Hawking says physics proves there is no time for "Gawd".

[OohPooPahDoo]

This has a simple answer the energy that was used to create all we can observe was God. I have demonstrated in the scriptures God puts off energy.

What does that really mean? Energy is a description of mathematical relationships that hold in nature. It's more-or-less bookkeeping, though it's certainly a handy conceptual device.

I'm not sure how you'd deify mathematical relationships, particularly if you want to retain some sort of personal god in the process.

positivist

 

[Liability]

Yeah no one really knows.

So I guess life was first made by The Thing That Made The Things For Which There Is No Known Maker And That Causes And Directs The Events That We Can't Otherwise Explain And Doesn't Need To Have Been Made And Is The One Thing From Which You Can Ask For Things That No Human Can Give And Without Whom We Can't Be Fully Happy And Is Unlimited By All The Laws Of Physics And Never Began And Will Never Finish And Is Invisible But Actually Everywhere At Once And Who Is So Perfect That Even If He Killed Millions Of People Including Babies He'd Still Be Perfect And Who Is So Powerful And Magical He Could Even Make A Virgin Pregnant If He Wanted To.

OR, you could have left it at "no one really knows."

Lots of otherwise perfectly respectable scientifically oriented, who adamantly oppose the notion of "God," seem to have a religious "faith" in "science" even when science, too, fails to answer the basic, fundamental, original question.

Like who?

Like who what?

Do you actually mean to "ask" if I might have a guy like Hawking himself in mind?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

OR, you could have left it at "no one really knows."

Lots of otherwise perfectly respectable scientifically oriented, who adamantly oppose the notion of "God," seem to have a religious "faith" in "science" even when science, too, fails to answer the basic, fundamental, original question.

Like who?

Like who what?

Do you actually mean to "ask" if I might have a guy like Hawking himself in mind?

see bold

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Funny how dismiss something based on the date it was written. Does that make Einstein obsolete?

Its dismissed based on the fact that in 1993 they would not have had the data that indicates heat death is still possible. DUH.

The data doesn't actually back it up though, it just backs up an expanding universe. Believe it or not, those are two separate issues. Boltzmann has postulated that, in an expanding universe, heat death is impossible because the expanding universe will actually increase disorder, which would reverse entropy.

The math is actually pretty simple when you consider it from the standpoint of probability. Thermodynamics is one of those things that works on a small scale and falls apart on a cosmic scale.

• Boltzmann, L. (1974). The second law of thermodynamics. Populare Schriften, Essay 3, address to a formal meeting of the Imperial Academy of Science, 29 May 1886, reprinted in Ludwig Boltzmann, Theoretical physics and philosophical problem, S. G. Brush (Trans.). Boston: Reidel. (Original work published 1886)
• Boltzmann, L. (1974). The second law of thermodynamics. p. 20
• "Collier's Encyclopedia", Volume 19 Phyfe to Reni, Physics, by David Park, p. 15
• "Collier's Encyclopedia", Volume 22 Sylt to Uruguay, Thermodynamics, by Leo Peters, p. 275

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Unknown.

There is no source, we have been assured. It was simply "always there."

Actually, if Hawking is right, it wasn't always there, it just suddenly was.

 

[Liability]

Like who?

Like who what?

Do you actually mean to "ask" if I might have a guy like Hawking himself in mind?

see bold

See bold and blue.

 

[Liability]

There is no source, we have been assured. It was simply "always there."

Actually, if Hawking is right, it wasn't always there, it just suddenly was.

Again, if THAT is what he is suggesting, then his position makes even less sense scientifically since it would then be his contention that something can exist prior to itself.

If it was "always" there and always will be, at least he doesn't have to "deal" with the creation of energy/matter or the impossibility of something coming literally from nothing without being created.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Unknown.

There is no source, we have been assured. It was simply "always there."

Wrong, it has been proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule that energy cannot be created, meaning it has always existed, nor destroyed, meaning it will always exist. Until you come up with an experiment that proves otherwise, you are stuck with that REALITY.

Apparently you missed the OP. According to Hawing there was a point where time did not exist, which would mean that nothing actually existed because everything in this universe is a function of space-time. That would mean that energy had to have been created before we could prove it is impossible to create.

Also, OohPoo actually posted a link showing that, under some circumstances, energy can be created.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yeah they said that about matter as well. I would love to hear an explanation how non-living matter became life.

