Hawking says physics proves there is no time for "Gawd".

[OohPooPahDoo]

I thought time is/was constant.

How many hours was in the first "day"?

Time is anything but constant.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Well since the only light today is from the sun and stars, the presence of God is no longer present!
God is dead!

Some on your side are hoping so with good reason.

So tell me, where did the light go?

Some interesting verses here.

God when he appeared to moses he took a lesser form,he took the form of an angel.

Exo 3:2 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him in a flame of fire, out of the midst of a thorn bush. And he looked. And behold! The thorn bush burned with fire! And the thorn bush was not burned up.
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the thorn bush is not burned up.
Exo 3:4 And Jehovah saw that he had turned aside to see. God called to him out of the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses! And he said, Here I am.
Exo 3:5 And He said, Do not come near here. Pull off your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you stand is holy ground.
Exo 3:6 And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Moses could not look upon Gods face or he would die.

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech You, let me see Your glory.
Exo 33:19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of Jehovah before you. And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.
Exo 33:20 And He said, You cannot see My face. For there no man can see Me and live.
Exo 33:21 And Jehovah said, Behold! There is a place by Me, and you shall stand upon a rock.
Exo 33:22 And it will be, while My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.
Exo 33:23 And I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back parts. But My face shall not be seen.


Moses became luminous after seeing God but he did not see God in his full glory this was a form of an angel.

Exo 34:29 And it happened as Moses was going down from the mountain of Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony being in Moses' hand as he went down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face had become luminous through His speaking with him.
Exo 34:30 And Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face had become luminous. And they were afraid to come near him.

So maybe God was the light of the world until he created the sun and moon.

1Ti 6:15 For He in His own time will reveal who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in light which cannot be approached, whom no one of men have seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

This unapproachable light.

 

[Intense]

You can't have it both ways, the bible was written when the sun existed, so if a day in the bible was independent of the sun when the bible was written, then it is independent of the sun today.

Looks like by what you posted on the first day we don't know what the light was on the first day but it appears the sun and moon was not created until the 4th day. But God is also refered to as the light of the world, the light could have been from the presence of God. Who knows.

Face it ,man is limited by his knowledge no matter how intelligent he is. We really are just grains of sand in this universe.

Well since the only light today is from the sun and stars, the presence of God is no longer present!
God is dead!

The only light today is not just produced from the Sun and Stars. What about bio-luminescence?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not according to the infalable God of the bible. Evening and morning predate the sun by possibly billions of years.

Gen 1: 3* ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4* And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Gen 1: 14* ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16* And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Apparently you can't read. I wasn't questioning what the Bible says, I was questioning your assertion that the evening and the morning are not currently related to the sun.

You can't have it both ways, the bible was written when the sun existed, so if a day in the bible was independent of the sun when the bible was written, then it is independent of the sun today.

Show me where I said that and you can laugh at me, until then I get to laugh at all the stupid things you say, like when you tried to argue that a day is not currently linked to the sun.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There is movement in a heat death universe, just not bulk movement. Its all thermalized movement (which is heat).

You don't understand the heat death theory.

Actually, I do, which is why I discount it. I am with Dyson in this, heat death is a myth. Gravity fracks up the thermodynamics.

Dyson who?

You are talking about astrophysics and you don't know who Freeman Dyson is?

 

[percysunshine]

Time only flows in one direction. It would be cool if we could change that, but we can't.

 

[HUGGY]

Just a note. Hawking is in Seattle today to give a speach at the Paramount theater for some scientific group.

How is that possible?

 

[Liability]

Just a note. Hawking is in Seattle today to give a speach at the Paramount theater for some scientific group.

How is that possible?

Computers and electronic speech technology.

Seriously.

 

[edthecynic]

Some on your side are hoping so with good reason.

So tell me, where did the light go?

Some interesting verses here.

God when he appeared to moses he took a lesser form,he took the form of an angel.

Exo 3:2 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him in a flame of fire, out of the midst of a thorn bush. And he looked. And behold! The thorn bush burned with fire! And the thorn bush was not burned up.
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the thorn bush is not burned up.
Exo 3:4 And Jehovah saw that he had turned aside to see. God called to him out of the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses! And he said, Here I am.
Exo 3:5 And He said, Do not come near here. Pull off your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you stand is holy ground.
Exo 3:6 And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Moses could not look upon Gods face or he would die.

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech You, let me see Your glory.
Exo 33:19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of Jehovah before you. And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.
Exo 33:20 And He said, You cannot see My face. For there no man can see Me and live.
Exo 33:21 And Jehovah said, Behold! There is a place by Me, and you shall stand upon a rock.
Exo 33:22 And it will be, while My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.
Exo 33:23 And I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back parts. But My face shall not be seen.


Moses became luminous after seeing God but he did not see God in his full glory this was a form of an angel.

Exo 34:29 And it happened as Moses was going down from the mountain of Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony being in Moses' hand as he went down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face had become luminous through His speaking with him.
Exo 34:30 And Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face had become luminous. And they were afraid to come near him.

So maybe God was the light of the world until he created the sun and moon.

