CDZ gun magazine bullet limits...they only effect law abiding gun owners so why do we need them.

[2aguy]

A person legally carrying a concealed weapon that you cannot see or have any way of perceiving poses no threat to you whatsoever.

As concealed carry becomes more common I might view everyone as a possible threat.

and you are wrong again....as more people have started to carry guns...our gun murder rate has gone down....by 49%...

in 2016 there are now 14.5 million people with concealed carry permits...and the number is higher because at least 11 states do not require a permit to open carry a gun......and others require no permit to carry a gun in either form of carry......

So again you are wrong.....gun murders went down as more people carry guns for self defense, the numbers show you have no clue....

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States by John R. Lott, John E Whitley, Rebekah C. Riley :: SSRN

Initially the increase in permits was slow, growing from roughly 2.7 million permit holders in 1999 to 4.6 million in 2007.

But the number of concealed handgun permits literally exploded during the Obama presidency.

For December 2011, the federal Government Accountability Office estimated that there were at least 8 million concealed handgun permits. By the June 2014, it was 11.1 million; in 2015, 12.8 million.

I believe almost all crime has gone down so how can you know there is a correlation between the two?

First.....the primary idea behind the anti gun movement is that more guns = more crime...that allowing even normal gun owners to have guns in their homes, and on their person will increase the gun murder and gun crime rate...you have made that point a well.......

What the 1990s to 2016 has shown...is that normal, law abiding people, having guns in their home and carrying guns for self defense, does not increase the gun murder rate or the gun crime rate.....and..it does not increase the over all violent crime rate.

That has been shown...do you agree?


Then...there is actual research that shows concealed carry lowers the violent crime rate.....I have linked to that before as well.....we can debate that...but the most important part that can't be forgotten....

200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s........and 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016....with over 14.5 million people carrying guns for self defense...and the gun murder rate went down......

Police are the main line of ending crime...in the 90s new crime techniques were used....and longer jail sentences put criminals in jail for a long time...that was the major reason the crime rate dropped.........and right now, because of the Ferguson effect, and attacks on police....the police are not making the arrests and the stops they used to do...for fear of being punished.......and you see an increase in the crime rate in democrat cities since last year....where before it was going down.....

 

[2aguy]

Why don't you try to find out how many legal CC permit holders all of a sudden go on shooting spree

People with concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007.

Wrong, there haven't been 29 mass shootings since 2007......that is a lie right in the title.....Mother Jones, an anti gun magazine....listed every mass shooting in the United States going back to 1982.....the definition they use is 3 dead, unrelated to criminal activity and in a public space........

If you want an accurate count...go there......

 

[2aguy]

Why don't you try to find out how many legal CC permit holders all of a sudden go on shooting spree

People with concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007.

I thought so..they include family murders...which are not counted as actual mass public shootings...that is how they get that number.....

You do realize that there are 14.5 million concealed carry permit holders...and that is the low end because a lot of states have Constitutional carry which means you don't have to have a permit to carry a gun for self defense.....

So...you take your link.....and subtact the non mass public shootings since they aren't mass public shootings.......and you get

14.5 million vs. less than 29 shootings where a concealed carry permit holder was involved.....

That puts a little perspective on it ..... don't you think.......

 

[2aguy]

Why don't you try to find out how many legal CC permit holders all of a sudden go on shooting spree

People with concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007.

So far...two family murders....those are not Mass Shootings as everyone understands Mass Shootings....so right there they have lied to you in the very title of their link.

And for reference.....just this year a man in India drugged his family, and killed all 14 of them with a knife.......that is why they do not include family murders as mass shootings......

 

[2aguy]

Why don't you try to find out how many legal CC permit holders all of a sudden go on shooting spree

People with concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007.

From your link...we are now up to 3 non mass shootings.....where the killer murdered his family or a girlfreind and her sons......

 

[2aguy]

A person legally carrying a concealed weapon that you cannot see or have any way of perceiving poses no threat to you whatsoever.

As concealed carry becomes more common I might view everyone as a possible threat.

and you are wrong again....as more people have started to carry guns...our gun murder rate has gone down....by 49%...

in 2016 there are now 14.5 million people with concealed carry permits...and the number is higher because at least 11 states do not require a permit to open carry a gun......and others require no permit to carry a gun in either form of carry......

So again you are wrong.....gun murders went down as more people carry guns for self defense, the numbers show you have no clue....

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States by John R. Lott, John E Whitley, Rebekah C. Riley :: SSRN

Initially the increase in permits was slow, growing from roughly 2.7 million permit holders in 1999 to 4.6 million in 2007.

