Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
What do you think?
Oh, what is the underlying crime? Seems apparently you only know this, many other people aren’t so clearBut as you know ( because it has been pointed out about fifteen fucking times) there IS an “underlining crime”
Stop acting stupid
Is there? Bragg hasn’t revealed it, the media doesn’t seem very certain, even left wing media. I know what you all claim is the underlying crime, but until Bragg actually says what it is, trump is being unfairly indicted, because he doesn’t know exactly, from the DA, where the charges derive from.
Oh, what is the underlying crime? Seems apparently you only know this, many other people aren’t so clear
What “lefty news” is saying that?
Are they as stupid as you?
amp.cnn.com
That will require his team to show that the records were falsified with the intent to conceal or further another crime, yet Tuesday's court papers provided only a little clarity on how Bragg intends to establish an underlying crime.
But given the monumental stakes of the case and how it seems to rest on a novel theory for bringing felony charges, critics say the public would have been better served with more detail.
I'm not saying there isn't a hint of what the other crime is," said Robert Kelner, a defense attorney who specializes in political and election law. "But when you have this weird local statute -- in which to prove one crime, you have to show he intended to commit another -- you think you'd be very specific."
Exactly what this underlying crime was is not specified in the indictment itself, but rather teased in an accompanying statement of facts and in prosecutors' remarks Tuesday.
The district attorney's theory, as well as the lack of transparency around how Bragg intends to lay it out, is raising concern about whether the case will stand up in court.
www.latimes.com
Manhattan Dist. Atty. Alvin Bragg’s indictmentof former President Trump takes an open-ended approach to the charges
A key question in advance of Tuesday’s unsealing of the indictment concerned how Bragg would augment the easily proven misdemeanor charges of falsifying business records……Bragg’s answer was essentially “I’ll tell you later.”
Bragg may have to pick his crime down the line, perhaps in answer to an expected defense motion for a “bill of particulars” — that is, a fleshing out of the Delphic indictment to enable Trump’s team to prepare an appropriate defense.
On the other hand, the prosecutor may not have to specify a second crime. The jury instructions on falsification of business records say it’s a felony if the defendant acted “with intent to defraud that included an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.” It’s therefore not clear that they require the jury even to agree on what the augmenting crime is.
All reasonable questions which I'm sure will be addressed in the coming months.
But as I've said before, we are at the Grand Jury indictment, DA charging and arraignment phase. My understanding is that under New York State law the indictment must layout the charges and the basis of those charges. There is no requirement that the indictment layout the entire legal theory, only the justification as to the direct charges.
The defendant has been informed of what he has been charged with, it's Section 175.10 of the New York State Penal Code and the actions that directly relate to those violations.
Now whether your legal theory that the indictment is defective because it doesn't layout the DA's case was to why Cohen's crimes are the basis? We shall see and you can guarantee Trump's defense lawyers will bring that up as part of the Motion to Dismiss. However since the link was clearly indicated in the Statement of Facts that the defendant received when the indictment was unsealed, I doubt such a challenge will be successful. So to say the defendant was not informed is on it's face incorrect.
WW
My understanding is that under New York State law the indictment must layout the charges and the basis of those charges
What the media want's is all the information to be made public right now.
That isn't how criminal trials work. The DA will present it to the court at the correct time and place. Then the court will review the motions by the defense and rebuttal from the DA's office and make a ruling.
My daughter was involved with prosecuting a sexual assault case that took well over 2-years. And most of that was motions by the defense for dismissal, challenging of evidence, challenging of witnesses and experts.
They say the wheels of justice grind slowly.
WW
What the media want's is all the information to be made public right now.
I mean, these statement seem to indicate that even the media, even those on the left, are not entirely sure what the underlying crime is.
No, the indictment is for a felony.
Without the connection to Cohen's illegal activity the crime would be a misdemeanor. But we all know what the underlaying crime is which justifies the felony level charges, they are referred to in the Statement of Facts filed with the court and unsealed with the indictment.
WW
Why New York’s hush money case against Donald Trump is viewed as risky | CNN Politics
The case that Manhattan prosecutors have brought against former President Donald Trump for allegedly falsifying business records to disguise hush money payments related to the 2016 campaign presents novel legal questions that make the prosecution risky – but not impossible – legal experts say.
CNN is doing their usual “both sides”
Meh
You only seem focused on the one side
Meh
Column: Don't underestimate the strengths of Alvin Bragg's case against Donald Trump
The Manhattan district attorney pointed to new evidence that the payment to Stormy Daniels was meant to break campaign finance and even tax law.
I mean, these statement seem to indicate that even the media, even those on the left, are not entirely sure what the underlying crime is.
It’s a good thing he has you to tell him what he should have done huh?But that’s just it, when asked, Bragg refused to name the underlying crime. If the SOF was indeed the crime he’s using, the he should have pointed at that document and said so. He didn’t, and that leads people to wonder what the crime is. Is it the SOF? Or is it some, yet to be named, crime that he’s holding out on?
Exactly what I’m saying. We don’t need any legal theory, we just need the indictment and whatever crime they are alleging they used to create the felony used to get that indictment. That’s all
Sure he does. Section 175.10 of the New York Penal Code, Falsification of Business Records in the First Degree. Those are the only charges under which Trump has been charged. The underlying crime is Cohen's, Trump has not and will not be charged for Cohen's crime because Cohen's was Federal campaign finance violations and Bragg (as a local DA) can't charge Federal crimes.
WW
Nothing needs to be “cleared up “I think it’s a separate document that has no meaning to the indictment unless Bragg says those are the underlying crimes he used.
I don’t understand why that is such a hard thing. Just spell out explicitly what the underlying crime is. It’s not hard and it would clear up a lot.
But that’s just it, when asked, Bragg refused to name the underlying crime. If the SOF was indeed the crime he’s using, the he should have pointed at that document and said so. He didn’t, and that leads people to wonder what the crime is. Is it the SOF? Or is it some, yet to be named, crime that he’s holding out on?
Ok, so then Bragg has no case. The only way 175.10 becomes a felony is if it is done with the intent to commit or conceal a crime or furtherance of a crime.
Media talking heads want more detail now to fill news minutes. "Video at 11."
In other news, scientists have determined that water is wet.
.
.
.
.
Seriously this is a case working it's way through the judicial system. Have patience, it will be a long row to hoe.
On the other hand if Bragg released all the evidence he has, then the talking heads would be complaining that her released TO MUCH information.
:ROFL:
WW
It’s a good thing he has you to tell him what he should have done huh?
You DO know that the State of NY doesn’t require that though
Right?
Please respond to that last
Lol, and we came back to the start. If the SOF is indeed the underlying crime, then why hasn’t Bragg said so?
