Gun Debate Illustrates Two Different Americas

[Brain357]

It proves your source is a complete joke. He claims more guns equals less crime. Yet with the most concealed carry ever what is happening?
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Lott’s data and honesty have been repeatedly called into question by other academics. In one case, he claimed to have done a survey that found in 98 percent of cases when a weapon is used in self-defense, it was only brandished and not fired. When other academics asked for his data, Lott claimed he lost it as the result of a catastrophic hard drive crash.

What you ignore is that since CCW programs started being adopted by more and more states, violent crime and gun crimes have been on a near steady decrease. That started in the early 90's and continues today.

There is an old saying: If it's not broke, don't fix it. As long as we have something that's working, why change anything?

However my pervious post was not about more guns. My post was to point out that even in countries that have stricter gun laws, we still only rank 11 in the world as far as mass shootings go.

Violent crime and murder relates more to race population than guns or no guns.

You just saw that violent crime has increased with CCW at it's height right? And you realize since the 90's we had the Clinton crime bill which lowered crime and we did get some gun control. But now that CCW is high violent crime is increasing....

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

It shows us that violent crime is up with concealed carry. And Chicago has concealed carry, so hardly restrictive gun laws...

Meanwhile in New York city that actually has strong gun laws, crime is declining:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-crime-2017.html

 

[Brain357]

It proves your source is a complete joke. He claims more guns equals less crime. Yet with the most concealed carry ever what is happening?
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Lott’s data and honesty have been repeatedly called into question by other academics. In one case, he claimed to have done a survey that found in 98 percent of cases when a weapon is used in self-defense, it was only brandished and not fired. When other academics asked for his data, Lott claimed he lost it as the result of a catastrophic hard drive crash.

What you ignore is that since CCW programs started being adopted by more and more states, violent crime and gun crimes have been on a near steady decrease. That started in the early 90's and continues today.

There is an old saying: If it's not broke, don't fix it. As long as we have something that's working, why change anything?

However my pervious post was not about more guns. My post was to point out that even in countries that have stricter gun laws, we still only rank 11 in the world as far as mass shootings go.

Violent crime and murder relates more to race population than guns or no guns.

You just saw that violent crime has increased with CCW at it's height right? And you realize since the 90's we had the Clinton crime bill which lowered crime and we did get some gun control. But now that CCW is high violent crime is increasing....

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

Look at Wisconsin. Crime has increased every single year since they got concealed carry.

 

[DrLove]

My 9mm uses a 15 round magazine. I can fit two in the left back pocket of my jeans, two in my right back pocket, two in each of my front pockets. That means with only my jeans on, I can carry 120 rounds.

Wow - that makes you a real badass!

 

[2aguy]

What you ignore is that since CCW programs started being adopted by more and more states, violent crime and gun crimes have been on a near steady decrease. That started in the early 90's and continues today.

There is an old saying: If it's not broke, don't fix it. As long as we have something that's working, why change anything?

However my pervious post was not about more guns. My post was to point out that even in countries that have stricter gun laws, we still only rank 11 in the world as far as mass shootings go.

Violent crime and murder relates more to race population than guns or no guns.

You just saw that violent crime has increased with CCW at it's height right? And you realize since the 90's we had the Clinton crime bill which lowered crime and we did get some gun control. But now that CCW is high violent crime is increasing....

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

It shows us that violent crime is up with concealed carry. And Chicago has concealed carry, so hardly restrictive gun laws...

Meanwhile in New York city that actually has strong gun laws, crime is declining:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-crime-2017.html

No.....crime is not up with concealed carry you lying troll...you have been shown the truth and you continue to lie....

Chicago has been run by democrats for close to 100 years....and they follow the democrat policy of letting violent gun felons out of jail.....just like D.C., St. Louis and Baltimore....
And New York has a low crime rate right now because of Rudy Giuliani and his crime fighting techniques...which de blasio is throwing away...

Don’t Take the Wrong Lessons from NYC’s Murder Drop

New York City’s formerly high-crime neighborhoods have experienced a stunning degree of gentrification over the last 15 years, thanks to the proactive-policing-induced conquest of crime. It is that gentrification which is now helping fuel the ongoing crime drop. Urban hipsters are flocking to areas that once were the purview of drug dealers and pimps, trailing in their wake legitimate commerce and street life, which further attracts law-abiding activity and residents in a virtuous cycle of increasing public safety.

