Harvard Economist: Immigration Costs US Workers $500 Billion A Year

[Stephanie]

It cost the American citizens (working taxpayers) more than that as they PAY to bring them into the fold by offering shelter, food, medical etc etc. Let alone what they take in JOBS. but according to some we have to open our arms for them even though it takes monies from our own families.

 

[Brain357]

I love it when the Wetbacks are beating Whitey as his own game, and whitey can't stop whining about it.

Aren't we all losing when wages are stagnant?

Immigrants are not the reason wages are stagnant.

Maybe not the only reason, but it isn't helping. Immigrants aren't being hired because they drive up wages...

Blaming immigrants is a way of avoiding the much, much bigger causes of stagnant wages. Immigrants are being used as scapegoats and red herrings.

It's a bullshit tactic the rubes fall for every time because no one wants to hear it is their own fault. They prefer half truths and lies to the whole truth.

I'm listening for what you think is more the cause.

I think declining unions is another big cause, but I don't see how immigration can't be negatively effecting wages. The study in the OP makes it pretty clear what is happening.

 

[g5000]

The Democrats whined and pleaded with Reagan to sign the amnesty bill.

What a complete crock of shit.

Reagan address on immigration and refugee policy:

Illegal immigrants in considerable numbers have become productive members of our society and are a basic part of our work force. Those who have established equities in the United States should be recognized and accorded legal status.

We shall continue America's tradition as a land that welcomes peoples from other countries. We shall also, with other countries, continue to share in the responsibility of welcoming and resettling those who flee oppression.

That generosity was ill advised then, and is more so now.

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if our politicians fail to act on the REAL causes, and the demagogues lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, they are all traitors as far as I am concerned.

 

[Brain357]

The Democrats whined and pleaded with Reagan to sign the amnesty bill.

What a complete crock of shit.

Reagan address on immigration and refugee policy:

Illegal immigrants in considerable numbers have become productive members of our society and are a basic part of our work force. Those who have established equities in the United States should be recognized and accorded legal status.

We shall continue America's tradition as a land that welcomes peoples from other countries. We shall also, with other countries, continue to share in the responsibility of welcoming and resettling those who flee oppression.

That generosity was ill advised then, and is more so now.

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if our politicians fail to act on the REAL causes, and the demagogues lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, they are all traitors as far as I am concerned.

I was afraid you were going into tax expenditures.

You have a link or can you explain how they make the wages of the middle class stagnant?

 

[g5000]

5 things you should know about the Republican welfare state

 

[Correll]

The Democrats whined and pleaded with Reagan to sign the amnesty bill.

What a complete crock of shit.

Reagan address on immigration and refugee policy:

Illegal immigrants in considerable numbers have become productive members of our society and are a basic part of our work force. Those who have established equities in the United States should be recognized and accorded legal status.

We shall continue America's tradition as a land that welcomes peoples from other countries. We shall also, with other countries, continue to share in the responsibility of welcoming and resettling those who flee oppression.

That generosity was ill advised then, and is more so now.

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if you fail to act on the REAL causes, and lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, you are a traitor as far as I am concerned.

I like how you complain about "finger pointing" while pointing a finger at REpublcians for Tax Loopholes, but fail to mention the protection the Dems give to Teacher's Unions.

Also, the "failure" of the education system is primarily a reflection of the breakdown of the Family.

Yes. Automation and Technology is part it.

We've been waiting for technology and smarter work to improve things in the US for a while.

It isn't happening.

Making shirts might not be a 25$ an hour job.

There are plenty of Americans that are willing to work 10$ an hour jobs.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Bottom line: There is no rational argument for allowing people to flood over our borders illegally.

NONE.

 

[Brain357]

5 things you should know about the Republican welfare state

I read all that and it is clear the repubs have plenty of hidden handouts for the rich. But it is unclear how this stagnates wages...

 

[g5000]

The Democrats whined and pleaded with Reagan to sign the amnesty bill.

What a complete crock of shit.

