Gun owner stops violent beating....at store where anti gunners have tried to ban guns...

[2aguy]

I have compared two cities in Florida of similar size for you before, one with a democrat mayor and one with a republican. That democrat city has lower crime. Your claims of the mayor are false.

24 out of 25 of the most violent cities in the U.S. are controlled by democrats...not a coincidence.....

They are the big cities and like 99.9 percent of big cities have a democrat mayor. So no it isn't a coincidence. I'm sure 24 out of 25 of the safest big cities are also democrat.

Well...you look up those mayors.....I looked up the most violent....

 

[Brain357]

Sorry brain...if guns caused crime then the whole state would experience more gun crime since concealed carry is for the whole state, not just the big city...doesn't happen.....poverty and gangs the big mover of crime in the cities and allowing people to carry guns reduces the crime rate......actual research shows this.....

I'm not claiming that at all. I am saying ownership does not effect crime rates. Concealed carry does not effect crime rates.

Yes it does brain....actual research...18 papers that I have listed show that it does....write the authors of those papers....ask them........they actually study the topic across the whole country over years of concealed carry activity....and 18 show it lowers crime rates.....

Look at Wisconsin and Chicago. Not going so well. Pro gun papers don't really prove anything. They play with the number to get the answers they want.

 

[2aguy]

Irvine California....#1 safest city...Republican mayor.....

Safe Cities In America - Business Insider

 

[2aguy]

Scottsdale, Arizona....republican.....

 

[Brain357]

I have compared two cities in Florida of similar size for you before, one with a democrat mayor and one with a republican. That democrat city has lower crime. Your claims of the mayor are false.

24 out of 25 of the most violent cities in the U.S. are controlled by democrats...not a coincidence.....

They are the big cities and like 99.9 percent of big cities have a democrat mayor. So no it isn't a coincidence. I'm sure 24 out of 25 of the safest big cities are also democrat.

Well...you look up those mayors.....I looked up the most violent....

Irvine California....#1 safest city...Republican mayor.....

Safe Cities In America - Business Insider

And not even close to being one of the biggest. 236,000 population?

 

[2aguy]

Chandler, Arizona...repbulican...

So far 3 out of the 20 safest cities in America....Republican mayors....

24 0f 25 most dangerous cities...deomcrat mayors.....

I have compared two cities in Florida of similar size for you before, one with a democrat mayor and one with a republican. That democrat city has lower crime. Your claims of the mayor are false.

24 out of 25 of the most violent cities in the U.S. are controlled by democrats...not a coincidence.....

They are the big cities and like 99.9 percent of big cities have a democrat mayor. So no it isn't a coincidence. I'm sure 24 out of 25 of the safest big cities are also democrat.

Well...you look up those mayors.....I looked up the most violent....

Irvine California....#1 safest city...Republican mayor.....

Safe Cities In America - Business Insider

And not even close to being one of the biggest. 236,000 population?

Move the goal post Brain.......

 

[2aguy]

Chula Vista, California....Republican....

4 out of 20

 

[2aguy]

Virginia Beach...republican....

pop...over 430,000

 

[2aguy]

I have to stop....digging out their political parties is not easy....

 

[Brain357]

I have to stop....digging out their political parties is not easy....

That I can agree with.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Wisconsin got right to carry and violent crime went up. Crime is not effected by gun ownership. More ownership does lead to more armed criminals however.

Correlation does not equal causation.

In 2005 our cities crime rate went through the roof. Had we passed gun laws that year the anti-gunners would have jumped all over it. Turns out, Hurricane Katrina uprooted all of the crime out of New Orleans and pushed it westward down I-10.

We could have easily passed gun legislation that year, yet the increase in crime had nothing to do with the gun law passed.

So just because a gun law passed and crime went up doesn't mean the two are related at all. In fact, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it is.

 

[Brain357]

Wisconsin got right to carry and violent crime went up. Crime is not effected by gun ownership. More ownership does lead to more armed criminals however.

Correlation does not equal causation.

In 2005 our cities crime rate went through the roof. Had we passed gun laws that year the anti-gunners would have jumped all over it. Turns out, Hurricane Katrina uprooted all of the crime out of New Orleans and pushed it westward down I-10.

We could have easily passed gun legislation that year, yet the increase in crime had nothing to do with the gun law passed.

Yes I don't think gun ownership effects crime.

 

[airplanemechanic]

That's cute. That's not proof. That's your unsubstantiated opinion.

Where is your proof? Raw evidence?

 

[Brain357]

That's cute. That's not proof. That's your unsubstantiated opinion.

Where is your proof? Raw evidence?

We have by far the most guns per capita of any country yet we don't have the lowest crime rates? Wisconsin gets concealed carry and crime goes up? What sort of proof are you looking for? There certainly is no proof that it does effect crime rates.

 

[airplanemechanic]

I'm looking for proof of what you claim. Do you not understand "correlation does not equal causation?" Do you not get that?

 

[Brain357]

I'm looking for proof of what you claim. Do you not understand "correlation does not equal causation?" Do you not get that?

Someone would have to prove that gun ownership does effect crime rates. I do not have to prove it does not.

 

[airplanemechanic]

No, you're making the claim, You back it up. It's on you. Prove that gun ownership does not effect crime rates.

Don't weasel out now.

 

[2aguy]

I'm looking for proof of what you claim. Do you not understand "correlation does not equal causation?" Do you not get that?

Someone would have to prove that gun ownership does effect crime rates. I do not have to prove it does not.

I posted a list of 18 studies that disagree with you Brain....actual research by researchers in economics and criminology.....over a long period of time......studying a long period of time.......

 

[2aguy]

Here you go...another list of studies that disagrees with you brain....


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

 

[2aguy]

Here you go brain....one those studies...

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/tideman.pdf

DOES THE RIGHT TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUNS DETER COUNTABLE CRIMES? ONLY A COUNT ANALYSIS CAN SAY*

and T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN Virginia Polytechnic

Institute and State University

FLORENZ PLASSMANN State University of New York at Binghamton



Abstract

An analysis of the effects of right-to-carry laws on crime requires particular dis- tributional and structural considerations. First, because of the count nature of crime data and the low number of expected instances per observation in the most appropriate data, least-squares methods yield unreliable estimates. Second, use of a single dummy variable as a measure of the nationwide effect of right-to-carry laws is likely to introduce geographical and intertemporal aggregation biases into the analysis. In this paper, we use a generalized Poisson process to examine the geographical and dynamic effects of right-to-carry laws on reported homicides, rapes, and robberies. We find that the effects of such laws vary across crime categories, U.S. states, and time and that such laws appear to have statistically significant deterrent effects on the numbers of reported murders, rapes, and robberies.