Hillary: We have got to do something about gun violence in America

[Ray From Cleveland]

OK so we're going to send people to jail for acts they did even if they had no idea it was illegal. Works for me, Comrade!

Not my problem

You sell weapons to criminals, you belong in jail. What do you want? sympathy?

So you think sending peopel to jail is OK even if they could have no way of knowing the sale was illegal? Nice. Letting your inner Stalin hang out there, Nutjobber.

Yes I do

You need to find out if he is a criminal, get his information and get him cleared by the local police department. Otherwise, insist your state institute gun owner licenses so you can record his license number before you sell him a gun

Protects you doesn't it? Beats selling your gun to a criminal

nope...you would need a registration process to know if the guy you were selling to was licensed...no deal. and the guy buying the gun...knows if he can do it legally, and when you catch him with a gun he can't have...you can already arrest him.

we are not agents of the state, it is not our job to do background checks on other people. the police can arrest them in possession of the gun if he can't have it...that is all we need.

No you don't.

Have a registration you can go, give your license number and photo ID and buy a gun from a store or private party

Don't have one and you have to go through the local police department and maybe wait a day or two

Your gun.....YOUR responsibility you are not selling to a criminal. If you do, go to jail

Geeze. Should we also have a law that requires the seller of an automobile to check that the buyer has a drivers license and insurance?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It wouldn't save the life of the person he shot, would it dumb fuck?

Doesn't matter

You sell a gun to a criminal, you belong in jail

OK so we're going to send people to jail for acts they did even if they had no idea it was illegal. Works for me, Comrade!

Not my problem

You sell weapons to criminals, you belong in jail. What do you want? sympathy?

So you think sending peopel to jail is OK even if they could have no way of knowing the sale was illegal? Nice. Letting your inner Stalin hang out there, Nutjobber.

Yes I do

You need to find out if he is a criminal, get his information and get him cleared by the local police department. Otherwise, insist your state institute gun owner licenses so you can record his license number before you sell him a gun

Protects you doesn't it? Beats selling your gun to a criminal

So what criminal involved in mass shootings ever purchased a gun this way?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

ok hillary fair enough but what are you libs going to offer in trade for my guns
end food stamps
abortions
anchor babies
the list goes on

The reason we need guns are because of liberals.

If I need to run to my convenience store at night, I'm not worried about a Republican robbing the place, hitting me over the head with a gun, and taking my wallet. Republicans don't do these things.

If I have to make a deposit at my ATM at night, I'm not worried about a conservative squeezing in between my car and the ATM machine, demanding I withdraw the maximum, and taking off with my money. No, no, no. Conservatives don't do things like that; liberals do things like that.

So in order to get rid of guns in our society, we would first have to get rid of liberals. And since that can't be done (Lord knows we've tried) we need our guns to protect ourselves from Democrats.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Thank God these left wing gun grabbing nut jobs are in the minority. That's why they keep getting bitch slapped by the NRA and the 2nd.

Let them rant and rave in their impotence here on a message board, meanwhile in the real world, most people are smarter than that.

That can change unfortunately. If we don't pay attention and allow liberal Presidents to run the show, they can fill the Supreme Court with anti-gun liberals who can rule on taking our guns away. People have to consider Supreme Court nominees when deciding on a President. In fact it should be paramount when considering a President.

 

[turtledude]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Sure, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

Universal Background checks! Assault Weapons bans! Waiting periods!
Never mind none of them would have prevented this. In fact nothing would have prevented this. But libs dont let reality stand in the way of their fantasies.

Incarcerating male blacks from the age of 15 to forty will stop far more crimes than gun bans. Of course that would be unconstitutional but if they are gonna fuck with the constitution at least do SOMETHING that will actually decrease crime

 

[NYcarbineer]

He cannot address the topic so he has to derail the thread. Don't bother with that idiot.

I have him on ignore and allow him to surface only long enough to mock him.
Everyone, including he, knows that he cannot soundly address the issue at hand and must therefore try to lead us away with a red herring.
He hates it, but he knows there's nothing he can do about it.

You cannot come up with one good reason to keep loopholes in the background check laws and yet you defy the support of 90% of Americans to close those loopholes.

That makes you insane.

90% don't understand what anti gunners mean when they say closing the loophole….that would mean I can't lend you a gun at the range because I didn't background check you. I can't sell a gun to a known family member without going to a gun store or the state police for a background check. I can't lend you a rifle for you to go hunting or to try out without a background check.

You guys can't tell the truth if your life depended on it.

And you can't sell your gun to a known felon

True. Or any prohibited person known to you to be prohibited. But since people generally dont advertise that fact, and many sellers are criminals themselves and not scrupulous, background checks wont prevent any of those transactions.

The legal requirement for background checks makes the seller liable if he sells a gun to someone who is not eligible to own one.

 

[turtledude]

I have him on ignore and allow him to surface only long enough to mock him.
Everyone, including he, knows that he cannot soundly address the issue at hand and must therefore try to lead us away with a red herring.
He hates it, but he knows there's nothing he can do about it.

