Hatred or Anger?

[Yarddog]

I just posted a response to someone saying that Blacks are full of hate. I would like to expand on that post. I believe there is a big difference between anger and hate.

Most married folks have been angry with their spouse at one time or another. Most parents have been angry with their children. But being angry at them does not mean that we hate them.

Lots of black people are angry, and with good reason. But how free have they been to express that anger? How much have they held back and for how long? When black people express their anger over slavery they’ve been told to forget about it. That was years ago. We’re tired of hearing about the past. Stop blaming your troubles on somebody else. Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, etc., etc.

I think that eventually many people stopped expressing themselves and held it in because they always got the same answer. They were told how to think, how to feel and how to respond to something that was done to their ancestors. And all the while they watch other groups hold annual prayer vigils in order to “remember the past, so that we do not repeat it.”

While some folks think we should forget the past, others, like me, believe we should apologize for it. The Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution apologizing for supporting racism for much of its history. It reads in part, “We unwaveringly denounce racism in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and that we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest.”

I think Black people have good reason to be angry. I, as a White person, have never felt the pangs from the stares, the negative vibes from the body language, the rejection from the crossing to the other side that many black people have felt. Every time a white person inches away, screws up their face, follows customers around the store, pulls someone over because he looks suspicious, assumes a child can’t learn, passes over someone for a promotion, pays someone less money for the same job, clutches a purse or quickly locks a car door, it is a reminder that for many white people, color still matters. And I don’t think we can get past it until we face it.

I must finally say that I see a big difference between placing blame and telling the truth. People who refuse to hear and accept the truth have no hope of finding solutions to their differences. People who embrace the truth, no matter how painful or self-revealing it may be, will ultimately find themselves set free.

Don't know who is saying to FORGET THE PAST. We can remember the past, but don't blame your neighbor for the past. Telling someone to be focused on the here and now is the best advice, that's where the opportunity is.


Quote:
"While some folks think we should forget the past, others, like me, believe we should apologize for it. The Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution apologizing for supporting racism for much of its history. It reads in part, “We unwaveringly denounce racism in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and that we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest.”

The words in bold are true. You need to stop the lying. We read the racism in places like this and even as you guys post up racist crap, you tell us that racism is a thing of the past. You guys are being held accountable for your racism now. You are the benefactors of aa system built upon the denial of rights of others. Your opinion does not represent that of the white race as an entirety. You guys are on the fringe extremes of this society. You're a bunch of loons.

And who determines that we HAVE or HAVE NOT faced the issue of past slavery? I am not for racism or discrimination. Personally I am aware of the evils of how black people were treated in this country, from the Chicago riots to what happened in Oklahoma years back.. etc..
I believe it's up to us on an individual level to treat each other well and I'm not saying to Forget the past but the OP seems to think that most white people are unaware of slavery or that it was horribly wrong. I think we all get that now. I for one have been taught that my entire life. Why would I not have Faced it by now??
If we want to build memorials, give some speeches, write some books thats fantastic but it seems to me that there is a strong movement to keep moving us backwards into GUILT, so that we can pass some more government programs or allow them more control of our lives. I think we can all see that racism still exists, but the government can not and is not going to solve it. It takes us as Americans on a one on one basis to treat each other better and solve our problems. When people say to pick yourself up by the bootstraps, most of that is meant as tough love, because that is Much more lasting than a hand out.

 

[katsteve2012]

Your tantrum does not change the fact that not a goddamn thing happened between 1947 and 1957.....or ever that has marginalized the "poor, maligned" white population.

At least be intellectually honest enough to admit that was a stupid ass statement.

Even. For. You.

Here's a cool little historical tidbit.


African-American Civil Rights Movement (1896–1954) - Wikipedia


"In 1862, the US Congress passed the Morrill Act, which established federal funding of a land grant college in each state, but 17 states refused to admit black students to their land grant colleges. In response, Congress enacted the second Morrill Act of 1890, which required states that excluded blacks from their existing land grant colleges to open separate institutions and to equitably divide the funds between the schools. The colleges founded in response to the second Morill Act became today's public historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) and, together with the private HBCUs and the unsegregated colleges in the North and West, provided higher educational opportunities to African Americans. Federally funded extension agents from the land grant colleges spread knowledge about scientific agriculture and home economics to rural communities with agents from the HBCUs focusing on black farmers and families."



18 fucking 62, white congressmen elected by white voters, using federal power and white tax dollars to help blacks.


Here is something in the time frame you said nothing was done.


