Hiking the Minimum Wage Doesn’t Help the Poor

[zeke]

Lots of people work for 9 bucks and hour. 40 hours a week, don't miss a day, make 18,720.a year. If you have a wife and kid, what are you supposed to do to feed them, and clothe them, house, medical etc? Why, you will ask the government to help. And that's at 9 bucks.

You can't have a very rapidly growing economy if the wages for most working people don't start to grow.

If someone can't afford to buy even necessary things on the money they currently make, with no raise in income, they still can't afford to buy things.

Higher minimum wage not only helps the min. wage worker, it helps drive the wage scale higher for those working a few dollars about minimum wage. Actully that is where the real increase in wage costs are IMO.

Increasing wages helps increase consumption leads to increased production leads to increased profits etc.

Just economics and common sense. That is, if you believe capitalism should benefit everybody. Used to be called; sharing the wealth.

We don't much like the sharing idea anymore, seems to me.

The Waltons need a few more billion and their workers really only need minimum wage to get by. With a little help from the government.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Raising the minimum wage does help the poor. It gives them more money for working. If you want people to not spooge off of the taxpayer, then give them a good reason for seeking work.

It only gives some people more money. Others get less because those jobs won't exist at all.
I realize that's probably too abstract for you to comprehend.

Here's an article that ironically in arguing against the proposition actually proves it.
Teen Unemployment Crisis: Victims of Minimum Wage or Old People - The 312 - July 2011 - Chicago

It's a very hard concept to understand, because it doesn't happen. It's a right wing myth, like Iraq WMD. It does not really exist. For example, Ohio's constitution mandates raises in the min wage, and joblessness has dropped since the Bush Recession's crushing depth's of despair. Of course, Kasich has implausibly taken full credit. What a joke that is.

 

[midcan5]

More nonsense from the Heritage foundation, a corporate owned and operated tool. Do right wingnuts ever think on their own or are they always guided by corporations who play them like the puppets they have become.

"Many states have departed from the federal minimum wage. Washington's minimum wage is highest, advancing to $9.19, January 1, 2013, and Oregon's is second at $8.95.'

We were in Washington this past year and they are doing well there, a few friends from the Philly area moved there and jobs are plentiful. More factors go into how well minimum wage contributes to society and one of them is the simple morality of sharing the resources of an earth and a place that belongs to all. Corporate tools who argue against a fair wage are simply corporate tools IMHO.

The chart shows the inequality that now exists in America, it shows the power of greed over humanity.

U.S. Minimum Wage History

 

[DiamondDave]

Lots of people work for 9 bucks and hour. 40 hours a week, don't miss a day, make 18,720.a year. If you have a wife and kid, what are you supposed to do to feed them, and clothe them, house, medical etc? Why, you will ask the government to help. And that's at 9 bucks.

You can't have a very rapidly growing economy if the wages for most working people don't start to grow.

If someone can't afford to buy even necessary things on the money they currently make, with no raise in income, they still can't afford to buy things.

Higher minimum wage not only helps the min. wage worker, it helps drive the wage scale higher for those working a few dollars about minimum wage. Actully that is where the real increase in wage costs are IMO.

Increasing wages helps increase consumption leads to increased production leads to increased profits etc.

Just economics and common sense. That is, if you believe capitalism should benefit everybody. Used to be called; sharing the wealth.

We don't much like the sharing idea anymore, seems to me.

The Waltons need a few more billion and their workers really only need minimum wage to get by. With a little help from the government.

As stated many times.... 2 $9 an hour jobs gets you more money.. 3 of 'em gets you even more money

And lets see, wife and kid to support.. probably been in the work force for a number of years.. why the fuck is this person still doing something that pays at or close to minimum wage? No extra effort put in? No classes? No training or learning from others to advance? No showing any responsibility?

And how is ANY OF THAT ANYONE ELSE'S PROBLEM??

You do not have the right to a share of anyone else's income.. neither directly nor via government redistribution... plenty of generous people share voluntarily.. Charities abound with job training, legs up, etc... You don't just get to tell others to share more and you get to remain as the same lazy-ass that you have been...

