How can there ever be peace here?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Define sovereignty.

Loinboy's claim, ask him.

“ There exists perhaps no conception the meaning of which is more controversial than that of sovereignty. It is an indisputable fact that this conception, from the moment when it was introduced into political science until the present day, has never had a meaning which was universally agreed upon. ”

— Lassa Oppenheim, an authority on international law

Sovereignty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for proving loinboy was wrong.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Ottoman lands were ceded to the Palestinians.

No they weren't. No such people.
Do you want to claim the lands were ceded to the Arabs in the area?

The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The government of Palestine is now the government of Israel.

The government of Israel was created by foreigners against the wishes of the vast majority of Palestinians who were not given the right to vote for their government. They have stayed in power ever since by military force.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The government of Palestine is now the government of Israel.

The government of Israel was created by foreigners against the wishes of the vast majority of Palestinians who were not given the right to vote for their government. They have stayed in power ever since by military force.

Palestinians? Do you mean the Arabs that moved into the area?

 

[Hossfly]

The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The government of Palestine is now the government of Israel.

The government of Israel was created by foreigners against the wishes of the vast majority of Palestinians who were not given the right to vote for their government. They have stayed in power ever since by military force.

I wonder if Tinny can tell us if the Arabs in the area were given the right to vote to have 78% of the mandate given to the Hashemites who come from Saudi Arabia.


JT2

 

[MJB12741]

Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? So who is stealing who's land?

You've got to be pretty retarded to think you can "re-define" something that's been going on for the last 45 years.

I didn't see any "...belong to somebody else..." crap in there.

Maybe you should check your ego at the door?

Israel has controlled the land for the last 45 years.

Who controlled it before?

Sorry if my questions make you feel retarded.

I am not the one retarded.

Military occupation is effective provisional control of a certain power over a territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity...

You need to keep up.

 

[ima]

Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? So who is stealing who's land?

Israel has controlled the land for the last 45 years.

Who controlled it before?

Sorry if my questions make you feel retarded.

I am not the one retarded.

Military occupation is effective provisional control of a certain power over a territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity...

You need to keep up.

I think the UN should kick all the arabs and Jews out of Palestine and start a new peaceful, vegetarian state where all weapons are outlawed. Who's with me?

 

[JStone]

Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? So who is stealing who's land?

I am not the one retarded.



You need to keep up.

I think the UN should kick all the arabs and Jews out of Palestine and start a new peaceful, vegetarian state where all weapons are outlawed. Who's with me?

IMA DUNCE






Israel, not palestine, IMA DUNCE. palestine was a fake Roman name for Israel.

Does Italy own Israel, IMA DUNCE?

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University

The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.

The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.
Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House

PBS...

In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem. Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.

It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible. But, it would not be the death of Judaism. In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.

But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil. They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel has controlled the land for the last 45 years.

Who controlled it before?

Sorry if my questions make you feel retarded.

Your comprehension needs to pick up a bit. I didn't say your "questions make me feel retarded", I said, "YOU got to be pretty retarded to think YOU can re-define..." the occupied territories. Now, stop playing fucking word games and trying to spin this off into something that is completely irrelevant.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war. And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.

 

[Billo_Really]

Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? So who is stealing who's land?

According to the Mandate, they were both given land.

The jews got theirs, so let the arabs have theirs.

Why do people have such a hard time being fair to both sides?

 

[JStone]

Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? So who is stealing who's land?

According to the Mandate, they were both given land.

The jews got theirs, so let the arabs have theirs.

Why do people have such a hard time being fair to both sides?

Gay Boy, You know much about oral copulation but nothing else http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
PBS - Heritage

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah

The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.

PBS Nova ...

In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele. Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.

The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago

Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel has controlled the land for the last 45 years.

Who controlled it before?

Sorry if my questions make you feel retarded.

Your comprehension needs to pick up a bit. I didn't say your "questions make me feel retarded", I said, "YOU got to be pretty retarded to think YOU can re-define..." the occupied territories. Now, stop playing fucking word games and trying to spin this off into something that is completely irrelevant.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war. And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.

I'm sorry if my questions make you appear even more retarded.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war.

Seized? Seized from whom?

And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.

Excellent! When does Germany get back the land they lost in WWI and WWII?

 

[MJB12741]

Yeah right. Like outlawing booze.

Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? So who is stealing who's land?

I am not the one retarded.



You need to keep up.

I think the UN should kick all the arabs and Jews out of Palestine and start a new peaceful, vegetarian state where all weapons are outlawed. Who's with me?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel has controlled the land for the last 45 years.

Who controlled it before?

Sorry if my questions make you feel retarded.

Your comprehension needs to pick up a bit. I didn't say your "questions make me feel retarded", I said, "YOU got to be pretty retarded to think YOU can re-define..." the occupied territories. Now, stop playing fucking word games and trying to spin this off into something that is completely irrelevant.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war. And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.