"After the case was reheard in December, Warren set about persuading his colleagues to reach a unanimous decision overruling Plessy. Five of the other eight judges were firmly on his side. He persuaded another two by saying that the decision would not touch greatly on the original question of Plessy's legality, focusing instead on the principle of equality. Justice Stanley Reed was swayed after Warren suggested that a Southerner's lone dissent on this issue could be more dangerous and incendiary than the court's unanimous decision.[citation needed] In May 1954, Warren announced the Court's decision, which he wrote. It said that "segregation of children in public schools solely on the basis of race" was unconstitutional because it deprived "the children of the minority group of equal educational opportunities" and thus equal protection under the law"


Separate but equal, overturned unanimously by an all white Supreme Court in 1954.

Warren worked hard and smart to get a strong unanimous decision to settle the issue. You ignored his work and his bravery.

Not to mention the decision of Eisenhower, who choose a civil rights supporter for the court.

Eisenhower, who won two landslide elections despite, (or because?) of his strong support for civil rights.


This is Eisenhower on civil rights, in 19 fucking 53


"Eisenhower overruled him: "We have not taken and we shall not take a single backward step. There must be no second class citizens in this country."[197]"


Generations of good people, working and sacrifice and putting themselves at risk at times, and you dismiss them and lie and deny their contributions.

Your tantrum does not change the fact that not a goddamn thing happened between 1947 and 1957.....or ever that has marginalized the "poor, maligned" white population.

At least be intellectually honest enough to admit that was a stupid ass statement.

Even. For. You.

Here's a cool little historical tidbit.


African-American Civil Rights Movement (1896–1954) - Wikipedia


"In 1862, the US Congress passed the Morrill Act, which established federal funding of a land grant college in each state, but 17 states refused to admit black students to their land grant colleges. In response, Congress enacted the second Morrill Act of 1890, which required states that excluded blacks from their existing land grant colleges to open separate institutions and to equitably divide the funds between the schools. The colleges founded in response to the second Morill Act became today's public historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) and, together with the private HBCUs and the unsegregated colleges in the North and West, provided higher educational opportunities to African Americans. Federally funded extension agents from the land grant colleges spread knowledge about scientific agriculture and home economics to rural communities with agents from the HBCUs focusing on black farmers and families."



18 fucking 62, white congressmen elected by white voters, using federal power and white tax dollars to help blacks.


Here is something in the time frame you said nothing was done.


"After the case was reheard in December, Warren set about persuading his colleagues to reach a unanimous decision overruling Plessy. Five of the other eight judges were firmly on his side. He persuaded another two by saying that the decision would not touch greatly on the original question of Plessy's legality, focusing instead on the principle of equality. Justice Stanley Reed was swayed after Warren suggested that a Southerner's lone dissent on this issue could be more dangerous and incendiary than the court's unanimous decision.[citation needed] In May 1954, Warren announced the Court's decision, which he wrote. It said that "segregation of children in public schools solely on the basis of race" was unconstitutional because it deprived "the children of the minority group of equal educational opportunities" and thus equal protection under the law"


Separate but equal, overturned unanimously by an all white Supreme Court in 1954.

Warren worked hard and smart to get a strong unanimous decision to settle the issue. You ignored his work and his bravery.

Not to mention the decision of Eisenhower, who choose a civil rights supporter for the court.

Eisenhower, who won two landslide elections despite, (or because?) of his strong support for civil rights.


This is Eisenhower on civil rights, in 19 fucking 53


"Eisenhower overruled him: "We have not taken and we shall not take a single backward step. There must be no second class citizens in this country."[197]"


Generations of good people, working and sacrifice and putting themselves at risk at times, and you dismiss them and lie and deny their contributions.

Please. In your haste to insist that I express gratitude to a few white politicians of the distant past for DOING THEIR JOBS, you lied. I did NOT say NOTHING was done between the years that I called out, I said that from 1947 to 1957 there was nothing then or now that happened to marginalize the white population as you implied.

You are wasting time and words trying to convince the wrong person to express gratitude for lawmakers only doing the right thing.

Your problem is that you actually believe that black citizens should be second class and subservient to even the lowest bottomfeeding white man.

You also think that ANY laws passed to create a path to equal citizenship for blacks should be viewed as a gift as oppposed to a RIGHT. And ANY gains made by anyone black is considered "taking from white people" by you.

You are a condecending prick and habitual whiner.

1. Nothing I said, has implied in anyway that blacks should be second class citizens. You are a filthy race baiting liar.

2. The laws designed to "create a path to equal citizenship" were fully supported by republicans then and republicans now. It is as those laws and policies have moved BEYOND that to anti-white discrimination that I object. Nothing I have said gives you reason to say otherwise. YOu are a filthy race baiting liar.

3. The historical tidbit about 1862 was very interesting. White republicans even back before the Civil War, busting their asses for your ancestors. And look at the result. Generations of increasing entitlement and racism and hatred, from people like you.