1Ti 6:15 For He in His own time will reveal who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in light which cannot be approached, whom no one of men have seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

This unapproachable light.

It seems Adam and Eve were able to approach and see the unseeable without getting a suntan. And they weren't the only ones!

Gen 2: 6* ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7* And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8* And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 ¶ And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10* And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 ¶ And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12* And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14* ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15* And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16* ¶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17* ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18* Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19* In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20* ¶ And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21* ¶ Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22* ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24* So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Gen 35: 6 ¶ So Jacob came to Luz, which is in the land of Canaan, that is, Bethel, he and all the people that were with him.
7* And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother.
8* But Deborah Rebekah’s nurse died, and she was buried beneath Bethel under an oak: and the name of it was called Allonbachuth.
9* And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him.
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
13* And God went up from him in the place where he talked with him.
14* And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, even a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon.
15 And Jacob called the name of the place where God spake with him, Bethel.

Gen 17:15* ¶ And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16* And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17* Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18* And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20* And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21* But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
22* And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
23* ¶ And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.
18:1* ¶ And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2* And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3* And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4* Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5* And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Actually, I do, which is why I discount it. I am with Dyson in this, heat death is a myth. Gravity fracks up the thermodynamics.

Dyson who?

You are talking about astrophysics and you don't know who Freeman Dyson is?

You'll have to forgive us mere mortals for not knowing everything. I know sometimes its easy for a super-genius that knows all like yourself to forget that.


Anyway, I think he's wrong. If the universe expands to the point that gravity is no longer a significant force, his reasoning breaks down. I guess Dyson is so hold he must have missed the memo on the accelerating expansion of the Universe.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Just a note. Hawking is in Seattle today to give a speach at the Paramount theater for some scientific group.

How is that possible?

How is it not?

 

[Youwerecreated]

So tell me, where did the light go?

Some interesting verses here.

God when he appeared to moses he took a lesser form,he took the form of an angel.

Exo 3:2 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him in a flame of fire, out of the midst of a thorn bush. And he looked. And behold! The thorn bush burned with fire! And the thorn bush was not burned up.
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the thorn bush is not burned up.
Exo 3:4 And Jehovah saw that he had turned aside to see. God called to him out of the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses! And he said, Here I am.
Exo 3:5 And He said, Do not come near here. Pull off your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you stand is holy ground.
Exo 3:6 And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Moses could not look upon Gods face or he would die.

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech You, let me see Your glory.
Exo 33:19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of Jehovah before you. And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.
Exo 33:20 And He said, You cannot see My face. For there no man can see Me and live.
Exo 33:21 And Jehovah said, Behold! There is a place by Me, and you shall stand upon a rock.
Exo 33:22 And it will be, while My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.
Exo 33:23 And I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back parts. But My face shall not be seen.


Moses became luminous after seeing God but he did not see God in his full glory this was a form of an angel.

Exo 34:29 And it happened as Moses was going down from the mountain of Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony being in Moses' hand as he went down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face had become luminous through His speaking with him.
Exo 34:30 And Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face had become luminous. And they were afraid to come near him.

So maybe God was the light of the world until he created the sun and moon.

1Ti 6:15 For He in His own time will reveal who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in light which cannot be approached, whom no one of men have seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

This unapproachable light.

It seems Adam and Eve were able to approach and see the unseeable without getting a suntan. And they weren't the only ones!

Gen 2: 6* ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7* And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8* And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 ¶ And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10* And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 ¶ And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12* And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14* ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15* And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16* ¶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17* ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18* Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19* In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20* ¶ And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21* ¶ Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22* ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24* So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Gen 35: 6 ¶ So Jacob came to Luz, which is in the land of Canaan, that is, Bethel, he and all the people that were with him.
7* And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother.
8* But Deborah Rebekah’s nurse died, and she was buried beneath Bethel under an oak: and the name of it was called Allonbachuth.
9* And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him.
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
13* And God went up from him in the place where he talked with him.
14* And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, even a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon.
15 And Jacob called the name of the place where God spake with him, Bethel.

Gen 17:15* ¶ And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16* And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17* Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18* And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20* And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21* But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
22* And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
23* ¶ And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.
18:1* ¶ And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2* And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3* And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4* Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5* And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

They heard the voice of God. And anytime God appeared he took a lesser form. The angel of the Lord is God. With the Israelites were being lead by the Lord he had to hide in the clouds and that is taking a lesser form. I am on my phone so I can give you more examples unless someone would be kind enough to do it for me in not no worries

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Dyson who?

You are talking about astrophysics and you don't know who Freeman Dyson is?

You'll have to forgive us mere mortals for not knowing everything. I know sometimes its easy for a super-genius that knows all like yourself to forget that.


Anyway, what paper are you talking about?

Sorry, I thought I posted a link. I was actually thinking about "]Creation of the Universe by Fang Zhi and Li Xian. Fang Zhi made the argument against heat death much easier to understand than anyone else I have ever read.

By the way, I knew about Dyson from being a geek and reading SciFi, not from being a genius, Dyson Sphere's have even been in Star Trek. Larry Niven modified the idea when he created Ringworld.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You are talking about astrophysics and you don't know who Freeman Dyson is?

