Healthcare Projected To Cost Near $50 Trillion Over Next Ten Years

[g5000]

I am convinced the Republicans sold us all down the river to socialized medicine many decades ago.

Their protests, while never providing an alternative, are theater for the rubes.

Trump figured that out and rode it all the way to the White House.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Trump is offering NOTHING.

What about the rest of the Republitards for the last 8 motherfucking years?

They need to be honest with the American people.

"We cannot have a single payer system because all of Europe, Canada, Mexico, and Japan have been sucking at the tit of our mammoth defense spending, and we cannot afford it unless those countries pay us for our protection.

"You can have single payer when these countries pay for our defense systems that you have been funding for the last 70 years."

Then, we go to war.

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Well that's a fact. If they had put that money into defense, which is what would be required if the US wasn't there.... then they obviously would not be able to afford the health care system they have.

What aspect of that correct statement, do you not understand?

'Tis true. All the things that these other countries like to congratulate themselves on their "superiority" for exist only because they have attached themselves like remora fish to the United States.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I am convinced the Republicans sold us all down the river to socialized medicine many decades ago.

Their protests, while never providing an alternative, are theater for the rubes.

Trump figured that out and rode it all the way to the White House.

So, our only alternative now is WAR.

.

 

[Slade3200]

I have not. I’m listening to the national conversation and ideas from our leaders and I have looked into things they talk about but have yet to see an in depth analysis. I hope somebody has one done and then starts referring to it. Biggest problem that the Left has is speaking to how they pay for their agenda items.

It's very simple. Single payer healthcare is paid for with higher taxes. At the same time, you and your employer have no more annual insurance payments.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I understand the simple concept but the system is much more complicated than that. A standard of care/coverage needs to be set, right? You can’t have people going to the doctor every day for every sniffle free of charge, right? The dynamic totally changes when people no longer have to pay for things. How many more doctors appointments will be made? How will doctors offices handle the increased traffic? What will wait times look like? How will costs be effected? How is abuse identified and prevented?

The VA is a system that is government run, right? It has some great elements and some really bad broken elements. Don’t you think that system should be polished and humming before we scale it up to a national level? Thoughts?

My family member with the catastrophic illness got that way because of bungling by a private sector neurosurgeon. So no one will ever convince me the VA is worse than the private sector.

Even better, the state had "tort reform" which made it impossible to sue the fuckwit doctor.

So...yeah.

As I mentioned earlier, there are not a lot of people who can afford that kind of burden.

Libertarians shitheads think we should all pay our costs out of pocket, with NO insurance. As if everyone can afford the many millions of dollars which have been spent on my family member as a result of the catastrophic illness.

These dipshits believe you should go around with a begging bowl to pay for the costs.

Meanwhile, Trump and the GOP sit with their thumbs up their asses, promising they have an answer in their empty pockets. But not today! We'll have it for you next Tuesday and it will be so easy!


And THAT is why we are going to end up with single payer.

I’m not interested in “every man for himself” plans. We know that’s not realistic or affordable so why even discuss it. The relevant discussion is private insurance vs single payer. It will only happen if it can make financial sense and if the system can support the increased traffic.

As I pointed out way, way back in this topic, the OECD countries which have single payer have much, much lower per capita costs for healthcare.

So the evidence of "financial sense" is right in front of you.

Also, the whole reason I started this topic was to contrast the $50 trillion cost if we do NOTHING, compared to the $35 trillion cost if we go to Medicare For All.

If Trump and the GOP hucksters do not offer something better, then you can whine about feasibility all you like. It will get you nowhere. In fact, it is just a diversion away from holding Trump's feet to the fire.

Where did you get that 50 trillion number?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Trump is offering NOTHING.

What about the rest of the Republitards for the last 8 motherfucking years?

They need to be honest with the American people.