4. THe Eisenhower stuff was great too. YOu know he appointed FIVE justices to the Supreme Court? NOne of them southerns or segregationists.


5. Yes, in arguing with you over and over the same points, with your constant lying and insults, i did lose the immediate thread of your insane denials and conflated "nothing" with "nothing to marginalize whites". Did I mention that you are a filthy race baiting liar?

Sniff, sniff...have a tissue, sister.

I have told you before, you can stop addressing me immediately, because you will get the same response over and over, you effeminate, pathological nutcase.

You are terminally obsessed with dictating what YOU believe that adults who you do not know should be grateful for. You do not get to decide that in my case.

And as fsr as race baiting, it is YOU who is the race baiter.

You in all of your abject stupidity had the gall to state to IM2 "to look at the last 60 to 70 years" and you intended for that to mean "Blacks have gained at the expense of whites" over that time frame.


I then told you "nothing happened in that time frame to MARGINALIZE the white population". and you, being the egregious, lying asswipe that you are twisted my words so suit your agenda.

I called you on your bullshit and you had a meltdown.

You're a moronic little tool.

There was no meltdown, just me calming and repeatedly calling you on your constant stream of bullshit.


Let's remember you are the one arguing that Abraham Lincoln was not strongly anti-slavery and deserves no credit for freeing the slaves.


You are the stupid one here, not me.

Yet you have failed abysmally at providing even a shred of a fact that he placed ending slavery for HUMANITARIAN REASONS above preserving the Union, while I have repeatedly shown evidence of him placing the preservation of the Union first. I never said that he wasnt anti slavery. I said that his priority was keeping the Union whole.

You have been on a failing mission to write your own footnote over his real legacy.

In his own words, he said if he could preserve the union and not free a single slave or vice versa he would do so.

Looks like you need to check your mirror for a living definition of stupid.

 

[MizMolly]

How long do whites get to lie to themselves? Don't compare Irish and Italians to blacks. None of them faced what blacks did. Affirmative Action divides nothing. whites divided he nation themselves by denying the same rights they got to others. If not for Affirmative Action, America as we see it now would not exist. The only people who say this violates the 14th amendment are whites who are racists themselves. Your first line was pure bullshit and that belief needs to die because it's a complete lie. When whites like you face the truth then America will be less divided. YOU are the ones keeping things divided by lying to yourselves to the extent of creating and pushing a race baited lie because whites got mad that laws had to be made to stop whites from the oppression of those not white. These are not special rules and there are no special people. Whites are the ones who have thought they were especially entitled to things and they still do now. That's why your first line exists and you actually believe it.

Whites? Are you a racist? Why not compare Irish, Italians and other groups who have been prejudiced against in the 20th Century just like Blacks? Lemme guess, because they weren't slaves? You might want to go deeper into history on that one. Specifically "indentured servitidue".

No matter, feel free to spread your hate, keep up the divide, push that attitude that "whites" owe you and let's keep playing the race card as an excuse for everything that's wrong with "black" culture in America. Not your responsibility at all, just keep blaming "whites".

I said what I said and racism has nothing to do with it. When you look at the 20th, you see that whites, such as Irish, Italians or whatever practiced racism against blacks. These whites had full constitutional rights .You need to understand that I have gone deep. Much deeper than you apparently. Because indentured servants signed a contract to come here and work for 7 years in return for getting their trip here paid for you fucking idiot. .I will blame whites for what they deserve to be blamed for, whites do owe us and whites have played the mother fucking race card since at least July 4th ,1776. So shove that hate shit right back up your ass.

Which whites owe you, and for what?

 

[bgrouse]

Yet you have failed abysmally at providing even a shred of a fact that he placed ending slavery for HUMANITARIAN REASONS above preserving the Union, while I have repeatedly shown evidence of him placing the preservation of the Union first. I never said that he wasnt anti slavery. I said that his priority was keeping the Union whole.

Agreed. Ending slavery was a terrible idea anyway. Killing white people over it was downright evil.

 

[sealybobo]

I just posted a response to someone saying that Blacks are full of hate. I would like to expand on that post. I believe there is a big difference between anger and hate.

Most married folks have been angry with their spouse at one time or another. Most parents have been angry with their children. But being angry at them does not mean that we hate them.

Lots of black people are angry, and with good reason. But how free have they been to express that anger? How much have they held back and for how long? When black people express their anger over slavery they’ve been told to forget about it. That was years ago. We’re tired of hearing about the past. Stop blaming your troubles on somebody else. Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, etc., etc.

I think that eventually many people stopped expressing themselves and held it in because they always got the same answer. They were told how to think, how to feel and how to respond to something that was done to their ancestors. And all the while they watch other groups hold annual prayer vigils in order to “remember the past, so that we do not repeat it.”