HowStuffWorks "How Evolution Works"

Evolution is totally irrelevant to abiogenesis.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There is no source, we have been assured. It was simply "always there."

Actually, if Hawking is right, it wasn't always there, it just suddenly was.

Again, if THAT is what he is suggesting, then his position makes even less sense scientifically since it would then be his contention that something can exist prior to itself.

If it was "always" there and always will be, at least he doesn't have to "deal" with the creation of energy/matter or the impossibility of something coming literally from nothing without being created.

I don't know what he is actually thinking, but the fact is that he has said that under the conditions of the original singularity that eventually became our universe time itself did not exist. He wants to use this as proof that God did not exist, which is absurd unless he knows what God is, which would imply that God does exist, which leads us to an endless loop.

The thing I see is that, if time itself did not exist, then nothing existed before that point, including energy. At some point, and for an unknown, and unknowable, reason, everything suddenly was. Cause and effect are irrelevant though, because time is a null factor. The math here is making my head go to weird places, and I am nowhere near as smart as he is.

 

[Liability]

Actually, if Hawking is right, it wasn't always there, it just suddenly was.

Again, if THAT is what he is suggesting, then his position makes even less sense scientifically since it would then be his contention that something can exist prior to itself.

If it was "always" there and always will be, at least he doesn't have to "deal" with the creation of energy/matter or the impossibility of something coming literally from nothing without being created.

I don't know what he is actually thinking, but the fact is that he has said that under the conditions of the original singularity that eventually became our universe time itself did not exist. He wants to use this as proof that God did not exist, which is absurd unless he knows what God is, which would imply that God does exist, which leads us to an endless loop.

The thing I see is that, if time itself did not exist, then nothing existed before that point, including energy. At some point, and for an unknown, and unknowable, reason, everything suddenly was. Cause and effect are irrelevant though, because time is a null factor. The math here is making my head go to weird places, and I am nowhere near as smart as he is.

Word has it that God might be even smarter than Hawking.

 

[daveman]

HowStuffWorks "How Evolution Works"

I see lots of guesses.

Yeah no one really knows.

So I guess life was first made by The Thing That Made The Things For Which There Is No Known Maker And That Causes And Directs The Events That We Can't Otherwise Explain And Doesn't Need To Have Been Made And Is The One Thing From Which You Can Ask For Things That No Human Can Give And Without Whom We Can't Be Fully Happy And Is Unlimited By All The Laws Of Physics And Never Began And Will Never Finish And Is Invisible But Actually Everywhere At Once And Who Is So Perfect That Even If He Killed Millions Of People Including Babies He'd Still Be Perfect And Who Is So Powerful And Magical He Could Even Make A Virgin Pregnant If He Wanted To.

Your theories are no less preposterous than the idea of a Creator.

 

[edthecynic]

There is no source, we have been assured. It was simply "always there."

Wrong, it has been proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule that energy cannot be created, meaning it has always existed, nor destroyed, meaning it will always exist. Until you come up with an experiment that proves otherwise, you are stuck with that REALITY.

I already answered this shit you always spew, edthesickdick. And you ran away and ignored it.

In fact, dip shit, quantum physics DOES postulate that under certain quantum conditions energy (and presumably matter) CAN be created.

The stuff you spew (like a recitation of your scripture) ignores context. IT is not denied, for example (least of all by me) that within OUR universe since the Big Bang energy and matter appear not to be able to be created or destroyed.

But OUTSIDE of that framework, quantum physics disagrees with YOU.

Drones like you wouldn't recognize reality if it bit you on the nose.

You are such a simplistic little twit.

Energy-from-nothing device fails to move - Technology & Science - CBC News

An Irish company that claims to have overthrown a key law of physics with an energy-from-nothing device cancelled a demonstration on Thursday, citing "technical difficulties."

Steorn, a Dublin-based technology development company, said its Orbo "free energy technology" had managed to thwart the principle of the conservation of energy, which states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

The company planned to demonstrate the technology using a self-rotating wheel at the Kinetica Museum gallery in London on Thursday, as well as streaming video of the demonstration through its website.

Instead, a note on the website said "intense heat from the camera lighting" had caused problems with the demonstration and Kinetica would not be open Thursday. Steorn also said the demonstration could be viewed online, but the link led to the announcement about the problem. Following the link to four cameras monitoring the wheel showed no movement by late Thursday.

 

[Liability]

Wrong, it has been proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule that energy cannot be created, meaning it has always existed, nor destroyed, meaning it will always exist. Until you come up with an experiment that proves otherwise, you are stuck with that REALITY.