The degree of demographic change is startling.

In Brooklyn’s Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood, for example, the number of white residents rose 1,235 percent from 2000 to 2015, while the black population decreased by 17 percent, reports City Lab.

In Bushwick, Brooklyn, the number of whites rose 610 percent over that same decade and a half; the black population was down 22 percent. Central Harlem’s white population rose 846 percent; the black share dropped 10 percent. In 2000, whites were about three-quarters of the black population in Brownsville-Ocean Hill; by 2015, there were twice as many whites as blacks.

In 2000, whites were one-third of the black population in Crown Heights North and Prospect Heights; now they exceed the black population by 20,000. The Brooklyn Navy Yards has now been declared the next cool place to be by the tech industry. Business owners are moving their residences as well as their enterprises to the area.


This demographic transformation has enormous implications for crime.

A black New Yorker is 50 times more likely to commit a shooting than a white New Yorker, according to perpetrator identifications provided to the police by witnesses to, and victims of, those shootings.

Those victims are overwhelmingly minority themselves.

When the racial balance of a neighborhood changes radically, given those crime disparities, its violent-crime rate will as well. (This racial crime disparity reflects the breakdown of the black family and the high percentage of black males — upwards of 80 percent in some neighborhoods — being raised by single mothers.)

----

The high-crime areas of Baltimore and Chicago have not been gentrified. Baltimore is experiencing its highest per capita murder rate for the third year in a row. While Chicago’s homicide numbers are down somewhat this year, thanks to the aggressive use of shot-spotter technology, they remain at a level far higher than in the past decade.

 

[Foxfyre]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

Coming to this thread late, but what you are describing I think is the intense indoctrination that is being infused into young people throughout the education system. It began following zone out-drop out-tune out revolution of the 60's, mimicking the political revolutions of Russia et al earlier in the 20th Century. It was that group, with motives to change the world for the better, that rejected their parent's better values that could have accomplished that, and then adopted the radical 'progressive' views of Marx and other extreme socialistic concepts. And as they grew up they went into professions that gave them more power to effect change: media, education, science, social influence organizations et al. And as they tended to mentor and groom those who were like themselves, within a generation or two they pretty well dominated those fields to the point that the conservative was the outlier and often felt uncomfortable in them.

Fast forward to today, and you see college campuses that protest and riot any different point of view having any kind of voice on those campuses and any prominent voice that is politically incorrect is demonstrated against and attacked, his place of work threatened, advertisers or customers or suppliers etc. threatened. It has become a form of brain washing that would make a communist dictator proud.

The anti-gun culture comes directly out of this--partially due to the progressive brain washing syndrome, and partially out of a practical sense that an unarmed citizenry is much less likely to oppose tyranny than is an armed one. And radical progressivism as government is a terrible tyranny as we have seen at its worst in Mao's China, the former Soviet Union, Cuba et al.

And do not think that there are not those who think the USA should also go that route but of course we would do it 'better' and without the downside.

Our problem is not the guns but a culture that has turned against itself and created divided and self-promoting groups, each believing itself to be superior to the others and motivated to oppose those different from themselves even as they actively work to bury the last of traditional American values that made us the great, strong nation we have been. And if we don't start turning that around, we will be ripe for the picking for the next Castro, Mao, Lenin/Stalin that is ready to make his move.

 

[2aguy]

What you ignore is that since CCW programs started being adopted by more and more states, violent crime and gun crimes have been on a near steady decrease. That started in the early 90's and continues today.

There is an old saying: If it's not broke, don't fix it. As long as we have something that's working, why change anything?

However my pervious post was not about more guns. My post was to point out that even in countries that have stricter gun laws, we still only rank 11 in the world as far as mass shootings go.

Violent crime and murder relates more to race population than guns or no guns.

You just saw that violent crime has increased with CCW at it's height right? And you realize since the 90's we had the Clinton crime bill which lowered crime and we did get some gun control. But now that CCW is high violent crime is increasing....

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

Look at Wisconsin. Crime has increased every single year since they got concealed carry.

You are a lying sack......you are an asshole...

Bucking national trend, violent crime down in the Green Bay area

In Green Bay, those type of crimes are down in the last year. They're down 13 percent over the past six years.

Even property crimes are decreasing. Police credit the community for driving these numbers down.



