall out until the parent's and the student's learn the rules of the game quickly. Maybe the parent's will become more proactive at checking little Johnny's back pack before he gets in the car or gets on the bus to go to school now.

The main thing is that the new hyper sensitivity rules are conveyed quickly in so that the parent's and the student's get on board with the new rules quickly also.

Nothing needs to go lacking, and the teacher's need to protect their students by informing them quickly about what is to be expected of them going forward.

Example - We got a new safety person at our company, and he was sneaking around trying to introduce himself upon someone breaking the new safety protocols he was putting in place, otherwise that no one new about until they we're in violation. Well he quickly found out that he wasn't dealing with a bunch of kids. He found out that it was better to put out a warning about the new rule, and then make sure that everyone knew it before jumping down somebody's throat for something they didn't know about.

 

[SweetSue92]

How did this go from the parent's to the school staff or system being at fault ???

Thought everyone has agreed that the parent's need to be charged also if were found to be highly negligent ?

It's the topic of the thread title and in the OP

 

[beagle9]

It's the topic of the thread title and in the OP

Had to scroll up and again re-familiar myself... LOL.

 

[ClaireH]

Government owns public education

If not government then who?

I think private education

Give parents the right to remove their children from bad public schools along with the education dollars allocated to that student

The bottom line for that is that public education will reform itself or disappear

Another poster stated it well regarding the continued (thankfully) existence of the separation of federal versus state and local governments/powers. A vocal and proactive community can eventually oust corruptive school administrators. School boards and teachers aren’t always on the same side of things. When it’s to the point of us versus them a community can vote them out, particularly when classrooms take the blunt of the outfall.

A few years back in my state, we had a dictatorial type of state superintendent. She was worse than not having anyone “in charge” imo. Her primary goal was for teachers throughout the state to “teach to the test” to improve state testing scores and place everything else on the back burner. Principals in general were against it but followed the plan for a few years. Many teachers quit due to this required format, while many others went to task. Going to task meant using class time to review previous state test questions, in math and English, in hopes the students would score higher to achieve a better school ranking. IOW- a complete waste of time for most students.

The good news is that communities at large: parents, teachers, and many administrators finally got her out. It wasn’t easy as she had bureaucrats’ strongly backing her teach to the test goal. The communities finally got her out, but it took effort. BTW- there are many school administrators/teachers who continue to teach to the test in many states, unfortunately for the students.

I’m with you 100% that public schools need to step it up regardless of their bureaucratic overlords. Members of a community cannot blame these corrupt overlords for our own inaction to oust them from their positions.

 

[ClaireH]

Someone in this thread just said that seems like a good idea--to monitor every social media post of every teenager in every school. Just as I knew someone would.

Once you go down this rabbit hole of "keeping us safe" there is no end to it. Has Covid taught us nothing?

That would be an impossibility, and I rarely say that. Considering the numbers of students per classroom, the number of various social media outlets to monitor with hourly or by the minute updates…. Magic eight ball says very doubtful.

School hours on school grounds- that includes the time the school officially allows kids on campus until all students have left school grounds. This includes the parking lots, bus rides, after school sports, and anything affiliated with a school vehicle or under school supervision (an away track meet).

 

[ClaireH]

The mom sent Ethan a text saying he has to learn not to get caught when he got in trouble for searching for ammo on his phone while in class. He apparently took her at her word dance he claimed the disturbing photos were for a video game he was designing and that he was.planning on pursing a career in designing video games

I believe what you’re referencing was following the first meeting, is that correct? After Ethan was caught by the first teacher searching for ammo they called the parents in for a first meeting? The next parent/counselor meeting was on Tuesday following a different teacher seeing his bullet/blood drawing and cryptic written words, the day of the shooting. Had it just stopped with hid search for ammo I can understand the position of the parents not connecting the dots. The second event…. I don’t understand why that didn’t set off red flashing lights all over the place since they knew they had just bought him a gun. That’s what makes this event so horrendous is that it could’ve and should’ve been prevented. That’s the reason why the public is at odds about this as well.

 

[Leo123]

When you send your kid to school, the school is a ward of your child while the child is in attendance. In fact, in some States if your kid misses school, you will be held liable. Therefore the school has, IMO, a duty to protect the children it mandates be with them. IMO, the school shoulders all the liability for tragic incidents like this.

 

[ClaireH]

I hope everyone who loves to blame the schools and love Security State is happy; we are already seeing the ramifications on the ground. Yes, already in my school, a young boy who turned a common object into a "gun" is in trouble now. I live in Michigan. It's a huge hunting state. We see this over and over and over.

But because of panting hyperbole from the public about THE SCHOOLS DIDN'T FOLLOW THROUGH, I now have to make reports on things like "Johnny made a finger gun" or "Johnny said he was going to 'kill' his friend at soccer during recess." (Kill meaning beat him good)

Happy everyone? This took about a week, by the way.

Again: the same crowd bitching about Crumbley on this thread will be bitching about Johnny being suspended for a finger gun. Always.

We humans are good at going overboard when we try to correct something or to prevent something from repeating. As you’ve implied, going overboard rarely leads to a good outcome and can often make conditions more unstable. Anytime there is overly restrictive leadership, many kids will act out including kids who normally do not do so. Kids want fair treatment just like adults. With this serious school shooting issue, however, we cannot take anything said lightly, and that’s the quandary.

What I do support is immediate consequences for all students who make jokes about bringing a gun in to kill so and so, or even pretending that they’re going to be a copycat etc. The one time we (anyone, including fellow students) don’t take it seriously, could be the one time it actually happens.

 

[Leo123]

We humans are good at going overboard when we try to correct something or to prevent something from repeating. As you’ve implied, going overboard rarely leads to a good outcome and can often make conditions more unstable. Anytime there is overly restrictive leadership, many kids will act out including kids who normally do not do so. Kids want fair treatment just like adults. With this serious school shooting issue, however, we cannot take anything said lightly, and that’s the quandary.

What I do support is immediate consequences for all students who make jokes about bringing a gun in to kill so and so, or even pretending that they’re going to be a copycat etc. The one time we (anyone, including fellow students) don’t take it seriously, could be the one time it actually happens.

Maybe it's time to lock down schools and have one entrance and exit with metal detectors. Apparently our society is not capable anymore of teaching our children morals and values. Very sad.