Heroin in Huntington

[Yarddog]

the word has evolved, the Romans borrowed it from the meaning to tithe 10% to punishing an enemy to execution by 10%. I do believe the modern definition of a large percentage removed is still acceptable, probably less than 50 % i would think . Sometimes people confuse the word with anihilate or to raze but thats pretty common

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well I missed an e on my keyboard and you didn't capitalize the e in English

use this definition from Merriam Webster

to destroy a large number of (plants, animals, people, etc.)

and for clarity let's use this definition of destroy

to cause (something) to end or no longer exist : to cause the destruction of (something) : to damage (something) so badly that it cannot be repaired

Unfortunately for you there is no reason for me to allow you to dictate what definitions I use.

so what definition are you using? since you can't seem to decide

I've already explained that. Please refer to the thread. You have used up all of your "help me please" cards.

OK you gave this

kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of.

that definition does not support your statement that the city was decimated

you said no one need be killed so that leaves destroyed or removed
and we have yet to define what a large percentage is

Of course it does support it. I cant be blamed because you cant seem to comprehend the meaning of words.

So define "large percentage"

I use the older definition because it is more precise. You seem to opt for vagueness

 

[Skull Pilot]

the word has evolved, the Romans borrowed it from the meaning to tithe 10% to punishing an enemy to execution by 10%. I do believe the modern definition of a large percentage removed is still acceptable, probably less than 50 % i would think . Sometimes people confuse the word with anihilate or to raze but thats pretty common

the older definition is more precise.

That's why i prefer it

 

[Asclepias]

Unfortunately for you there is no reason for me to allow you to dictate what definitions I use.

so what definition are you using? since you can't seem to decide

I've already explained that. Please refer to the thread. You have used up all of your "help me please" cards.

OK you gave this

kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of.

that definition does not support your statement that the city was decimated

you said no one need be killed so that leaves destroyed or removed
and we have yet to define what a large percentage is

Of course it does support it. I cant be blamed because you cant seem to comprehend the meaning of words.

So define "large percentage"

I use the older definition because it is more precise. You seem to opt for vagueness

i'm not your dictionary. go look it up so you will be up to speed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

so what definition are you using? since you can't seem to decide

I've already explained that. Please refer to the thread. You have used up all of your "help me please" cards.

OK you gave this

kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of.

that definition does not support your statement that the city was decimated

you said no one need be killed so that leaves destroyed or removed
and we have yet to define what a large percentage is

Of course it does support it. I cant be blamed because you cant seem to comprehend the meaning of words.

So define "large percentage"

I use the older definition because it is more precise. You seem to opt for vagueness

i'm not your dictionary. go look it up so you will be up to speed.

I used the definition you posted in this thread and now you don't want to use that one either

If you like being vague then just admit it

 

[Asclepias]

I've already explained that. Please refer to the thread. You have used up all of your "help me please" cards.

OK you gave this

kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of.

that definition does not support your statement that the city was decimated

you said no one need be killed so that leaves destroyed or removed
and we have yet to define what a large percentage is

Of course it does support it. I cant be blamed because you cant seem to comprehend the meaning of words.

So define "large percentage"

I use the older definition because it is more precise. You seem to opt for vagueness

i'm not your dictionary. go look it up so you will be up to speed.

I used the definition you posted in this thread and now you don't want to use that one either

If you like being vague then just admit it

If you used that definition why are you asking me to define it for you again?

 

[Skull Pilot]

OK you gave this

kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of.

that definition does not support your statement that the city was decimated

you said no one need be killed so that leaves destroyed or removed
and we have yet to define what a large percentage is

Of course it does support it. I cant be blamed because you cant seem to comprehend the meaning of words.

So define "large percentage"

I use the older definition because it is more precise. You seem to opt for vagueness

i'm not your dictionary. go look it up so you will be up to speed.

I used the definition you posted in this thread and now you don't want to use that one either

If you like being vague then just admit it

If you used that definition why are you asking me to define it for you again?

Because you have yet to prove that definition actually fits the situation

BTW it doesn't

 

[Maryland Patriot]

I live in a rural area that was in economic free fall well before the Recession hit. And arm in arm came an opiate epidemic well before it hit the rest of the state. People can't work, have no reason to get up in the morning, have no hope of things getting better, it's easy to stray off the path. It's human to want to feel better. It's very sad. Originally, a lot of our prescription opiates were coming from Canada. When that got shut down, they supplied locally for awhile from robberies and doctor shopping, and when THAT got shut down, the gangs started supplying heroin from southern New England. It's a lot cheaper, and more deadly because Fentanyl is getting cut in.