As another violent year ends, memories of homicide victims live on

Milwaukee's per capita homicide rate was 23.7 per 100,000 residents — a lower rate than the 26.27 per 100,000 residents in 1991.


“You’re seeing a rebirth:” Crime rates in Milwaukee’s Amani neighborhood down significantly

The data shows crime in 2016 compared with 2015 was down in the Amani neighborhood by 10.42%. For the city as a whole, the decline was 4.66%.

---

Over the past four years: crime in the Amani neighborhood declined 26.36% -- for the city: 10.86%.

 

[2aguy]

What you ignore is that since CCW programs started being adopted by more and more states, violent crime and gun crimes have been on a near steady decrease. That started in the early 90's and continues today.

There is an old saying: If it's not broke, don't fix it. As long as we have something that's working, why change anything?

However my pervious post was not about more guns. My post was to point out that even in countries that have stricter gun laws, we still only rank 11 in the world as far as mass shootings go.

Violent crime and murder relates more to race population than guns or no guns.

You just saw that violent crime has increased with CCW at it's height right? And you realize since the 90's we had the Clinton crime bill which lowered crime and we did get some gun control. But now that CCW is high violent crime is increasing....

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

Look at Wisconsin. Crime has increased every single year since they got concealed carry.

You are such a lying troll.......you should do some research before you post something that is easily checked...

Milwaukee police: Homicides down two years in a row

MILWAUKEE - The number of homicides in Milwaukee has decreased over the last two years, according to data from the Milwaukee Police Department.

According to the MPD, there were 119 homicides in 2017, down from 142 in 2016. In 2015 there were 147 homicides.

 

[deanrd]

Two different America's?

One side see's children as targets to be hunted. The other side are Democrats.

 

[2aguy]

What you ignore is that since CCW programs started being adopted by more and more states, violent crime and gun crimes have been on a near steady decrease. That started in the early 90's and continues today.

There is an old saying: If it's not broke, don't fix it. As long as we have something that's working, why change anything?

However my pervious post was not about more guns. My post was to point out that even in countries that have stricter gun laws, we still only rank 11 in the world as far as mass shootings go.

Violent crime and murder relates more to race population than guns or no guns.

You just saw that violent crime has increased with CCW at it's height right? And you realize since the 90's we had the Clinton crime bill which lowered crime and we did get some gun control. But now that CCW is high violent crime is increasing....

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

Look at Wisconsin. Crime has increased every single year since they got concealed carry.

And more....you lying troll...

No homicides in Green Bay in 2017 contributes to 10 percent drop in crime

GREEN BAY, Wis. (WFRV) - The Green Bay Police Department reports crime in the city dropped significantly last year - compared to the year before. Local 5's Kris Schuller has more on the numbers and reaction from residents who feel very safe living in Northeast Wisconsin.

If there's trouble within the Wilder Park neighborhood - Neighborhood Association President Scott Vanidestine says he can contact police and they'll respond quickly.

“They know the neighborhoods, they know what's going on. They take care of us out there,” said Vanidestine.

And based on just released uniform crime report numbers for the city of Green Bay for 2017 - the police department does a good job of taking care of the entire community.

“A 9.77 percent decrease in total crime in Green Bay is just fantastic, that's a number any chief across the country would be happy to have for crime numbers in their city,” said Police Chief Andrew Smith.

For violent crime robbery was down nearly 10 percent, rape nearly four and as for homicides, we'll there weren't any.

“We haven't done that since 1981 in Green Bay, so that's a terrific number for us as well,” said Smith.

Property crimes also saw significant reductions with burglary down 28 percent and theft down eight percent. Combined total crime in 2017 was down almost 10 percent when compared to 2016.

 

[2aguy]

Two different America's?

One side see's children as targets to be hunted. The other side are Democrats.

The democrats refuse to allow gun safety education in schools.

The democrats don't want armed guards or teachers in schools....democrat gun free killing zones..

The democrats keep releasing violent gun criminals and other killers back onto our streets...

The democrats thrive on death....

 

[Brain357]

You just saw that violent crime has increased with CCW at it's height right? And you realize since the 90's we had the Clinton crime bill which lowered crime and we did get some gun control. But now that CCW is high violent crime is increasing....

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

It shows us that violent crime is up with concealed carry. And Chicago has concealed carry, so hardly restrictive gun laws...

Meanwhile in New York city that actually has strong gun laws, crime is declining:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-crime-2017.html

No.....crime is not up with concealed carry you lying troll...you have been shown the truth and you continue to lie....

