Healthcare Projected To Cost Near $50 Trillion Over Next Ten Years

[Slade3200]

It’s crazy how much is spent on healthcare but good to understand as it is a much needed service. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the cost estimations for Medicare for all an additional 35 trillion over 10 years on top of current costs?

No, the $35 trillion is the total cost. Medicare For All would replace all current costs.

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

I’m not against it but I want to understand how it will actually be better. I don’t have much faith in the efficiency of government buerocracies over private industry. So if we could use Medicare, Medicaid or the VA as an example and see those entities kicking ass over the private businesses then that might be a good start.

 

[Care4all]

No, the $35 trillion is the total cost. Medicare For All would replace all current costs.

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

That's all interesting.....

The one thing you seem to be missing is that Medicare and Medicaid suck.

Medicare and Medicaid reduce costs by flat out not paying the full cost of care. This is why, the Mayo Clinic (ironic since you are the one who cited the Mayo Clinic), has in the past simply refused medicare and medicaid patients.....

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

And even now that they resumed taking them.....

Mayo Clinic will prioritize private insurance patients over Medicare, Medicaid

Citing tighter profit margins, the chief executive of the Mayo Clinic recently told his employees that the prestigious health system will prioritize the care of privately insured patients over those on Medicare and Medicaid.

That bold pronouncement by Dr. John Noseworthy — made in a speech to employees late last year — reflects the growing unease among hospital executives who are watching profits shrink due to steady increases in the number of government-insured patients. Medicaid, whose enrollment has increased dramatically under the Affordable Care Act, traditionally pays hospitals significantly less than commercial insurers.
​

All this talk about how having Medicare for all is so great, and private insurance is so bad.... and yet hospitals and clinic refuse medicare and medicaid, not private insurance.

When you make this bogus claim that medicare for all will be cheaper, all of that is based on the fact that Medicare and Medicaid do not pay the full cost of care.

Well if you eliminate private care, Medicare will have to drastically increase how much it pays out, because hospitals and Clinics without private patients making up the loss of money on Medicare patients will end up going all cash, or going out of business.

You system would never work. This is one of the reasons why you keep pushing for medicare for all over the past 2 decades, and the people you elect to office, when confronted with the facts, end up backing away from it.

I'm not pushing for it... I was simply answering the question of why things would be less expensive...

on your post...
-If we all have Medicare, then the Mayo clinic will have no choice, but to accept Medicare patients.

-Prices should come down for hospitals and the Mayo Clinic, with not needing all the billing clerks and negotiators... so the caps on medical procedures won't be as impactful on their bottom line...

is my guess...

 

[Meister]

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

That's all interesting.....

The one thing you seem to be missing is that Medicare and Medicaid suck.

Medicare and Medicaid reduce costs by flat out not paying the full cost of care. This is why, the Mayo Clinic (ironic since you are the one who cited the Mayo Clinic), has in the past simply refused medicare and medicaid patients.....

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

And even now that they resumed taking them.....

Mayo Clinic will prioritize private insurance patients over Medicare, Medicaid

Citing tighter profit margins, the chief executive of the Mayo Clinic recently told his employees that the prestigious health system will prioritize the care of privately insured patients over those on Medicare and Medicaid.

That bold pronouncement by Dr. John Noseworthy — made in a speech to employees late last year — reflects the growing unease among hospital executives who are watching profits shrink due to steady increases in the number of government-insured patients. Medicaid, whose enrollment has increased dramatically under the Affordable Care Act, traditionally pays hospitals significantly less than commercial insurers.
​

All this talk about how having Medicare for all is so great, and private insurance is so bad.... and yet hospitals and clinic refuse medicare and medicaid, not private insurance.

When you make this bogus claim that medicare for all will be cheaper, all of that is based on the fact that Medicare and Medicaid do not pay the full cost of care.

Well if you eliminate private care, Medicare will have to drastically increase how much it pays out, because hospitals and Clinics without private patients making up the loss of money on Medicare patients will end up going all cash, or going out of business.

You system would never work. This is one of the reasons why you keep pushing for medicare for all over the past 2 decades, and the people you elect to office, when confronted with the facts, end up backing away from it.

I'm not pushing for it... I was simply answering the question of why things would be less expensive...

on your post...
-If we all have Medicare, then the Mayo clinic will have no choice, but to accept Medicare patients.

