How come when there is a shooting, idiots say we need to ban guns and the NRA

[Vandalshandle]

Horrible what happened in Oregon, BUT the same amount of people and more are killed every weekend in Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, D.C., and other black ghetto areas and NOTHING is said and done by the fake Negro in the White House, or the DemocRATS in charge of those cities! All of them have the strictest of gun laws, and they do nothing...it's simply THE PEOPLE that are fucked up and need to be eradicated from this society...Not all of them, but a damn big part of them!

True, but you can't lock people up because they are weird like this shooter in Oregon. We all know people who are a little strange. We can't be like the thought police in the book 1984.

But this is what happens when you take God out of society. This nut case was anti-religious. He selected who he was going to kill based on their religious beliefs. Obviously he wasn't raised in a religious household himself.

Oh, please Ray, spare us the religious lecture.....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Horrible what happened in Oregon, BUT the same amount of people and more are killed every weekend in Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, D.C., and other black ghetto areas and NOTHING is said and done by the fake Negro in the White House, or the DemocRATS in charge of those cities! All of them have the strictest of gun laws, and they do nothing...it's simply THE PEOPLE that are fucked up and need to be eradicated from this society...Not all of them, but a damn big part of them!

True, but you can't lock people up because they are weird like this shooter in Oregon. We all know people who are a little strange. We can't be like the thought police in the book 1984.

But this is what happens when you take God out of society. This nut case was anti-religious. He selected who he was going to kill based on their religious beliefs. Obviously he wasn't raised in a religious household himself.

I'm agnostic, but 9 out of 10 times stand with my brothers of faith, as their morals, ethics, and principles are also mine. Perhaps if HLS watched the atheists and religion haters as they do the patriots in the militias, and RETURNING VETS, we might be able to catch a few...although most of the religious haters could blow up at any time!

Well that's good you think like your brothers. I just remember a more peaceful time in our country. When I went to school, they didn't even bother locking the doors yet alone need metal detectors. You never heard of mass shootings like you do in this (and other) particular case. As a child, we used to go to sleep at night with the front door wide open so the screen door could let some fresh summer air in the house. The entire time growing up, my father never owned a gun.

Fast forward to today, we have to ask what changed throughout the years, and all I can say is religion; not any particular religion, just the belief in God himself.

I too am agnostic, but I was born in a Catholic household. You were raised to believe that God is always watching over you. Sure, you can steal a candy bar from the corner store and get away with it, but you can't get away from God. Even if you don't pay for your sins now, you will pay later.

Religion teaches you not to worry so much about this life; this life means nothing. It's the next life you need to worry about. So in general, the fear of God is what kept most people in line. If you were not raised that way or otherwise believe that when you die, you just go to black, then what do you have to lose if you have a chip on your shoulder about something? There's nothing to be scared of.

 

[JoeB131]

Remember that any spending comes from Congress which happened to be Democrat under Reagan. If there were any cuts, Democrats made them. But I assure you that this started before Reagan.

Amazing how republicans are never responsible when they are in charge.

frankly, never saw a homeless person before Ronnie Ray-gun was president.

As far as other countries go, we are much different in many ways. On this subject of weapons, we are much more diverse than most countries. Some of our cultures are much more violent than others. The demographics are clear on this.

Why is it when it is pointed out that EVERY other industrialized country has gun control and EVERY last one of them has really low crime rates, you gun fetishists try to blame everything EXCEPT the easy access to guns in this country.

Occam's Razor, baby. The most obvious answer is usually the right one.

Or when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

Other countries also have laws against recreational narcotics just like the US. So why are drugs such a huge problem here compared to other industrialized worlds? We have the second highest percentage of our population locked up, most of them because of drugs. Drugs have been illegal to sell and use as long as I've been alive. If anything, it seems there are more drugs today than ever.

Drugs are a huge problem here because those other countries treat addiction like a medical problem. We treat it as a criminal one.

I should also point out that a lot of drugs that are abused are manufactured legally.