Chicago has been run by democrats for close to 100 years....and they follow the democrat policy of letting violent gun felons out of jail.....just like D.C., St. Louis and Baltimore....
And New York has a low crime rate right now because of Rudy Giuliani and his crime fighting techniques...which de blasio is throwing away...

Don’t Take the Wrong Lessons from NYC’s Murder Drop

New York City’s formerly high-crime neighborhoods have experienced a stunning degree of gentrification over the last 15 years, thanks to the proactive-policing-induced conquest of crime. It is that gentrification which is now helping fuel the ongoing crime drop. Urban hipsters are flocking to areas that once were the purview of drug dealers and pimps, trailing in their wake legitimate commerce and street life, which further attracts law-abiding activity and residents in a virtuous cycle of increasing public safety.

The degree of demographic change is startling.

In Brooklyn’s Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood, for example, the number of white residents rose 1,235 percent from 2000 to 2015, while the black population decreased by 17 percent, reports City Lab.

In Bushwick, Brooklyn, the number of whites rose 610 percent over that same decade and a half; the black population was down 22 percent. Central Harlem’s white population rose 846 percent; the black share dropped 10 percent. In 2000, whites were about three-quarters of the black population in Brownsville-Ocean Hill; by 2015, there were twice as many whites as blacks.

In 2000, whites were one-third of the black population in Crown Heights North and Prospect Heights; now they exceed the black population by 20,000. The Brooklyn Navy Yards has now been declared the next cool place to be by the tech industry. Business owners are moving their residences as well as their enterprises to the area.


This demographic transformation has enormous implications for crime.

A black New Yorker is 50 times more likely to commit a shooting than a white New Yorker, according to perpetrator identifications provided to the police by witnesses to, and victims of, those shootings.

Those victims are overwhelmingly minority themselves.

When the racial balance of a neighborhood changes radically, given those crime disparities, its violent-crime rate will as well. (This racial crime disparity reflects the breakdown of the black family and the high percentage of black males — upwards of 80 percent in some neighborhoods — being raised by single mothers.)

----

The high-crime areas of Baltimore and Chicago have not been gentrified. Baltimore is experiencing its highest per capita murder rate for the third year in a row. While Chicago’s homicide numbers are down somewhat this year, thanks to the aggressive use of shot-spotter technology, they remain at a level far higher than in the past decade.

Here you go:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Crime is up every single year in Wisconsin since getting carry...

 

[2aguy]

In fact, the 1994 ban was so fucking lame, all a mass shooter had to do was make sure he didn't meet the definition of an "assault weapon" and his gun was just as deadly.

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 defined certain firearms as assault weapons based on the features they possessed. This included semi-automatic rifles with a detachable magazine

and

at least two of these features:

a pistol grip,
a folding or telescoping stock,
a flash suppressor or threaded barrel,
a bayonet mount, or
a muzzle-mounted grenade launcher.

Thats why we need a ban on high capacity magazines.

That can be done at the State Level. In Colorado, we have a 15 capacity level limit. The Aurora Theater Shooting caused that. One person using an AR had a 100 round mag. He killed 45 people with just that weapon. It jammed on the 50 round level. He changed to his semi auto 40 handgun and bagged another 4. Imagine how many if that AR hadn't jammed and all 100 had been discharged. He stepped out to reload when they arrested him. He wounded over 300. The 40 wounded more than it killed and didn't penetrate. The AR killed and went through many people per shot. In a target rich situation, the AR is devastating.

Moron, he killed 12 people in the theater....not 45.....

Having watched a documentary on this shooting, he told the prison psychiatrist that he didn't want any of the killing to be personal....so when he walked into the theater from the side exit, he didn't shoot anyone in the rows closest to him....he fired over their heads into the higher level seats......which means......twit......had anyone in that front row had a concealed pistol, they could have ended the shooting almost immediately.........this had nothing to do with magazine capacity and everything to do with those people being disarmed by people like you.....

And as soon as he was confronted by a police officer...he surrendered.....he was not looking for a gun fight, he was looking to kill unarmed people....


No.....he chose that theater because it was a gun free zone while other theaters in the area allowed concealed carry. Magazine capacity had nothing to do with the casualty rate when he was shooting unarmed people....

We have actual research on this topic...you have seen it....you pretend it doesn't exist...you are a troll...