Reagan address on immigration and refugee policy:

Illegal immigrants in considerable numbers have become productive members of our society and are a basic part of our work force. Those who have established equities in the United States should be recognized and accorded legal status.

We shall continue America's tradition as a land that welcomes peoples from other countries. We shall also, with other countries, continue to share in the responsibility of welcoming and resettling those who flee oppression.

That generosity was ill advised then, and is more so now.

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if our politicians fail to act on the REAL causes, and the demagogues lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, they are all traitors as far as I am concerned.

I was afraid you were going into tax expenditures.

You have a link or can you explain how they make the wages of the middle class stagnant?

Tax expenditures transfer wealth up the food chain, and they necessitate higher tax rates on everyone.

For example, the Mortgage Interest Deduction. The MID is rolled into the cost of your house. That means that money you think you are getting to keep is actually cancelled out by the fact you pay more for your house.

Since $80 billion a year is spent on the MID, and you aren't benefiting from it, who is getting that money?

Answer: The people who benefit from higher home prices. Banks, brokers, and real estate agents. That's why the real estate lobby alone spends $110 million a year on campaign contributions and lobbyists.

So you are a sucker. While you have been fooled into thinking "I get to keep more of my own money", you are actually being robbed by the one percenters.

And every dollar that is spent on tax expenditures (deductions, credits, exemptions) has to made up for by someone else. And that is achieved by higher tax rates on everyone.

So you lose twice. Your home price is higher, and your taxes are higher. Thanks to these massive government gift giveaways.

That's why Reagan, a conservative, was so opposed to them. And that is why I am so vehemently opposed to them.

$1.2 trillion a year. What's our deficit every year?

Yeah. Do the math.

If we eliminated tax expenditures, we could lower EVERYONE's tax rates, and that is very, very good for the economy.

Plus, we would have a level playing field, and that is also very, very good for the economy.


Your employer-sponsored health insurance exemption is another example. Employer sponsored health insurance is one of the leading causes of the health care cost curve bending upward. And that problem is further entrenched with the exemption. The exemption should be removed so that this boondoggle is disincentivized. That will help lower health care costs, and that is also very, very good for the economy.

Put simply, we need way, way less government intervention in our daily lives. Tax expenditures are a massive government behavioral control program which are used to control the herd and concentrate wealth into fewer and fewer hands.

 

[Brain357]

The Democrats whined and pleaded with Reagan to sign the amnesty bill.

What a complete crock of shit.

Reagan address on immigration and refugee policy:

Illegal immigrants in considerable numbers have become productive members of our society and are a basic part of our work force. Those who have established equities in the United States should be recognized and accorded legal status.

We shall continue America's tradition as a land that welcomes peoples from other countries. We shall also, with other countries, continue to share in the responsibility of welcoming and resettling those who flee oppression.

That generosity was ill advised then, and is more so now.

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if you fail to act on the REAL causes, and lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, you are a traitor as far as I am concerned.

I like how you complain about "finger pointing" while pointing a finger at REpublcians for Tax Loopholes, but fail to mention the protection the Dems give to Teacher's Unions.

Also, the "failure" of the education system is primarily a reflection of the breakdown of the Family.

Yes. Automation and Technology is part it.

We've been waiting for technology and smarter work to improve things in the US for a while.

It isn't happening.

Making shirts might not be a 25$ an hour job.

There are plenty of Americans that are willing to work 10$ an hour jobs.

These republican attacks on teachers unions isn't helping wages. Public teachers make way more than private. You keep pushimg private schools that pay teachers less.

 

[g5000]

U.S. government debt now stands at 103% of GDP. If private debt is included, the ratio climbs to about 370% of GDP. Scholarly studies indicate that real per capita GDP growth should slow by about one-quarter to one-third from the long-run trend when the total debt-to-GDP ratio rises into the range between 250% and 275%. Since surpassing this level in the late 1990s, real per capita GDP has grown just 1% per annum, much less than the 1.9% pace from 1790 to 1999.

