Greatest thread to human civilization : capitalist greed - Stephen Hawkin

[AVG-JOE]

Greed is good. It makes Monkeys somewhat predictable.

Just remember that through out history, being a sociopath or a psychopath has increased the odds of acquiring enough resources to pass your DNA up the timeline.

Perhaps true for sociopaths, but not for psychopaths. Most politicians are sociopaths. Yet, libs want to give these vermin control over their lives.

Give them?

Where the fuck you been?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Perhaps true for sociopaths, but not for psychopaths. Most politicians are sociopaths. Yet, libs want to give these vermin control over their lives.

maybe its that in most senses humans are pack animals and thus always looking for the leader of the pack! Mankind had always been that way and always would have been had it not been for our genius libertarian Founders.

 

[Andylusion]

Ed,
The central bank ( aka the Fed ) is NOT state owned.

dear, the question was not about whether it is state owned. In fact it is state controlled and it manipulates our currency every bit as much as China's central bank! NOw do you understand?

So the bankers own it but they can't controll it ? Ja , don't make me laugh. Do you really think the FED will take a decision which will make the banks loose money ?
Who do you think gets screwed with QE? Banks ? JAJAJA.

Dude... the Federal Reserve only exists because the Federal government created it in law.
The all seven chair members of the Federal reserve are appointed by the President of the United States, and confirmed by the United States Senate.
The Chairman of the Federal Reserve MUST report to congress on their activities and to the Secretary of the Treasury.

Now how anyone can say "The central bank ( aka the Fed ) is NOT state owned." is beyond comprehension. If you expect anyone to take anything you say as more than a pathetic side show to laugh at, you had better start making fewer unbelievably idiotic statements like this.

I'm all for intelligent debate, and that first requires making intelligent comments. That doesn't qualify.

The fed is not owned by the government, as much as the communist party of China supports democracy, because people got to vote on the one party they have. Grow up dude.

 

[CultureCitizen]

So the bankers own it but they can't controll it ? Ja , don't make me laugh.

yes dear its usually controlled by college professors like Bernanke and Yellen. Does Citi bank control Yellen?????????????


See why we say slow??????

Indeed, Yellen , Greenspan, Bernake, big servants of the banking system.
Even conservatives agree with this. See what an intelligent conservative like Peter Schiff who predicted the SPM crisis has to say about the Fed and its minions

 

[Andylusion]

Asian economies lean toward mercantile capitalism at the expense of their low-wage-earning citizens.

actually China just eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty by switching to capitalism.

If china was a more open economy, it would be a more modern capitalist model like the US, rather than a fairly tightly administrated mercantile system. Modern, rather than mercantile capitalism is the lesson to follow.

But it's not. That's a false claim. Nothing mercantile about it.

 

[bripat9643]

Back in the days when the good Christian king owned everything including the white folks, it was the corporate interests of the day.

It's all about perspective.

There were no corporations in those days, moron.

Are you seriously that thick?!?

You're fucking with me, right?

The point being that ours is not the first generation to be divided along socioeconomic lines, and the "haves" don't have a stellar record through history of their treatment of the "have nots".... just as the theory of macro evolution would predict.

Fortunately, the extremes do not define the species.

That's right, asshole, there were no corporations of the kind we know today in those days. There were entities, which they called "corporations" which were actually fiefdoms in which the crown granted a monopoly on all commerce within a given area in exchange for a cut of the proceeds.

The fact that some have acquired more than others has always been true, and it always will be true. The difference is that previous to capitalism people became wealthy because they were born into the aristocracy and had special legal privileges. They were also given grants of land by the kings. Nowadays to become wealthy you have to produce something that people are voluntarily willing to exchange their cash for.

 

[IsaacNewton]

"Hawkin" has a point.

Eventually, if labor is eliminated, capitalism as we know it will be too.

His point though is that the few who own the machines will not give up their wealth voluntarily. Thus a violent revolution. Twas always thus and always thus will be.

100% stupid of course since there is no point in owning machines unless they can make products distributed to all. IF they don't do that the machines are worthless!!

NOw do you understand?

You are lost to this conversation, try the flamer forum.

 

[IsaacNewton]

. A new Earth is coming,.

this is true we are in a 15-20 year cooling period and hurricane/cyclone activity is way down!!

You are as ignorant and easily led as a human being can be.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The Chairman of the Federal Reserve MUST report to congress on their activities and to the Secretary of the Treasury.

"Have they ever come out with a plan that is you can say with a straight face is credible ?
...
The Fed is required to call it every year if this institutions have a credible plan ."
Has anything happened since this hearing?
... it doesn't seem like the Fed is playing tough on the banks, rather the opposite.
Perhaps it is no secreet there is a revolving door between the heads of the Fed and the banking system.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Easter Island collapsed due to a lack of environmental policy : they cut down all the trees. No trees, no timber , no fishing boats, followed by deaths until they reached a sustainable level.

Mayans were not socialists. They collapsed because they overpopulated the zone, and then a drought hit them.
A similar situation is happening in California, luckily the US is centuries more advanced than the mayans, so I am confident the outcome will be different.

