CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[ChrisL]

Well folks, I'm sure your political & cultural opponents are very pleased with your responses.

I just don't see what it is that you want. I'm sure you aren't the only person who wants to ban violence. Lol. It's just not very realistic. You can ban one thing, but people can still get it, and they will if they want to. Also, there will be other things that take the place. You have to teach your kids and instill values and morals in them. That is another problem. Parents who want to have kids but don't really want to do any parenting. Because of advancements in technology, we have become much more lazy and dependent on gadgets to take care of our needs. There is really not much you can do to change these things though. It is called "progress."

For the tenth time, I did not say "ban" or "law".

Okay, never mind.
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I can raise my kids right. You can raise your kids right. You cannot make other people raise their kids right though! People are stubborn and ignorant fuckers! You can't be this new at this life!

 

[ChrisL]

Goodness, some children are raised by abusive parents who torture them, sexually molest them, etc. There are some really TERRIBLE people in the world, and that is all you really need to understand.

 

[2aguy]

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

This is what I'm talking about. As long as this is the debate, those who are enabling our decaying culture continue to win. Sometimes a smart overall strategy has to include a little capitulation here and there.
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The only side giving up little bits of freedom are the pro 2nd Amendment side....every time.....name the last time the anti gun extremists gave up anything.....

 

[2aguy]

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

This is what I'm talking about. As long as this is the debate, those who are enabling our decaying culture continue to win. Sometimes a smart overall strategy has to include a little capitulation here and there.
.

Capitulate what?

I pointed it out in the OP: "If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners."

If your response is "no, we can't give an inch", that's my point.
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I've asked you twice now, what should be given? What new law would have prevented Parkland?

None. Nothing could have prevented Parkland. You win. Never mind.
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Wrong.....getting rid of the democrat gun free school zone would have prevented Parkland......since we know from actual mass shooters that they choose gun free zones to target.........so you are wrong...the anti gunners who fight to keep democrat gun free zones are the ones getting children targeted by these killers.

 

[2aguy]

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

This is what I'm talking about. As long as this is the debate, those who are enabling our decaying culture continue to win. Sometimes a smart overall strategy has to include a little capitulation here and there.
.

Capitulate what?

I pointed it out in the OP: "If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners."

If your response is "no, we can't give an inch", that's my point.
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I've asked you twice now, what should be given? What new law would have prevented Parkland?

Notice how they refuse to respond now? After putting up the old favorites....registration, background checks, magazine bans.....and having people actually point out how dumb those ideas are and how they won't work...they now refuse to even respond ...

 

[2aguy]

How many people here are going to completely miss my point?

It ain't that complicated.

You point is give a inch and then go after industries that promote violence but the left does not want a inch and want the entire mile while ignoring the issues you point to!

We are not going to be Sweden and ban violence from life!

Well, that's your choice, your priority.

I'm more interested in dealing with the root cause of this.

And by the way, both can be done at the same time.
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The root cause of the majority of gun murder in this country, the gun violence in this country, and now Britain as well......are single teenage mothers raising children on welfare without fathers......this is now happening in Britain and they too are seeing increases in gun crime and violence...

How do you propose we deal with single teenage mothers raising children without fathers.....? Solve that, and you reduce violence and crime...

 

[JoeB131]

And once again, we get a False Premise from Mac... which I gleefully get to take apart.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

Um, no. Not really. Every generation thinks the culture is decaying and sick. I grew up in the 1960's, and my parents thought that the hippies were bringing the world to an end.

We aren't producing any more or less psychopaths than we ever have. What is happening is that the psychopaths have access to more devastating weaponry now than they did back in the 1960's.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Well, it's a good thing you aren't getting your way then. The real elephant in the room is that the gun industry NEEDS fear to sell product.

Much like the alcoholic beverage industry realizes that drunks are their primary market, the gun industry realizes that their primary market is not the sensible gun owner who bought a gun in 1995 and stuck it in the back of his closet and maybe fires it at a range once a year. They know that their market is that 3% of the population that own 50% of the guns, who want more guns because they are scared of criminals and the government.