These results indicate that the relationship between debt and economic growth is non-linear, or progressively negative, as debt advances to higher levels, a pattern confirmed by academic research (Chart 2). The latest information further supports this relationship. The current expansion began in 2009, and since then real per capita GDP growth has been 1.3%, less than half the 2.7% average growth in all expansions from 1790 to 1999.

http://www.hoisingtonmgt.com/pdf/HIM2015Q3NP.pdf


Public-private debt hit the magic 275% line in 2000. LFPR has been declining ever since.

Not a coincidence.

 

[Correll]

The Democrats whined and pleaded with Reagan to sign the amnesty bill.

What a complete crock of shit.

Reagan address on immigration and refugee policy:

Illegal immigrants in considerable numbers have become productive members of our society and are a basic part of our work force. Those who have established equities in the United States should be recognized and accorded legal status.

We shall continue America's tradition as a land that welcomes peoples from other countries. We shall also, with other countries, continue to share in the responsibility of welcoming and resettling those who flee oppression.

That generosity was ill advised then, and is more so now.

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if you fail to act on the REAL causes, and lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, you are a traitor as far as I am concerned.

I like how you complain about "finger pointing" while pointing a finger at REpublcians for Tax Loopholes, but fail to mention the protection the Dems give to Teacher's Unions.

Also, the "failure" of the education system is primarily a reflection of the breakdown of the Family.

Yes. Automation and Technology is part it.

We've been waiting for technology and smarter work to improve things in the US for a while.

It isn't happening.

Making shirts might not be a 25$ an hour job.

There are plenty of Americans that are willing to work 10$ an hour jobs.

These republican attacks on teachers unions isn't helping wages. Public teachers make way more than private. You keep pushimg private schools that pay teachers less.

Should I be sorry for wanting more control and choices for parents?

 

[g5000]

Now that you know the REAL causes of wage stagnation and declining LFPR, stop blaming the immigrant darkies.

 

[Brain357]

What a complete crock of shit.

Reagan address on immigration and refugee policy:

That generosity was ill advised then, and is more so now.

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if you fail to act on the REAL causes, and lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, you are a traitor as far as I am concerned.

I like how you complain about "finger pointing" while pointing a finger at REpublcians for Tax Loopholes, but fail to mention the protection the Dems give to Teacher's Unions.

Also, the "failure" of the education system is primarily a reflection of the breakdown of the Family.

Yes. Automation and Technology is part it.

We've been waiting for technology and smarter work to improve things in the US for a while.

It isn't happening.

Making shirts might not be a 25$ an hour job.

There are plenty of Americans that are willing to work 10$ an hour jobs.

These republican attacks on teachers unions isn't helping wages. Public teachers make way more than private. You keep pushimg private schools that pay teachers less.

Should I be sorry for wanting more control and choices for parents?

They have a poor record of success. They are really an attack on teachers and wages.

 

[Correll]

Now that you know the REAL causes of wage stagnation and declining LFPR, stop blaming the immigrant darkies.

Sorry, I still believe in the Law of Supply and Demand.

And you lose credibility when you use the Race Card.

YOur explanation of the Tax Expenditure was very good. I have supported radical tax reform in the past, and will do so again if it every gets any traction.

But today the issues front and center are Immigration and Trade and we can do some good with those.

 

[Brain357]

Now that you know the REAL causes of wage stagnation and declining LFPR, stop blaming the immigrant darkies.

You have shown a problem, but what makes you sure too much immigration is not also a problem? Lots of angry IT people who are unemployed while we bring in lots of guest workers.

 

[Correll]

That generosity was ill advised then, and is more so now.

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if you fail to act on the REAL causes, and lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, you are a traitor as far as I am concerned.

I like how you complain about "finger pointing" while pointing a finger at REpublcians for Tax Loopholes, but fail to mention the protection the Dems give to Teacher's Unions.

Also, the "failure" of the education system is primarily a reflection of the breakdown of the Family.

Yes. Automation and Technology is part it.

We've been waiting for technology and smarter work to improve things in the US for a while.