Go live on a commune.. tell us how great it is

 

[DiamondDave]

More nonsense from the Heritage foundation, a corporate owned and operated tool. Do right wingnuts ever think on their own or are they always guided by corporations who play them like the puppets they have become.

"Many states have departed from the federal minimum wage. Washington's minimum wage is highest, advancing to $9.19, January 1, 2013, and Oregon's is second at $8.95.'

We were in Washington this past year and they are doing well there, a few friends from the Philly area moved there and jobs are plentiful. More factors go into how well minimum wage contributes to society and one of them is the simple morality of sharing the resources of an earth and a place that belongs to all. Corporate tools who argue against a fair wage are simply corporate tools IMHO.

The chart shows the inequality that now exists in America, it shows the power of greed over humanity.

U.S. Minimum Wage History

People have the freedom to be greedy just as they have the freedom to be generous.. and just because you, me, or someone else does not like it when someone is greedy in their eyes, does not give you the right to take away their freedom by taking away their earnings to redistribute to others...

Amazing how you guys don't mind telling others that they have to pay $10 an hour for a zero skill job what 99.99% of the population can do with a minimum of training... but you won't tell others that they are the ones that have to step up to increase their own skills to take care of their own personal wants, needs, and responsibilities

jealous little fuckers to the core

 

[ClosedCaption]

"Them"? Who is "them"? Please post where I've ever defended rich white Democrats or people getting gov't handouts. Otherwise shut the fuckup.

Please post where you've taken them to task like the poor you always complain about. Otherwise STFU

OK, so you can't post a single instance. Now apologize and shut your pie hole, liar.

Just like I thought

 

[The Rabbi]

Raising the minimum wage does help the poor. It gives them more money for working. If you want people to not spooge off of the taxpayer, then give them a good reason for seeking work.

It only gives some people more money. Others get less because those jobs won't exist at all.
I realize that's probably too abstract for you to comprehend.

Here's an article that ironically in arguing against the proposition actually proves it.
Teen Unemployment Crisis: Victims of Minimum Wage or Old People - The 312 - July 2011 - Chicago

It's a very hard concept to understand, because it doesn't happen. It's a right wing myth, like Iraq WMD. It does not really exist. For example, Ohio's constitution mandates raises in the min wage, and joblessness has dropped since the Bush Recession's crushing depth's of despair. Of course, Kasich has implausibly taken full credit. What a joke that is.

It's not a hard concept to understand. It's Econ 101, a course you never took because your education ended at 7th grade.

 

[taichiliberal]

This busts some myths that liberals are putting forth. I think government just wants to be able to take more from people in taxes. This would help them more than poor people. Only a small percent of workers make minimum wage and most start making more if they stay with the job. It's called entry level pay and it's geared mainly for inexperienced young people entering the job market for the first time. Libs try to claim that most poor people are trying to raise families on minimum wage, which is incorrect. Even if the main breadwinner for the family was making minimum, they'd qualify for food stamps and other assistance, which would make up the difference.

This is about the politicians digging deeper into peoples' pockets, even the poor. Remember, even the poorest workers also got a tax increase because they are taking more for social security.

Contrary to the myths, minimum wage workers are not primary bread winners in American households and more than half are young people just entering the workforce.
Hiking the minimum wage makes these inexperienced workers more expensive and contributes to their unemployment.

Hiking the Minimum Wage Doesn’t Help the Poor
Hiking the Minimum Wage Doesn't Help the Poor | Job Creators NetworkJob Creators Network

Reality check to a-typical right wing skewing of the facts (per yet another Koch Brother think tank)

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2011

Unemployment rate demographics, September 2012 : The Editor’s Desk : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

 

[The Rabbi]

Please post where you've taken them to task like the poor you always complain about. Otherwise STFU

OK, so you can't post a single instance. Now apologize and shut your pie hole, liar.

Just like I thought

You thought you could lie about my posts and get away with it? Wrong.