But the number of concealed handgun permits literally exploded during the Obama presidency.

For December 2011, the federal Government Accountability Office estimated that there were at least 8 million concealed handgun permits. By the June 2014, it was 11.1 million; in 2015, 12.8 million.

I believe almost all crime has gone down so how can you know there is a correlation between the two?

It doesn't...because when we actually have muslim terrorists murder people at Fort Hood, or a muslim terrorist murdering 49 gay men in Orlando Florida...we are ordered to believe it had nothing to do with their religiion....and the father of the muslim terrorist who killed 49 gay men...gets to sit in a special place at a hilary clinton rally.....

And when a nut uses a gun...all gun owners are blamed....

you are wrong again...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why don't you try to find out how many legal CC permit holders all of a sudden go on shooting spree

People with concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007.

from your article

It's not necessarily the case that concealed carry permits somehow facilitated these crimes. Having a concealed carry permit doesn't make it any easier to bring, say, a shotgun into a government facility, like the Navy Yard shooter did.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why don't you try to find out how many legal CC permit holders all of a sudden go on shooting spree

People with concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007.

I thought so..they include family murders...which are not counted as actual mass public shootings...that is how they get that number.....

You do realize that there are 14.5 million concealed carry permit holders...and that is the low end because a lot of states have Constitutional carry which means you don't have to have a permit to carry a gun for self defense.....

So...you take your link.....and subtact the non mass public shootings since they aren't mass public shootings.......and you get

14.5 million vs. less than 29 shootings where a concealed carry permit holder was involved.....

That puts a little perspective on it ..... don't you think.......

don't for get the the 10 year time frame

so in any one year an average of less than 3 out of the more than 14 million CCW permit holders will go off the reservation

that's less than .0000214% of CCW permit holders

 

[alang1216]

First.....the primary idea behind the anti gun movement is that more guns = more crime...that allowing even normal gun owners to have guns in their homes, and on their person will increase the gun murder and gun crime rate...you have made that point a well.......

I would say that more homes with guns leads to more gun deaths, mainly by accident and suicide. I also think that more gun carrying will lead to a small number deaths from road rage, bar fights, police over reaction, etc.

Then...there is actual research that shows concealed carry lowers the violent crime rate.....I have linked to that before as well.....we can debate that...but the most important part that can't be forgotten....

200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s........and 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016....with over 14.5 million people carrying guns for self defense...and the gun murder rate went down.....

The numbers differ by survey but the number of households with gun has not risen and may in fact fallen over this time period since the number of guns per household has doubled.

What we don't know is whether the recent decline in crime is caused by an increase in the number of guns and carry permits or in spite of it.

Police are the main line of ending crime...in the 90s new crime techniques were used....and longer jail sentences put criminals in jail for a long time...that was the major reason the crime rate dropped.........and right now, because of the Ferguson effect, and attacks on police....the police are not making the arrests and the stops they used to do...for fear of being punished.......and you see an increase in the crime rate in democrat cities since last year....where before it was going down.....

You're blaming the Democrats I see but again you can't really show cause and effect. Are the "democrat cities" also those with the most poor or the most minorities? Maybe those are the real factors we should be talking about rather than cherry-picking our facts.

 

[alang1216]

Why don't you try to find out how many legal CC permit holders all of a sudden go on shooting spree

People with concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007.

from your article

It's not necessarily the case that concealed carry permits somehow facilitated these crimes. Having a concealed carry permit doesn't make it any easier to bring, say, a shotgun into a government facility, like the Navy Yard shooter did.

You suggested I do some research and I did, you should be happy. My point was that neither the actual number of instances nor the lack of established cause and effect seem to matter to the general public. Their perception is what counts. The percent you mentioned may be true for CC but it may be the same as the number of Muslims who commit terrorist acts and look at how the public perceives them.

 

[2aguy]

First.....the primary idea behind the anti gun movement is that more guns = more crime...that allowing even normal gun owners to have guns in their homes, and on their person will increase the gun murder and gun crime rate...you have made that point a well.......

I would say that more homes with guns leads to more gun deaths, mainly by accident and suicide. I also think that more gun carrying will lead to a small number deaths from road rage, bar fights, police over reaction, etc.

Then...there is actual research that shows concealed carry lowers the violent crime rate.....I have linked to that before as well.....we can debate that...but the most important part that can't be forgotten....

200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s........and 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016....with over 14.5 million people carrying guns for self defense...and the gun murder rate went down.....

