How can Trump be charged federally in a state court?

[ThisIsMe]

No games. It is not required.

End of story

Again, I understand that, but to not include the crime in the indictment is a bit suspect, almost like he is trying to pull something. There has to be a reason for it, in a case this high profile, you don’t do anything without a reason.

The fact that he doesn’t want to name the crime, that apparently everyone already knows, would lead some to believe he intends to spring a surprise at the last minute.

If there is nothing suspect going on, then it wouldn’t have made any difference to just add the crime to the indictment.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The indictment is not that Trump committed Cohen’s crime. It’s that he aided in the concealment of Cohen’s crime which is what raised Trumps Business Tecord crime to a felony.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Not saying that Trump will be convicted, but that is the logic of the charge.

WW

Not true. Where are you getting this bullshit? Are you making this up as you go? Many highly respected lawyers have stated repeatedly that there is no case and you are wrong.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, the allegation is that they falsified the reason for the payments to cohen. They listed the payments as “legal expenses” but in fact they were for the repayment of the hush money payment, which is a campaign finance violation.

So, each time they made a payment and labeled it as “legal expenses”, they did so to conceal the payment true purpose, which was a campaign finance violation, and thus the 34 counts. At least that’s the understanding I have

There was and is no campaign finance violation because that would federal law, and the FEC and DOJ declined to prosecute Trump.

 

[Cellblock2429]

That’s the thing I don’t get. Why didn’t Bragg just indict him for campaign finance violations? I mean, that’s what this all boils down to. Why go the round about way with the concealment angle?

/----/ Mainly because a NY City DA can't indict someone on federal charges.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That’s the thing I don’t get. Why didn’t Bragg just indict him for campaign finance violations? I mean, that’s what this all boils down to. Why go the round about way with the concealment angle?

Because that is federal law, which is out of Bragg's jurisdiction.

 

[Lesh]

Again, I understand that, but to not include the crime in the indictment is a bit suspect, almost like he is trying to pull something. There has to be a reason for it, in a case this high profile, you don’t do anything without a reason.

The fact that he doesn’t want to name the crime, that apparently everyone already knows, would lead some to believe he intends to spring a surprise at the last minute.

If there is nothing suspect going on, then it wouldn’t have made any difference to just add the crime to the indictment.

Apparently you DON’T understand it.

It’s not required. Period

He doesn’t have to satisfy you.

 

[Lesh]

Because that is federal law, which is out of Bragg's jurisdiction.

You seem confused

 

[Lesh]

/----/ Mainly because a NY City DA can't indict someone on federal charges.

Nor has he tried to

 

[ThisIsMe]

There was and is no campaign finance violation because that would federal law, and the FEC and DOJ declined to prosecute Trump.

So, they are saying the hush money payment was a campaign contribution, which exceeds the normal limit, that’s where they get the violation. Daniels not talking about the affair was a benefit to the campaign, and the payment for that benefit was excessive for normal contribution limits.

But as you said, that’s a federal law violation, but trump paying cohen and listing it as legal expenses is a New York accounting law violation, but because that violation was done to conceal a federal campaign finance violation, it makes the incorrect entries in the ledger an attempt to defraud by concealing their true nature as payments to reimburse for a federal crime, which makes those ledger entries a felony.

That’s how I understand it anyway.

So, you’re saying the payments to Daniels are not considered campaign contributions?

 

[Cellblock2429]

Nor has he tried to

/-----/ GEEEZE - you're jumping in the middle of a thread. I was replying to post #164
ThisIsMe said:
That’s the thing I don’t get. Why didn’t Bragg just indict him for campaign finance violations?

 

[Lesh]

/-----/ GEEEZE - you're jumping in the middle of a thread. I was replying to post #164
ThisIsMe said:
That’s the thing I don’t get. Why didn’t Bragg just indict him for campaign finance violations?

Because that’s a federal crime and Bragg has state jurisdiction.

