Holocaust deniers

[Steven_R]

Interesting how everybody says JOOS are SO smart.
And then they say JOOS are SO stupid for bringing up the Holocaust.
So which one is it?

The Nazis had the same kind of internally contradictory arguments about the Jews. Jewish art was obviously crap and nobody will look at it...but Jewish art needs to be destroyed because it was too powerful for our young to see. Jewish men are weak and physically inferior compared to even good white women...but white men need to be protective of white women because the Jew will overpower and rape our ladies all the time. The Jew has no cunning or intelligence and ugly...but the Jew is cunning and smart and can con the panties off of your women in no time.

Pick and choose the arguments as needed.

 

[Sunni Man]

 

[Pennywise]

That film was a comedy, like a Mel Brooks affair circa 1974.

 

[dilloduck]

I think people are tired of hearing about a lot of things.
But how many people ever really stop kvetching about their pet peeves?

Not nearly enough.

 

[PixieStix]

90% of the Jewish population in Poland alone were killed. 3 million.

2/3 of the Jewish population of Europe - a huge area, a huge number of people.

It can't really be trivialized.

No but it can be falsely promoted as a Jewish only affair.

Maybe the San Francisco folks will open up a museum to start educating people about other millions who were killed merely because of who they were.

[MENTION=18988]PixieStix[/MENTION]

Once again, so you see why.

The entire world's population of Jews was cut in half and the Jews are in the fault for expressing what happened to them because others died as well and they don't register the same outrage that dillo is looking for. Finally the Jewish population is back to pre-wwII populations.

This is why I waited as long as I did. I have a good and long memory.

Almost a Memri...

Why, what Ropey?, I have not even posted in any of the threads you keep mentioning me

 

[dilloduck]

No but it can be falsely promoted as a Jewish only affair.

Maybe the San Francisco folks will open up a museum to start educating people about other millions who were killed merely because of who they were.

[MENTION=18988]PixieStix[/MENTION]

Once again, so you see why.

The entire world's population of Jews was cut in half and the Jews are in the fault for expressing what happened to them because others died as well and they don't register the same outrage that dillo is looking for. Finally the Jewish population is back to pre-wwII populations.

This is why I waited as long as I did. I have a good and long memory.

Almost a Memri...

Why, what Ropey?, I have not even posted in any of the threads you keep mentioning me

I think he's " being a light " unto you.

 

[PixieStix]

How does a human address them? Is ignoring them immoral? Shouldn't they be confronted?

The Holocaust is one of the best documented atrocities in human history. When people deny it...it's usually fairly easy to attack them with facts.

As far as the morality of it? It's an individual choice - where do you draw the line? There are all kinds of atrocities that are covered over - Holocaust, Armenian genocide, Bosnian genocide - etc.

After WWII, Gen. Eisenhower, Churchiil, and Charles de Gaulle, all wrote multi-volumed books about their experiences in the war.

And yet there was not a single mention of the so called Holocaust or gas chambers in their exhaustive memoirs. ..

I see you have turned your reps off for this occasion...

I always neg you for these kind of comments

Just so everyone knows where I stand

 

[Steven_R]

There also wasn't a single mention of Goering in Crusade in Europe. I guess that means Hermann didn't exist.

 

[dilloduck]

There also wasn't a single mention of Goering in Crusade in Europe. I guess that means Hermann didn't exist.

^^ worst analogy ever

 

[Sunni Man]

I see you have turned your reps off for this occasion...

Mods turned it off for rule violation.......I would love to have it turned back on. ....

 

[PixieStix]

I see you have turned your reps off for this occasion...

Mods turned it off for rule violation.......I would love to have it turned back on. ....

I'll get ya when they turn it back on then

 

[Coyote]

Holocaust Denial - I never gave much thought to it before but this thread has been enlightening

This would have been a good topic for CDZ I'm thinking, where it could be fully explored with out the reflexive rhetoric from both sides.

What some people think Holocaust Denial is:

• questioning any part of the commonly accepted narrative of the Holocaust

History is always under revision - new facts come to light, events get re-examined as time puts distance between historians and the event, new interpretations are made, etc. There is nothing wrong with this - history, as they say, is written by the winners. Some folks have real issues with that because it can overturn or modify an accepted "truth".

• using those questions as a vehicle to justify anti-semitism

This would be where intent would come in. There is nothing wrong with asking questions in the interest of honest dialogue. But if the intent is to justify anti-semitic opinions by labeling it a Hoax and placing it in Conspiracy Theory territory in an effort to minimalize what are very well documented atrocities - then is this honest dialogue or a self serving agenda?

• calling any attempt to question the commonly accepted narrative "anti-semitic"

This essentially shuts off dialogue - any dialogue - including historical exploration of the event - by labeling dissenters regardless of intent. It's effective and we see it often with issues of race - example: questioning Obama's policies and you get labeled racist. All this does is drive people into more extreme and defensive positions and shuts down discourse because everyone falls into familiar patterns of name calling and insults regardless of how they may really feel.