"We cannot have a single payer system because all of Europe, Canada, Mexico, and Japan have been sucking at the tit of our mammoth defense spending, and we cannot afford it unless those countries pay us for our protection.

"You can have single payer when these countries pay for our defense systems that you have been funding for the last 70 years."

Then, we go to war.

.

Well that's a fact. If they had put that money into defense, which is what would be required if the US wasn't there.... then they obviously would not be able to afford the health care system they have.

What aspect of that correct statement, do you not understand?

That's what I was saying.

We need to make Eurotrash pay for our defense.

.

 

[Slade3200]

I’m not interested in “every man for himself” plans. We know that’s not realistic or affordable so why even discuss it. The relevant discussion is private insurance vs single payer.

I adamantly disagree. The biggest problem with health care is that we've been abusing insurance for 60 years. We've convinced ourselves it's a club you join to score free health care. It doesn't matter whether the insurance company is owned by a corporation, or the government - it still causes the same problems. Insurance isn't a viable way to finance health care. Period.

It’s easy to be mad at the big bad insurance companies but it just isn’t realistic to drop them. Medical costs are much too high so the result is poor and middle class people will either not receive care or go bankrupt.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

It’s easy to be mad at the big bad insurance companies but it just isn’t realistic to drop them. Medical costs are much too high so the result is poor and middle class people will either not receive care or go bankrupt.

But, with nobody able to pay for those services, the providers will be required to compete for available business, and the result is that the cost goes down.

Health Care providers are the only industry that is NOT required to compete with others over prices.

.

 

[22lcidw]

Trump is offering NOTHING.

What about the rest of the Republitards for the last 8 motherfucking years?

They need to be honest with the American people.

"We cannot have a single payer system because all of Europe, Canada, Mexico, and Japan have been sucking at the tit of our mammoth defense spending, and we cannot afford it unless those countries pay us for our protection.

"You can have single payer when these countries pay for our defense systems that you have been funding for the last 70 years."

Then, we go to war.

.

Its more then your spouts. It is selfishness. Selfishness of privileged employees. Again, selfishness of privileged employees. Selfishness of an outdated quota system. Selfishness of a nation emasculating potential great individuals because of it. Selfishness of the aging and we all get old. Selfishness of the extremist feminists. Selfishness of the extremist gay agendas. Selfishness of people living in irresponsible ways. Selfishness of a first world nation where we know we screw up and continue to do so. Selfishness of people who take advantage of all of this. Selfishness of inept people who are given responsible positions and are qualified to be below that only. Selfishness of people who do not realize they are not as good as others but they are important. Selfishness based on egos that we all have and the chitt does not stink. War is inevitable or worse.

 

[Brain357]

It’s easy to be mad at the big bad insurance companies but it just isn’t realistic to drop them. Medical costs are much too high so the result is poor and middle class people will either not receive care or go bankrupt.

But, with nobody able to pay for those services, the providers will be required to compete for available business, and the result is that the cost goes down.

Health Care providers are the only industry that is NOT required to compete with others over prices.

.

Next time you are in an ambulance in need of emergency care be sure to call around for pricing...

 

[Slade3200]

I understand the simple concept but the system is much more complicated than that. A standard of care/coverage needs to be set, right? You can’t have people going to the doctor every day for every sniffle free of charge, right? The dynamic totally changes when people no longer have to pay for things. How many more doctors appointments will be made? How will doctors offices handle the increased traffic? What will wait times look like? How will costs be effected? How is abuse identified and prevented?

I would be more concerned about abuses by doctors and health care providers than I would be about patients abusing the system. Yes, you can have people going to the doctor for every sniffle, free of charge. In a system where everyone has equal right to access, patients don't abuse the system. But doctors and clinics can and do.

People don't go to the doctor for every sniffle because it's too much trouble to do so. Making the appointment, taking time off work, sitting around the office with a bunch of sick people. Yes we have shortages of caregivers here, but please remember that the the Medicial Industrial Complex controls the number of people entering medical school, and keeps the number of new doctors artificially low to keep prices high.