The numbers differ by survey but the number of households with gun has not risen and may in fact fallen over this time period since the number of guns per household has doubled.

What we don't know is whether the recent decline in crime is caused by an increase in the number of guns and carry permits or in spite of it.

Police are the main line of ending crime...in the 90s new crime techniques were used....and longer jail sentences put criminals in jail for a long time...that was the major reason the crime rate dropped.........and right now, because of the Ferguson effect, and attacks on police....the police are not making the arrests and the stops they used to do...for fear of being punished.......and you see an increase in the crime rate in democrat cities since last year....where before it was going down.....

You're blaming the Democrats I see but again you can't really show cause and effect. Are the "democrat cities" also those with the most poor or the most minorities? Maybe those are the real factors we should be talking about rather than cherry-picking our facts.

Sorry...the actual facts don't back you up.......we went from 200 million guns in the 1990s up to 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016....and these are the stats...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....in a country with 74.2 million children in 2010...

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39

Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)
Total 2014... 48

Gun Suicide: 21,175
Non gun suicide: 19,974



http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505

 

[2aguy]

First.....the primary idea behind the anti gun movement is that more guns = more crime...that allowing even normal gun owners to have guns in their homes, and on their person will increase the gun murder and gun crime rate...you have made that point a well.......

I would say that more homes with guns leads to more gun deaths, mainly by accident and suicide. I also think that more gun carrying will lead to a small number deaths from road rage, bar fights, police over reaction, etc.

Then...there is actual research that shows concealed carry lowers the violent crime rate.....I have linked to that before as well.....we can debate that...but the most important part that can't be forgotten....

200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s........and 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016....with over 14.5 million people carrying guns for self defense...and the gun murder rate went down.....

The numbers differ by survey but the number of households with gun has not risen and may in fact fallen over this time period since the number of guns per household has doubled.

What we don't know is whether the recent decline in crime is caused by an increase in the number of guns and carry permits or in spite of it.

Police are the main line of ending crime...in the 90s new crime techniques were used....and longer jail sentences put criminals in jail for a long time...that was the major reason the crime rate dropped.........and right now, because of the Ferguson effect, and attacks on police....the police are not making the arrests and the stops they used to do...for fear of being punished.......and you see an increase in the crime rate in democrat cities since last year....where before it was going down.....

You're blaming the Democrats I see but again you can't really show cause and effect. Are the "democrat cities" also those with the most poor or the most minorities? Maybe those are the real factors we should be talking about rather than cherry-picking our facts.

And again...you are wrong....

U.S. suicide rates up, especially for women - CNN.com

In both 1999 and 2014, firearms were the most common method by which men took their own lives, although the proportion of all suicides in men that were firearm-related decreased from 61.7% to 55.4%. Among women, poisoning was the most common method in 2014 and accounted for 34.1% of suicides, down from 36% in 1999.

 

[2aguy]

First.....the primary idea behind the anti gun movement is that more guns = more crime...that allowing even normal gun owners to have guns in their homes, and on their person will increase the gun murder and gun crime rate...you have made that point a well.......

I would say that more homes with guns leads to more gun deaths, mainly by accident and suicide. I also think that more gun carrying will lead to a small number deaths from road rage, bar fights, police over reaction, etc.

Then...there is actual research that shows concealed carry lowers the violent crime rate.....I have linked to that before as well.....we can debate that...but the most important part that can't be forgotten....

200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s........and 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016....with over 14.5 million people carrying guns for self defense...and the gun murder rate went down.....

The numbers differ by survey but the number of households with gun has not risen and may in fact fallen over this time period since the number of guns per household has doubled.

What we don't know is whether the recent decline in crime is caused by an increase in the number of guns and carry permits or in spite of it.

Police are the main line of ending crime...in the 90s new crime techniques were used....and longer jail sentences put criminals in jail for a long time...that was the major reason the crime rate dropped.........and right now, because of the Ferguson effect, and attacks on police....the police are not making the arrests and the stops they used to do...for fear of being punished.......and you see an increase in the crime rate in democrat cities since last year....where before it was going down.....

You're blaming the Democrats I see but again you can't really show cause and effect. Are the "democrat cities" also those with the most poor or the most minorities? Maybe those are the real factors we should be talking about rather than cherry-picking our facts.

The myth that 200 million guns to 357,000,000 guns is only because the same people are buying more guns is just that...a myth......people are not admitting to anonymous pollsters that they have guns in their homes......