-Prices should come down for hospitals and the Mayo Clinic, with not needing all the billing clerks and negotiators... so the caps on medical procedures won't be as impactful on their bottom line...

is my guess...

I can't think of anything where costs go down once government takes over.
Just look at the cost of higher education once the government took over the student loan industry.
No, I don't see prices coming down....just the opposite

 

[Andylusion]

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

That's all interesting.....

The one thing you seem to be missing is that Medicare and Medicaid suck.

Medicare and Medicaid reduce costs by flat out not paying the full cost of care. This is why, the Mayo Clinic (ironic since you are the one who cited the Mayo Clinic), has in the past simply refused medicare and medicaid patients.....

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

And even now that they resumed taking them.....

Mayo Clinic will prioritize private insurance patients over Medicare, Medicaid

Citing tighter profit margins, the chief executive of the Mayo Clinic recently told his employees that the prestigious health system will prioritize the care of privately insured patients over those on Medicare and Medicaid.

That bold pronouncement by Dr. John Noseworthy — made in a speech to employees late last year — reflects the growing unease among hospital executives who are watching profits shrink due to steady increases in the number of government-insured patients. Medicaid, whose enrollment has increased dramatically under the Affordable Care Act, traditionally pays hospitals significantly less than commercial insurers.
​

All this talk about how having Medicare for all is so great, and private insurance is so bad.... and yet hospitals and clinic refuse medicare and medicaid, not private insurance.

When you make this bogus claim that medicare for all will be cheaper, all of that is based on the fact that Medicare and Medicaid do not pay the full cost of care.

Well if you eliminate private care, Medicare will have to drastically increase how much it pays out, because hospitals and Clinics without private patients making up the loss of money on Medicare patients will end up going all cash, or going out of business.

You system would never work. This is one of the reasons why you keep pushing for medicare for all over the past 2 decades, and the people you elect to office, when confronted with the facts, end up backing away from it.

I'm not pushing for it... I was simply answering the question of why things would be less expensive...

on your post...
-If we all have Medicare, then the Mayo clinic will have no choice, but to accept Medicare patients.

-Prices should come down for hospitals and the Mayo Clinic, with not needing all the billing clerks and negotiators... so the caps on medical procedures won't be as impactful on their bottom line...

is my guess...

No, that's not how it works. The Mayo Clinic is not going to accept patients that they lose money on, just because you say they will have to. NO, they are not slaves, and they don't have to.

Do you not see how ridiculous it is to even claim that? They are refusing Medicare patients because they lose money on them.

If there are no private insurance patients, does that magically make money losing patients profitable?

This is like saying that if your job cut your wage to $1/hour... that you would continue working there if all jobs were $1 an hour. No you would not. Why would you keep working where you starve? You would either go into business for yourself, or you would move somewhere else, where you can earn enough money to live.

The Mayo Clinic is not just going to say... oh well I guess we'll go bankrupt! Bring in the Medicare patients!

-Prices should come down for hospitals and the Mayo Clinic, with not needing all the billing clerks and negotiators... so the caps on medical procedures won't be as impactful on their bottom line...
​

No lol...... Again... if this was true..... then the Mayo Clinic would have eliminate private insurance patients, and be accepting only Medicare patients now.

There is nothing forcing hospitals and clinics to take private patients, and nothing forcing them to stop taking Medicare patients.

If any of what you said was even remotely true, then the Mayo Clinic and any other health care provider, would be refusing to take private insurance, and only taking Medicare.

Do you see that happening ANYWHERE?? Because according to you, they would save tons of money! And be making this huge profit! Seriously, if I can earn a ton more money by saving all this cash from having 'clerks and negotiators', then I would instantly lay off all those people, end private insurance, and only take Medicare TODAY.

But you don't see that. Not only do you not see that, but you see the exact opposite.

Why? Because you are wrong. Your claims.... are false. It's that simple. You don't know what you are talking about. You have bought into your left-wing ideology, and have substituted your false talking points, for reality.

 

[Care4all]

No, the $35 trillion is the total cost. Medicare For All would replace all current costs.