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

 

[Brain357]

Two different America's?

One side see's children as targets to be hunted. The other side are Democrats.

The democrats refuse to allow gun safety education in schools.

The democrats don't want armed guards or teachers in schools....democrat gun free killing zones..

The democrats keep releasing violent gun criminals and other killers back onto our streets...

The democrats thrive on death....

Democrats want gun control.

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem.

 

[2aguy]

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

It shows us that violent crime is up with concealed carry. And Chicago has concealed carry, so hardly restrictive gun laws...

Meanwhile in New York city that actually has strong gun laws, crime is declining:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-crime-2017.html

No.....crime is not up with concealed carry you lying troll...you have been shown the truth and you continue to lie....

Chicago has been run by democrats for close to 100 years....and they follow the democrat policy of letting violent gun felons out of jail.....just like D.C., St. Louis and Baltimore....
And New York has a low crime rate right now because of Rudy Giuliani and his crime fighting techniques...which de blasio is throwing away...

Don’t Take the Wrong Lessons from NYC’s Murder Drop

New York City’s formerly high-crime neighborhoods have experienced a stunning degree of gentrification over the last 15 years, thanks to the proactive-policing-induced conquest of crime. It is that gentrification which is now helping fuel the ongoing crime drop. Urban hipsters are flocking to areas that once were the purview of drug dealers and pimps, trailing in their wake legitimate commerce and street life, which further attracts law-abiding activity and residents in a virtuous cycle of increasing public safety.

The degree of demographic change is startling.

In Brooklyn’s Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood, for example, the number of white residents rose 1,235 percent from 2000 to 2015, while the black population decreased by 17 percent, reports City Lab.

In Bushwick, Brooklyn, the number of whites rose 610 percent over that same decade and a half; the black population was down 22 percent. Central Harlem’s white population rose 846 percent; the black share dropped 10 percent. In 2000, whites were about three-quarters of the black population in Brownsville-Ocean Hill; by 2015, there were twice as many whites as blacks.

In 2000, whites were one-third of the black population in Crown Heights North and Prospect Heights; now they exceed the black population by 20,000. The Brooklyn Navy Yards has now been declared the next cool place to be by the tech industry. Business owners are moving their residences as well as their enterprises to the area.


This demographic transformation has enormous implications for crime.

A black New Yorker is 50 times more likely to commit a shooting than a white New Yorker, according to perpetrator identifications provided to the police by witnesses to, and victims of, those shootings.

Those victims are overwhelmingly minority themselves.

When the racial balance of a neighborhood changes radically, given those crime disparities, its violent-crime rate will as well. (This racial crime disparity reflects the breakdown of the black family and the high percentage of black males — upwards of 80 percent in some neighborhoods — being raised by single mothers.)

----

The high-crime areas of Baltimore and Chicago have not been gentrified. Baltimore is experiencing its highest per capita murder rate for the third year in a row. While Chicago’s homicide numbers are down somewhat this year, thanks to the aggressive use of shot-spotter technology, they remain at a level far higher than in the past decade.

Here you go:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Crime is up every single year in Wisconsin since getting carry...

Moron, I just posted link after link showing you are wrong.....from actual local sources......lying troll....

 

[Brain357]

You just saw that violent crime has increased with CCW at it's height right? And you realize since the 90's we had the Clinton crime bill which lowered crime and we did get some gun control. But now that CCW is high violent crime is increasing....

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

Look at Wisconsin. Crime has increased every single year since they got concealed carry.

And more....you lying troll...

No homicides in Green Bay in 2017 contributes to 10 percent drop in crime

GREEN BAY, Wis. (WFRV) - The Green Bay Police Department reports crime in the city dropped significantly last year - compared to the year before. Local 5's Kris Schuller has more on the numbers and reaction from residents who feel very safe living in Northeast Wisconsin.

If there's trouble within the Wilder Park neighborhood - Neighborhood Association President Scott Vanidestine says he can contact police and they'll respond quickly.

“They know the neighborhoods, they know what's going on. They take care of us out there,” said Vanidestine.

And based on just released uniform crime report numbers for the city of Green Bay for 2017 - the police department does a good job of taking care of the entire community.

“A 9.77 percent decrease in total crime in Green Bay is just fantastic, that's a number any chief across the country would be happy to have for crime numbers in their city,” said Police Chief Andrew Smith.