Bragg indicted because these state crimes become felonies when they are done to facilitate other felonies. And we know those are felonies because Cohen was convicted for them

 

[mudwhistle]

Trump was named as Cohen’s “unindicted co-conspirator”. Named “individual 1”.

Of course. Because they were holding over 60 years in prison over his head.
He told his lawyer he had nothing on Trump....but the FBI scared him into a suicidal state that made him willing to sign any bull shit statement they put in front of him.
The result was 2 years under house arrest instead of a 60 year incarceration.

 

[mudwhistle]

Because that’s a federal crime and Bragg has state jurisdiction.

Bragg indicted because these state crimes become felonies when they are done to facilitate other felonies. And we know those are felonies because Cohen was convicted for them

No....once again for the incredibly stupid.....Cohen pled guilty to concealing $4 million in unreported income and $280k in unlawful campaign donations.
Trump is being charged with 34 document errors.

 

[Lesh]

No....once again for the incredibly stupid.....Cohen pled guilty to concealing $4 million in unreported income and $280k in unlawful campaign donations.
Trump is being charged with 34 document errors.

Hey dipshit...those campaign donations were illegally repaid to Cohen by Trump. That is what this is about

 

[ThisIsMe]

/----/ Mainly because a NY City DA can't indict someone on federal charges.

Ahh, so they used a state crime intended to conceal campaign finance laws which makes the state law violation a felony.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is derived from falsifying business records in the second degree when done to conceal or further a crime. Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class e felony in New York.

So, because trump falsified the logs, to cover up the payments to cohen, which was a campaign finance violation, it would be akin to trump falsifying logs to cover a campaign finance violation, which they are saying is a felony.

So, if this is really what it is, then why not just have trump pay a fine, like Hillary had to do?

 

[Lakhota]

I mean why isn't t he media talking about this?

Why Trump indictment might hinge on a 'novel legal theory'

Former President Donald Trump's indictment may present an untested legal challenge if prosecutors try to charge him with campaign finance law violations in state court.

abcnews.go.com

 

[ThisIsMe]

Apparently you DON’T understand it.

It’s not required. Period

He doesn’t have to satisfy you.

I never said he did, I’m just saying, not including the crime in the indictment seems odd, that’s just my opinion, I just don’t see why it was a big deal for him to list the crime, so everything would be out in the open. What’s he hiding?

 

[Cellblock2429]

I never said he did, I’m just saying, not including the crime in the indictment seems odd, that’s just my opinion, I just don’t see why it was a big deal for him to list the crime, so everything would be out in the open. What’s he hiding?

/---/How are Trump's lawyers supposed to mount a defense without knowing the crime?

 

[mudwhistle]

Hey dipshit...those campaign donations were illegally repaid to Cohen by Trump. That is what this is about

No dipshit.
They're saying that Trump's retainer checks to Michael Cohen weren't campaign donations.
There was nothing illegal about the payments.
Paying for an NDA from some slut who's extorting money from you isn't against the law.
If anything Stormy Daniels committed extortion.
Trump simply refused to press any charges against her.

extortion

Definition of extortion in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

 

[ThisIsMe]

/---/How are Trump's lawyers supposed to mount a defense without knowing the crime?

Well, that’s kind of the crux of it. Some here would lead you to believe that the statement of facts lists the crimes alleged, but Bragg doesn’t actually say that. He just says he isn’t required to specify, which leads me to believe that he has something brewing that he is going to drop later.

If the crimes listed in the SOF were indeed the crimes that Bragg was pointing to, he could have easily just said so, it would have been no big deal.

But catch this:

The dubious legal theory at the heart of the Trump indictment, explained

www.vox.com

This is the second article I’ve seen (the other from CNN) that both claim that Braggs case is based on a shaky foundation. I mean, if vox is skeptical about it, that should tell you something.

In their article, even they claim that it is not sure if Bragg can use the cover up of a federal crime as a way to convert a state misdemeanor into a felony.