So actualluy none of them collapsed due to overpopulation. Another liberal claim refuted.
California has a drought because policiticans fucked up. Socialism kills.

Rabi,

Indeed, overpopulation was not the only factor but the main and driving factor. In the case of easter island
Overpopulation lead to overuse of resources which lead to complete deforestation which in turn caused their collapse.

"Barbara A. West wrote, "Sometime before the arrival of Europeans on Easter Island, the Rapanui experienced a tremendous upheaval in their social system brought about by a change in their island's ecology... By the time of European arrival in 1722, the island's population had dropped to 2,000–3,000 from a high of approximately 15,000 just a century earlier."

Easter Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, mankind stuck on a very small island with no natural predators is an invitation for disaster. No question. The Earth on the other hand has a carrying capacity estimated at 40 BILLION people. We will never get anywhere near that number though. Population increase is already dropping world wide. Demographers calculate the world population will peak at 9 billion then level off back down to 6 billion.

The estimated carrying capacity for Earth for humans is 20-25 billion people, or less. Depends on technologies. Some estimates are between 4-16 billion.

We are already seeing a worldwide shortage of fresh water with 7 billion. It would be great if the human population started to decrease but that isn't in the near future so all the problems we see now are going to get worse.

Global Warming, however, is going to make the entire equation a mute point. Whether humans know it or not. A new Earth is coming, and it isn't very friendly to any life.

Shortages are due to in adequate distribution of resources. Corruption in the Third World is THE leading cause of hunger and the miserable deaths those poor people get to enjoy. In the 1960's the birth rate was 2.6. It is now at 1.6 and dropping so you are wrong.

Global warming as an agent of doom is a myth. Every shred of written history shows that when the planet has been warmer it has done better. We have numerous records (mostly taxman related) that show beyond doubt the benefit of a warmer world for man, animal, and plant.

Again, ignorance on parade. I'm sure if you lived in Tennessee in 1860 you'd be telling people why slavery is good for them.

I'm sorry the world's PH.D's disagree with you, but you think you are smarter than they. It is self delusion on a grand scale.

The world is already beginning to change due to Global Warming and it will be catastrophic for all life on Earth, especially larger mammals like humans. We are entering a period not seen on Earth for at least 20 million years and likely much longer.

If reality is too scary, go hide. And this conversation is off the OP so take it to the Environment forum, thanks.

 

[bripat9643]

So actualluy none of them collapsed due to overpopulation. Another liberal claim refuted.
California has a drought because policiticans fucked up. Socialism kills.

Rabi,

Indeed, overpopulation was not the only factor but the main and driving factor. In the case of easter island
Overpopulation lead to overuse of resources which lead to complete deforestation which in turn caused their collapse.

"Barbara A. West wrote, "Sometime before the arrival of Europeans on Easter Island, the Rapanui experienced a tremendous upheaval in their social system brought about by a change in their island's ecology... By the time of European arrival in 1722, the island's population had dropped to 2,000–3,000 from a high of approximately 15,000 just a century earlier."

Easter Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, mankind stuck on a very small island with no natural predators is an invitation for disaster. No question. The Earth on the other hand has a carrying capacity estimated at 40 BILLION people. We will never get anywhere near that number though. Population increase is already dropping world wide. Demographers calculate the world population will peak at 9 billion then level off back down to 6 billion.

The estimated carrying capacity for Earth for humans is 20-25 billion people, or less. Depends on technologies. Some estimates are between 4-16 billion.

We are already seeing a worldwide shortage of fresh water with 7 billion. It would be great if the human population started to decrease but that isn't in the near future so all the problems we see now are going to get worse.

Global Warming, however, is going to make the entire equation a mute point. Whether humans know it or not. A new Earth is coming, and it isn't very friendly to any life.

Shortages are due to in adequate distribution of resources. Corruption in the Third World is THE leading cause of hunger and the miserable deaths those poor people get to enjoy. In the 1960's the birth rate was 2.6. It is now at 1.6 and dropping so you are wrong.

Global warming as an agent of doom is a myth. Every shred of written history shows that when the planet has been warmer it has done better. We have numerous records (mostly taxman related) that show beyond doubt the benefit of a warmer world for man, animal, and plant.

Again, ignorance on parade. I'm sure if you lived in Tennessee in 1860 you'd be telling people why slavery is good for them.

I'm sorry the world's PH.D's disagree with you, but you think you are smarter than they. It is self delusion on a grand scale.

The world is already beginning to change due to Global Warming and it will be catastrophic for all life on Earth, especially larger mammals like humans. We are entering a period not seen on Earth for at least 20 million years and likely much longer.

If reality too scary, go hide.

Only the terminally gullible are falling for the global warming con. It appears libs just can't bare to imagine a future that has a happy ending. They seem to thrive on gloom and doom. Of course, they always need a bogeyman because no one would go their nefarious schemes otherwise.

 

[Programmer]

Asian economies lean toward mercantile capitalism at the expense of their low-wage-earning citizens.

actually China just eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty by switching to capitalism.