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

I’m not against it but I want to understand how it will actually be better. I don’t have much faith in the efficiency of government buerocracies over private industry. So if we could use Medicare, Medicaid or the VA as an example and see those entities kicking ass over the private businesses then that might be a good start.

first, there would be no need for the huge bureaucracies of Medicaid or the VA or the CHIP program, etc... if everyone was covered under Medicare...

second, eventually there would be less people using the most expensive care... emergency rooms

third, all the actual medical care would not be government run... it would be in the private sector of medical care, just like it is now, except the VA which is a gvt bureaucracy presently.

some negatives would be

-not having enough doctors if this were to happen all at once and everyone went to see the doctor, which could be temporarily filled by all the foreign students who came to our medical schools to get their doctorate degrees... allow them to stay here when their school visas run out...

and increasing the quotas of doctors each medical school can have each year.... which believe it or not, is actually controlled by medical doctor associations.... and they purposely keep doctor quotas low, so the Doctors out there, can make more money...

when you have a so called man power shortage, then you have to pay more for the limited man power kind of thing......

I think there would be major major major things to work out before a Medicare for all system could be put in place...

Like, would it be the employers buying health insurance now for employees, buying in to medicare for their employees?

Or will employers increase their employee's salaries by the amounts they are paying now for their health care benefit, and we all buy in to it on our own?

Or will it be a tax?

How much of a tax?

just a gazillion questions that need to be thought through and answered...

 

[Care4all]

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

That's all interesting.....

The one thing you seem to be missing is that Medicare and Medicaid suck.

Medicare and Medicaid reduce costs by flat out not paying the full cost of care. This is why, the Mayo Clinic (ironic since you are the one who cited the Mayo Clinic), has in the past simply refused medicare and medicaid patients.....

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

And even now that they resumed taking them.....

Mayo Clinic will prioritize private insurance patients over Medicare, Medicaid

Citing tighter profit margins, the chief executive of the Mayo Clinic recently told his employees that the prestigious health system will prioritize the care of privately insured patients over those on Medicare and Medicaid.

That bold pronouncement by Dr. John Noseworthy — made in a speech to employees late last year — reflects the growing unease among hospital executives who are watching profits shrink due to steady increases in the number of government-insured patients. Medicaid, whose enrollment has increased dramatically under the Affordable Care Act, traditionally pays hospitals significantly less than commercial insurers.
​

All this talk about how having Medicare for all is so great, and private insurance is so bad.... and yet hospitals and clinic refuse medicare and medicaid, not private insurance.

When you make this bogus claim that medicare for all will be cheaper, all of that is based on the fact that Medicare and Medicaid do not pay the full cost of care.

Well if you eliminate private care, Medicare will have to drastically increase how much it pays out, because hospitals and Clinics without private patients making up the loss of money on Medicare patients will end up going all cash, or going out of business.

You system would never work. This is one of the reasons why you keep pushing for medicare for all over the past 2 decades, and the people you elect to office, when confronted with the facts, end up backing away from it.

I'm not pushing for it... I was simply answering the question of why things would be less expensive...

on your post...
-If we all have Medicare, then the Mayo clinic will have no choice, but to accept Medicare patients.

-Prices should come down for hospitals and the Mayo Clinic, with not needing all the billing clerks and negotiators... so the caps on medical procedures won't be as impactful on their bottom line...

is my guess...

I can't think of anything where costs go down once government takes over.
Just look at the cost of higher education once the government took over the student loan industry.
No, I don't see prices coming down....just the opposite

medicare is one of them though that has saved money... mainly because they cap doctors and hospitals, on what they can charge...

Which isn't always a good thing, because it could stifle entrepreneurship in medical devices... and maybe new medicines and who knows what else....?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Some dupe is going to come along and say that we need to repeal Obamacare to relieve the skyrocketing costs of healthcare.

Of course, the dupe's propagandists depend on the dupe having a memory of a goldfish and not remembering how fast healthcare costs were skyrocketing long before anyone even heard of Barack HUSSEIN Obama:

First those projections are shit. Show me a 10 year projection that turned out to be accurate.......it doesn't exist.

 

[Care4all]

Some dupe is going to come along and say that we need to repeal Obamacare to relieve the skyrocketing costs of healthcare.