Costs will go down. Substantially. I read an article a few years ago written by a doctor who had worked in both Canada and the US and he said that the made more money in the US, but he got to keep more of the money he made in Canada. That was because the government controls reimbursement rates for all procedures in Canada. Reimbursement rates are control by the Provinces, so they're adjusted based on local costs. This doctor said he spent more time with patients and was able to see more patients in Canada, and focus on their care, not on getting pre-approvals with insurance companies. He also didn't need a third party billing company to collect co-pays and bill insurance companies. His receptionist billed the province.

We have no co-pays on doctor visits or hospital care. You can buy a private or semi-private room in hospital, as well as cable TV and computer access, but our program only covers prescriptions for children seniors, and doesn't cover dental, so we have supplemental insurance with co-pays there, through employers.

A agree that abuse from doctors and clinics and pharma are also big concerns. Regarding your other point, do you think Canada has better medical care than the US?

People who I know with experience with both prefer Canada.

Until they are on a waiting list for 3 years.... Free is always preferable, until you find out the difference in quality.

By the way, do they also prefer the taxes?

What do they have to wait 3 years for? What’s your source?

 

[Siete]

Republicans would rather fuck with Obama and Hillary than they had come up with a healthcare plan for the people .......

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Next time you are in an ambulance in need of emergency care be sure to call around for pricing...

Show me where I said that about emergency services.

You are, in essence, accusing me of wanting private police or fire. I made no such claim.

Now, shut your stupid, whore mouth. You are out of your element.

.

(note: I did not specifically state in my response that noBrain357 threw out a ridiculous strawman. I simply noted it to myself for the purpose of formulating a substantive response.)

 

[Brain357]

Next time you are in an ambulance in need of emergency care be sure to call around for pricing...

Show me where I said that about emergency services.

You are, in essence, accusing me of wanting private police or fire. I made no such claim.

Now, shut your stupid, whore mouth. You are out of your element.

.

(note: I did not specifically state in my response that noBrain357 threw out a ridiculous strawman. I simply noted it to myself for the purpose of formulating a substantive response.)

So you aren’t going to shop price? Sounds like there is no downward pressure on costs.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So you aren’t going to shop price? Sounds like there is no downward pressure on costs.

It sounds like you are conflating emergency services with health care.

.

 

[Brain357]

So you aren’t going to shop price? Sounds like there is no downward pressure on costs.

It sounds like you are conflating emergency services with health care.

.

It is the type of service that makes people broke. Nobody has gone broke from a cold.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

It is the type of service that makes people broke. Nobody has gone broke from a cold.

That what casualty insurance is for.

.

 

[Brain357]

It is the type of service that makes people broke. Nobody has gone broke from a cold.

That what casualty insurance is for.

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And that does nothing to drive down costs.

 

[Slade3200]

It’s easy to be mad at the big bad insurance companies but it just isn’t realistic to drop them. Medical costs are much too high so the result is poor and middle class people will either not receive care or go bankrupt.

But, with nobody able to pay for those services, the providers will be required to compete for available business, and the result is that the cost goes down.

Health Care providers are the only industry that is NOT required to compete with others over prices.

.

That’s fine but then what does that roll out look like in real time? The poor and middle class get screwed while the rich get excellent medical care and then prices drop through competition and the middle class start being able to afford basic care but probably not long term care, the poor will never be able to afford any care. How exactly do you see all this working?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

And that does nothing to drive down costs.

Ambulance services are provided by your local city, paid for with local tax dollars. So, obviously, government monopoly is not driving down the cost.

.

 

[Brain357]

And that does nothing to drive down costs.

Ambulance services are provided by your local city, paid for with local tax dollars. So, obviously, government monopoly is not driving down the cost.

.

It’s not the ambulance, it’s the emergency care you receive once you get to the hospital.