It isn't happening.

Making shirts might not be a 25$ an hour job.

There are plenty of Americans that are willing to work 10$ an hour jobs.

These republican attacks on teachers unions isn't helping wages. Public teachers make way more than private. You keep pushimg private schools that pay teachers less.

Should I be sorry for wanting more control and choices for parents?

They have a poor record of success. They are really an attack on teachers and wages.

As a supporter of such programs in the past, that was not my intent.

I'm not sure where you get that idea.

I hope it is not based on an assumption that all Rightwingers are by definition Evul?

 

[Brain357]

Now that you know the REAL causes of wage stagnation and declining LFPR, stop blaming the immigrant darkies.

Sorry, I still believe in the Law of Supply and Demand.

And you lose credibility when you use the Race Card.

YOur explanation of the Tax Expenditure was very good. I have supported radical tax reform in the past, and will do so again if it every gets any traction.

But today the issues front and center are Immigration and Trade and we can do some good with those.

It is interesting that trump is saying the same thing about immigration and trade that the unions did before the republicans destroyed them. Make America great again? So like back to when unions were strong?

 

[Correll]

Now that you know the REAL causes of wage stagnation and declining LFPR, stop blaming the immigrant darkies.

Sorry, I still believe in the Law of Supply and Demand.

And you lose credibility when you use the Race Card.

YOur explanation of the Tax Expenditure was very good. I have supported radical tax reform in the past, and will do so again if it every gets any traction.

But today the issues front and center are Immigration and Trade and we can do some good with those.

It is interesting that trump is saying the same thing about immigration and trade that the unions did before the republicans destroyed them. Make America great again? So like back to when unions were strong?

Maybe if the Unions actually started representing the interests of workers instead of being a wing of the democratic party, they would get more members.

 

[Brain357]

You know what else Reagan did? He killed a shitload of tax expenditures.

And ever since then, our corrupt American Politboro has been working double overtime putting them all back in, and then some. To the tune of $1.2 trillion a year now. THAT is the chief cause of our debt and our stagnant wages.

And you know who the biggest offenders are? Republicans. Republicans stuff far more tax expenditures into the tax code than Democrats. Because that's a way to enact a tax hike on every American while giving gifts to special interests without being noticed.

Immigrants have fuck-all to do with our problems. They are scapegoats and red herrings.

Another big cause of stagnant wages is our education system has failed us. We need to teach our kids the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow. This current opposition to Common Core is literally an effort to keep our kids ignorant. The tards are shooting themselves in the head trying to stop Common Core.

A great many of the jobs that are gone are gone forever. They didn't go overseas. They were obsoleted by technology. They are not coming back.

Those jobs that went overseas belong overseas. I'm sorry, but shirt making is not a $25 an hour skill.

America became great because of our ingenuity. We are losing that edge and we need to get it back.

All this finger pointing at immigrants is downright criminal in that it diverts attention away from the REAL causes. And if you fail to act on the REAL causes, and lead the rubes to chase darkies with torches, you are a traitor as far as I am concerned.

I like how you complain about "finger pointing" while pointing a finger at REpublcians for Tax Loopholes, but fail to mention the protection the Dems give to Teacher's Unions.

Also, the "failure" of the education system is primarily a reflection of the breakdown of the Family.

Yes. Automation and Technology is part it.

We've been waiting for technology and smarter work to improve things in the US for a while.

It isn't happening.

Making shirts might not be a 25$ an hour job.

There are plenty of Americans that are willing to work 10$ an hour jobs.

These republican attacks on teachers unions isn't helping wages. Public teachers make way more than private. You keep pushimg private schools that pay teachers less.

Should I be sorry for wanting more control and choices for parents?

They have a poor record of success. They are really an attack on teachers and wages.

As a supporter of such programs in the past, that was not my intent.

I'm not sure where you get that idea.

I hope it is not based on an assumption that all Rightwingers are by definition Evul?

But you have to admit lower wages will be the result of pushing more students private. And there is no evidence they get a better education.