Can the official narratives be questioned and discussed and should they be? Of course!!!! Nothing should be off the table if we are to call ourselves a free society.

I remember in a discussion hearing the following based on a book that person had read. (I don't remember the details but this is the gist of it). Hitler did not originally plan to kill all those Jews. His original plan was to round them up and deport them into countries that would accept them. In the interim, they would be held in concentration camps. However - no one would take them, Germany couldn't feed them and they starved, died of disease etc. and he made the decision to exterminate them in gas chambers.

Now - is this a legitimate avenue of questioning? I think so. It indicates how events transpired to the horrific "solution". It does not absolve or "soften" what Hitler did which some would use to indicate he had "no choice".

So what if millions died of starvation/disease rather than in ovens? They are just as dead, and their killers are just as culpable of genocide. At any point in time they could have chosen to release them but they did not.


In my personal opinion - all aspects of the Holocaust should be open for discussion. Once you make it illegal you force it underground. You also "legitimize" the views of people who's real intent is to promote conspiracy theory style bs that they are being persecuted and therefore, their views are "truth" being repressed. These kind of views are self enforcing because they've been placed into an echo chamber. Far better for them to be out in the sunlight and openly rebutted. There are a lot of well documented facts regarding the Holocaust.

In a way, it's kind of like Evolution - and those deniers. There are still gaps in the theory, and details might be controversial but the big picture is accurate and resolving those details isn't going to change it.

With the Holocaust - the big picture, in my view, is a horrific demonstration of what Man can do to his Fellow Man on an unimaginable scale, covering an entire continent, in a supposedly civilized modern era. This should not be lightly overlooked.

 

[Sunni Man]

...........................................^^ Nice post .....

 

[MHunterB]

Polar bear - Please provide links to your assertions. And not someone 'quoting' those periodicals: facsimile of the actual purported content is preferable, or at least a link to the publication's website.

Unfortunately, certain unethical individuals have been known to invent quotes and attribute them to people - but those quotes never actually appear in the primary source the inventor claims.

Not suggesting that you'd do anything so disgusting, only that you may have been taken in by some of the more pretentious pseudo-scholarly sites. If one's not familiar with a field, it's all too easy to be deceived.

 

[Penelope]

The holocaust has been used and abuse at the expense of the German people. Just like Israel went in to Gaza and arrested over 400 Hamas before the battle, and like the US put the Japanese in camps, Germany put restrictions on Jewish movement, with volunteers Judenrats watched them and they were moved into the ghettos.

It does matter if there were gas chambers and if it was premeditated and I do not believe there were gas chambers or premeditated exterminations. Germany against France, Britain, the US and the Soviets, and many mouths to feed. No doubt as the war neared an end, food delivery and mass disorganization became more widespread. The delousing became less important and it became a matter of survival for all involved. Then we have the bombings of camps which also killed many. The Soviets wouldn't let anyone in, as soon as war ended, the cold war started.

I have read many a article that when the Soviets were coming the ones left alive wanted to follow the Germans and did not want to be taken by the Soviets.

There is no WW on now and Gaza needs food and water and the closest people to deliver it is Israel and Israel should at least be allowing trucks to enter which I'm sure they must be. This holocaust stuff has got to stop, what it was was War and we do not need more war.

 

[MHunterB]

The holocaust has been used and abuse at the expense of the German people. Just like Israel went in to Gaza and arrested over 400 Hamas before the battle, and like the US put the Japanese in camps, Germany put restrictions on Jewish movement, with volunteers Judenrats watched them and they were moved into the ghettos.

It does matter if there were gas chambers and if it was premeditated and I do not believe there were gas chambers or premeditated exterminations. Germany against France, Britain, the US and the Soviets, and many mouths to feed. No doubt as the war neared an end, food delivery and mass disorganization became more widespread. The delousing became less important and it became a matter of survival for all involved. Then we have the bombings of camps which also killed many. The Soviets wouldn't let anyone in, as soon as war ended, the cold war started.

I have read many a article that when the Soviets were coming the ones left alive wanted to follow the Germans and did not want to be taken by the Soviets.

There is no WW on now and Gaza needs food and water and the closest people to deliver it is Israel and Israel should at least be allowing trucks to enter which I'm sure they must be. This holocaust stuff has got to stop, what it was was War and we do not need more war.

https://www.google.com/#q=Basic+debating+skills

 

[Penelope]

The holocaust has been used and abuse at the expense of the German people. Just like Israel went in to Gaza and arrested over 400 Hamas before the battle, and like the US put the Japanese in camps, Germany put restrictions on Jewish movement, with volunteers Judenrats watched them and they were moved into the ghettos.