 

[The Rabbi]

This busts some myths that liberals are putting forth. I think government just wants to be able to take more from people in taxes. This would help them more than poor people. Only a small percent of workers make minimum wage and most start making more if they stay with the job. It's called entry level pay and it's geared mainly for inexperienced young people entering the job market for the first time. Libs try to claim that most poor people are trying to raise families on minimum wage, which is incorrect. Even if the main breadwinner for the family was making minimum, they'd qualify for food stamps and other assistance, which would make up the difference.

This is about the politicians digging deeper into peoples' pockets, even the poor. Remember, even the poorest workers also got a tax increase because they are taking more for social security.

Contrary to the myths, minimum wage workers are not primary bread winners in American households and more than half are young people just entering the workforce.
Hiking the minimum wage makes these inexperienced workers more expensive and contributes to their unemployment.

Hiking the Minimum Wage Doesn’t Help the Poor
Hiking the Minimum Wage Doesn't Help the Poor | Job Creators NetworkJob Creators Network

Reality check to a-typical right wing skewing of the facts (per yet another Koch Brother think tank)

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2011

Unemployment rate demographics, September 2012 : The Editor’s Desk : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

From your own link half the workers making MW are under 25. They are unlikely to be heads of households and most likely to be living at home.
Which is what we've been saying all along. Can you not comprehend this?

 

[taichiliberal]

This busts some myths that liberals are putting forth. I think government just wants to be able to take more from people in taxes. This would help them more than poor people. Only a small percent of workers make minimum wage and most start making more if they stay with the job. It's called entry level pay and it's geared mainly for inexperienced young people entering the job market for the first time. Libs try to claim that most poor people are trying to raise families on minimum wage, which is incorrect. Even if the main breadwinner for the family was making minimum, they'd qualify for food stamps and other assistance, which would make up the difference.

This is about the politicians digging deeper into peoples' pockets, even the poor. Remember, even the poorest workers also got a tax increase because they are taking more for social security.




Hiking the Minimum Wage Doesn’t Help the Poor
Hiking the Minimum Wage Doesn't Help the Poor | Job Creators NetworkJob Creators Network

Reality check to a-typical right wing skewing of the facts (per yet another Koch Brother think tank)

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2011

Unemployment rate demographics, September 2012 : The Editor’s Desk : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

From your own link half the workers making MW are under 25. They are unlikely to be heads of households and most likely to be living at home.
Which is what we've been saying all along. Can you not comprehend this?

So the other half are what, chopped liver? And are you trying to tell me that more money doesn't equate more purchases, which helps out businesses? Or at least one bill getting paid on time, which helps out creditors?

Bottom line: the Heritage Foundation plays fast and loose with the facts to feed red meat to neocon/teabagger/libertarian lunkheads who just can't stand the concept of a federal gov't (despite benefitting from it).

 

[The Rabbi]

Reality check to a-typical right wing skewing of the facts (per yet another Koch Brother think tank)

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2011

Unemployment rate demographics, September 2012 : The Editor’s Desk : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

From your own link half the workers making MW are under 25. They are unlikely to be heads of households and most likely to be living at home.
Which is what we've been saying all along. Can you not comprehend this?

So the other half are what, chopped liver? And are you trying to tell me that more money doesn't equate more purchases, which helps out businesses? Or at least one bill getting paid on time, which helps out creditors?

Bottom line: the Heritage Foundation plays fast and loose with the facts to feed red meat to neocon/teabagger/libertarian lunkheads who just can't stand the concept of a federal gov't (despite benefitting from it).

Are you trying to tell me that increasing the min wage won't eliminate jobs? How many theater ushers and gas jockeys have you seen recently? Those were jobs done typically by teens for min wage. But rising min wage rates made them dispensible. So now kids who would have taken those as a stepping stone to something else dont have that opportunity anymore.
The denseness of the liberal is beyond imagination. They think they can legislate propsperity. They can legislate the way criminals behave. They can legislate peace on earth and goodwill towards men.

 

[DiamondDave]

Reality check to a-typical right wing skewing of the facts (per yet another Koch Brother think tank)

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2011

Unemployment rate demographics, September 2012 : The Editor’s Desk : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

From your own link half the workers making MW are under 25. They are unlikely to be heads of households and most likely to be living at home.
Which is what we've been saying all along. Can you not comprehend this?