I already answered this shit you always spew, edthesickdick. And you ran away and ignored it.

In fact, dip shit, quantum physics DOES postulate that under certain quantum conditions energy (and presumably matter) CAN be created.

The stuff you spew (like a recitation of your scripture) ignores context. IT is not denied, for example (least of all by me) that within OUR universe since the Big Bang energy and matter appear not to be able to be created or destroyed.

But OUTSIDE of that framework, quantum physics disagrees with YOU.

Drones like you wouldn't recognize reality if it bit you on the nose.

You are such a simplistic little twit.

Energy-from-nothing device fails to move - Technology & Science - CBC News

An Irish company that claims to have overthrown a key law of physics with an energy-from-nothing device cancelled a demonstration on Thursday, citing "technical difficulties."

Steorn, a Dublin-based technology development company, said its Orbo "free energy technology" had managed to thwart the principle of the conservation of energy, which states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

The company planned to demonstrate the technology using a self-rotating wheel at the Kinetica Museum gallery in London on Thursday, as well as streaming video of the demonstration through its website.

Instead, a note on the website said "intense heat from the camera lighting" had caused problems with the demonstration and Kinetica would not be open Thursday. Steorn also said the demonstration could be viewed online, but the link led to the announcement about the problem. Following the link to four cameras monitoring the wheel showed no movement by late Thursday.

Nobody was talking about a free energy scam, you dip stick.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I see lots of guesses.

Yeah no one really knows.

So I guess life was first made by The Thing That Made The Things For Which There Is No Known Maker And That Causes And Directs The Events That We Can't Otherwise Explain And Doesn't Need To Have Been Made And Is The One Thing From Which You Can Ask For Things That No Human Can Give And Without Whom We Can't Be Fully Happy And Is Unlimited By All The Laws Of Physics And Never Began And Will Never Finish And Is Invisible But Actually Everywhere At Once And Who Is So Perfect That Even If He Killed Millions Of People Including Babies He'd Still Be Perfect And Who Is So Powerful And Magical He Could Even Make A Virgin Pregnant If He Wanted To.

Your theories are no less preposterous than the idea of a Creator.

....and actually far more preposterous...in fact are utter bullshit on their face.

 

[hortysir]

Unknown.

There is no source, we have been assured. It was simply "always there."

Wrong, it has been proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule that energy cannot be created, meaning it has always existed, nor destroyed, meaning it will always exist. Until you come up with an experiment that proves otherwise, you are stuck with that REALITY.

Meaning that MAN cannot do it

 

[edthecynic]

There is no source, we have been assured. It was simply "always there."

Wrong, it has been proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule that energy cannot be created, meaning it has always existed, nor destroyed, meaning it will always exist. Until you come up with an experiment that proves otherwise, you are stuck with that REALITY.

Meaning that MAN cannot do it

The FLoT is not limited to man.

 

[Liability]

Wrong, it has been proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule that energy cannot be created, meaning it has always existed, nor destroyed, meaning it will always exist. Until you come up with an experiment that proves otherwise, you are stuck with that REALITY.

Meaning that MAN cannot do it

The FLoT is not limited to man.

But but but, you keep ignoring quantum physics, edthesickdick.

Why do you hate science, you puss?

 

[edthecynic]

Meaning that MAN cannot do it

The FLoT is not limited to man.

But but but, you keep ignoring quantum physics, edthesickdick.

Why do you hate science, you puss?

I'm not ignoring Quantum Physics, I'm ignoring your stupidity regarding QP. You are too stupid to know the difference between QP and Quantum Field Physics. You are too stupid to know that virtual particles belong to QFP not QP.

The concept of virtual particles is a scheme in which interactions between real particles are calculated in terms of exchanges of virtual particles. IOW, they are temporary virtual states in going from an initial state to a final state. The actual transition is described in terms of a sequence of virtual states. These are like a bridge between the initial and final state. Virtual particles are viewed as the quanta that describe fields of the basic force interactions, which cannot be described in terms of real particles. Like real particles, virtual particles still obey the Conservation Laws.

 

[NeoTemplar]

Even i know that their just different areas of mechanics that deal with specific fields on the Quantum level and this kind of shit is my Achilles heel. IIRC Quantum Field theory rather then dealing with the original Quantum mechanics brings newtons classic mechanics into Quantum mechanics to try and reconcile them.