How can there ever be peace here?

[JStone]

Torah: Love thy neighbor as thyself

Quran: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No but since this is the Israel and Palestine board I think it would be more on topic.

The topic was land seized in war.

Indeed.

So when does Germany get back the land seized in war?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The topic was land seized in war.

Indeed.

So when does Germany get back the land seized in war?

So when did Israel get any land?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Indeed.

So when does Germany get back the land seized in war?

So when did Israel get any land?

So when does Germany get back the land seized in war?

 

[JStone]

Indeed.

So when does Germany get back the land seized in war?

So when did Israel get any land?

3000 years ago. No rep points for you


PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
PBS - Heritage

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah

The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.

The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.

 

[Billo_Really]

Why would any of that matter if "it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war"?

International law did not exist until AFTER WWII.

 

[JStone]

Why would any of that matter if "it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war"?

International law did not exist until AFTER WWII.

You know about oral copulation. Law, not so much. http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

The Hague Conventions date back to the late 19th century.

Now, you know

 

[Billo_Really]

You're debating international law with the complete dolt and mental patient Tinhead.

Israel seized land in a defensive war, as opposed to an offensive war, which was not prohibited by law. The loss of territory is a deterrent to initiating war.

In fact, the Arabs pressed the UN to issue a resolution condemning Israel as the aggressor in the war and the UN declined to do so as the consensus was that Israel acted defensively.

You're completely full of shit!

UN Resolution 242 tells the Israeli's to get the fuck out of the OPT!

The preamble refers to the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security."

Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i)Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."​

[/I]

Can you read, dolt-boy?

"inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war"

"Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict"

What part don't you understand, you fucking idiot?

 

[Billo_Really]

The Hague Conventions date back to the late 19th century.

Now, you know

The Hague Convention didn't deal with the topic of "aggression".

 

[JStone]

You're debating international law with the complete dolt and mental patient Tinhead.

Israel seized land in a defensive war, as opposed to an offensive war, which was not prohibited by law. The loss of territory is a deterrent to initiating war.

In fact, the Arabs pressed the UN to issue a resolution condemning Israel as the aggressor in the war and the UN declined to do so as the consensus was that Israel acted defensively.

You're completely full of shit!

UN Resolution 242 tells the Israeli's to get the fuck out of the OPT!

The preamble refers to the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security."

Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i)Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."​

[/I]

Can you read, dolt-boy?

"inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war"

"Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict"

What part don't you understand, you fucking idiot?

No rule in international law forces Israel to forfeit one centimeter of land. Israel seized land in a defensive war, not offensive war, that was not prohibited.

Furthermore, Israel seized land that was a residual territory under the British Mandate establishing the state of Israel

Now, go back to oral copulation http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why would any of that matter if "it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war"?

International law did not exist until AFTER WWII.

Really? None of it?

 

[JStone]

Why would any of that matter if "it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war"?

International law did not exist until AFTER WWII.

Really? None of it?

Well, there are the 1899 Hague Conventions. That was before WW II, I believe.

 

[JStone]

The Hague Conventions date back to the late 19th century.

Now, you know

The Hague Convention didn't deal with the topic of "aggression".

Read, learn...

Legal Scholar, International Law Authority Stephen Schwebel, Former President, International Court of Justice

As a general principle of international law, as that law has been reformed since the League, particularly by the Charter, it is both vital and correct to say that there shall be no weight to conquest, that the acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible. But that principle must be read in particular cases together with other general principles, among them the still more general principle of which it is an application, namely, that no legal right shall spring from a wrong, and the Charter principle that the Members of the United Nations shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State. So read, the distinctions between aggressive conquest and defensive conquest, between the taking of territory legally held and the taking of territory illegally held, become no less vital and correct than the central principle itself.

Those distinctions may be summarized as follows: (a) a State acting in lawful exercise of its right of self-defense may seize and occupy foreign territory as long as such seizure and occupation are necessary to its self *defense; (b) as a condition of its withdrawal from such territory, that State may require the institution of security measures reasonably designed to ensure that that territory shall not again be used to mount a threat or use of force against it of such a nature as to justify exercise of self-defense; (c) where the prior holder of territory had seized that territory unlawfully, the State which subsequently takes that territory in the lawful exercise of self-defense has, against that prior holder, better title.

The facts of the June 1967 "Six Day War" demonstrate that Israel reacted defensively against the threat and use of force against her by her Arab neighbors. This is indicated by the fact that Israel responded to Egypt's prior closure of the Straits of Tiran, its proclamation of a blockade of the Israeli port of Eilat, and the manifest threat of the UAR's use of force inherent in its massing of troops in Sinai, coupled with its ejection of UNEF. It is indicated by the fact that, upon Israeli responsive action against the UAR, Jordan initiated hostilities against Israel. It is suggested as well by the fact that, despite the most intense efforts by the Arab States and their supporters, led by the Premier of the Soviet Union, to gain condemnation of Israel as an aggressor by the hospitable organs of the United Nations, those efforts were decisively defeated. The conclusion to which these facts lead is that the Israeli conquest of Arab and Arab-held territory was defensive rather than aggressive conquest.
Amazon.com: Justice in International Law: Further Selected Writings (9781107005372): Stephen M. Schwebel: Books

Now, run along

 

[MJB12741]

Excellent Tinmore. Now then, will you be so kind as to educate me as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that you claim Israel is occupying?