While some folks think we should forget the past, others, like me, believe we should apologize for it. The Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution apologizing for supporting racism for much of its history. It reads in part, “We unwaveringly denounce racism in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and that we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest.”

I think Black people have good reason to be angry. I, as a White person, have never felt the pangs from the stares, the negative vibes from the body language, the rejection from the crossing to the other side that many black people have felt. Every time a white person inches away, screws up their face, follows customers around the store, pulls someone over because he looks suspicious, assumes a child can’t learn, passes over someone for a promotion, pays someone less money for the same job, clutches a purse or quickly locks a car door, it is a reminder that for many white people, color still matters. And I don’t think we can get past it until we face it.

I must finally say that I see a big difference between placing blame and telling the truth. People who refuse to hear and accept the truth have no hope of finding solutions to their differences. People who embrace the truth, no matter how painful or self-revealing it may be, will ultimately find themselves set free.

It's not just a black psychological problem, it exist in all humans, some have to power to overcome it and control it, others can't and let it control them, but your inability to see the blacks as anything else but victims blinds you to the truth...

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

 

[bgrouse]

I just posted a response to someone saying that Blacks are full of hate. I would like to expand on that post. I believe there is a big difference between anger and hate.

Most married folks have been angry with their spouse at one time or another. Most parents have been angry with their children. But being angry at them does not mean that we hate them.

Lots of black people are angry, and with good reason. But how free have they been to express that anger? How much have they held back and for how long? When black people express their anger over slavery they’ve been told to forget about it. That was years ago. We’re tired of hearing about the past. Stop blaming your troubles on somebody else. Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, etc., etc.

I think that eventually many people stopped expressing themselves and held it in because they always got the same answer. They were told how to think, how to feel and how to respond to something that was done to their ancestors. And all the while they watch other groups hold annual prayer vigils in order to “remember the past, so that we do not repeat it.”

While some folks think we should forget the past, others, like me, believe we should apologize for it. The Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution apologizing for supporting racism for much of its history. It reads in part, “We unwaveringly denounce racism in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and that we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest.”

I think Black people have good reason to be angry. I, as a White person, have never felt the pangs from the stares, the negative vibes from the body language, the rejection from the crossing to the other side that many black people have felt. Every time a white person inches away, screws up their face, follows customers around the store, pulls someone over because he looks suspicious, assumes a child can’t learn, passes over someone for a promotion, pays someone less money for the same job, clutches a purse or quickly locks a car door, it is a reminder that for many white people, color still matters. And I don’t think we can get past it until we face it.

I must finally say that I see a big difference between placing blame and telling the truth. People who refuse to hear and accept the truth have no hope of finding solutions to their differences. People who embrace the truth, no matter how painful or self-revealing it may be, will ultimately find themselves set free.

It's not just a black psychological problem, it exist in all humans, some have to power to overcome it and control it, others can't and let it control them, but your inability to see the blacks as anything else but victims blinds you to the truth...

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

So how have whites "cut them off" from economic opportunity?

 

[Divine Wind]

Agreed. Evolution in action.

Again, the problem is cultural not genetic...at least "race" genetics.

It is genetic. Blacks get the bad genes a lot more often. It's statistics.

Feel free to post links about Black "bad genes" and statistics.

Here's a recent one I posted in response to someone's claim:
The most violent state in America

Thanks but I saw no evidence backing your conclusions that Blacks have inferior or "bad" genes. It's cultural as proved by adoption studies. Take a black baby out of the ghetto, put them in a middle class home and they become Middle Class Americans. Conversely, stick a white baby in the ghetto and you get another gang-banger.

What adoption studies?

There are multiple studies, several of which are listed in the link below. Obviously, children who are born or adopted into middle class or higher income families fair better than those born in low income families for many reasons such as greater educational access, better nutrition and more stable cultural environments.

The Transracial Adoption Paradox: History, Research, and Counseling Implications of Cultural Socialization

 

[Divine Wind]

I just posted a response to someone saying that Blacks are full of hate. I would like to expand on that post. I believe there is a big difference between anger and hate.

Most married folks have been angry with their spouse at one time or another. Most parents have been angry with their children. But being angry at them does not mean that we hate them.

Lots of black people are angry, and with good reason. But how free have they been to express that anger? How much have they held back and for how long? When black people express their anger over slavery they’ve been told to forget about it. That was years ago. We’re tired of hearing about the past. Stop blaming your troubles on somebody else. Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, etc., etc.

I think that eventually many people stopped expressing themselves and held it in because they always got the same answer. They were told how to think, how to feel and how to respond to something that was done to their ancestors. And all the while they watch other groups hold annual prayer vigils in order to “remember the past, so that we do not repeat it.”

