Gunny's Thread on Religion

[AllieBaba]

Great non-answer

Text and Web - Google Translate

أنا أحمق

Ana ahmaq

The Qu'ran rests on a personal god meddling with the universe to speak to a prophet, then ordering that prophet to spread the word and yadayadayada. Like the Torah, it is founded on racism, murder, warfare, and an evil personal god.

Do not assume that the Qur'an is ethically similar to the Torah. There is no racism whatsoever in the Qur'an; homicide and warfare are permitted only in response to hostility as they should be.

If you still adhere to your deistic beliefs, then you must reject the Qu'ran as a 'holy' book. You did this before, when you implied that it is bvaluable only insomuch as one draws widsom from it- no differnt than aesop's fables, basically. Are you recanting your claims from our earlier discussion?

The Qur'an is a source of guidance in most areas of public and private life. It is more meaningful and thoughtful than a collection of didactic stories, and is holy in the sense that it was inspired by its author's comprehension of the nature of God.

Except, of course, in the case of non-believers. Then it's not considered violence or even a crime to murder and rape them if they choose not to convert and grovel at the feet of the mighty conquerors.

 

[JBeukema]

I'm not a Jew.

The Quran rests on the Torah benig correct. It claims to be from the same deity.

That was an allegory.

That's not what it says. Given your assumption, then nothing can be assumed to mean in the Qu'ran what it claims to say.

Don't be a fool, JB. I'm not a knee-jerk theist that you can manipulate through your thinly veiled attempts at trolling

It's not trolling. it's reason, You are not a muslim. In rejecting Muslim delusions, you are4 wise. INn failing to follow the reasoning, you are naive.

You are no muslim, for you reject the Qu'ran's claims regarding its nature.

 

[Kalam]

Except, of course, in the case of non-believers. Then it's not considered violence or even a crime to murder

Verse?

and rape

Verse?

them if they choose not to convert and grovel at the feet of the mighty conquerors.

If that were the case, the Qur'an would be ethically similar to the Torah. Thanks for playing, Babble.

 

[Kalam]

The Quran rests on the Torah benig correct. It claims to be from the same deity.

It also rests on the Torah being corrupt and unfit.

That's not what it says. Given your assumption, then nothing can be assumed to mean in the Qu'ran what it claims to say.

It can be assumed that the stories in the Qur'an (those of Noah, Moses, the revelation, etc.) are allegories. Direct commandments can be taken at face value.

It's not trolling. it's reason, You are not a muslim. In rejecting Muslim delusions, you are4 wise. INn failing to follow the reasoning, you are naive.

You are no muslim, for you reject the Qu'ran's claims regarding its nature.

I interpret them non-traditionally. I am certainly heterodox. In the opinion of many, I am a heretic. But I am a Muslim regardless of whether or not I am treated as such according to the narrow definitions of foolish literalists. Mu'tazili Islam was endorsed by the early caliphate and it was not until later that foolishness began to take hold and become mainstream.

Mu'tazili - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It isn't as if what I'm doing is unprecedented. It is common within Islam, because the Qur'an is a text that clearly requires some degree of interpretation. Again, do not make the mistake of assuming that Islam is similar to Judaism and Christianity, especially as far as scriptural literalism is concerned.

Esoteric interpretation of the Qur'an - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JBeukema]

The Quran rests on the Torah benig correct. It claims to be from the same deity.

It also rests on the Torah being corrupt and unfit.

Meaning that Gods is either not all-powerful or not all-loving- or both. Also meaning that the Qu'ran cannot be trusted, as it, too can be corrupted, and it was not written by the prophet himself, nor were there any in the cave to witness the word.

It can be assumed that the stories in the Qur'an (those of Noah, Moses, the revelation, etc.) are allegories. Direct commandments can be taken at face value.

Merely because it fits your purpose? The word of god does not say that it is anything but truth.

I interpret them non-traditionally. I am certainly heterodox.

You dop not interpret them at all, so much as you incorporate them into your own non-islamic views

It isn't as if what I'm doing is unprecedented.

Appeal to tradition, following appeal to a flase (worldly) 'authority'[

It is common within Islam, because the Qur'an is a text that clearly requires some degree of interpretation

If god is not clear, then he is not willing that all should understand or that his will be preserved.

. Again, do not make the mistake of assuming that Islam is similar to Judaism and Christianity, especially as far as scriptural literalism is concerned.

It is nothing more than another jewish cult, just like christianity. All grew out of the same thing and share the same poisonous roots.

