"God" is a tyrant.

[Czernobog]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

Otherwise, why fill the Bible with references of the eternal torture, and suffering that would befall non-believers after judgement, when one dies. Now, the first question that is going to be asked is going to be an attempt at a distraction: "Why should I care what the Bible says, since I'm an Atheist?" However, it doesn't matter what my theological position is, does it? "The truth is the truth," right? So, if the Bible is the Truth, then the things that are in the Bible are "the Truth" whether I believe them, or not. Which, brings us right back around to my question. If God is not a tyrant, and does not demand worship from everyone, then why threaten anyone who does not believe? If God does not care one way, or the other, if someone chooses to believe, or not, why bother with all of the threats?

Dear Czernobog
Try substituting NATURE or LIFE for "God."
is NATURE a tyrant for its preexistent laws and ways of how the world works?
Is LIFE a tyrant for how we are born, go through stages of growth learning and development, before we die?

now, isn't our relationship with NATURE or LIFE
up to us to decide if we are going to work with it or try to fight against it.

isn't part of the learning curve making peace and learning to work with
laws of the universe, nature and life. And isn't that up to human conscience to deal with?

Except the Bible doesn't talk about living this life in harmony with God. It, repeatedly, talks about the eternal gnashing of teeth, torture, suffering, and damnation, after death that comes to those who do not join in the cult of Jesus worshipers.

You want to make it sound as if Christianity is no different than Zen Buddhism, except we both know that's not true.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Dear Czernobog
1. my understanding of hell and burning in the lake of fire is more like a purging or purgatory process to purify. If you've ever been through a bout of anger, where it burned you up, and all the impure thoughts came out in the open and even out of your mouth, that's the process I'm talking about.
If you look up the stages of Grief and Recovery, "ANGER" is one of the natural phases that humans go through if we are going to get to a better place. The point and purpose is NOT to stay stuck in Anger, nor in hell either. Only the good is eternal, while the evil is "burned away."

Where anger becomes a danger to ourselves, is when we hold on to ILL WILL or UNFORGIVENESS and WON'T LET IT GO.

This is like holding on to a burning ember or hot potato. To grab onto the very thing that will burn us. So of course we are going to get burned, and howl in pain and suffering! They say that unforgiveness is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die -- we only harm ourselves by holding on to toxic negative energy thoughts and fears.

The point of "Christ Jesus" is to understand Justice with Mercy as more powerful than Retributive Justice which comes back to bite us. Love of truth that liberates us is what overcomes fear that cripples us.

2. In Buddhism, this is called KARMA.
We can either pay back bad karma with MORE bad karma which repeats the cycle
and ENTRAPS us in suffering.

or we can do differently and BREAK the cycle of sin or karma
and answer negative with positive to change the situation around.

In Buddhism it is called answering Anger with Compassion.
Correcting Ignorance with Wisdom.
Answering Greed with Generosity and Charity.

Christianity takes this to a more concentrated level by uniting
people collectively in one spirit of Restorative Justice, or Justice and Peace,
by naming it under CHRIST JESUS as a central unifying authority.

Buddhism teaches this individually but doesn't teach it collectively
as Christianity teaches that this will be fulfilled in the future.

So yes these are different, but they still teach the same universal process.
Buddhism focuses on the individual MIND and discipline internally to find INNER PEACE.
Christianity focuses on the RELATIONSHIP between individuals
with each other as neighbors and with humanity collectively as the Kingdom of God
or heavenly peace on earth.

We need both levels inside and out.

Okay. I don't know what "brand" of Christianity you are practicing, but it is not any of the branches of mainstream Christianity. I have worshipped as a Baptist, Methodist, Assembly of God, and have even studied the charismatic fundamentalist denominations. None of them would ever suggest that they are comparable to Buddhism; particularly when one considers that Buddhism is a Godless religion. It does not recognise a supernatural deity.

So, I don't know what you practice, but it is not Christianity. It sounds more like some personal deistic spiritualism that has incorporated some aspects of Christianity into it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, it's not. The Bible is quite visceral, particularly in Revelations, in it's descriptions of the suffering of the damned. Jesus was also quite vivid in his description of Hell in his story of the suffering of the Rich man in Hell.