And when you are marketing to that kind of person, you shouldn't be all that surprised when a few of them do something crazy. So they market bump stocks and semi-automatics and armor-piercing bullets that most sensible gun owners wouldn't need and won't want.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Yawn. here's the thing. In Japan, they consume 20% more violent video games than we do, they watch ultra violent manga cartoons with women being raped by tentacle monsters and people getting blown up, and only 1% of the population is Christians.

Yet they have a whopping 11 gun homicides a year. It's considered a bit of a scandal if cops even take their guns out of the holsters.

Societal divisions? When I grew up in Chicago, you didn't go west of Western Avenue in Chicago if you were black, and you didn't go east of it if you were white. That's societal division.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.

Well, you are right, the gun owners are being "played", but they want to be played. They enjoy living in the fantasy world where there's a bad guy around every corner ready to do awful things to them, so they need more guns. So you have Nancy Lanza arming herself like the Zombies are coming, only to be killed by her own son (who to be fair, kind of looked like a Zombie)

The real question is, why do the rest of us tolerate it, when it spills over to us.

 

[ChrisL]

And once again, we get a False Premise from Mac... which I gleefully get to take apart.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

Um, no. Not really. Every generation thinks the culture is decaying and sick. I grew up in the 1960's, and my parents thought that the hippies were bringing the world to an end.

We aren't producing any more or less psychopaths than we ever have. What is happening is that the psychopaths have access to more devastating weaponry now than they did back in the 1960's.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Well, it's a good thing you aren't getting your way then. The real elephant in the room is that the gun industry NEEDS fear to sell product.

Much like the alcoholic beverage industry realizes that drunks are their primary market, the gun industry realizes that their primary market is not the sensible gun owner who bought a gun in 1995 and stuck it in the back of his closet and maybe fires it at a range once a year. They know that their market is that 3% of the population that own 50% of the guns, who want more guns because they are scared of criminals and the government.

And when you are marketing to that kind of person, you shouldn't be all that surprised when a few of them do something crazy. So they market bump stocks and semi-automatics and armor-piercing bullets that most sensible gun owners wouldn't need and won't want.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Yawn. here's the thing. In Japan, they consume 20% more violent video games than we do, they watch ultra violent manga cartoons with women being raped by tentacle monsters and people getting blown up, and only 1% of the population is Christians.

Yet they have a whopping 11 gun homicides a year. It's considered a bit of a scandal if cops even take their guns out of the holsters.

Societal divisions? When I grew up in Chicago, you didn't go west of Western Avenue in Chicago if you were black, and you didn't go east of it if you were white. That's societal division.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.

Well, you are right, the gun owners are being "played", but they want to be played. They enjoy living in the fantasy world where there's a bad guy around every corner ready to do awful things to them, so they need more guns. So you have Nancy Lanza arming herself like the Zombies are coming, only to be killed by her own son (who to be fair, kind of looked like a Zombie)

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The real question is, why do the rest of us tolerate it, when it spills over to us.

I think you libs need to decide, is there or isn't there a "bad guy" around every corner because the way you talk, you would think just about every American is a "bad guy."

 

[ChrisL]

So is gun violence so prevalent that we are all unsafe and should therefore give up our guns? Or is it that we are so safe that we are just paranoid that we feel we may need to have a gun some day? Hmm. Yet another liberal dilemma.

 

[JoeB131]

It's not as if violence in society is something new. I think that in the past, there was much more of it actually. If you were to look at society as a whole now as compared to ancient times, I think you would find that we have changed and grown a LOT when it comes to violence and violent behaviors, but humans are far from being perfect and there are always going to be crazy people and criminals among us, and the more people you have, the more of those kinds of people you have as well.

Okay, in ancient times, watching people murder each other with swords and being fed to wild animals was considered family entertainment.

What we have now is people who have no business owning military grade weaponry having access to it.

And when an Adam Lanza or a Nikolas Cruz shoots up a lot of people, we act all surprised when this happens.

 

[ChrisL]

Should only the racist hateful cops who just like to kill unarmed black men be armed??

 

[ChrisL]

It's not as if violence in society is something new. I think that in the past, there was much more of it actually. If you were to look at society as a whole now as compared to ancient times, I think you would find that we have changed and grown a LOT when it comes to violence and violent behaviors, but humans are far from being perfect and there are always going to be crazy people and criminals among us, and the more people you have, the more of those kinds of people you have as well.