 

[Kalam]

Meaning that Gods is either not all-powerful or not all-loving- or both.

So?

Also meaning that the Qu'ran cannot be trusted, as it, too can be corrupted, and it was not written by the prophet himself, nor were there any in the cave to witness the word.

We have already discussed the scriptural integrity of the Qur'an and have established that it has not, and in all likelihood cannot, be altered.

Merely because it fits your purpose? The word of god does not say that it is anything but truth.

And? Shall I refer you to the same passage again?

You dop not interpret them at all, so much as you incorporate them into your own non-islamic views

You have it backwards. I have incorporated philosophy that was not necessarily Islamic into my own Islamic views.

Appeal to tradition, following appeal to a flase (worldly) 'authority'

Meaningless.

If god is not clear, then he is not willing that all should understand or that his will be preserved.

Yet we do and it has.

It is nothing more than another jewish cult, just like christianity. All grew out of the same thing and share the same poisonous roots.

That is categorically false.

 

[AllieBaba]

Except, of course, in the case of non-believers. Then it's not considered violence or even a crime to murder

Verse?

and rape

Verse?

them if they choose not to convert and grovel at the feet of the mighty conquerors.

If that were the case, the Qur'an would be ethically similar to the Torah. Thanks for playing, Babble.

Except that's not the argument. I wasn't saying it wasn't ethically similar to the Torah. I said you were being dishonest when you said that murder and violence are spoken against in the Koran, as if that meant the Koran opposes the butchery of innocents.

The butchery, rape and violence against non-believers isn't considered to be murder or violence by the peace-loving followers of Islam.

Thanks for playing, asshole.

 

[Kalam]

Except that's not the argument. I wasn't saying it wasn't ethically similar to the Torah. I said you were being dishonest when you said that murder and violence are spoken against in the Koran, as if that meant the Koran opposes the butchery of innocents.

The butchery, rape and violence against non-believers isn't considered to be murder or violence by the peace-loving followers of Islam.

Thanks for playing, asshole.

From now on, Babble, you can assume that I won't waste my time responding to your posts unless you corroborate your claims with actual evidence. As usual, you have failed to do so. Buh-bye.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

[q
The Qur'an is a source of guidance in most areas of public and private life. It is more meaningful and thoughtful than a collection of didactic stories, and is holy in the sense that it was inspired by its author's comprehension of the nature of God.

Who wrote the Quran in your opinion?

 

[mattskramer]

Who wrote the Quran in your opinion?

Islamic belief holds that the angel Gabriel spoke the Qur'an to the prophet Muhhamad and was ordered to recite (because he could not read or write). Muhammad later taught the Qur'an to the followers he gained shortly thereafter, who wrote these teachings on anything they could find, such as bark or leaves, or paper if available. After Muhammad's death, Abu Bakr compiled these teachings to form the original Qur'an which was copied and spread by the Muslims.

 

[DV8]

Why couldn't Allah give Muhammed the ability to suddenly write?

 

[mattskramer]

Why couldn't Allah give Muhammed the ability to suddenly write?

Why did God choose Moses? Why did God have Moses deliver the 10 Commandments down the mountain? Couldn't God have had the tablets float down? So many questions. Why did God create the duck-billed platypus?

 

[Kalam]

[q
The Qur'an is a source of guidance in most areas of public and private life. It is more meaningful and thoughtful than a collection of didactic stories, and is holy in the sense that it was inspired by its author's comprehension of the nature of God.

Who wrote the Quran in your opinion?

Muhammad via scribes.

 

[Kalam]

Why couldn't Allah give Muhammed the ability to suddenly write?

God does not interfere.

 

[Samyaza]

Why couldn't Allah give Muhammed the ability to suddenly write?

God does not interfere.

You just contradicted yourself. You said God interfered- that he interacted with the universe to give his word to his prophets. You can't have it both ways.Which is it?

 

[Kalam]

Why couldn't Allah give Muhammed the ability to suddenly write?

God does not interfere.

You just contradicted yourself. You said God interfered- that he interacted with the universe to give his word to his prophets. You can't have it both ways.Which is it?

I said that? Where?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

hahahaha

 

[Ceasaro]

Kalam ana ahmaq.

Samy, don't worry about our favorite fake muslim kalam, he doesn't know shit about islam.

 

[Kalam]

Kalam ana ahmaq.

نعم

 

[Kalam]

he doesn't know shit about islam.

Yes, it isn't as if I devote a portion of every day to studying the Qur'an and Islamic religious texts.