So the other half are what, chopped liver? And are you trying to tell me that more money doesn't equate more purchases, which helps out businesses? Or at least one bill getting paid on time, which helps out creditors?

Bottom line: the Heritage Foundation plays fast and loose with the facts to feed red meat to neocon/teabagger/libertarian lunkheads who just can't stand the concept of a federal gov't (despite benefitting from it).

And you play fast and hard with those assumptions, like a typical progressive self-appointed-know-it-all..

If it were as simple as you say, all you would have to do is keep raising the minimum wage to a high rate to get the economy booming... it is ridiculous and frankly it is a flat out lie

As for the 'other half'.. as stated so many times.. they are ones who do not do what is necessary and hence do not get what they deem necessary... We have the local mentally challenged boy working at the local restaurant.. got hired there YEARS ago to basically sweep floors.. even he has advanced to be able to do many more things that are valuable to the employer, showed his willingness to do more, work harder, etc.. and he is making enough to live on his own (well, with a room mate), pay his own bills, etc... the difference between him and the 27 year old father of 2 and husband who is complaining about salting fries at the local restaurant and only making minimum wage?? WORK ETHIC

 

[taichiliberal]

From your own link half the workers making MW are under 25. They are unlikely to be heads of households and most likely to be living at home.
Which is what we've been saying all along. Can you not comprehend this?

So the other half are what, chopped liver? And are you trying to tell me that more money doesn't equate more purchases, which helps out businesses? Or at least one bill getting paid on time, which helps out creditors?

Bottom line: the Heritage Foundation plays fast and loose with the facts to feed red meat to neocon/teabagger/libertarian lunkheads who just can't stand the concept of a federal gov't (despite benefitting from it).

Are you trying to tell me that increasing the min wage won't eliminate jobs? How many theater ushers and gas jockeys have you seen recently? Those were jobs done typically by teens for min wage. But rising min wage rates made them dispensible. So now kids who would have taken those as a stepping stone to something else dont have that opportunity anymore.
The denseness of the liberal is beyond imagination. They think they can legislate propsperity. They can legislate the way criminals behave. They can legislate peace on earth and goodwill towards men.

Theater ushers are going the way of the dinosaur because theater ticket prices are ABSURD. Bottom line: in a lousy economy, you have less people to afford an $11 movie ticket, so the theaters cut back on personnel.

In my neighborhood, they've re-established full service at the pump....done by members of the family that own that particular franchise station. Other than that, you have had credit cards/self service replacing the teenager for the last 30 years or so.


See, once you apply reality to neocon/teabagger/libertarian lunkhead talking points and assertions, they just don't stand up to scrutiny.

My posting the reality based sources trumps the Heritage Fund misleading talking points. Deal with it.

 

[velvtacheeze]

It only gives some people more money. Others get less because those jobs won't exist at all.
I realize that's probably too abstract for you to comprehend.

Here's an article that ironically in arguing against the proposition actually proves it.
Teen Unemployment Crisis: Victims of Minimum Wage or Old People - The 312 - July 2011 - Chicago

It's a very hard concept to understand, because it doesn't happen. It's a right wing myth, like Iraq WMD. It does not really exist. For example, Ohio's constitution mandates raises in the min wage, and joblessness has dropped since the Bush Recession's crushing depth's of despair. Of course, Kasich has implausibly taken full credit. What a joke that is.

It's not a hard concept to understand. It's Econ 101, a course you never took because your education ended at 7th grade.

Do you want people to want to work and not depend on the taxpayer? Pay them more! It's either we force greedy businesses to pay them more, or you pay more for siocial programs. Choice is yours.

Cutting social programs and gutting the min wage is not a choice. That's otherwisse known as Romney/Ryan 2012: A sure fire electoral loser.

So pick: More social spending or higher min wage. Which is it?

 

[The Rabbi]

So the other half are what, chopped liver? And are you trying to tell me that more money doesn't equate more purchases, which helps out businesses? Or at least one bill getting paid on time, which helps out creditors?

