Hillary: We have got to do something about gun violence in America

[2aguy]

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?

Overlapping mental health records with gun purchases... police flag the guy and visit his home, confiscate his weapons.

Is insomnia a mental health concern that will disqualify someone from owning a gun?

How about if they ever saw a school social worker or psychiatrist?

If someone sees a grief counselor after the death of a loved one, should they be flagged for the background check?

See, we know how you guys think, and we don't trust you. You will use any mental health issue as an excuse to keep people from owning guns, or at least having to go through a lengthy, expensive, time consuming process to get their rights restored.

 

[2aguy]

And you can't sell your gun to a known felon

True. Or any prohibited person known to you to be prohibited. But since people generally dont advertise that fact, and many sellers are criminals themselves and not scrupulous, background checks wont prevent any of those transactions.

The legal requirement for background checks makes the seller liable if he sells a gun to someone who is not eligible to own one.

The buyer knows if they are breaking the law….I am not willing to send innocent people who sell a gun to a criminal to jail, simply because they didn't follow all the laws. To

You want to punish regular people who want to own a gun....that is all you want....more levels of government to trip them up so you can nail them to the wall when they make a mistake...

and the whole time, not one criminal will register one gun and all the mass shooters will get their gun license..and then go murder people...

Licensing and registration are stupid and pointless...unless you want to go after law abiding citizens...then they are magic...

How is making sure you don't sell weapons to criminals punishing you?

You would think you would not want one of your weapons to end up in the hands of a criminal and do everything in your power to stop it....but you don't give a shit

The criminal knows they are breaking the law…and an individual selling one or two of their private, legal products is not the issue. I am not willing to send a widow to jail simply because she didn't realize she needed to do a background check on her son in law to give or sell him her dead husbands gun.

I prefer to have criminals who commit crimes with guns go to jail, and felons caught in possession of guns go to jail.

You want to punish law abiding citizens, I want to stop actual gun criminals.

Selling a gun to a felon or otherwise ineligible person should either be illegal or not. It is either right or wrong.

It should be a federal crime to knowingly sell to a fellon and/or not do a background check even for private sales.

we are not cops….it is not our responsibility to do background checks at our own expense to enforce a law. The criminal already knows if he can't own a gun, so they can just arrest him when they catch him with the gun.

 

[Brain357]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

 

[2aguy]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

 

[Brain357]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

 

[2aguy]

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

The NCVS is not a gun study, and never uses the word gun, or asks about the use of a gun for self defense.

 

[2aguy]

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Brain357]

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

The NCVS is not a gun study, and never uses the word gun, or asks about the use of a gun for self defense.

It is a crime study. You need a crime for a legal dgu. It clearly asks what happened during the crime.

 

[Brain357]

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes most say less than 2 million.

Adjusted for current crime rates they should all be at least 30% less making your 2 million claim more ridiculous.

2 million is not mathematically possible.

 

[2aguy]

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

The NCVS is not a gun study, and never uses the word gun, or asks about the use of a gun for self defense.

It is a crime study. You need a crime for a legal dgu. It clearly asks what happened during the crime.

It doesn't even get the crime numbers right and that is what it is supposed to be studying…..it is worthless.

 

[2aguy]

Again…you forgot the number of unarmed people murdered by their governments when they handed them over to the Germans for their death camps…12 million. Unarmed people who were murdered…add that to the total since that is the primary reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Also, each year law abiding citizens stop violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year….compared to only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.

No matter how you slice it gun crime in the United States is not a problem…we have over 320 million people and only 8,454 gun murders, and that rate is plummeting , it is going down, not up

And more people than ever before own guns and now carry guns for self defense….the gun murder rate is going down, not up. And if you disarm democrats, our gun crime rate would be much lower.

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes most say less than 2 million.

Adjusted for current crime rates they should all be at least 30% less making your 2 million claim more ridiculous.

2 million is not mathematically possible.

I don't say anything, professional researchers in criminology and economics go….

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Brain357]

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

The NCVS is not a gun study, and never uses the word gun, or asks about the use of a gun for self defense.

It is a crime study. You need a crime for a legal dgu. It clearly asks what happened during the crime.

It doesn't even get the crime numbers right and that is what it is supposed to be studying…..it is worthless.

Your 2 million isn't even mathematically possible. It is worthless.

 

[2aguy]

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

The NCVS is not a gun study, and never uses the word gun, or asks about the use of a gun for self defense.

It is a crime study. You need a crime for a legal dgu. It clearly asks what happened during the crime.