Okay. You've described what clearly is a problem and you've outlined what you believe is the cause. How about a solution? Any suggestions?

A massive early prevention program targeting kids, like the "This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs" blitz that helped my son's generation believe that drugs were for losers. A lot more structured youth programs for all ages that give them healthy things to do in their free time. Many more treatment centers for addicts wishing to get clean. Different sentencing and disposition for nonviolent drug crimes. We need more of the deferred sentencing programs that allow an individual the opportunity to stay clean for one or two years on strict supervision. If they do, the conviction is erased from their record. And more focus on stopping the heroin entering our state. All these things at once. It will take at least a decade to see real results, which involves at least four elections....politics interferes with programs that need to be long term efforts. Our current governor is a rabid Republican who doesn't believe addicts can be rehabilitated and is doing his level best to shut down methadone programs while waiting lists for treatment can be many months long. He even tried to stop Naloxone from being available to family members of addicts, saying it only delays the inevitable and gives addicts more incentive to use, knowing they won't die.
Hiring more DEA agents was a good move on his part, but it takes a lot more than cops to stop this in its tracks. (no pun intended)

Im with him on no methadone. Its not getting them clean, its only switching their drug of choice. I have one patient that has been weaning off of heroin with methadone for 9.5 years now.
either go with the subs or just let them suffer for a week. My personal choice is the let them suffer, leaves a bigger impact in their mind when they think about using again.
Naloxone should be carried by everyone regardless of use in the family.
I have 7 doses with me at all times. ( cause one dose is not going to save someone that is overdosing if medical help is not available)

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Another issue is advertising. kids watch tv and see, these ads.
have a cold? take this
feeling stressed? take this pill
Cant sleep? heres a pill to help
Cant wake up? pop this for energy
skin itches? penis wont work? headache? blood pressure, weight loss? Pills for all.
Then, Dad comes home and the kid hears dad say, Terrible day at work, I really need a drink to relax/calm down.
Society is drilling it into their heads that its ok to take a drug for any reason.
Then its pushed on them how bad marijuana is, smoke it and go insane, sooner or later the realize the MJ warnings are bullshit.
Why would they think the warnings about Heroin are any more true than those for marijuana.
Like it or not, we all share some of the blame, even if indirectly

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Bottom line? Obesity? You choose to put that food in yer mouth. Heroin? You chose to put that needle in your arm. Now live with it.

how about the addicts that started out on legitimate pain pill that were actually prescribed.
I get the feeling you don't totally understand the addiction process. Yes, sometimes, most of the time some dumbass chooses to put the needle in their arm for the first time. But that is not the case 100% of the time.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

In the same way that some individuals can die from a bee sting or from eating just one peanut, the biochemistry of a very small number of people will make them susceptible to getting become hooked on smack after just, as you've indicated, three consecutive uses.

Conversely, when I lived in Brooklyn I had a friend who used (inhaled) small amounts of heroin from time to time. It seemed to have a relaxing, deeply thoughtful effect on him. He did this for at least the fifteen years I lived across the street from him. The last time I saw him, which was another ten or twelve years after I moved away, he hadn't changed much and was still the same healthy, interesting and funny fellow I'd known.

So the conclusion of everything I've observed and learned about addiction over the years holds that susceptibility depends on an individual's biochemistry and psychological predisposition.

Re: the rest of your message: Well said!

You know, I have been helping heroin addicts get clean and productive for a good amount of time now. I work at a place that deals with this problem and I do interventions.
To pinpoint one reason, even one reason that stands out beyond all others is almost impossible.
Let me say this though. Most of those that use heroin were introduced to it while at some place smoking pot. Pot being illegal tends to put people in situations that other illegal drugs are also being used. This brings them into original contact with heroin, and coke, meth etc....
Now, your average beer drinker is not going to end up in these places because there is no fear of being caught with beer.
Its possible that a strong defense against heroin could be as simple as making weed legal. If its brought out in the open, then there is less chance of someone having to find a place to hide to smoke it. Less chance of being introduced to other drugs. The marijuana is not a gateway drug on its own, but it is one of the keys that open the door to exposure to some of those other drugs.
and honestly, someone that does heroin for the first time, and does a small amount, is going to like it. there is no question.

What about those who are given opiates by the medical establishment? I know of two people close to me who are addicted to opiates, but got that way one after back surgery and the other from depression. They got hooked on Oxycontin. I believe this is another "gateway" where many people become addicted. You agree?