The Bush tax cuts did create jobs. In fact, my employer purchased an entire new fleet of trucks. Our customers invested in machinery--some that cost them over a million dollars. Others added on to their existing buildings or otherwise opened up satellite warehouses. It was a great time, and if not for the housing bubble and collapse, I believe we would have enjoyed a good economy right up to Bush's last day in office.

Actually, Bush was the only president since Hoover to preside over a net job LOSS. so, uh, no. Bush fucked up the economy like he fucked up, well, everything.

 

[JoeB131]

Well that's good you think like your brothers. I just remember a more peaceful time in our country. When I went to school, they didn't even bother locking the doors yet alone need metal detectors. You never heard of mass shootings like you do in this (and other) particular case. As a child, we used to go to sleep at night with the front door wide open so the screen door could let some fresh summer air in the house. The entire time growing up, my father never owned a gun.

When was this.

I grew up in the late 1960's and 1970's, when we had race riots. during the Oil Crisis, my dad had to put a lock on his car's gas cap to keep people from siphoning it out because they didn't want to pay a whopping .80 a gallon for it.

The only reason why we have 'Mass shootings" is because the gun industry you love so much is marketing military grade weapons to crazy people.

 

[Bassman007]

Well that's good you think like your brothers. I just remember a more peaceful time in our country. When I went to school, they didn't even bother locking the doors yet alone need metal detectors. You never heard of mass shootings like you do in this (and other) particular case. As a child, we used to go to sleep at night with the front door wide open so the screen door could let some fresh summer air in the house. The entire time growing up, my father never owned a gun.

When was this.

I grew up in the late 1960's and 1970's, when we had race riots. during the Oil Crisis, my dad had to put a lock on his car's gas cap to keep people from siphoning it out because they didn't want to pay a whopping .80 a gallon for it.

The only reason why we have 'Mass shootings" is because the gun industry you love so much is marketing military grade weapons to crazy people.

Yes Joe no one wants to ban guns because you say so. Please take your medicine now.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Oh, there is nothing wrong with selling guns to crazy people. What the hell, they sell rifles for kids. You can get a pretty pink one for your little girl to match "my Little Pony"

PHOTOS: Here's how the rifle that just killed a 2-year-old girl is marketed for kids

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well that's good you think like your brothers. I just remember a more peaceful time in our country. When I went to school, they didn't even bother locking the doors yet alone need metal detectors. You never heard of mass shootings like you do in this (and other) particular case. As a child, we used to go to sleep at night with the front door wide open so the screen door could let some fresh summer air in the house. The entire time growing up, my father never owned a gun.

When was this.

I grew up in the late 1960's and 1970's, when we had race riots. during the Oil Crisis, my dad had to put a lock on his car's gas cap to keep people from siphoning it out because they didn't want to pay a whopping .80 a gallon for it.

The only reason why we have 'Mass shootings" is because the gun industry you love so much is marketing military grade weapons to crazy people.

I grew up in the same era, and you're going to compare kids stealing gasoline to killing multiple people in a school for no reason?

I didn't say the 60's and 70's were perfect, but they were never anything like this. People had guns or access to them back then, but nobody ever needed them except for hunting.

What you on the left don't get is that it's not guns--it's the people. Of course back then, prisons were real prisons, not someplace where you have a workout room, a library, a football field and sit around watching cable all day long. A few years back, one prisoner tried to get out of execution because he was so fat they couldn't find the vein to inject him with. How do you get so fat in jail for crying out loud?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Remember that any spending comes from Congress which happened to be Democrat under Reagan. If there were any cuts, Democrats made them. But I assure you that this started before Reagan.

Amazing how republicans are never responsible when they are in charge.

frankly, never saw a homeless person before Ronnie Ray-gun was president.

As far as other countries go, we are much different in many ways. On this subject of weapons, we are much more diverse than most countries. Some of our cultures are much more violent than others. The demographics are clear on this.

Why is it when it is pointed out that EVERY other industrialized country has gun control and EVERY last one of them has really low crime rates, you gun fetishists try to blame everything EXCEPT the easy access to guns in this country.