You cannot come up with one good reason to keep loopholes in the background check laws and yet you defy the support of 90% of Americans to close those loopholes.

That makes you insane.

90% don't understand what anti gunners mean when they say closing the loophole….that would mean I can't lend you a gun at the range because I didn't background check you. I can't sell a gun to a known family member without going to a gun store or the state police for a background check. I can't lend you a rifle for you to go hunting or to try out without a background check.

You guys can't tell the truth if your life depended on it.

And you can't sell your gun to a known felon

True. Or any prohibited person known to you to be prohibited. But since people generally dont advertise that fact, and many sellers are criminals themselves and not scrupulous, background checks wont prevent any of those transactions.

The legal requirement for background checks makes the seller liable if he sells a gun to someone who is not eligible to own one.

THE BACKGROUND check requirement imposed on FFLs due to the 'interstate commerce' angle has not caused any decrease in crime in the 22 years it has been in place

 

[turtledude]

Being in the realm of reality helps too. Still waiting for you to show 2 million is even possible.

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....

La times is the highest tell us about the study. How many were surveyed?

Considering it was cited in a peer reviewed work, talk to Dr. Kleck, you can find him at his cite, and email him your question....and all those other studies asshole.....you always choose one study to challenge when there are so many others that confirm the high number of self defense gun uses....

i
Sounds like you don't know much about the study. Kleck has been debunked many times over.

No he hasn't...anti gun extremists lying about his work is not debunking his work...

Its a waste of time to argue crime control with Brain. His reasons for wanting to ban guns has NOTHING TO DO WITH LIMITING CRIME. Brain wants to ban honest people from owning guns because he's a far leftist and the last thing lefties want are armed citizens. Especially ones who vote for Republicans

 

[NYcarbineer]

You cannot come up with one good reason to keep loopholes in the background check laws and yet you defy the support of 90% of Americans to close those loopholes.

That makes you insane.

90% don't understand what anti gunners mean when they say closing the loophole….that would mean I can't lend you a gun at the range because I didn't background check you. I can't sell a gun to a known family member without going to a gun store or the state police for a background check. I can't lend you a rifle for you to go hunting or to try out without a background check.

You guys can't tell the truth if your life depended on it.

And you can't sell your gun to a known felon

True. Or any prohibited person known to you to be prohibited. But since people generally dont advertise that fact, and many sellers are criminals themselves and not scrupulous, background checks wont prevent any of those transactions.

The legal requirement for background checks makes the seller liable if he sells a gun to someone who is not eligible to own one.

THE BACKGROUND check requirement imposed on FFLs due to the 'interstate commerce' angle has not caused any decrease in crime in the 22 years it has been in place

So you would allow a ten year old to buy a machine gun with his paper route money?

 

[turtledude]

90% don't understand what anti gunners mean when they say closing the loophole….that would mean I can't lend you a gun at the range because I didn't background check you. I can't sell a gun to a known family member without going to a gun store or the state police for a background check. I can't lend you a rifle for you to go hunting or to try out without a background check.

You guys can't tell the truth if your life depended on it.

And you can't sell your gun to a known felon

True. Or any prohibited person known to you to be prohibited. But since people generally dont advertise that fact, and many sellers are criminals themselves and not scrupulous, background checks wont prevent any of those transactions.

The legal requirement for background checks makes the seller liable if he sells a gun to someone who is not eligible to own one.

THE BACKGROUND check requirement imposed on FFLs due to the 'interstate commerce' angle has not caused any decrease in crime in the 22 years it has been in place

So you would allow a ten year old to buy a machine gun with his paper route money?

No, and that has nothing to do with the idiotic background checks. I have non problem with people showing an ID to buy a gun. Same with voting.

 

[rightwinger]

Doesn't matter

You sell a gun to a criminal, you belong in jail

OK so we're going to send people to jail for acts they did even if they had no idea it was illegal. Works for me, Comrade!

Not my problem

You sell weapons to criminals, you belong in jail. What do you want? sympathy?

So you think sending peopel to jail is OK even if they could have no way of knowing the sale was illegal? Nice. Letting your inner Stalin hang out there, Nutjobber.

Yes I do

You need to find out if he is a criminal, get his information and get him cleared by the local police department. Otherwise, insist your state institute gun owner licenses so you can record his license number before you sell him a gun

Protects you doesn't it? Beats selling your gun to a criminal

And if I'm a criminal and dont really care who I sell it to? How do you prove I sold it to begin with?

How do you prove anything with a criminal Rabbi?

The sleaze ball you sold the gun to will rat you out once he gets caught

 

[rightwinger]

You want to punish regular people who want to own a gun....that is all you want....more levels of government to trip them up so you can nail them to the wall when they make a mistake...

and the whole time, not one criminal will register one gun and all the mass shooters will get their gun license..and then go murder people...