Of course, the dupe's propagandists depend on the dupe having a memory of a goldfish and not remembering how fast healthcare costs were skyrocketing long before anyone even heard of Barack HUSSEIN Obama:

First those projections are shit. Show me a 10 year projection that turned out to be accurate.......it doesn't exist.

the same group is giving the estimates, I believe.... so if the 30 trillion estimate is not accurate and it will be higher than that, THEN the 47 trillion estimate will also be higher, so it really doesn't matter

 

[dblack]

Not sure what insurance you have, but plenty comes out of my pocket with emergency care or surgeries.

Does it change if you find a doctor that charges less, or are you only required to pay the same amount every time?

Be honest, you do realize that your plan would literally deny care to millions of poor and lower class citizens right? You know they can’t afford long term care, cancer treatment, or complicated surgery. You really want to just leave them to die?

We can take care of them the same way we take care of the rest of the poor. Trying to do that with insurance is stupid. Insurance is not welfare.

So now your talking about a single payer system right? You want to have a tiered system so the poor and middle class gets subsidized via tax payer funds and the rich have to pay for themselves... is that right?

Nope.

 

[dblack]

It’s crazy how much is spent on healthcare but good to understand as it is a much needed service. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the cost estimations for Medicare for all an additional 35 trillion over 10 years on top of current costs?

No, the $35 trillion is the total cost. Medicare For All would replace all current costs.

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

One size fits all, eh?

Insurance is the problem, not the solution. It doesn't matter who owns the insurance company or who pays the premiums. It's the way we're using health insurance that's flawed. Insurance only works as a hedge against risk for people who are already well off. If you have no savings, if you can't afford to pay for basic health care out of pocket, you are poor. You need money, not an insurance policy.

We've come to think of insurance as a way to finance regular health care expenses. And when examined, that notion proves utterly irrational. Would we try to finance any of life's other expenses so idiotically? If you couldn't afford your rent, would you take out an insurance policy to pay your rent? If you couldn't afford groceries, would food insurance make sense? And if we did try insurance to pay for rent and food, what do you think would happen to the price of rent and food?

We're chasing our tails. We've driven health care prices through the roof by abusing insurance, and the insurance industry has convinced us that the only way to afford the higher prices is more insurance. We've been hoodwinked, or maybe we've just deluded ourselves. Either way we need to get over it.

 

[dblack]

We're dealing with two distinct, and in some ways contradictory, problems. First, health care costs way more than it should. The fact that a person with average income can't afford to pay for routine health care out-of-pocket is a fundamental dysfunction of the health care market and that needs to be addressed. Second, we have to figure out what to do about people who are too poor to afford basic health care.

Obviously, these problems are related. If we get health care prices under control, there will be less people who are too poor to afford basic health care. If, on the other hand, we ignore health care price inflation, and focus solely on how to supplement people who can't afford health care, health care prices will continue to increase and more and more people will be too poor to afford basic health care.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

We're dealing with two distinct, and in some ways contradictory, problems. First, health care costs way more than it should. The idea that a person with average income can't afford to pay for routine health care out-of-pocket is a fundamental dysfunction of the health care market and that needs to be addressed. Second, we have to figure out what to do about people who are too poor to afford basic health care.

Obviously, these problems are related. If we get health care prices under control, there will be less people who are too poor to afford basic health care. If, on the other hand, we ignore health care price inflation, and focus solely on how to supplement people who can't afford health care, health care prices will continue to increase and more and more people will be too poor to afford basic health care.

that was exactly my point.

When no one can afford to pay for it, it must go down in price or people who do that business will starve.

Providers have never had to compete on price. It pisses me the fuck off that everybody else has to do it but not doctors and nurses and other providers. They can charge whatever the fuck they want and they don't care if nobody can afford it without "insurance."

The best way to make their price go down is to make them compete.

Then, the people who cannot afford it can be taken care of at significantly lower cost...

And… We don't have to turn into a bunch of fucking commies to do it.

But no no no no no no no no no we have got to be commies. These motherfuckers on here wanna be commies all day long. That's all they really care about. Fuck reason. Fuck alternatives. We've got to be commies.

I want to go to war and make all these commie motherfuckers leave or take a dirt nap.

.

 

[RealDave]

It’s crazy how much is spent on healthcare but good to understand as it is a much needed service. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the cost estimations for Medicare for all an additional 35 trillion over 10 years on top of current costs?

No

What are the current costs of private insurance?

A heck of a lot lower than 50% in taxes that you see in Europe.