While some folks think we should forget the past, others, like me, believe we should apologize for it. The Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution apologizing for supporting racism for much of its history. It reads in part, “We unwaveringly denounce racism in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and that we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest.”

I think Black people have good reason to be angry. I, as a White person, have never felt the pangs from the stares, the negative vibes from the body language, the rejection from the crossing to the other side that many black people have felt. Every time a white person inches away, screws up their face, follows customers around the store, pulls someone over because he looks suspicious, assumes a child can’t learn, passes over someone for a promotion, pays someone less money for the same job, clutches a purse or quickly locks a car door, it is a reminder that for many white people, color still matters. And I don’t think we can get past it until we face it.

I must finally say that I see a big difference between placing blame and telling the truth. People who refuse to hear and accept the truth have no hope of finding solutions to their differences. People who embrace the truth, no matter how painful or self-revealing it may be, will ultimately find themselves set free.

It's not just a black psychological problem, it exist in all humans, some have to power to overcome it and control it, others can't and let it control them, but your inability to see the blacks as anything else but victims blinds you to the truth...

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

Purposely cut off? Who is being forced to stay in the ghettos? Who can't walk out on their own two feet?

While there are, indeed, many problems, when you exaggerate them or exaggerate how whitey is beating down on the poor black man then all you do is further the divide and extend the problem.

 

[sealybobo]

I just posted a response to someone saying that Blacks are full of hate. I would like to expand on that post. I believe there is a big difference between anger and hate.

Most married folks have been angry with their spouse at one time or another. Most parents have been angry with their children. But being angry at them does not mean that we hate them.

Lots of black people are angry, and with good reason. But how free have they been to express that anger? How much have they held back and for how long? When black people express their anger over slavery they’ve been told to forget about it. That was years ago. We’re tired of hearing about the past. Stop blaming your troubles on somebody else. Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, etc., etc.

I think that eventually many people stopped expressing themselves and held it in because they always got the same answer. They were told how to think, how to feel and how to respond to something that was done to their ancestors. And all the while they watch other groups hold annual prayer vigils in order to “remember the past, so that we do not repeat it.”

While some folks think we should forget the past, others, like me, believe we should apologize for it. The Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution apologizing for supporting racism for much of its history. It reads in part, “We unwaveringly denounce racism in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and that we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest.”

I think Black people have good reason to be angry. I, as a White person, have never felt the pangs from the stares, the negative vibes from the body language, the rejection from the crossing to the other side that many black people have felt. Every time a white person inches away, screws up their face, follows customers around the store, pulls someone over because he looks suspicious, assumes a child can’t learn, passes over someone for a promotion, pays someone less money for the same job, clutches a purse or quickly locks a car door, it is a reminder that for many white people, color still matters. And I don’t think we can get past it until we face it.

I must finally say that I see a big difference between placing blame and telling the truth. People who refuse to hear and accept the truth have no hope of finding solutions to their differences. People who embrace the truth, no matter how painful or self-revealing it may be, will ultimately find themselves set free.

It's not just a black psychological problem, it exist in all humans, some have to power to overcome it and control it, others can't and let it control them, but your inability to see the blacks as anything else but victims blinds you to the truth...

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

So how have whites "cut them off" from economic opportunity?

Blacks moved up north for the jobs. Then whites move and take the jobs with them.

That was the 70s. Today Detroit is 80% black but only 20% of the workers downtown are black.

And out in the burbs white hiring managers hire whites not blacks. The blacks in the poorest parts of Detroit are stuck. Where should they go? Whites will leave

 

[bgrouse]

It is genetic. Blacks get the bad genes a lot more often. It's statistics.

Feel free to post links about Black "bad genes" and statistics.

Here's a recent one I posted in response to someone's claim:
The most violent state in America

Thanks but I saw no evidence backing your conclusions that Blacks have inferior or "bad" genes. It's cultural as proved by adoption studies. Take a black baby out of the ghetto, put them in a middle class home and they become Middle Class Americans. Conversely, stick a white baby in the ghetto and you get another gang-banger.

What adoption studies?

There are multiple studies, several of which are listed in the link below. Obviously, children who are born or adopted into middle class or higher income families fair better than those born in low income families for many reasons such as greater educational access, better nutrition and more stable cultural environments.

The Transracial Adoption Paradox: History, Research, and Counseling Implications of Cultural Socialization

So this study determined that both blacks and whites adopted by the same types of middle class families commit the same crimes at equal rates per capita?

 

[Divine Wind]

Yet you have failed abysmally at providing even a shred of a fact that he placed ending slavery for HUMANITARIAN REASONS above preserving the Union, while I have repeatedly shown evidence of him placing the preservation of the Union first. I never said that he wasnt anti slavery. I said that his priority was keeping the Union whole.