I'm sorry if my questions make you appear even more retarded.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war.

Seized? Seized from whom?

And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.

Excellent! When does Germany get back the land they lost in WWI and WWII?

Seized? Seized from whom?

Excellent question.

Jordan did not own the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian land. Egypt did not own the Gaza Strip. It was occupied Palestinian land. Israel claims that it won Palestinian land from Jordan and Egypt.

That is an interesting legal concept.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your comprehension needs to pick up a bit. I didn't say your "questions make me feel retarded", I said, "YOU got to be pretty retarded to think YOU can re-define..." the occupied territories. Now, stop playing fucking word games and trying to spin this off into something that is completely irrelevant.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war. And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.

I'm sorry if my questions make you appear even more retarded.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war.

Seized? Seized from whom?

And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.

Excellent! When does Germany get back the land they lost in WWI and WWII?

Seized? Seized from whom?

Excellent question.

Jordan did not own the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian land. Egypt did not own the Gaza Strip. It was occupied Palestinian land. Israel claims that it won Palestinian land from Jordan and Egypt.

That is an interesting legal concept.

Who did Jordan and Egypt seize it from?

You never answered by question about Germany.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm sorry if my questions make you appear even more retarded.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war.

Seized? Seized from whom?

And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.

Excellent! When does Germany get back the land they lost in WWI and WWII?

Seized? Seized from whom?

Excellent question.

Jordan did not own the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian land. Egypt did not own the Gaza Strip. It was occupied Palestinian land. Israel claims that it won Palestinian land from Jordan and Egypt.

That is an interesting legal concept.

Who did Jordan and Egypt seize it from?

You never answered by question about Germany.

They did not seize them from anybody. Egypt and Jordan were not at war with Palestine. The 1949 armistice agreements simply divided Palestine into three areas of occupation claiming that the Palestinian question would be addressed at a later date.

Well it is over sixty years later and still everyone is avoiding the Palestinian question.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Excellent question.

Jordan did not own the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian land. Egypt did not own the Gaza Strip. It was occupied Palestinian land. Israel claims that it won Palestinian land from Jordan and Egypt.

That is an interesting legal concept.

Who did Jordan and Egypt seize it from?

You never answered by question about Germany.

They did not seize them from anybody. Egypt and Jordan were not at war with Palestine. The 1949 armistice agreements simply divided Palestine into three areas of occupation claiming that the Palestinian question would be addressed at a later date.

Well it is over sixty years later and still everyone is avoiding the Palestinian question.

They did not seize them from anybody.

Exactly! Neither did Israel. Glad you realized your mistake.

 

[MJB12741]

Seriously, why do you think Jordan was so happy to refuse Israel's offer to give back the entire West Bank for nothing in return after the 67 war? If & when you know the answer you will then know WHY "the Palestinian question'' was never addressed by Jordan.

Excellent question.

Jordan did not own the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian land. Egypt did not own the Gaza Strip. It was occupied Palestinian land. Israel claims that it won Palestinian land from Jordan and Egypt.

That is an interesting legal concept.

Who did Jordan and Egypt seize it from?

You never answered by question about Germany.

They did not seize them from anybody. Egypt and Jordan were not at war with Palestine. The 1949 armistice agreements simply divided Palestine into three areas of occupation claiming that the Palestinian question would be addressed at a later date.

Well it is over sixty years later and still everyone is avoiding the Palestinian question.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Seriously, why do you think Jordan was so happy to refuse Israel's offer to give back the entire West Bank for nothing in return after the 67 war? If & when you know the answer you will then know WHY "the Palestinian question'' was never addressed by Jordan.

Who did Jordan and Egypt seize it from?

You never answered by question about Germany.

They did not seize them from anybody. Egypt and Jordan were not at war with Palestine. The 1949 armistice agreements simply divided Palestine into three areas of occupation claiming that the Palestinian question would be addressed at a later date.

Well it is over sixty years later and still everyone is avoiding the Palestinian question.

Jordan was always part of the Palestine problem. It was offered the West Bank and millions in cash to not attack Israel in the 1948 war. It did not. It screwed the Palestinians pursuing its own interests. Now its only contribution to peace is echoing the same hollow crap that comes out of the worthless "quartet."

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who did Jordan and Egypt seize it from?

You never answered by question about Germany.

They did not seize them from anybody. Egypt and Jordan were not at war with Palestine. The 1949 armistice agreements simply divided Palestine into three areas of occupation claiming that the Palestinian question would be addressed at a later date.

Well it is over sixty years later and still everyone is avoiding the Palestinian question.

They did not seize them from anybody.

Exactly! Neither did Israel. Glad you realized your mistake.

You're being silly.

 

[ima]

You never answered by question about Germany.

Germany should have had to give up a piece of land to form Israel. The Jews were a European problem, not a Middle Eastern one.