For violent crime robbery was down nearly 10 percent, rape nearly four and as for homicides, we'll there weren't any.

“We haven't done that since 1981 in Green Bay, so that's a terrific number for us as well,” said Smith.

Property crimes also saw significant reductions with burglary down 28 percent and theft down eight percent. Combined total crime in 2017 was down almost 10 percent when compared to 2016.

So one city in WI? Not even a very big city... So? Statewide crime has increased every single year since getting concealed carry.

 

[2aguy]

Two different America's?

One side see's children as targets to be hunted. The other side are Democrats.

The democrats refuse to allow gun safety education in schools.

The democrats don't want armed guards or teachers in schools....democrat gun free killing zones..

The democrats keep releasing violent gun criminals and other killers back onto our streets...

The democrats thrive on death....

Democrats want gun control.

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem.

Britain, which confiscated guns almost had 2.........dumb luck stopped them, not their gun control laws...you know this, you've seen the links to the stories, you are a lying troll.

 

[Brain357]

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

It shows us that violent crime is up with concealed carry. And Chicago has concealed carry, so hardly restrictive gun laws...

Meanwhile in New York city that actually has strong gun laws, crime is declining:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-crime-2017.html

No.....crime is not up with concealed carry you lying troll...you have been shown the truth and you continue to lie....

Chicago has been run by democrats for close to 100 years....and they follow the democrat policy of letting violent gun felons out of jail.....just like D.C., St. Louis and Baltimore....
And New York has a low crime rate right now because of Rudy Giuliani and his crime fighting techniques...which de blasio is throwing away...

Don’t Take the Wrong Lessons from NYC’s Murder Drop

New York City’s formerly high-crime neighborhoods have experienced a stunning degree of gentrification over the last 15 years, thanks to the proactive-policing-induced conquest of crime. It is that gentrification which is now helping fuel the ongoing crime drop. Urban hipsters are flocking to areas that once were the purview of drug dealers and pimps, trailing in their wake legitimate commerce and street life, which further attracts law-abiding activity and residents in a virtuous cycle of increasing public safety.

The degree of demographic change is startling.

In Brooklyn’s Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood, for example, the number of white residents rose 1,235 percent from 2000 to 2015, while the black population decreased by 17 percent, reports City Lab.

In Bushwick, Brooklyn, the number of whites rose 610 percent over that same decade and a half; the black population was down 22 percent. Central Harlem’s white population rose 846 percent; the black share dropped 10 percent. In 2000, whites were about three-quarters of the black population in Brownsville-Ocean Hill; by 2015, there were twice as many whites as blacks.

In 2000, whites were one-third of the black population in Crown Heights North and Prospect Heights; now they exceed the black population by 20,000. The Brooklyn Navy Yards has now been declared the next cool place to be by the tech industry. Business owners are moving their residences as well as their enterprises to the area.


This demographic transformation has enormous implications for crime.

A black New Yorker is 50 times more likely to commit a shooting than a white New Yorker, according to perpetrator identifications provided to the police by witnesses to, and victims of, those shootings.

Those victims are overwhelmingly minority themselves.

When the racial balance of a neighborhood changes radically, given those crime disparities, its violent-crime rate will as well. (This racial crime disparity reflects the breakdown of the black family and the high percentage of black males — upwards of 80 percent in some neighborhoods — being raised by single mothers.)

----

The high-crime areas of Baltimore and Chicago have not been gentrified. Baltimore is experiencing its highest per capita murder rate for the third year in a row. While Chicago’s homicide numbers are down somewhat this year, thanks to the aggressive use of shot-spotter technology, they remain at a level far higher than in the past decade.

Here you go:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Crime is up every single year in Wisconsin since getting carry...

Moron, I just posted link after link showing you are wrong.....from actual local sources......lying troll....

You post fake news. The facts:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

 

[2aguy]

No, it is not. Violent and gun crime did increase after Ferguson, but it leveled off and started to decline after that.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

Look at Wisconsin. Crime has increased every single year since they got concealed carry.

And more....you lying troll...

No homicides in Green Bay in 2017 contributes to 10 percent drop in crime

GREEN BAY, Wis. (WFRV) - The Green Bay Police Department reports crime in the city dropped significantly last year - compared to the year before. Local 5's Kris Schuller has more on the numbers and reaction from residents who feel very safe living in Northeast Wisconsin.