What we don't know is whether the recent decline in crime is caused by an increase in the number of guns and carry permits or in spite of it.

Sorry...the primary tenet of the anti gun activists is that more guns = more crime.......that is their basic belief and the basic motivator for everything they do.....and 23 years of increasing gun ownership...and decreasing gun murder, gun crime and violent crime shows they are wrong.....the actual facts show they are wrong....


And to the democrats........nothing they are doing is fixing the problem is it......?

 

[alang1216]

And again...you are wrong....

U.S. suicide rates up, especially for women - CNN.com

In both 1999 and 2014, firearms were the most common method by which men took their own lives, although the proportion of all suicides in men that were firearm-related decreased from 61.7% to 55.4%. Among women, poisoning was the most common method in 2014 and accounted for 34.1% of suicides, down from 36% in 1999.

Am I? So the number of households with firearms decreased and the number of firearm-related suicides decreased? Seems like there might be a correlation.

 

[alang1216]

people are not admitting to anonymous pollsters that they have guns in their homes......

And you know this how?

The myth that 200 million guns to 357,000,000 guns is only because the same people are buying more guns is just that...a myth......

And you know this how?

 

[2aguy]

And again...you are wrong....

U.S. suicide rates up, especially for women - CNN.com

In both 1999 and 2014, firearms were the most common method by which men took their own lives, although the proportion of all suicides in men that were firearm-related decreased from 61.7% to 55.4%. Among women, poisoning was the most common method in 2014 and accounted for 34.1% of suicides, down from 36% in 1999.

Am I? So the number of households with firearms decreased and the number of firearm-related suicides decreased? Seems like there might be a correlation.

The number of homes with guns has not decreased.......you can't go from 200 million guns in private hands to 357 million guns in private hands and have the number of homes with guns decrease..........that is just anti gun wishful thinking and lying.....,

 

[2aguy]

people are not admitting to anonymous pollsters that they have guns in their homes......

And you know this how?

The myth that 200 million guns to 357,000,000 guns is only because the same people are buying more guns is just that...a myth......

And you know this how?

I have read about the gun community for years now..they are not telling people that they on guns...especially after several newspapers printed the names of gun owners after Sandy Hook......and other polls show that the General Social Survey is wrong.......considering the GSS is run by an anti gunner who states he wants his research to help push more gun control.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why don't you try to find out how many legal CC permit holders all of a sudden go on shooting spree

People with concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007.

from your article

It's not necessarily the case that concealed carry permits somehow facilitated these crimes. Having a concealed carry permit doesn't make it any easier to bring, say, a shotgun into a government facility, like the Navy Yard shooter did.

You suggested I do some research and I did, you should be happy. My point was that neither the actual number of instances nor the lack of established cause and effect seem to matter to the general public. Their perception is what counts. The percent you mentioned may be true for CC but it may be the same as the number of Muslims who commit terrorist acts and look at how the public perceives them.

I won't indulge you in your irrelevant comparison to Muslims.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And again...you are wrong....

U.S. suicide rates up, especially for women - CNN.com

In both 1999 and 2014, firearms were the most common method by which men took their own lives, although the proportion of all suicides in men that were firearm-related decreased from 61.7% to 55.4%. Among women, poisoning was the most common method in 2014 and accounted for 34.1% of suicides, down from 36% in 1999.

Am I? So the number of households with firearms decreased and the number of firearm-related suicides decreased? Seems like there might be a correlation.

The percentage can decrease while the overall number of households with guns increases
For example

50% of 50 million is 25 million
30% of 125 million is 37.5 million

So even though the percentage of households with gun owners decreased the actual number of gun owners has increased

 

[2aguy]

And again...you are wrong....

U.S. suicide rates up, especially for women - CNN.com

In both 1999 and 2014, firearms were the most common method by which men took their own lives, although the proportion of all suicides in men that were firearm-related decreased from 61.7% to 55.4%. Among women, poisoning was the most common method in 2014 and accounted for 34.1% of suicides, down from 36% in 1999.

Am I? So the number of households with firearms decreased and the number of firearm-related suicides decreased? Seems like there might be a correlation.

The percentage can decrease while the overall number of households with guns increases
For example

50% of 50 million is 25 million
30% of 125 million is 37.5 million

So even though the percentage of households with gun owners decreased the actual number of gun owners has increased

I wouldn't even grant them that fewer homes have guns........they have one biased guy saying it has dropped while others say it has stayed the same....while millions of guns have been purchased by Americans.......and fewer gun owners are willing to tell anonymous pollsters they have guns in their homes......