Agreed. Ending slavery was a terrible idea anyway. Killing white people over it was downright evil.

Slavery is an abomination and unChristian. The same goes for killing people because of their race.

 

[bgrouse]

It's not just a black psychological problem, it exist in all humans, some have to power to overcome it and control it, others can't and let it control them, but your inability to see the blacks as anything else but victims blinds you to the truth...

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

So how have whites "cut them off" from economic opportunity?

Blacks moved up north for the jobs. Then whites move and take the jobs with them.

That was the 70s. Today Detroit is 80% black but only 20% of the workers downtown are black.

And out in the burbs white hiring managers hire whites not blacks. The blacks in the poorest parts of Detroit are stuck. Where should they go? Whites will leave

They should work in black businesses then. If whites moved that means they no longer have businesses there. Why is it up to the whites to give them jobs? Maybe the whites moved because they didn't like getting murdered by negroes.

 

[bgrouse]

Yet you have failed abysmally at providing even a shred of a fact that he placed ending slavery for HUMANITARIAN REASONS above preserving the Union, while I have repeatedly shown evidence of him placing the preservation of the Union first. I never said that he wasnt anti slavery. I said that his priority was keeping the Union whole.

Agreed. Ending slavery was a terrible idea anyway. Killing white people over it was downright evil.

Slavery is an abomination and unChristian. The same goes for killing people because of their race.

It would have been ideal if Americans never imported slaves to begin with and never allowed black immigration.

 

[sealybobo]

I just posted a response to someone saying that Blacks are full of hate. I would like to expand on that post. I believe there is a big difference between anger and hate.

Most married folks have been angry with their spouse at one time or another. Most parents have been angry with their children. But being angry at them does not mean that we hate them.

Lots of black people are angry, and with good reason. But how free have they been to express that anger? How much have they held back and for how long? When black people express their anger over slavery they’ve been told to forget about it. That was years ago. We’re tired of hearing about the past. Stop blaming your troubles on somebody else. Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, etc., etc.

I think that eventually many people stopped expressing themselves and held it in because they always got the same answer. They were told how to think, how to feel and how to respond to something that was done to their ancestors. And all the while they watch other groups hold annual prayer vigils in order to “remember the past, so that we do not repeat it.”

While some folks think we should forget the past, others, like me, believe we should apologize for it. The Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution apologizing for supporting racism for much of its history. It reads in part, “We unwaveringly denounce racism in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and that we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest.”

I think Black people have good reason to be angry. I, as a White person, have never felt the pangs from the stares, the negative vibes from the body language, the rejection from the crossing to the other side that many black people have felt. Every time a white person inches away, screws up their face, follows customers around the store, pulls someone over because he looks suspicious, assumes a child can’t learn, passes over someone for a promotion, pays someone less money for the same job, clutches a purse or quickly locks a car door, it is a reminder that for many white people, color still matters. And I don’t think we can get past it until we face it.

I must finally say that I see a big difference between placing blame and telling the truth. People who refuse to hear and accept the truth have no hope of finding solutions to their differences. People who embrace the truth, no matter how painful or self-revealing it may be, will ultimately find themselves set free.

It's not just a black psychological problem, it exist in all humans, some have to power to overcome it and control it, others can't and let it control them, but your inability to see the blacks as anything else but victims blinds you to the truth...

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

Purposely cut off? Who is being forced to stay in the ghettos? Who can't walk out on their own two feet?

While there are, indeed, many problems, when you exaggerate them or exaggerate how whitey is beating down on the poor black man then all you do is further the divide and extend the problem.

That is advice I give. Get out.

And don't go to a place where blacks are driving to because the same thing will happen there.

There's a great city where black people live in metro Detroit. It's called Southfield.

And many blacks are leaving the city. This black woman I just dated moved from Detroit to melvindale. Not much better but I asked why she moved she said she had to get her girls out of there. It "was just getting to crazy"

So this woman who is very ghetto is going to have to get some white hiring manager to take a chance on her. It's not easy being black in America.

Do you think if you were treated the same way you'd do better? Who are you been Carson?

 

[bgrouse]

It's not just a black psychological problem, it exist in all humans, some have to power to overcome it and control it, others can't and let it control them, but your inability to see the blacks as anything else but victims blinds you to the truth...

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

Purposely cut off? Who is being forced to stay in the ghettos? Who can't walk out on their own two feet?

While there are, indeed, many problems, when you exaggerate them or exaggerate how whitey is beating down on the poor black man then all you do is further the divide and extend the problem.

That is advice I give. Get out.