Occam's Razor, baby. The most obvious answer is usually the right one.

Or when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

Other countries also have laws against recreational narcotics just like the US. So why are drugs such a huge problem here compared to other industrialized worlds? We have the second highest percentage of our population locked up, most of them because of drugs. Drugs have been illegal to sell and use as long as I've been alive. If anything, it seems there are more drugs today than ever.

Drugs are a huge problem here because those other countries treat addiction like a medical problem. We treat it as a criminal one.

I should also point out that a lot of drugs that are abused are manufactured legally.

The Bush tax cuts did create jobs. In fact, my employer purchased an entire new fleet of trucks. Our customers invested in machinery--some that cost them over a million dollars. Others added on to their existing buildings or otherwise opened up satellite warehouses. It was a great time, and if not for the housing bubble and collapse, I believe we would have enjoyed a good economy right up to Bush's last day in office.

Actually, Bush was the only president since Hoover to preside over a net job LOSS. so, uh, no. Bush fucked up the economy like he fucked up, well, everything.

Bull. The job losses didn't come until after the housing collapse. Bush did a great job considering we suffered the worst attack on our soil since the founding of this country.

http://m3.i.pbase.com/o6/10/152510/1/140963563.x5oZti2W.TotEmpGW.JPG

As far as guns go, you could fill Australia and Japan with guns and they would still have the same society. In fact, Australia has seen no difference in crime since they instituted their gun ban.

Australia Model -- Obama's Proposal | National Review Online

 

[Vandalshandle]

Baby Bush narrowly escaped being the worst president in my lifetime, only because Nixon was even worse.

 

[Campbell]

But when Muslims fly jets into the Twin Towers killing thousands of people, the defenders of life do not say ban Muslims.

First....nobody advocates banning all guns. The only smart thing to do is to require background checks and try to prevent the mentally insane and criminals from getting their hands on complete arsenals. I can go to the parking lot at a gun show and buy automatic weapons, 100 round magazines, bazookas, hand grenades and armor piercing ammunition. That's so fucked up it's insane. 'Course INSANE describes most gun nuts so everything fits. The self obsessed NRA doesn't have to advertise.....they have over 100 million gun nuts locked in and with no background checks or effective gun laws they've got it made. Americans should get a little suspicious......we're the only industrialized nation in the world with as few gun laws or restrictions as we have and also the only industrialized nation which has to report another mass killing of innocent, unsuspecting citizens every few months. There's something wrong with that.....very wrong.

As far as Muslims......all people of the Muslim persuasion are not guilty just because a few of them are insane. You had better hope they don't start judging all Christians by the same rule as we judge a few:

Mark 16:

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover:

The Bible never tells the Believers to practice snake handling. The Bible is clear that we are not to put God to any foolish tests, Campbell. As you are a Catholic, you should know that your attempt to make Christians appear as extremists is something your Pope is also attempting to do from behind the scenes.

Buy a King James Bible and look up the story of Paul being bitten by the viper. He didn't handle it. He shook it off. Jesus was very clear that some vipers have two legs (those who oppose him and his Believers) . You should also know that God counts it a righteous thing to recompense with tribulation those who trouble his children. Be careful, Campbell.

I'm atheist/agnostic. I don't believe any of that unadulterated bullshit. By the way....if you don't understand that scripture saying "them that believe will pick up serpents" just how do you discard it?

verbatim:

Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover:

 

[Vandalshandle]

Let's put God back into our society?

 

[Flopper]

But when Muslims fly jets into the Twin Towers killing thousands of people, the defenders of life do not say ban Muslims.

Stop listening to idiots. And stop sounding like an idiot by creating strawman threads built around the words of idiots.

I'm a moderate Democrat and I think we should protect the NRA & gun ownership, but increase oversight (background checks) so that insane people don't have easy access to guns. Look at gun violence in Canada or Australia - two places where people can buy guns. They have virtually no gun violence compared to the USA. I'm absolutely not suggesting we go as far as these nations, but it's insane to think we can't make small changes to a system which produces far more gun deaths than any gun owning nation in history, and far more gun deaths than terrorism deaths.