They get a lot more than the healthcare

A couple on their 50's could easily pay over $20,000 a year for a policy. Figure in deductibles & copays that could easily be over $25,000 a year. If you make $100k, that's 25%.

Add that to existing taxation.,

The problem with you people is that you are so uninformed & so unwilling to become informed.

 

[RealDave]

We're dealing with two distinct, and in some ways contradictory, problems. First, health care costs way more than it should. The idea that a person with average income can't afford to pay for routine health care out-of-pocket is a fundamental dysfunction of the health care market and that needs to be addressed. Second, we have to figure out what to do about people who are too poor to afford basic health care.

Obviously, these problems are related. If we get health care prices under control, there will be less people who are too poor to afford basic health care. If, on the other hand, we ignore health care price inflation, and focus solely on how to supplement people who can't afford health care, health care prices will continue to increase and more and more people will be too poor to afford basic health care.

that was exactly my point.

When no one can afford to pay for it, it must go down in price or people who do that business will starve.

Providers have never had to compete on price. It pisses me the fuck off that everybody else has to do it but not doctors and nurses and other providers. They can charge whatever the fuck they want and they don't care if nobody can afford it without "insurance."

The best way to make their price go down is to make them compete.

Then, the people who cannot afford it can be taken care of at significantly lower cost...

And… We don't have to turn into a bunch of fucking commies to do it.

But no no no no no no no no no we have got to be commies. These motherfuckers on here wanna be commies all day long. That's all they really care about. Fuck reason. Fuck alternatives. We've got to be commies.

I want to go to war and make all these commie motherfuckers leave or take a dirt nap.

.

Your idea of business is so stupid I can't believe you post here thinking you are smart.

If no one bought casrs, the auto companies would make & sell them at a ,loss? Really?

Doctors won't become doctors if they can't make the good money. Nurses won't take the education to become nurses for minimum wage. People won't build hospitals if there is no profit. Patients won't die on the street to force lowet prices. I don't know where you get this crock you are pedaling (no pun intended) but it is dumber than shit.

 

[RealDave]

No, the $35 trillion is the total cost. Medicare For All would replace all current costs.

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

I’m not against it but I want to understand how it will actually be better. I don’t have much faith in the efficiency of government buerocracies over private industry. So if we could use Medicare, Medicaid or the VA as an example and see those entities kicking ass over the private businesses then that might be a good start.

Medicare is far more efficient than private insurers.

 

[dblack]

We're dealing with two distinct, and in some ways contradictory, problems. First, health care costs way more than it should. The idea that a person with average income can't afford to pay for routine health care out-of-pocket is a fundamental dysfunction of the health care market and that needs to be addressed. Second, we have to figure out what to do about people who are too poor to afford basic health care.

Obviously, these problems are related. If we get health care prices under control, there will be less people who are too poor to afford basic health care. If, on the other hand, we ignore health care price inflation, and focus solely on how to supplement people who can't afford health care, health care prices will continue to increase and more and more people will be too poor to afford basic health care.

that was exactly my point.

When no one can afford to pay for it, it must go down in price or people who do that business will starve.

Providers have never had to compete on price. It pisses me the fuck off that everybody else has to do it but not doctors and nurses and other providers. They can charge whatever the fuck they want and they don't care if nobody can afford it without "insurance."

The best way to make their price go down is to make them compete.

Then, the people who cannot afford it can be taken care of at significantly lower cost...

And… We don't have to turn into a bunch of fucking commies to do it.

But no no no no no no no no no we have got to be commies. These motherfuckers on here wanna be commies all day long. That's all they really care about. Fuck reason. Fuck alternatives. We've got to be commies.

I want to go to war and make all these commie motherfuckers leave or take a dirt nap.

.

Your idea of business is so stupid I can't believe you post here thinking you are smart.

If no one bought casrs, the auto companies would make & sell them at a ,loss? Really?

Nope. If no one was buying cars because the prices were too high, the auto companies would either find away to make cars that cost less or they'd go out of business.

... or they'd lobby government for a federal program that used tax dollars to buy everyone an overpriced car.

 

[RealDave]

We're dealing with two distinct, and in some ways contradictory, problems. First, health care costs way more than it should. The idea that a person with average income can't afford to pay for routine health care out-of-pocket is a fundamental dysfunction of the health care market and that needs to be addressed. Second, we have to figure out what to do about people who are too poor to afford basic health care.

