Gunny's Thread on Religion

[Kalam]

The difference is that in Islam you are supposed to take the most recent word of Allah as your orders on how to live and conduct yourself.

This is a misconception.

USMB - post1196239

The final chapter is the ONLY chapter that does not start out saying "In the name of Allah the gracious and merciful" but instead goes on to talk about slaughtering all those who oppose Islam and that anyone who will not convert should be either killed or will be second class citizens in what would become Islam's time of peace and love.

This is supposed to be the last surah chronologically:

an-Nasr (110)

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

(&#1633 When there comes the help of Allah and the victory,

(&#1634 And you see men entering the religion of Allah in companies,

(&#1635 Then celebrate the praise of your Lord, and ask His forgiveness; surely He is oft-returning.​

 

[Ceasaro]

Kalam, our favorite fake muslim, likes to copy and paste non-sensical gibberish.
Dude. Your surah doesn't even make any sense. WAKE UP!!!!
Is that victory after jihad?

 

[JBeukema]

Kalam's not really a muslim...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/81617-kalam-questions.html

 

[Kalam]

Kalam's not really a muslim...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/81617-kalam-questions.html

Having heterodox beliefs does not make me a non-Muslim. A Muslim is someone who accepts the basic creed of Islam:

There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God.

I accept this, therefore I am a Muslim. The only people who disagree are radicals and tools like skeezer who are disappointed that I don't want to kill them.

 

[Kalam]

Kalam, our favorite fake muslim, likes to copy and paste non-sensical gibberish.
Dude. Your surah doesn't even make any sense. WAKE UP!!!!
Is that victory after jihad?

Perhaps if you bothered reading the post I was responding to, you'd appear to be less of a dithering idiot.

 

[Ceasaro]

Ok, so that passage makes no sense until I read another part. Nice logic. Next you're going to ask me to read the whole fucking book for anything to make sense.
If I'm a dithering idiot, what's the arabic word(s) for "fake muslim", which would make you an expert in idiots.

 

[JBeukema]

You said you do not believe in the personal god of Muhammed. Therefore you do not believe in Allah as defined in the Koran. Hence, you are not Muslim.

 

[Kalam]

You said you do not believe in the personal god of Muhammed. Therefore you do not believe in Allah as defined in the Koran. Hence, you are not Muslim.

I said no such thing. The precise nature of the god of Muhammad is unknowable and the Qur'an was written in metaphors and allegories. I explained that. My religious beliefs are 100% congruous with the words of the Qur'an.

 

[Kalam]

If I'm a dithering idiot, what's the arabic word(s) for "fake muslim", which would make you an expert in idiots.

If you suspect someone of being a fake Muslim, tell them "ana ahmaq."

 

[JBeukema]

If I'm a dithering idiot, what's the arabic word(s) for "fake muslim", which would make you an expert in idiots.

If you suspect someone of being a fake Muslim, tell them "ana ahmaq."

What does that actually mean?

You have in the past expressed deistic beliefs that contradict the Qu'ranic (indeed, Abrahamic) description of a personal god that meddles with the universe

 

[Kalam]

What does that actually mean?

It's something that skeezer should tell people who he believes are fake Muslims.

You have in the past expressed deistic beliefs that contradict the Qu'ranic (indeed, Abrahamic) description of a personal god that meddles with the universe

My conception of God may be at odds with some traditional Abrahamic and Islamic conceptions, but it is not at odds with the Qur'an.

 

[JBeukema]

What does that actually mean?

It's something that skeezer should tell people who he believes are fake Muslims.

Great non-answer

You have in the past expressed deistic beliefs that contradict the Qu'ranic (indeed, Abrahamic) description of a personal god that meddles with the universe

My conception of God may be at odds with some traditional Abrahamic and Islamic conceptions, but it is not at odds with the Qur'an.

The Qu
'ran rests on a personal god meddling with the universe to speak to a prophet, then ordering that prophet to spread the word and yadayadayada. Like the Torah, it is founded on racism, murder, warfare, and an evil personal god. If you still adhere to your deistic beliefs, then you must reject the Qu'ran as a 'holy' book. You did this before, when you implied that it is bvaluable only insomuch as one draws widsom from it- no differnt than aesop's fables, basically. Are you recanting your claims from our earlier discussion?

 

[Kalam]

Great non-answer

Text and Web - Google Translate

أنا أحمق

Ana ahmaq

The Qu'ran rests on a personal god meddling with the universe to speak to a prophet, then ordering that prophet to spread the word and yadayadayada. Like the Torah, it is founded on racism, murder, warfare, and an evil personal god.