It does matter if there were gas chambers and if it was premeditated and I do not believe there were gas chambers or premeditated exterminations. Germany against France, Britain, the US and the Soviets, and many mouths to feed. No doubt as the war neared an end, food delivery and mass disorganization became more widespread. The delousing became less important and it became a matter of survival for all involved. Then we have the bombings of camps which also killed many. The Soviets wouldn't let anyone in, as soon as war ended, the cold war started.

I have read many a article that when the Soviets were coming the ones left alive wanted to follow the Germans and did not want to be taken by the Soviets.

There is no WW on now and Gaza needs food and water and the closest people to deliver it is Israel and Israel should at least be allowing trucks to enter which I'm sure they must be. This holocaust stuff has got to stop, what it was was War and we do not need more war.

https://www.google.com/#q=Basic+debating+skills

That is my opinion, did I say something you didn't agree with?

 

[MHunterB]

Opinions don't mean anything when not supported by facts and citations. History is about fact, not 'beliefs'. It's not a matter of 'agree/disagree': I'm hard put to find ANYTHING in that post which is factual. One doesn't 'agree/disagree' with facts.

And 'articles' likewise are worthless unless one's readers can see them for themselves. Any jerk can write a rant and post it in a blog: that's not an 'article'. An 'article' is something written by a journalist or other expert who's *researched* their sources and checked their facts. Judging by the 'content' of that post - you don't seem to be reading actual 'articles' in professional historical publications, etc.

So far, virtually nothing you've presented has been a verified fact. Including, btw, that you 'try to live a Christian life'...... You've yet to tell us what kind of Church you attend, or what denomination or teacher you associate yourself with. There are literally thousands of Christian groups, so yes it would help in trying to understand 'where you're coming from'.....

You appear to 'believe' that people who find Nazi Germany disgusting somehow are fond of Communist Russia: I find it difficult to believe you've lived in the USA for some years as an adult without realizing that neither Communism nor Fascism are compatible with the US Constitution (which is all the 'religion' any US citizen need have!).

It's entirely possible to loathe both of those - Communism and Fascism - equally. In fact, that's pretty much how most US citizens regard them.

 

[Coyote]

It does matter if there were gas chambers and if it was premeditated and I do not believe there were gas chambers or premeditated exterminations. Germany against France, Britain, the US and the Soviets, and many mouths to feed. No doubt as the war neared an end, food delivery and mass disorganization became more widespread. The delousing became less important and it became a matter of survival for all involved. Then we have the bombings of camps which also killed many. The Soviets wouldn't let anyone in, as soon as war ended, the cold war started

At any point they could have released people.

They weren't criminals after all.

The fact that they did not but *chose* to let them die or to exterminate them in gas chambers or use them in brutal medical experiments makes it "pre-meditated"

At any point they could have reversed course.

 

[Penelope]

It does matter if there were gas chambers and if it was premeditated and I do not believe there were gas chambers or premeditated exterminations. Germany against France, Britain, the US and the Soviets, and many mouths to feed. No doubt as the war neared an end, food delivery and mass disorganization became more widespread. The delousing became less important and it became a matter of survival for all involved. Then we have the bombings of camps which also killed many. The Soviets wouldn't let anyone in, as soon as war ended, the cold war started

At any point they could have released people.

They weren't criminals after all.

The fact that they did not but *chose* to let them die or to exterminate them in gas chambers or use them in brutal medical experiments makes it "pre-meditated"

At any point they could have reversed course.

He tried to let the jews leave, he had to put them in concentration camps and ghettos as he had to keep an eye on them. During a war that is what countries did. Food was scarce, as you know, the top countries were all in a depression, and Germany after WWI was very depressed with bills to pay. The last article I linked is imp. When Hitler came into power, Judea declared War on him. During the war, every country had food shortages and typhus disease.

Haavara Agreement

The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הסכם העברה Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was signed on 25 August 1933 after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to give up most of their possessions to Germany before departing. Those assets could later be obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods

Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MS St. Louis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , ship turned away at cuba and Miami

1932FifthAliyah
Fifth Aliyah

Jewish boycott of German goods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish boycott of German goods refers to one of the international Jewish responses to the policies of the Nazis.
The boycott started in March 1933 in both Europe and the US.[2] Sources claim it continued until the entry of the US into the war.[3]

Both the Nazis and some outside Germany saw the boycott as an act of aggression, with the UK newspaper the Daily Express going so far as to put as headline: "Judea Declares War on Germany".[2]

The Nazi regime protested internationally and on April 1, 1933, organized a (one day) boycott of Jewish businesses in Germany,[2] which was the first of official anti-Jewish acts by the German government.

The Haavara Agreement, together with lessened dependence on trade with the West, had by 1937 largely negated the effects of the Jewish boycott on Germany.[4] According to a December 1936 article in Time, the Association of German National Jews was then fighting against the Jewish boycott of German goods.[5]

Also during the war where were they to run to, no one else would let them in.