Bottom line: the Heritage Foundation plays fast and loose with the facts to feed red meat to neocon/teabagger/libertarian lunkheads who just can't stand the concept of a federal gov't (despite benefitting from it).

Are you trying to tell me that increasing the min wage won't eliminate jobs? How many theater ushers and gas jockeys have you seen recently? Those were jobs done typically by teens for min wage. But rising min wage rates made them dispensible. So now kids who would have taken those as a stepping stone to something else dont have that opportunity anymore.
The denseness of the liberal is beyond imagination. They think they can legislate propsperity. They can legislate the way criminals behave. They can legislate peace on earth and goodwill towards men.

Theater ushers are going the way of the dinosaur because theater ticket prices are ABSURD. Bottom line: in a lousy economy, you have less people to afford an $11 movie ticket, so the theaters cut back on personnel.

In my neighborhood, they've re-established full service at the pump....done by members of the family that own that particular franchise station. Other than that, you have had credit cards/self service replacing the teenager for the last 30 years or so.


See, once you apply reality to neocon/teabagger/libertarian lunkhead talking points and assertions, they just don't stand up to scrutiny.

My posting the reality based sources trumps the Heritage Fund misleading talking points. Deal with it.

Even when unemployment was under 7%, i.e. The Bush Years, you didnt have theater ushers. I realize your memory doesnt go back that far, but that's a fact, Jack. If ticket prices are so high then theaters ought to be able to afford more personnel, right? Isn't that what the left keeps telling us?
Yeah, capital displaces labor when the price of labor goes up. Just like the gas pumps you mention. More proof that what I write is correct and you are sadly out of your depth here.

 

[The Rabbi]

It's a very hard concept to understand, because it doesn't happen. It's a right wing myth, like Iraq WMD. It does not really exist. For example, Ohio's constitution mandates raises in the min wage, and joblessness has dropped since the Bush Recession's crushing depth's of despair. Of course, Kasich has implausibly taken full credit. What a joke that is.

It's not a hard concept to understand. It's Econ 101, a course you never took because your education ended at 7th grade.

Do you want people to want to work and not depend on the taxpayer? Pay them more! It's either we force greedy businesses to pay them more, or you pay more for siocial programs. Choice is yours.

Cutting social programs and gutting the min wage is not a choice. That's otherwisse known as Romney/Ryan 2012: A sure fire electoral loser.

So pick: More social spending or higher min wage. Which is it?

You dont seem to understand a simple concept here: it is not "greedy businesses" doing anything. "Greedy businesses" hire people for money and benefits. If you make their cost of labor higher they will not hire anyone. It is not between jobs at $6/hr and jobs at $15/hr. It is between jobs at 6/hr and no job at all. Your choice. You can either have people working independently or have people sitting around getting dat gummint check.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Gas jockeys have been replaced by a thing called computers. Those computers keep track of how much gas is used by doing a number of things called calculations.

Or they were wiped out by y2k.

Or by the increase in bee population making working outside dangerous.

Or...my point is you cannot say that gas jockeys are not around because of min wage no more than you can say it's because of rising bee populations.

 

[The Rabbi]

Gas jockeys have been replaced by a thing called computers. Those computers keep track of how much gas is used by doing a number of things called calculations.

Or they were wiped out by y2k.

Or by the increase in bee population making working outside dangerous.

Or...my point is you cannot say that gas jockeys are not around because of min wage no more than you can say it's because of rising bee populations.

Again, it was cheaper to invest in technology than continue to pay people to do that work. This is because the cost of labor rose, making it less attractive than capital investment.
You prove my point rather than refute it.

 

[candycorn]

Democrats hate poor people who want to be independent of gov't handouts. So they make it increasingly difficult to get off the dole. They really hate black teenagers, which is why their unemployment rate is about 20%.

The Dems want people to be paid more and you conclude that higher pay is how the Dems keep people poor and on welfare.

You do know how fuking stupid that makes you sound. Right?

the problem is, are they getting paid more? The cost of everything will increase, so their net increase will be zero.

So if it doesn't matter, lets just go ahead and raise it.