If china was a more open economy, it would be a more modern capitalist model like the US, rather than a fairly tightly administrated mercantile system. Modern, rather than mercantile capitalism is the lesson to follow.

But it's not. That's a false claim. Nothing mercantile about it.

I disagree. They bank on trade surplus and protectionism. The shoe fits.

 

[LeftofLeft]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

What about Communists and Socialists leaders and Dictators who control all of Capitalism? Those Fucks are really greedy. There is no such thing as wealth distribution.

 

[Programmer]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

What about Communists and Socialists leaders and Dictators who control all of Capitalism? Those Fucks are really greedy. There is no such thing as wealth distribution.

I guess it's not wealth anymore, right? Some kind of semantic puzzle?

 

[The Rabbi]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

Idiots. It is amazing how some of the smartest people can be so dumb.
Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than anything else. IT's benefits are literally without precedence.

Hawkins has facts you could never accept on his side.
Capitalism prior to the 1980s was great but then things changed, facts back it up.
Offshoring jobs started and wage growth flattened out for most workers, both started in the 1980's. Down the road wealth/income inequality followed. Find me economist that dispute this other than your typical hyper-partisan economists, even most of them agree with facts from the real world.

So any economist that dsputes this is ipse facto a "hyper partisan". LOL! What a fucking tool bag.
Did you forget the growth in the 90s under Clinton, piggybacking on Reagan's success? Did you forget the stagflation in the 70s thanks to Carter and Nixon? For that matter did you forget the Depression in the 1930s, when everyone said capitalism was doomed? Or the prosperity in the 1920s?
You have a simple mind so to you everything is simple.

This simple mind chased you away every time we have had this discussion.
The last time we interacted, I provided links to a highly regarded resource and guaranteed I was 100% correct. You never responded or in other words you ran away.
If my simple mind does this to you consistently, what does that say about you?
It's always the same with you and I guarantee, you are inferior to me.

Translation: I dont have the chops for this discussion.
No, you really dont. Better to declare victory and run away than face the facts. Post a graph, why dontcha?

 

[The Rabbi]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

Mankind's lot prior to capitalism was pretty grim. Average life expectancy for all but the wealthy was 35 to 40. No travel, tied down to an area of around 10 square miles for your entire life. A whole litany of pains due to a work week approaching 80 hours per. No real entertainment other than fighting, screwing and the occasional wedding.

Yep, the pre capitalist life was WONDERFUL!

It was science and the industrial revolution which did that, not Capitalism.
And then the form of Capitalism that spawned the industrial revolution was merchantilism , not our current system.
If your argument was true, life expectancy would be very low in Cuba , and it's almost as high as in the US.
Now , that doesn't mean their government or economic system should be a model, I am just pointing out the flaws in your statements.

Seriously? The Industrial Revolution paralleled the rise of capitalism. It would not have succeeded except for capitalism.
As for Cuba, I suppose you could cherry pick examples to show that Cuba exceeds the US in something or other, based on official Cuban data, which is falsified. But the fact is Cuba is one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere with a GDP about what it was under Battista.

 

[The Rabbi]

What's going to be interesting is when machines start replacing all mid-level management jobs --

100% stupid. the wheel is a machine and it has replaced billions of people since it was invented and still unemployment is 5.1%
What does that teach you???

What does that teach him? Not much, I'm afraid.

 

[The Rabbi]

Indeed, greed for the unearned is a tragic disease....

You mean , like the bankers getting T-Bills in exchange for their assets, which in turn translates into an increas in government debt which has to be paid by taxpayers ?
Do you mean that kind of greed? a 4 Trillion size greed ?

Did someone hold a gun to the Fed's head and tell them to do this? No, it was Fed policy. Again, government is the source of corruption, not the solution.

 

[bripat9643]

“If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.” Hawking continued, “Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

We have been warned.

Stephen Hawking Warns About The Greatest Threat To Humanity | Zero Hedge

Mankind's lot prior to capitalism was pretty grim. Average life expectancy for all but the wealthy was 35 to 40. No travel, tied down to an area of around 10 square miles for your entire life. A whole litany of pains due to a work week approaching 80 hours per. No real entertainment other than fighting, screwing and the occasional wedding.

Yep, the pre capitalist life was WONDERFUL!

It was science and the industrial revolution which did that, not Capitalism.
And then the form of Capitalism that spawned the industrial revolution was merchantilism , not our current system.
If your argument was true, life expectancy would be very low in Cuba , and it's almost as high as in the US.
Now , that doesn't mean their government or economic system should be a model, I am just pointing out the flaws in your statements.

Seriously? The Industrial Revolution paralleled the rise of capitalism. It would not have succeeded except for capitalism.
As for Cuba, I suppose you could cherry pick examples to show that Cuba exceeds the US in something or other, based on official Cuban data, which is falsified. But the fact is Cuba is one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere with a GDP about what it was under Battista.

Cuba's GDP is far lower now than it was under Batista.

 

[The Rabbi]

Medicine predates capitalism Ed

dear, do you have any idea what subject is?? IF so why not tell us

With that response he is nearly out of the discussion. No one argues medicine as a field predated capitalism. So did banking. So what?