My uncle and his two sons hunt. They are responsible gun owners. I see nothing wrong with responsible people owning guns. My neighbor's son, on the other hand, just got out of a psychiatric institution for violence. He beat up one of his high school teachers and is on antipsychotic medication. I think he should face higher scrutiny and tighter background checks than my uncle and his son's. And every time I say something like this, someone like you accuses me of wanting to ban the NRA and guns.

Stop distorting the issue. No serious Democrat presidential candidate will ever ban the NRA or guns. There is no upside, They might bitch about guns when there is a tragedy, but just like your side will never get rid of evolution in schools or destroy social security, the mainstream Left has nothing to gain by doing the silly things you accuse them of.

Background checks are a drop in bucket when it comes to stopping gun violence. Most murders in the US are not committed by convicted felons and most of the mentally disturbed are either not in the care of mental health professionals or they are protected by privacy laws.

There are over 300 million guns in the US. One third of the population either owns a gun or lives with someone who does. A huge number of guns are sold in garage sales, gun shows, and individual sales. So any restrictions on retail sales may reduce slightly the total number guns sold but will do little to restrict access to the huge cache of guns in the US. As long as we have the 2nd amendment, gun control laws will have little or no effect on gun violence.

People often point to the success of gun control laws in Australia but often we ignore the fact that Australia has no 2nd amendment.

 

[Flopper]

Well that's good you think like your brothers. I just remember a more peaceful time in our country. When I went to school, they didn't even bother locking the doors yet alone need metal detectors. You never heard of mass shootings like you do in this (and other) particular case. As a child, we used to go to sleep at night with the front door wide open so the screen door could let some fresh summer air in the house. The entire time growing up, my father never owned a gun.

When was this.

I grew up in the late 1960's and 1970's, when we had race riots. during the Oil Crisis, my dad had to put a lock on his car's gas cap to keep people from siphoning it out because they didn't want to pay a whopping .80 a gallon for it.

The only reason why we have 'Mass shootings" is because the gun industry you love so much is marketing military grade weapons to crazy people.

These people don't have signs around their neck saying their nuts. Most of them appear perfectly normal until you get to know them. If more parents would seek help for their kids when it's obvious that they are having emotional problems, a lot of these mass shooting could be avoided as well as a lot of other serious social problems.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But when Muslims fly jets into the Twin Towers killing thousands of people, the defenders of life do not say ban Muslims.

Stop listening to idiots. And stop sounding like an idiot by creating strawman threads built around the words of idiots.

I'm a moderate Democrat and I think we should protect the NRA & gun ownership, but increase oversight (background checks) so that insane people don't have easy access to guns. Look at gun violence in Canada or Australia - two places where people can buy guns. They have virtually no gun violence compared to the USA. I'm absolutely not suggesting we go as far as these nations, but it's insane to think we can't make small changes to a system which produces far more gun deaths than any gun owning nation in history, and far more gun deaths than terrorism deaths.

My uncle and his two sons hunt. They are responsible gun owners. I see nothing wrong with responsible people owning guns. My neighbor's son, on the other hand, just got out of a psychiatric institution for violence. He beat up one of his high school teachers and is on antipsychotic medication. I think he should face higher scrutiny and tighter background checks than my uncle and his son's. And every time I say something like this, someone like you accuses me of wanting to ban the NRA and guns.

Stop distorting the issue. No serious Democrat presidential candidate will ever ban the NRA or guns. There is no upside, They might bitch about guns when there is a tragedy, but just like your side will never get rid of evolution in schools or destroy social security, the mainstream Left has nothing to gain by doing the silly things you accuse them of.

Background checks are a drop in bucket when it comes to stopping gun violence. Most murders in the US are not committed by convicted felons and most of the mentally disturbed are either not in the care of mental health professionals or they are protected by privacy laws.