Doctors don't prescribe OxyContin for depression.

they do when the patient claims they are in physical pain, when really they are merely depressed.

Blame the lawyers who won massive awards from doctors who refused to prescribe painkillers to those who aren't in pain.

And now in Maryland the changed laws and its now ok to give opiate pain killers to high school students for their sports related injuries.
I cant see anything going wrong with this.

 

[WillowTree]

Bottom line? Obesity? You choose to put that food in yer mouth. Heroin? You chose to put that needle in your arm. Now live with it.

how about the addicts that started out on legitimate pain pill that were actually prescribed.
I get the feeling you don't totally understand the addiction process. Yes, sometimes, most of the time some dumbass chooses to put the needle in their arm for the first time. But that is not the case 100% of the time.

I guess I don't. I have been prescribed these drugs post operatively and am on them now for a knee injury. I have never even been close to becoming addicted! It never has crossed my mind to smoke or shoot dope. I take it as perscribed and only if I need it.

 

[gipper]

You know, I have been helping heroin addicts get clean and productive for a good amount of time now. I work at a place that deals with this problem and I do interventions.
To pinpoint one reason, even one reason that stands out beyond all others is almost impossible.
Let me say this though. Most of those that use heroin were introduced to it while at some place smoking pot. Pot being illegal tends to put people in situations that other illegal drugs are also being used. This brings them into original contact with heroin, and coke, meth etc....
Now, your average beer drinker is not going to end up in these places because there is no fear of being caught with beer.
Its possible that a strong defense against heroin could be as simple as making weed legal. If its brought out in the open, then there is less chance of someone having to find a place to hide to smoke it. Less chance of being introduced to other drugs. The marijuana is not a gateway drug on its own, but it is one of the keys that open the door to exposure to some of those other drugs.
and honestly, someone that does heroin for the first time, and does a small amount, is going to like it. there is no question.

What about those who are given opiates by the medical establishment? I know of two people close to me who are addicted to opiates, but got that way one after back surgery and the other from depression. They got hooked on Oxycontin. I believe this is another "gateway" where many people become addicted. You agree?

Doctors don't prescribe OxyContin for depression.

they do when the patient claims they are in physical pain, when really they are merely depressed.

Blame the lawyers who won massive awards from doctors who refused to prescribe painkillers to those who aren't in pain.

And now in Maryland the changed laws and its now ok to give opiate pain killers to high school students for their sports related injuries.
I cant see anything going wrong with this.

It is all about the all mighty dollar.

 

[Asclepias]

Of course it does support it. I cant be blamed because you cant seem to comprehend the meaning of words.

So define "large percentage"

I use the older definition because it is more precise. You seem to opt for vagueness

i'm not your dictionary. go look it up so you will be up to speed.

I used the definition you posted in this thread and now you don't want to use that one either

If you like being vague then just admit it

If you used that definition why are you asking me to define it for you again?

Because you have yet to prove that definition actually fits the situation

BTW it doesn't

I already alerted you my intent wasnt to prove anything to you. Keep up with the flow of conversation please.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Bottom line? Obesity? You choose to put that food in yer mouth. Heroin? You chose to put that needle in your arm. Now live with it.

how about the addicts that started out on legitimate pain pill that were actually prescribed.
I get the feeling you don't totally understand the addiction process. Yes, sometimes, most of the time some dumbass chooses to put the needle in their arm for the first time. But that is not the case 100% of the time.

I guess I don't. I have been prescribed these drugs post operatively and am on them now for a knee injury. I have never even been close to becoming addicted! It never has crossed my mind to smoke or shoot dope. I take it as perscribed and only if I need it.

well good for you. There are also people out there that can drink one beer and walk away from the bar.
Do you

Bottom line? Obesity? You choose to put that food in yer mouth. Heroin? You chose to put that needle in your arm. Now live with it.

how about the addicts that started out on legitimate pain pill that were actually prescribed.
I get the feeling you don't totally understand the addiction process. Yes, sometimes, most of the time some dumbass chooses to put the needle in their arm for the first time. But that is not the case 100% of the time.

I guess I don't. I have been prescribed these drugs post operatively and am on them now for a knee injury. I have never even been close to becoming addicted! It never has crossed my mind to smoke or shoot dope. I take it as perscribed and only if I need it.

Look, not everyone out there is as responsible with medications as you. and I don't mean that as a jab , I honestly type that with respect for you.
But even you, over time will build a tolerance to those medications, and given enough time, if the pain stays the same, you will require more to do the same.
Look at it this way. Why can some people drink a beer and be on their way while some don't have the ability to do this?
Addiction is as much if not more a physically genetic issue than it is a choice.
Nobody wakes up one morning and decides they want to spend their life as an alcoholic or an addict.
They fucked up. The deserve help.