Okay, in ancient times, watching people murder each other with swords and being fed to wild animals was considered family entertainment.

What we have now is people who have no business owning military grade weaponry having access to it.

And when an Adam Lanza or a Nikolas Cruz shoots up a lot of people, we act all surprised when this happens.

I would suggest you go to the nearest police station and turn in your dangerous weapon to the racist cop who happens to be on duty.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So is gun violence so prevalent that we are all unsafe and should therefore give up our guns? Or is it that we are so safe that we are just paranoid that we feel we may need to have a gun some day? Hmm. Yet another liberal dilemma.

No it's not

Most gun violence takes place in very distinct areas of just 5% of all the counties in the US

 

[ChrisL]

Don't pull out your cell phone though, whatever you do. He might shoot ya!

 

[2aguy]

It's not as if violence in society is something new. I think that in the past, there was much more of it actually. If you were to look at society as a whole now as compared to ancient times, I think you would find that we have changed and grown a LOT when it comes to violence and violent behaviors, but humans are far from being perfect and there are always going to be crazy people and criminals among us, and the more people you have, the more of those kinds of people you have as well.

Okay, in ancient times, watching people murder each other with swords and being fed to wild animals was considered family entertainment.

What we have now is people who have no business owning military grade weaponry having access to it.

And when an Adam Lanza or a Nikolas Cruz shoots up a lot of people, we act all surprised when this happens.

The AR-15 and all other semi automatic guns are not military weapons......but thanks for lying.

 

[ChrisL]

So is gun violence so prevalent that we are all unsafe and should therefore give up our guns? Or is it that we are so safe that we are just paranoid that we feel we may need to have a gun some day? Hmm. Yet another liberal dilemma.

No it's not

Most gun violence takes place in very distinct areas of just 5% of all the counties in the US

So is gun violence so prevalent that we are all unsafe and should therefore give up our guns? Or is it that we are so safe that we are just paranoid that we feel we may need to have a gun some day? Hmm. Yet another liberal dilemma.

No it's not

Most gun violence takes place in very distinct areas of just 5% of all the counties in the US

Isn't obvious that it was a rhetorical question to point out the hypocrisy of liberal group think?

 

[JoeB131]

I think you libs need to decide, is there or isn't there a "bad guy" around every corner because the way you talk, you would think just about every American is a "bad guy."

Let me know when you want to talk about the argument I made rather than the one you wish I had made.

Here's the thing. I think that if he hadn't gotten access to a gun, Nik Cruz might have grown out of whatever teenage angst he was going through and become a productive member of society. I find it amusing that most of the guys I grew up with who got into all sorts of trouble are the biggest Law and Order types today.

So is gun violence so prevalent that we are all unsafe and should therefore give up our guns? Or is it that we are so safe that we are just paranoid that we feel we may need to have a gun some day? Hmm. Yet another liberal dilemma.

It's not a dilema at all. The rest of the world has figured this out.

Civilians don't need guns, and when they don't have easy access to them, you have a lot less gun violence.

Most of the 11,000 gun homicides we have every year are not crazy people. They are just regular folks who had one really bad day. (Although the person they shot was arguably having a much worse day.)

We can't outlaw bad days... but we can outlaw guns. The rest of the world has done this.

Heck, we could even have a system like Germany, where guns are allowed, but strictly regulated. They only have 250 gun homicides a year out of a population of 80 million.

 

[JoeB131]

The only side giving up little bits of freedom are the pro 2nd Amendment side....every time.....name the last time the anti gun extremists gave up anything.....

We gave up the Assault weapons ban in 2004, and mass shootings doubled.

 

[JoeB131]

The AR-15 and all other semi automatic guns are not military weapons......but thanks for lying.

Funny, it looks JUST like the M16A1 I used to carry when I was in the army.

But it's probably just trying to fool us.

 

[ChrisL]

The AR-15 and all other semi automatic guns are not military weapons......but thanks for lying.

Funny, it looks JUST like the M16A1 I used to carry when I was in the army.

But it's probably just trying to fool us.

You probably really believe that the gun is trying to fool you. Lol. So, you are saying we should live in fear for our lives because of criminals and murderers getting these weapons, is that right?