If there's trouble within the Wilder Park neighborhood - Neighborhood Association President Scott Vanidestine says he can contact police and they'll respond quickly.

“They know the neighborhoods, they know what's going on. They take care of us out there,” said Vanidestine.

And based on just released uniform crime report numbers for the city of Green Bay for 2017 - the police department does a good job of taking care of the entire community.

“A 9.77 percent decrease in total crime in Green Bay is just fantastic, that's a number any chief across the country would be happy to have for crime numbers in their city,” said Police Chief Andrew Smith.

For violent crime robbery was down nearly 10 percent, rape nearly four and as for homicides, we'll there weren't any.

“We haven't done that since 1981 in Green Bay, so that's a terrific number for us as well,” said Smith.

Property crimes also saw significant reductions with burglary down 28 percent and theft down eight percent. Combined total crime in 2017 was down almost 10 percent when compared to 2016.

So one city in WI? Not even a very big city... So? Statewide crime has increased every single year since getting concealed carry.

Green bay and Milwaukee asshat....Milwaukee is the driver of their murder rate......troll.

 

[Brain357]

Two different America's?

One side see's children as targets to be hunted. The other side are Democrats.

The democrats refuse to allow gun safety education in schools.

The democrats don't want armed guards or teachers in schools....democrat gun free killing zones..

The democrats keep releasing violent gun criminals and other killers back onto our streets...

The democrats thrive on death....

Democrats want gun control.

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem.

Britain, which confiscated guns almost had 2.........dumb luck stopped them, not their gun control laws...you know this, you've seen the links to the stories, you are a lying troll.

Two different America's?

One side see's children as targets to be hunted. The other side are Democrats.

The democrats refuse to allow gun safety education in schools.

The democrats don't want armed guards or teachers in schools....democrat gun free killing zones..

The democrats keep releasing violent gun criminals and other killers back onto our streets...

The democrats thrive on death....

Democrats want gun control.

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem.

Britain, which confiscated guns almost had 2.........dumb luck stopped them, not their gun control laws...you know this, you've seen the links to the stories, you are a lying troll.

Almost? Geez, wish we could say almost. We have many and luck stops many. Is that your best argument?

 

[Brain357]

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Wonderful. First off, this is only data up to 2016. Secondly, it's not explicit to gun crime, it's targeting violent crime. From your link:

An analysis by the the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that overall crime in the U.S. had dropped due to sustained declines in property-related offenses. Burglary, vehicle theft and larceny has declined for 14 straight years. But murder increases were driven by violence in many of the country's 30-largest cities.

"Chicago accounted for more than 20% of the nationwide murder increase in 2016, despite being home to less than 1% of the U.S. population," the center concluded.

So what they are telling us here is that the lions share of murders (not necessarily gun crime) comes from a place that has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Well.......if a city that has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country also leads the country in this murder increase, does that tell you more gun restrictions are working?????

Look at Wisconsin. Crime has increased every single year since they got concealed carry.

And more....you lying troll...

No homicides in Green Bay in 2017 contributes to 10 percent drop in crime

GREEN BAY, Wis. (WFRV) - The Green Bay Police Department reports crime in the city dropped significantly last year - compared to the year before. Local 5's Kris Schuller has more on the numbers and reaction from residents who feel very safe living in Northeast Wisconsin.

If there's trouble within the Wilder Park neighborhood - Neighborhood Association President Scott Vanidestine says he can contact police and they'll respond quickly.

“They know the neighborhoods, they know what's going on. They take care of us out there,” said Vanidestine.

And based on just released uniform crime report numbers for the city of Green Bay for 2017 - the police department does a good job of taking care of the entire community.

“A 9.77 percent decrease in total crime in Green Bay is just fantastic, that's a number any chief across the country would be happy to have for crime numbers in their city,” said Police Chief Andrew Smith.

For violent crime robbery was down nearly 10 percent, rape nearly four and as for homicides, we'll there weren't any.

“We haven't done that since 1981 in Green Bay, so that's a terrific number for us as well,” said Smith.

Property crimes also saw significant reductions with burglary down 28 percent and theft down eight percent. Combined total crime in 2017 was down almost 10 percent when compared to 2016.

So one city in WI? Not even a very big city... So? Statewide crime has increased every single year since getting concealed carry.

Green bay and Milwaukee asshat....Milwaukee is the driver of their murder rate......troll.

Crime has increased every single year since getting concealed carry in WI.