 

[Katzndogz]

Deserve help! They fucked up. Why should anyone help them? They got there on their own, they can get out on their own.

 

[WillowTree]

Bottom line? Obesity? You choose to put that food in yer mouth. Heroin? You chose to put that needle in your arm. Now live with it.

how about the addicts that started out on legitimate pain pill that were actually prescribed.
I get the feeling you don't totally understand the addiction process. Yes, sometimes, most of the time some dumbass chooses to put the needle in their arm for the first time. But that is not the case 100% of the time.

I guess I don't. I have been prescribed these drugs post operatively and am on them now for a knee injury. I have never even been close to becoming addicted! It never has crossed my mind to smoke or shoot dope. I take it as perscribed and only if I need it.

well good for you. There are also people out there that can drink one beer and walk away from the bar.
Do you

Bottom line? Obesity? You choose to put that food in yer mouth. Heroin? You chose to put that needle in your arm. Now live with it.

how about the addicts that started out on legitimate pain pill that were actually prescribed.
I get the feeling you don't totally understand the addiction process. Yes, sometimes, most of the time some dumbass chooses to put the needle in their arm for the first time. But that is not the case 100% of the time.

I guess I don't. I have been prescribed these drugs post operatively and am on them now for a knee injury. I have never even been close to becoming addicted! It never has crossed my mind to smoke or shoot dope. I take it as perscribed and only if I need it.

Look, not everyone out there is as responsible with medications as you. and I don't mean that as a jab , I honestly type that with respect for you.
But even you, over time will build a tolerance to those medications, and given enough time, if the pain stays the same, you will require more to do the same.
Look at it this way. Why can some people drink a beer and be on their way while some don't have the ability to do this?
Addiction is as much if not more a physically genetic issue than it is a choice.
Nobody wakes up one morning and decides they want to spend their life as an alcoholic or an addict.
They fucked up. The deserve help.

They have proven alcoholism is genetic. I can become addicted, I was addicted to nicotine. I beat that in 1999. I had a choice beat it or die. I had to consciously make a decision light up or don't. Same with drugs, you have to make that choice, it is hard work keeping a steady supply of drugs isn't it?

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Deserve help! They fucked up. Why should anyone help them? They got there on their own, they can get out on their own.

Thats the beauty of dealing with a conservative like me.
You dont have to help them, I will.
And the big difference? Im not going to try and get legislation passed to force you to pay for it.

 

[WillowTree]

Deserve help! They fucked up. Why should anyone help them? They got there on their own, they can get out on their own.

Thats the beauty of dealing with a conservative like me.
You dont have to help them, I will.
And the big difference? Im not going to try and get legislation passed to force you to pay for it.

What is the success rate of treating heroin addiction?

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Deserve help! They fucked up. Why should anyone help them? They got there on their own, they can get out on their own.

Thats the beauty of dealing with a conservative like me.
You dont have to help them, I will.
And the big difference? Im not going to try and get legislation passed to force you to pay for it.

What is the success rate of treating heroin addiction?

the first time around, maybe 50%, if they live to go for a second run at a recovery it goes up by a large percentage.
The problem is that with a heavy user, the body converts the heroin to morphine, and the morphine converts to metabolites that get collected by the fat cells to be used at a later day when needed.
It can be 7 to 10 years before the metabolites are completely out of the body. This means that if something causes stress, or even the wrong song comes on the radio, the brain can start looking for the drug, the metabolites release and the brain recognizes it as heroin and a craving can be the result.
Its a long road. Putting down the needle is only the first step in a full recovery. the next few years are critical for them to work on themselves and commit to not using.
Ive seen people go out after 5 years clean and overdose because they thought they could handle it just one more time, and they used the same amount they did before they quit.
I have honestly been to 7 funerals just in the last year for those that relapsed or never got help to start with.
On Wed of this week Im taking one girl to a rehab on the Eastern Shore, then on Thursday I bring one to a rehab in northern Maryland. This is out of my own pocket, when they get out in 30 days I will cover the first two months of a halfway/recovery house for them so they have time to find work and start getting back on their feet.
Is it a certain thing that they will be clean a year from now? no. But I still think they have the right to be given that chance.
My initial work is taking them from a stage in the addiction that they dont think they have a problem to the stage of contemplation where they admit they might have a problem and might have to do something about it, to the action stage where they are ready to go into rehab on their own accord.