You'll have to forgive us mere mortals for not knowing everything. I know sometimes its easy for a super-genius that knows all like yourself to forget that.


Anyway, what paper are you talking about?

Sorry, I thought I posted a link. I was actually thinking about "]Creation of the Universe by Fang Zhi and Li Xian. Fang Zhi made the argument against heat death much easier to understand than anyone else I have ever read.

Published in 93. The accelerated expansion of the universe was not discovered until 1998.
Heat death is a viable hypothesis again.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You'll have to forgive us mere mortals for not knowing everything. I know sometimes its easy for a super-genius that knows all like yourself to forget that.


Anyway, what paper are you talking about?

Sorry, I thought I posted a link. I was actually thinking about "]Creation of the Universe by Fang Zhi and Li Xian. Fang Zhi made the argument against heat death much easier to understand than anyone else I have ever read.

Published in 93. The accelerated expansion of the universe was not discovered until 1998.
Heat death is a viable hypothesis again.

What is the energy source that originated all we observe today ?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You'll have to forgive us mere mortals for not knowing everything. I know sometimes its easy for a super-genius that knows all like yourself to forget that.


Anyway, what paper are you talking about?

Sorry, I thought I posted a link. I was actually thinking about "]Creation of the Universe by Fang Zhi and Li Xian. Fang Zhi made the argument against heat death much easier to understand than anyone else I have ever read.

Published in 93. The accelerated expansion of the universe was not discovered until 1998.
Heat death is a viable hypothesis again.

Funny how dismiss something based on the date it was written. Does that make Einstein obsolete?

 

[edthecynic]

Some interesting verses here.

God when he appeared to moses he took a lesser form,he took the form of an angel.

Exo 3:2 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him in a flame of fire, out of the midst of a thorn bush. And he looked. And behold! The thorn bush burned with fire! And the thorn bush was not burned up.
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the thorn bush is not burned up.
Exo 3:4 And Jehovah saw that he had turned aside to see. God called to him out of the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses! And he said, Here I am.
Exo 3:5 And He said, Do not come near here. Pull off your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you stand is holy ground.
Exo 3:6 And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Moses could not look upon Gods face or he would die.

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech You, let me see Your glory.
Exo 33:19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of Jehovah before you. And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.
Exo 33:20 And He said, You cannot see My face. For there no man can see Me and live.
Exo 33:21 And Jehovah said, Behold! There is a place by Me, and you shall stand upon a rock.
Exo 33:22 And it will be, while My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.
Exo 33:23 And I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back parts. But My face shall not be seen.


Moses became luminous after seeing God but he did not see God in his full glory this was a form of an angel.

Exo 34:29 And it happened as Moses was going down from the mountain of Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony being in Moses' hand as he went down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face had become luminous through His speaking with him.
Exo 34:30 And Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face had become luminous. And they were afraid to come near him.

So maybe God was the light of the world until he created the sun and moon.

1Ti 6:15 For He in His own time will reveal who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in light which cannot be approached, whom no one of men have seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

This unapproachable light.

It seems Adam and Eve were able to approach and see the unseeable without getting a suntan. And they weren't the only ones!

Gen 2: 6* ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7* And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8* And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 ¶ And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10* And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 ¶ And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12* And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14* ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15* And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16* ¶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17* ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18* Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19* In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20* ¶ And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21* ¶ Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22* ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24* So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Gen 35: 6 ¶ So Jacob came to Luz, which is in the land of Canaan, that is, Bethel, he and all the people that were with him.
7* And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother.
8* But Deborah Rebekah’s nurse died, and she was buried beneath Bethel under an oak: and the name of it was called Allonbachuth.
9* And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him.
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
13* And God went up from him in the place where he talked with him.
14* And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, even a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon.
15 And Jacob called the name of the place where God spake with him, Bethel.

Gen 17:15* ¶ And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16* And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17* Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18* And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20* And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21* But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
22* And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
23* ¶ And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.
18:1* ¶ And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2* And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3* And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4* Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5* And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

They heard the voice of God. And anytime God appeared he took a lesser form. The angel of the Lord is God. With the Israelites were being lead by the Lord he had to hide in the clouds and that is taking a lesser form. I am on my phone so I can give you more examples unless someone would be kind enough to do it for me in not no worries

A voice does not "APPEAR," and when the lord takes the form of an angel or a cloud the bible specifies that.

De 31:15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
Jud 6:12* And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.
Jud 13:3* And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Funny how dismiss something based on the date it was written. Does that make Einstein obsolete?

Its dismissed based on the fact that in 1993 they would not have had the data that indicates heat death is still possible. DUH.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Sorry, I thought I posted a link. I was actually thinking about [URL="http://www.usmessageboard.com/


Published in 93. The accelerated expansion of the universe was not discovered until 1998.
Heat death is a viable hypothesis again.

What is the energy source that originated all we observe today ?

Unknown.

 

[Liability]

What is the energy source that originated all we observe today ?

Unknown.

There is no source, we have been assured. It was simply "always there."