You misunderstand the Bible. Jesus is not threatening to send you to Hell, he's telling you that if you don't accept God, God will not accept you. "Hell" is living in the absence of God, and there's no protection from evil. BTW, it's "Revelation", not Revelation(s).

Because, frankly, I am separates from that God now, and I do not feel terribly tortured.

You haven't left Earth yet either.

sounds like the real world right here

face it you can pray all you want but you are not protected from evil

 

[Mudda]

God made us all to have some homo buddies to hang with, when he found out that Adam had had hetero sex, he booted him out of gay heaven, and he's been pissed ever since.

 

[Czernobog]

Its not just the Christina religion. Its all Abrahamic religions. God was very much a tyrant.

Well, that's true. However, Judaism doesn't tend to proselytise like Christianity, and Islam do. Although, in all fairness, Christianity hasn't exactly pros3elytised the way that Islam does for about 400 years. Islam still tends to choose more violent means of conversion. Give them another 400 years, and I suspect they will work much like Christianity.

 

[TNHarley]

Its not just the Christina religion. Its all Abrahamic religions. God was very much a tyrant.

Well, that's true. However, Judaism doesn't tend to proselytise like Christianity, and Islam do. Although, in all fairness, Christianity hasn't exactly pros3elytised the way that Islam does for about 400 years. Islam still tends to choose more violent means of conversion. Give them another 400 years, and I suspect they will work much like Christianity.

Maybe not as bad. But I agree.
Considering how much more advanced society is, they will be doing it sooner. Hopefully.

 

[Brynmr]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

 

[percysunshine]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

Extra-terrestrial being mind control is the current best guess.

 

[S.J.]

No, it's not. The Bible is quite visceral, particularly in Revelations, in it's descriptions of the suffering of the damned. Jesus was also quite vivid in his description of Hell in his story of the suffering of the Rich man in Hell.

You misunderstand the Bible. Jesus is not threatening to send you to Hell, he's telling you that if you don't accept God, God will not accept you. "Hell" is living in the absence of God, and there's no protection from evil. BTW, it's "Revelation", not Revelation(s).

Because, frankly, I am separates from that God now, and I do not feel terribly tortured.

You haven't left Earth yet either.

sounds like the real world right here

face it you can pray all you want but you are not protected from evil

I'm not talking about life on Earth.

 

[Czernobog]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

It's the whole fear of consequences thing. The whole reason for giving such detailed descriptions of all of the horrors that await those who "reject God", and "
choose a life of sin" is to make the consequences of doing so frightening that one chooses to obey. When the consequences of disobedience is so severe, and unpleasant that it terrifies one into obedience, then obedience is no longer really a choice, is it?

 

[Vastator]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

It's the whole fear of consequences thing. The whole reason for giving such detailed descriptions of all of the horrors that await those who "reject God", and "
choose a life of sin" is to make the consequences of doing so frightening that one chooses to obey. When the consequences of disobedience is so severe, and unpleasant that it terrifies one into obedience, then obedience is no longer really a choice, is it?

That changes it from conversion, to coersion...

 

[Czernobog]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

Extra-terrestrial being mind control is the current best guess.

 

[SoCalSmurf]

God in His immense love for mankind created humans to be with Him as part of a most loving heavenly family with the angels. There is nothing more beautiful for the Christian than this. To go against this is to go against all we were created for. It is the human and angelic condition that we are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife. One suffers spiritual death, is in ruins and of no value or worth. Man is better off had he not been born. Hence, the value of salvation is greater than the sum of our lives. God is a righteous God and must punish sin. Evil would burn in the hearts of man otherwise. Due to man's iniquities, man was unable to be with God and was to be punished. God, in His great plans and love for mankind sent His only begotten Son as Christ, the Redeemer, so that the souls of the believers can be salvaged and that we may not suffer the human condition of being without Him.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

God has proven His love for mankind through His Son Jesus Christ.