And don't go to a place where blacks are driving to because the same thing will happen there.

There's a great city where black people live in metro Detroit. It's called Southfield.

And many blacks are leaving the city. This black woman I just dated moved from Detroit to melvindale. Not much better but I asked why she moved she said she had to get her girls out of there. It "was just getting to crazy"

So this woman who is very ghetto is going to have to get some white hiring manager to take a chance on her. It's not easy being black in America.

Do you think if you were treated the same way you'd do better? Who are you been Carson?

Why don't the blacks run some businesses in Detroit? Then blacks can hire her. How come it's always up to whitey to help them out?

 

[sealybobo]

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

So how have whites "cut them off" from economic opportunity?

Blacks moved up north for the jobs. Then whites move and take the jobs with them.

That was the 70s. Today Detroit is 80% black but only 20% of the workers downtown are black.

And out in the burbs white hiring managers hire whites not blacks. The blacks in the poorest parts of Detroit are stuck. Where should they go? Whites will leave

They should work in black businesses then. If whites moved that means they no longer have businesses there. Why is it up to the whites to give them jobs? Maybe the whites moved because they didn't like getting murdered by negroes.

But they weren't getting murdered by negroes. In fact before the 67 riots blacks were getting beaten by white cops, set up, murdered. We pumped drugs in.

Bottom line is if we gave them a fair shake they would have been fine but we have not given them a fair shake

 

[Divine Wind]

Feel free to post links about Black "bad genes" and statistics.

Here's a recent one I posted in response to someone's claim:
The most violent state in America

Thanks but I saw no evidence backing your conclusions that Blacks have inferior or "bad" genes. It's cultural as proved by adoption studies. Take a black baby out of the ghetto, put them in a middle class home and they become Middle Class Americans. Conversely, stick a white baby in the ghetto and you get another gang-banger.

What adoption studies?

There are multiple studies, several of which are listed in the link below. Obviously, children who are born or adopted into middle class or higher income families fair better than those born in low income families for many reasons such as greater educational access, better nutrition and more stable cultural environments.

The Transracial Adoption Paradox: History, Research, and Counseling Implications of Cultural Socialization

So this study determined that both blacks and whites adopted by the same types of middle class families commit the same crimes at equal rates per capita?

The studies show that people who grow up on wholesome environments which maximize their abilities become more productive citizens than those who grow up in shitholes.

Example; Drug use differences between lower economic and middle class families.

Rich vs. Poor: Drug Patterns Are Diverging
...Findings from two major Federal studies on drug use in America show that in the last few years, better-educated young people have been reducing their use of cocaine and other drugs. Meanwhile, the least-educated have increasingly used cocaine...

...* With the exception of heroin and crack among the poor, the use of illegal drugs in the nation appears to have peaked, including the snorting of powdered cocaine.

* Federally financed studies show that the people turning away from drugs are the most educated and affluent. The poorest and least-educated have continued or increased their drug use.

* Crack, a smokable form of cocaine, has largely remained a poor people's drug. Its rise in the past two years has had devastating effects on poor neighborhoods, but it has failed to make the same inroads into the middle class.

* The most deadly impact of illegal drug use is probably yet to come, as tens of thousands of intravenous drug users, their sexual partners and their children contract acquired immune deficiency syndrome. Most of those people will be poor.

https://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/sites/default/files/ndarc/resources/TR.228.pdf
....For example, social values around individualism can (a) contribute to feelings of alienation and connectedness; (b) reduce social cohesion; and (c) influence the policies that support (or fail to support) families and children (for example, ëfamily-friendlyí workplace policies, provision of childcare, welfare policies). Another example is the impact of secularism on Western culture, which results in a lack of shared meaning and values. In this chapter the authors contend that, while there are some positive aspects to Western culture, other features have been detrimental to youth development and contributed negative outcomes, such as youth suicide and drug use. Drug-specific cultural influences vary with factors such as drug type, setting, group characteristics and historical time. For example, smoking has been fashionable and acceptable in earlier times, but is now neither fashionable nor acceptable among the general population. Drinking to high levels of intoxication can be acceptable and even encouraged among some subgroups in some settings (for example, the pub on a Friday night), but unacceptable among others. Drug-specific norms and values are shaped by a range of factors, such as the mass media (including entertainment, news and marketing), trends in youth culture (for example, 'heroin chic') and laws and their enforcement....