Obviously, these problems are related. If we get health care prices under control, there will be less people who are too poor to afford basic health care. If, on the other hand, we ignore health care price inflation, and focus solely on how to supplement people who can't afford health care, health care prices will continue to increase and more and more people will be too poor to afford basic health care.

that was exactly my point.

When no one can afford to pay for it, it must go down in price or people who do that business will starve.

Providers have never had to compete on price. It pisses me the fuck off that everybody else has to do it but not doctors and nurses and other providers. They can charge whatever the fuck they want and they don't care if nobody can afford it without "insurance."

The best way to make their price go down is to make them compete.

Then, the people who cannot afford it can be taken care of at significantly lower cost...

And… We don't have to turn into a bunch of fucking commies to do it.

But no no no no no no no no no we have got to be commies. These motherfuckers on here wanna be commies all day long. That's all they really care about. Fuck reason. Fuck alternatives. We've got to be commies.

I want to go to war and make all these commie motherfuckers leave or take a dirt nap.

.

Your idea of business is so stupid I can't believe you post here thinking you are smart.

If no one bought casrs, the auto companies would make & sell them at a ,loss? Really?

Nope. If no one was buying cars was because the prices were too high, the auto companies would either find away to make cars that cost less or they'd go out of business.

They already make low priced vehicles. If they can't make a profit, they will shut down, not keep selling as your buddy claimed.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It’s crazy how much is spent on healthcare but good to understand as it is a much needed service. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the cost estimations for Medicare for all an additional 35 trillion over 10 years on top of current costs?

No, the $35 trillion is the total cost. Medicare For All would replace all current costs.

Wrong!!! That is mathematically impossible.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

I’m not against it but I want to understand how it will actually be better. I don’t have much faith in the efficiency of government buerocracies over private industry. So if we could use Medicare, Medicaid or the VA as an example and see those entities kicking ass over the private businesses then that might be a good start.

Medicare is far more efficient than private insurers.

Not every MD takes Medicare and those that do prioritize those with private pay.

 

[Care4all]

No, the $35 trillion is the total cost. Medicare For All would replace all current costs.

How is that possible? Medicare for all would theoretically mean millions more people would be going to the doctor so overall costs would dramatically go up. What is going to balance that out?

Our current system is one of the most expensive in the world.

Agreed, my question is how Medicare for all fixes that and brings costs down.

About one third the cost of our healthcare is the health INSURANCE industry... they do not provide one ounce of actual medical care.... they push paper.

At hospitals and doctor's offices, they have the expense of negotiating the prices with hundreds of different health insurance policies, from work based group policies to individual plans...

a Hospital like a Mayo clinic could have well over 100 different health insurance plans, all with a hundred different prices negotiated for thousands of different medical procedures... It's almost an industry of itself, with the staff needed in Billing etc, which also adds to our health care costs, without a single dime, going to our actual medical care.

With a single payer plan, it is one Insurance company... Medicare, with one single set of prices for all the different medical procedures.

One size fits all, eh?

Insurance is the problem, not the solution. It doesn't matter who owns the insurance company or who pays the premiums. It's the way we're using health insurance that's flawed. Insurance only works as a hedge against risk for people who are already well off. If you have no savings, if you can't afford to pay for basic health care out of pocket, you are poor. You need money, not an insurance policy.

We've come to think of insurance as a way to finance regular health care expenses. And when examined, that notion proves utterly irrational. Would we try to finance any of life's other expenses so idiotically? If you couldn't afford your rent, would you take out an insurance policy to pay your rent? If you couldn't afford groceries, would food insurance make sense? And if we did try insurance to pay for rent and food, what do you think would happen to the price of rent and food?

We're chasing our tails. We've driven health care prices through the roof by abusing insurance, and the insurance industry has convinced us that the only way to afford the higher prices is more insurance. We've been hoodwinked, or maybe we've just deluded ourselves. Either way we need to get over it.

I do not disagree, but the truth and reality is, Pandora's box has been opened and there is no way at this point, to put it back in the box, that I can see.... without killing off a bunch of people in the middle class and lower class, when transitioning back to where there is no insurance, except for catastrophic/Hospital care insurance.


Do you have any ideas on how that could be done?