 

[Czernobog]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

It's the whole fear of consequences thing. The whole reason for giving such detailed descriptions of all of the horrors that await those who "reject God", and "
choose a life of sin" is to make the consequences of doing so frightening that one chooses to obey. When the consequences of disobedience is so severe, and unpleasant that it terrifies one into obedience, then obedience is no longer really a choice, is it?

That changes it from conversion, to coersion...

Precisely.

 

[percysunshine]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

It's the whole fear of consequences thing. The whole reason for giving such detailed descriptions of all of the horrors that await those who "reject God", and "
choose a life of sin" is to make the consequences of doing so frightening that one chooses to obey. When the consequences of disobedience is so severe, and unpleasant that it terrifies one into obedience, then obedience is no longer really a choice, is it?

You are a human being who is free to make choices. Lots of choices.

 

[Czernobog]

God in His immense love for mankind created humans to be with Him as part of a most loving heavenly family with the angels. There is nothing more beautiful for the Christian than this. To go against this is to go against all we were created for. It is the human and angelic condition that we are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife. One suffers spiritual death, is in ruins and of no value or worth. Man is better off had he not been born. Hence, the value of salvation is greater than the sum of our lives. God is a righteous God and must punish sin. Evil would burn in the hearts of man otherwise. Due to man's iniquities, man was unable to be with God and was to be punished. God, in His great plans and love for mankind sent His only begotten Son as Christ, the Redeemer, so that the souls of the believers can be salvaged and that we may not suffer the human condition of being without Him.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

God has proven His love for mankind through His Son Jesus Christ.

So, to be clear, is it your contention that the "soul" is not eternal?

 

[Vastator]

God has proven His love for mankind through His Son Jesus Christ.

No. No he hasn't.

 

[percysunshine]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

Extra-terrestrial being mind control is the current best guess.

.
I am not trolling, I am making a point.

You appear to feel threatened by things you either do, or do not believe in. It is impossible for something which does not exist to be a threat.

So, you will always have the out of going either atheist, or agnostic.

 

[SoCalSmurf]

God in His immense love for mankind created humans to be with Him as part of a most loving heavenly family with the angels. There is nothing more beautiful for the Christian than this. To go against this is to go against all we were created for. It is the human and angelic condition that we are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife. One suffers spiritual death, is in ruins and of no value or worth. Man is better off had he not been born. Hence, the value of salvation is greater than the sum of our lives. God is a righteous God and must punish sin. Evil would burn in the hearts of man otherwise. Due to man's iniquities, man was unable to be with God and was to be punished. God, in His great plans and love for mankind sent His only begotten Son as Christ, the Redeemer, so that the souls of the believers can be salvaged and that we may not suffer the human condition of being without Him.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

God has proven His love for mankind through His Son Jesus Christ.

So, to be clear, is it your contention that the "soul" is not eternal?

The soul is both eternal and immortal.

 

[Czernobog]

Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

How is this god forcing you to convert to Christianity?

It's the whole fear of consequences thing. The whole reason for giving such detailed descriptions of all of the horrors that await those who "reject God", and "
choose a life of sin" is to make the consequences of doing so frightening that one chooses to obey. When the consequences of disobedience is so severe, and unpleasant that it terrifies one into obedience, then obedience is no longer really a choice, is it?

You are a human being who is free to make choices. Lots of choices.

Sure. I'll give you a choice:

Choice A: Open door #1. when you do, you wife is going to be cut into pieces in front of you. You child is going to be anally raped, and ground up, and fed to the remander of your family, while you are forced to watch them eat, and your dog is going to be killed, skinned, fried, and force fed to you.

Choice B: Open Door # 2. When you do, you eill be given $1 Billion dollars, paid any way you will, tax free, a free home anywhere in the world that you would like to live, a vehicle of your choice, with free petrol for the rest of your life, and your children's compete education will be paid for, up through, and including any graduate program they may wish to persue.

I am going to lay out, precisely the two options that are available to you, and then ask you to choose. Now, you are a human being. You have a "choice", right? You see, a choice in which one choice is so terrifying that it is practically inconceivable, is not a choice at all.

 

[miketx]

i knew a guy once who said the Bible was written by a bunch of old men who sat around and drank wine, and thought men could walk on water.