There are over 300 million guns in the US. One third of the population either owns a gun or lives with someone who does. A huge number of guns are sold in garage sales, gun shows, and individual sales. So any restrictions on retail sales may reduce slightly the total number guns sold but will do little to restrict access to the huge cache of guns in the US. As long as we have the 2nd amendment, gun control laws will have little or no effect on gun violence.

People often point to the success of gun control laws in Australia but often we ignore the fact that Australia has no 2nd amendment.

There are several gun forums here and I've seen suggestions as far out as holding the private gun seller responsible for selling a gun to felons or anybody not able to buy a gun from a retailer.

Much like the Brady Bill we used to have, the gun ban in Australia showed very little positive results. They don't work.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

 

[Flopper]

But when Muslims fly jets into the Twin Towers killing thousands of people, the defenders of life do not say ban Muslims.

Stop listening to idiots. And stop sounding like an idiot by creating strawman threads built around the words of idiots.

I'm a moderate Democrat and I think we should protect the NRA & gun ownership, but increase oversight (background checks) so that insane people don't have easy access to guns. Look at gun violence in Canada or Australia - two places where people can buy guns. They have virtually no gun violence compared to the USA. I'm absolutely not suggesting we go as far as these nations, but it's insane to think we can't make small changes to a system which produces far more gun deaths than any gun owning nation in history, and far more gun deaths than terrorism deaths.

My uncle and his two sons hunt. They are responsible gun owners. I see nothing wrong with responsible people owning guns. My neighbor's son, on the other hand, just got out of a psychiatric institution for violence. He beat up one of his high school teachers and is on antipsychotic medication. I think he should face higher scrutiny and tighter background checks than my uncle and his son's. And every time I say something like this, someone like you accuses me of wanting to ban the NRA and guns.

Stop distorting the issue. No serious Democrat presidential candidate will ever ban the NRA or guns. There is no upside, They might bitch about guns when there is a tragedy, but just like your side will never get rid of evolution in schools or destroy social security, the mainstream Left has nothing to gain by doing the silly things you accuse them of.

Background checks are a drop in bucket when it comes to stopping gun violence. Most murders in the US are not committed by convicted felons and most of the mentally disturbed are either not in the care of mental health professionals or they are protected by privacy laws.

There are over 300 million guns in the US. One third of the population either owns a gun or lives with someone who does. A huge number of guns are sold in garage sales, gun shows, and individual sales. So any restrictions on retail sales may reduce slightly the total number guns sold but will do little to restrict access to the huge cache of guns in the US. As long as we have the 2nd amendment, gun control laws will have little or no effect on gun violence.

People often point to the success of gun control laws in Australia but often we ignore the fact that Australia has no 2nd amendment.

There are several gun forums here and I've seen suggestions as far out as holding the private gun seller responsible for selling a gun to felons or anybody not able to buy a gun from a retailer.

Much like the Brady Bill we used to have, the gun ban in Australia showed very little positive results. They don't work.

I'm not very familiar with Australia but the changes in gun laws and policy in 1996 do seem to be responsible for a significant reduction in firearm deaths.

In 1996, the government outlawed automatic and semiautomatic rifles and shot guns and initiated a buyback program which removes nearly 1/3 of the guns in the country. Firearm homicide rates fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides.

However, that's Australia and this the USA. There is no 2nd amendment right to bear arms in Australia and the number of firearms were far less than in US. Gun control can certainly work but not with the 2nd amendment.

Did gun control work in Australia?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But when Muslims fly jets into the Twin Towers killing thousands of people, the defenders of life do not say ban Muslims.

Stop listening to idiots. And stop sounding like an idiot by creating strawman threads built around the words of idiots.

I'm a moderate Democrat and I think we should protect the NRA & gun ownership, but increase oversight (background checks) so that insane people don't have easy access to guns. Look at gun violence in Canada or Australia - two places where people can buy guns. They have virtually no gun violence compared to the USA. I'm absolutely not suggesting we go as far as these nations, but it's insane to think we can't make small changes to a system which produces far more gun deaths than any gun owning nation in history, and far more gun deaths than terrorism deaths.