"Illegal"??? Seems to me my approach is most moral & humane. Let Hamas determine how many Palestinians Israel would have to kill if any.

So Tinmore, tell us what you would do for peace from Palestinians if you were Israeli prime minister? Would you give them everything they demand so they can kill even more Israeli's & continue their vow to annihilate Israel off the face of the earth? Come on Tinmore, you can do it.

Of course that would be illegal. Israel paid heavily for killing "only" a thousand civilians in cast lead. Every time Israel does something stupid it loses legitimacy on the world stage.

Israel needs to end its occupation of Palestine.

 

[JStone]

Excellent Tinmore. Now then, will you be so kind as to educate me as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that you claim Israel is occupying?

"Illegal"??? Seems to me my approach is most moral & humane. Let Hamas determine how many Palestinians Israel would have to kill if any.

So Tinmore, tell us what you would do for peace from Palestinians if you were Israeli prime minister? Would you give them everything they demand so they can kill even more Israeli's & continue their vow to annihilate Israel off the face of the earth? Come on Tinmore, you can do it.

Israel needs to end its occupation of Palestine.

Palestine was invented by Roman pagans to call Israel during the Roman Empire.

There is no Palestine. The correct historical name of the land is Israel since 3000 years ago.

Old Testament

Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.

”
New Testament

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, “Hosanna! “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! “Blessed is the king of Israel!”

Quran

Quran 10:93 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them.

 

[MJB12741]

Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.

Excellent Tinmore. Now then, will you be so kind as to educate me as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that you claim Israel is occupying?

Israel needs to end its occupation of Palestine.

Palestine was invented by Roman pagans to call Israel during the Roman Empire.

There is no Palestine. The correct historical name of the land is Israel since 3000 years ago.

Old Testament
”
New Testament

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, “Hosanna! “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! “Blessed is the king of Israel!”

Quran

Quran 10:93 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them.

 

[JStone]

Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.

Excellent Tinmore. Now then, will you be so kind as to educate me as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that you claim Israel is occupying?

Palestine was invented by Roman pagans to call Israel during the Roman Empire.

There is no Palestine. The correct historical name of the land is Israel since 3000 years ago.

Old Testament
”
New Testament

Quran

Quran 10:93 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them.

Solomon's Temple built ca 960 BCE. al aqsa mosque built ca. 715 CE, about 1700 years later.

The Quran acknowledges Solomon's Temple was built first, in its own weird way.

38:30 To David We gave Solomon (for a son),- How excellent in Our service! Ever did he turn (to Us)!

38:34 And We did try Solomon: We placed on his throne a body (without life); but he did turn (to Us in true devotion):

38:35 He said, "O my Lord! Forgive me, and grant me a kingdom which, (it may be), suits not another after me: for Thou art the Grantor of Bounties (without measure).

17:7 If ye did well, ye did well for yourselves; if ye did evil, (ye did it) against yourselves. So when the second of the warnings came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Temple as they had entered it before, and to visit with destruction all that fell into their power.

34:12 And to Solomon (We made) the Wind (obedient): Its early morning (stride) was a month's (journey), and its evening (stride) was a month's (journey); and We made a Font of molten brass to flow for him; and there were Jinns that worked in front of him, by the leave of his Lord, and if any of them turned aside from our command, We made him taste of the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

34:13 They worked for him as he desired, (making) arches, images, basons as large as reservoirs, and (cooking) cauldrons fixed (in their places): "Work ye, sons of David, with thanks! but few of My servants are grateful!"

38:20 We strengthened his kingdom, and gave him wisdom and sound judgment in speech and decision.

 

[ima]

Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.

What happened 3000 years ago is irrelevant, because why not go further back and say 12,000 years ago, there were no jews, so therefore, no claim to anything. See how your bogus arguments can bite you in your ball?

 

[JStone]

Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.

What happened 3000 years ago is irrelevant, because why not go further back and say 12,000 years ago, there were no jews, so therefore, no claim to anything. See how your bogus arguments can bite you in your ball?

IMA DUNCE




Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History


Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago. With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews. Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital. It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees. The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography. It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem. Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community. Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250. Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions. Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue . During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community. there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert'sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]

 

[MJB12741]

HUH??? All of today's history would not be what it is without the history of the past. Think man, think for a change. And then tell me when Israel began stealing "Palestinian land."

Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias. Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.

What happened 3000 years ago is irrelevant, because why not go further back and say 12,000 years ago, there were no jews, so therefore, no claim to anything. See how your bogus arguments can bite you in your ball?