Licensing and registration are stupid and pointless...unless you want to go after law abiding citizens...then they are magic...

How is making sure you don't sell weapons to criminals punishing you?

You would think you would not want one of your weapons to end up in the hands of a criminal and do everything in your power to stop it....but you don't give a shit

So what law would have worked in this instance of the television shooter? What would have stopped him from getting a firearm?

A common thread with these guys is they are batshit crazy

We need tougher laws to keep guns away from crazies

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You want to punish regular people who want to own a gun....that is all you want....more levels of government to trip them up so you can nail them to the wall when they make a mistake...

and the whole time, not one criminal will register one gun and all the mass shooters will get their gun license..and then go murder people...

Licensing and registration are stupid and pointless...unless you want to go after law abiding citizens...then they are magic...

How is making sure you don't sell weapons to criminals punishing you?

You would think you would not want one of your weapons to end up in the hands of a criminal and do everything in your power to stop it....but you don't give a shit

So what law would have worked in this instance of the television shooter? What would have stopped him from getting a firearm?

A common thread with these guys is they are batshit crazy

We need tougher laws to keep guns away from crazies

But as we've seen, no law would have accomplished this. Are you suggesting that we make laws that have no history of working?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

OK so we're going to send people to jail for acts they did even if they had no idea it was illegal. Works for me, Comrade!

Not my problem

You sell weapons to criminals, you belong in jail. What do you want? sympathy?

So you think sending peopel to jail is OK even if they could have no way of knowing the sale was illegal? Nice. Letting your inner Stalin hang out there, Nutjobber.

Yes I do

You need to find out if he is a criminal, get his information and get him cleared by the local police department. Otherwise, insist your state institute gun owner licenses so you can record his license number before you sell him a gun

Protects you doesn't it? Beats selling your gun to a criminal

And if I'm a criminal and dont really care who I sell it to? How do you prove I sold it to begin with?

How do you prove anything with a criminal Rabbi?

The sleaze ball you sold the gun to will rat you out once he gets caught

Correct which is why responsible gun owners don't sell guns to people they know will cause trouble with them.

 

[auditor0007]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

 

[The Rabbi]

OK so we're going to send people to jail for acts they did even if they had no idea it was illegal. Works for me, Comrade!

Not my problem

You sell weapons to criminals, you belong in jail. What do you want? sympathy?

So you think sending peopel to jail is OK even if they could have no way of knowing the sale was illegal? Nice. Letting your inner Stalin hang out there, Nutjobber.

Yes I do

You need to find out if he is a criminal, get his information and get him cleared by the local police department. Otherwise, insist your state institute gun owner licenses so you can record his license number before you sell him a gun

Protects you doesn't it? Beats selling your gun to a criminal

And if I'm a criminal and dont really care who I sell it to? How do you prove I sold it to begin with?

How do you prove anything with a criminal Rabbi?

The sleaze ball you sold the gun to will rat you out once he gets caught

So? He can say anything he wants. That's not proof of anything.
You're not very good at this, are you?

 

[The Rabbi]

You want to punish regular people who want to own a gun....that is all you want....more levels of government to trip them up so you can nail them to the wall when they make a mistake...

and the whole time, not one criminal will register one gun and all the mass shooters will get their gun license..and then go murder people...

Licensing and registration are stupid and pointless...unless you want to go after law abiding citizens...then they are magic...

How is making sure you don't sell weapons to criminals punishing you?

You would think you would not want one of your weapons to end up in the hands of a criminal and do everything in your power to stop it....but you don't give a shit

So what law would have worked in this instance of the television shooter? What would have stopped him from getting a firearm?

A common thread with these guys is they are batshit crazy

We need tougher laws to keep guns away from crazies

What would you propose? Keep in mind that we are talkiing about stripping constitutional rights from people and that requires a judicial process. It isnt against the law to be weird, off, or eccentric. That's why you're still walking around on the street.

 

[The Rabbi]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

We also have the highest rate of inner city blacks and Hispanics. Get rid of inner city blacks and Hispanics in the gun murder count and our rates look like any of those countries.

 

[auditor0007]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

We also have the highest rate of inner city blacks and Hispanics. Get rid of inner city blacks and Hispanics in the gun murder count and our rates look like any of those countries.

So what do you suggest? Gas chambers?

 

[Stephanie]

“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.

Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.

Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?

When pretty much everyone has the right to as many guns as they want, the people we don't want having guns will have pretty easy access to them also, so we are not going to change this anytime soon. We will continue to have the highest rate of murders by gun of any civilized country in the world.

As we can see, it isn't even close.

We also have the highest rate of inner city blacks and Hispanics. Get rid of inner city blacks and Hispanics in the gun murder count and our rates look like any of those countries.

So what do you suggest? Gas chambers?

how do you suggest stepping all over our 2nd. Amendment rights?
every time we go through this when there is a shooting like this. You all come in and want to Squash the innocent gun owners over a few nutjobs.