Do not assume that the Qur'an is ethically similar to the Torah. There is no racism whatsoever in the Qur'an; homicide and warfare are permitted only in response to hostility as they should be.

If you still adhere to your deistic beliefs, then you must reject the Qu'ran as a 'holy' book. You did this before, when you implied that it is bvaluable only insomuch as one draws widsom from it- no differnt than aesop's fables, basically. Are you recanting your claims from our earlier discussion?

The Qur'an is a source of guidance in most areas of public and private life. It is more meaningful and thoughtful than a collection of didactic stories, and is holy in the sense that it was inspired by its author's comprehension of the nature of God.

 

[Wingit]

I have to reply to what you had in the cartoons. I'm a pretty moderate person, but really can't see where abortion, gay rights, some art, debasing christian morals, etc. have improved the country. By removing our religious roots we have also managed to remove most of the boundries of decency. There was probably a comfortable compromise but as seems to be man's pattern, now just about anything is ok. I think that is what happened to many other societies and cultures in history. We have lost touch with what is right and what makes us better people.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

You said you do not believe in the personal god of Muhammed. Therefore you do not believe in Allah as defined in the Koran. Hence, you are not Muslim.

I said no such thing. The precise nature of the god of Muhammad is unknowable and the Qur'an was written in metaphors and allegories. I explained that. My religious beliefs are 100% congruous with the words of the Qur'an.

Quran is mubeen i.e. which makes things clear and manifest

"A. L. R. These are the Ayats of Revelation,- of a Qur'an that makes things clear (qur-anin mubeenin). " [15:1]

"We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear: (qur-anun mubeenun)" [36:69]

Quran is noor-e-mubeen i.e. a light which makes things clear and manifest

" O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest (nooran mubeenan)" [4:174]

Quran is kitaab-e-mubeen i.e. a book which makes things clear and manifest

" O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book, -(kitabun mubeenun) "[5:15]

"A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book. (alkitabi almubeenu)" [12:1]

"These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [26:2]

Is the Quran plain, clear, manifest and perspicous?

 

[JBeukema]

Great non-answer

Text and Web - Google Translate

أنا أحمق

Ana ahmaq

Fool?

Do not assume that the Qur'an is ethically similar to the Torah

Either it is or it is false. Pure and simple. No book that contradicts the word or law of god can be from god. Therefore, it is of the deceiver.

Wither it is ethically the same as the Torah, or it is of Satan. the only third option is that both are false.

The Qur'an is a source of guidance in most areas of public and private life. It is more meaningful and thoughtful than a collection of didactic stories, and is holy in the sense that it was inspired by its author's comprehension of the nature of God.

Not the word of god, given to Muhammad by the archangel (was it Michael or Gabriel?) and passed to his disciples?

You reject the very foundation of the Koran, the very claim it makes to justify itself. Koranically, you are a deceiver- you are Satan, one of his servants, or deceived thereby. You are the very worst breed of Kafir.

 

[JBeukema]

, debasing christian morals,

christians have no morals

 

[JBeukema]

God cannot change
his law cannot change

Malachi 3:6
James 1:17
1 Samual 15:29
Numbers 23:19

Ezekiel24:14

 

[JBeukema]

God cannot change
his law cannot change

Malachi 3:6
James 1:17
1 Samual 15:29
Numbers 23:19

Ezekiel24:14

Unless God is confused

Exodus 32:10-14

 

[Kalam]

Great non-answer

Text and Web - Google Translate

أنا أحمق

Ana ahmaq

Fool?

That is what ahmaq means.

Do not assume that the Qur'an is ethically similar to the Torah

Either it is or it is false. Pure and simple. No book that contradicts the word or law of god can be from god. Therefore, it is of the deceiver.

I'm not a Jew.

Not the word of god, given to Muhammad by the archangel (was it Michael or Gabriel?) and passed to his disciples?

That was an allegory.

You reject the very foundation of the Koran, the very claim it makes to justify itself. Koranically, you are a deceiver- you are Satan, one of his servants, or deceived thereby. You are the very worst breed of Kafir.

Don't be a fool, JB. I'm not a knee-jerk theist that you can manipulate through your thinly veiled attempts at trolling. Of course, you're already aware of this. Why you're suddenly choosing to act as if I'm a dogma junkie I'm not sure. Pick your battles more wisely.