It doesn't even get the crime numbers right and that is what it is supposed to be studying…..it is worthless.

Your 2 million isn't even mathematically possible. It is worthless.

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Brain357]

The vast majority of dgu studies say less than 2 million.

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes most say less than 2 million.

Adjusted for current crime rates they should all be at least 30% less making your 2 million claim more ridiculous.

2 million is not mathematically possible.

I don't say anything, professional researchers in criminology and economics go….

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes the vast majority disagree with you and say it is less.

 

[2aguy]

And several of them say it is greater, most say it is about 1.5 million and not one shows it less than 764,000 times a year that a gun is used for self defense.

By several you mean 3. One you can't prove exists, one that wasn't even national, and one debunked many times over.

Meanwhile like 14 say it is less. Ncvs the largest study is 108k. 2 million isn't even mathematically possible based on crime rates and ownership.

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes most say less than 2 million.

Adjusted for current crime rates they should all be at least 30% less making your 2 million claim more ridiculous.

2 million is not mathematically possible.

I don't say anything, professional researchers in criminology and economics go….

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes the vast majority disagree with you and say it is less.

Here you go….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[auditor0007]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

We also have the highest rate of inner city blacks and Hispanics. Get rid of inner city blacks and Hispanics in the gun murder count and our rates look like any of those countries.

So what do you suggest? Gas chambers?

how do you suggest stepping all over our 2nd. Amendment rights?
every time we go through this when there is a shooting like this. You all come in and want to Squash the innocent gun owners over a few nutjobs.

I'm not saying we should or should not be allowed gun ownership. I'm just stating facts based on real statistics. When there are nearly 300 million guns floating around out there, then it means easy access for those whom we do not want having guns.

 

[auditor0007]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

We also have the highest rate of inner city blacks and Hispanics. Get rid of inner city blacks and Hispanics in the gun murder count and our rates look like any of those countries.

So what do you suggest? Gas chambers?

Of course!
No, idiot. But correctly diagnosing the problem instead of posting misleading graphics is a good start. Our problem is not guns but an inner city culture that glorifies violence etc.

So what do you suggest we do about that inner city culture that glorifies violence when they have such easy access to guns?

 

[auditor0007]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.
Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" will keep criminals from getting guns?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out.

Making guns illegal and confiscating all of them would work. It's worked in many countries throughout the world. It won't happen here, but that is the solution. Any more dumb questions?

 

[kaz]

Yes, Comrade Big Guy, we want guns because we don't care about being safe. Thank you for that significant contribution to the discussion

30,000 gun deaths a year is not keeping us safe

The rest of the civilized world shudders at our murder rate, massacres and assasinations

We just lookat the numbers and smirk

Liar…….there are only 8,454 gun murders, 505 accidental gun deaths, and the rest are suicides….you assholes have to add suicides into the mix just to get your number up.

Of course, half the suicides in the country happened without guns….so if we didn't have guns those people would simply use the same method as the other half….

And countries, Japan, China, South Korea, with almost 0 civilian gun ownership have 2 times the rate of suicide as we do……

The number one method of suicide around the world…hanging….



Don't worry, I shudder to think that the most civilized countries in the world rounded up and murdered 12 million innocent men, women, and children in death camps….and they were disarmed.

And only a little over 200 criminals shot and killed. Sounds more anti people than anti crime.

Law abiding people do not execute criminals, they drive them off or hold them for police unless the criminal is really stupid and presses the attack, then they get shot...and out of 2 million defensive uses of guns, on average, each year.....law abiding people only have to kill about 238, and that number is a little low...

Yes I wouldn't call 100x more likely to kill yourself than a criminal anti crime.

First of all your stats are full of crap, second of all you like when people die but most uses of guns by far prevent anyone from getting killed.

But that aside, so your solution even if it were true is to make sure the criminal is the only one armed.

You're just going down in flames no matter how it goes down.

 

[kaz]

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

We also have the highest rate of inner city blacks and Hispanics. Get rid of inner city blacks and Hispanics in the gun murder count and our rates look like any of those countries.

So what do you suggest? Gas chambers?

Of course!
No, idiot. But correctly diagnosing the problem instead of posting misleading graphics is a good start. Our problem is not guns but an inner city culture that glorifies violence etc.

So what do you suggest we do about that inner city culture that glorifies violence when they have such easy access to guns?

Um...guns are illegal in inner cities, Holmes. That means they can't get guns, right? Your whole solution is based on that, let's make it illegal to get guns, then bam, criminals can't get them.

Wait, are you admitting a flaw in your plan??? Like, you know, it doesn't work?