My uncle and his two sons hunt. They are responsible gun owners. I see nothing wrong with responsible people owning guns. My neighbor's son, on the other hand, just got out of a psychiatric institution for violence. He beat up one of his high school teachers and is on antipsychotic medication. I think he should face higher scrutiny and tighter background checks than my uncle and his son's. And every time I say something like this, someone like you accuses me of wanting to ban the NRA and guns.

Stop distorting the issue. No serious Democrat presidential candidate will ever ban the NRA or guns. There is no upside, They might bitch about guns when there is a tragedy, but just like your side will never get rid of evolution in schools or destroy social security, the mainstream Left has nothing to gain by doing the silly things you accuse them of.

Background checks are a drop in bucket when it comes to stopping gun violence. Most murders in the US are not committed by convicted felons and most of the mentally disturbed are either not in the care of mental health professionals or they are protected by privacy laws.

There are over 300 million guns in the US. One third of the population either owns a gun or lives with someone who does. A huge number of guns are sold in garage sales, gun shows, and individual sales. So any restrictions on retail sales may reduce slightly the total number guns sold but will do little to restrict access to the huge cache of guns in the US. As long as we have the 2nd amendment, gun control laws will have little or no effect on gun violence.

People often point to the success of gun control laws in Australia but often we ignore the fact that Australia has no 2nd amendment.

There are several gun forums here and I've seen suggestions as far out as holding the private gun seller responsible for selling a gun to felons or anybody not able to buy a gun from a retailer.

Much like the Brady Bill we used to have, the gun ban in Australia showed very little positive results. They don't work.

I'm not very familiar with Australia but the changes in gun laws and policy in 1996 do seem to be responsible for a significant reduction in firearm deaths.

In 1996, the government outlawed automatic and semiautomatic rifles and shot guns and initiated a buyback program which removes nearly 1/3 of the guns in the country. Firearm homicide rates fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides.

However, that's Australia and this the USA. There is no 2nd amendment right to bear arms in Australia and the number of firearms were far less than in US. Gun control can certainly work but not with the 2nd amendment.

Did gun control work in Australia?

This is true, but National Review looked at it a different way.

What they found is gun and suicide rates were falling long before the gun ban. It seems that it only continued after the ban was put in place. I scanned over your article and they apparently have omitted that part.

What's also interesting is that during that same period, non-firearm suicides were on the increase and didn't start the decline until after the ban.

It's like when we had the Brady Bill here. Sure, there were positive results, but like Australia, those results were only a continuation of what was happening before.

I look at it a different way: I think that our violence and gun violence dropped throughout the years because of more lenient laws that most states adopted. Laws such as Castle Doctrine and CCW laws. Now I have no evidence to support that, but it seems that's the only change when it comes to guns in this country.

Australia Model -- Obama's Proposal | National Review Online

 

[JoeB131]

Yes Joe no one wants to ban guns because you say so. Please take your medicine now.

No, people want to ban guns because 154,000 people have died from gun violence since 2001.

That's like 51 9/11's.

 

[JoeB131]

This is true, but National Review looked at it a different way.

National Review thought invading Iraq was a good idea.

National Review thought Bush was a good pick for President.

We should read what the National Review says and then do the EXACT OPPOSITE of that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is true, but National Review looked at it a different way.

National Review thought invading Iraq was a good idea.

National Review thought Bush was a good pick for President.

We should read what the National Review says and then do the EXACT OPPOSITE of that.

Awww, sorry Joe. You don't like National Review?

Well there are plenty of other sources that report these gun laws are impotent.

You don't even have to go overseas for those results. Just look at the US where states and cities have the most stringent laws and they still have high rates of gun murders. If you don't want to do that, take notice where most of these mass shootings take place--in Gun Free zones.

They don't work Joe. Just admit it. Oh yes, they may be good ideas, but ideas that produced no empirical results.