...Social categories Social categories such as class, gender and race can influence access to resources, exposure to marginalisation, roles and expectations. As a result, health outcomes, drug use and drug outcomes are influenced by social category. For example, people from low socio-economic classes have poorer health and are more likely to use tobacco, to drink alcohol in a high-risk manner and to use illicit drugs. Drug-dependent people are particularly likely to be unemployed and to experience marginalisation, both of which can exacerbate their problems and prevent seeking or benefiting from treatment. This report recommends that social policies: viii

 address existing social-group inequalities in drug problems

 address marginalisation and social exclusion in society as a preventive measure

 address marginalisation and social exclusion among drug-dependent people to facilitate achieving and maintaining reductions in drug use and other problems

 ensure that policies do not exacerbate existing disadvantages experienced by social groups by considering how they impact upon the psychosocial and material conditions faced by disadvantaged

 

[sealybobo]

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

Purposely cut off? Who is being forced to stay in the ghettos? Who can't walk out on their own two feet?

While there are, indeed, many problems, when you exaggerate them or exaggerate how whitey is beating down on the poor black man then all you do is further the divide and extend the problem.

That is advice I give. Get out.

And don't go to a place where blacks are driving to because the same thing will happen there.

There's a great city where black people live in metro Detroit. It's called Southfield.

And many blacks are leaving the city. This black woman I just dated moved from Detroit to melvindale. Not much better but I asked why she moved she said she had to get her girls out of there. It "was just getting to crazy"

So this woman who is very ghetto is going to have to get some white hiring manager to take a chance on her. It's not easy being black in America.

Do you think if you were treated the same way you'd do better? Who are you been Carson?

Why don't the blacks run some businesses in Detroit? Then blacks can hire her. How come it's always up to whitey to help them out?

Why don't coal miners re invent themselves?

Whites own all the mega corporations. Blacks did a good job when ford, gm and Chrysler were in Detroit. What company can blacks own to make up for that loss?

I don't know what nationality you are but I'm sure they were treated better than blacks the minute they stepped off the boat.

 

[Divine Wind]

It's not just a black psychological problem, it exist in all humans, some have to power to overcome it and control it, others can't and let it control them, but your inability to see the blacks as anything else but victims blinds you to the truth...

The only one here with the psychological problem is you. For the past 30 odd years I have heard nothing but whites crying about being victims and that incudes you. The truth is this, without slavery, laws and policies that eliminated all completion and gave whites every advantage your ass would not be here making the arrogant comments you make.

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

Purposely cut off? Who is being forced to stay in the ghettos? Who can't walk out on their own two feet?

While there are, indeed, many problems, when you exaggerate them or exaggerate how whitey is beating down on the poor black man then all you do is further the divide and extend the problem.

That is advice I give. Get out.

And don't go to a place where blacks are driving to because the same thing will happen there.

There's a great city where black people live in metro Detroit. It's called Southfield.

And many blacks are leaving the city. This black woman I just dated moved from Detroit to melvindale. Not much better but I asked why she moved she said she had to get her girls out of there. It "was just getting to crazy"

So this woman who is very ghetto is going to have to get some white hiring manager to take a chance on her. It's not easy being black in America.

Do you think if you were treated the same way you'd do better? Who are you been Carson?

Nice rant and simultaneous dodge of what I posted.

 

[bgrouse]

yes I would...and the only one crying is the one that feels the need to wear the victim badge....You poor guys can't seem to get over a damn thing and constantly want to whine about it.You claim to be a self made man and already retired, well dumb-ass, you seem to have made it in a society which holds da black man down...

Im2 isn't playing the victim. He's a successful person. He's trying to tell you America has huge ghettos full of black people who have been purposely cut off from the economic opportunity. And it's been determined whites did it because they don't want to live and work with black people. Even up north in Chicago, Flint, Saginaw and Detroit among many other black cities in America.

Are you suggesting it's black people's fault? I've been convinced it is not. It's white people who've got the power.

Don't Tell us white racist hiring managers don't still exist. Affirmative action should have been amended not ended.

Black people were doing amazingly well ten years after the civil rights then the progress slowed. Cops treated blacks like second class citizens, white flight, etc. No wonder blacks are mad. I'm surprised they don't lash out more similar to the Palestinians

So how have whites "cut them off" from economic opportunity?

Blacks moved up north for the jobs. Then whites move and take the jobs with them.

That was the 70s. Today Detroit is 80% black but only 20% of the workers downtown are black.

And out in the burbs white hiring managers hire whites not blacks. The blacks in the poorest parts of Detroit are stuck. Where should they go? Whites will leave

They should work in black businesses then. If whites moved that means they no longer have businesses there. Why is it up to the whites to give them jobs? Maybe the whites moved because they didn't like getting murdered by negroes.

But they weren't getting murdered by negroes. In fact before the 67 riots blacks were getting beaten by white cops, set up, murdered. We pumped drugs in.

Bottom line is if we gave them a fair shake they would have been fine but we have not given them a fair shake

Everyone knows negrohoods are dangerous places. The whites felt it and moved away.