How could anyone be "independent" or a "swing voter" at this time in history?

[Red Wolf]

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

I agree. So people shouldn't do that. They should stand up for their standards, even if they get incoming from both ends.
.

And in what way are you "standing up for your standards", exactly? Sanctimoniously flapping your jaw at people about how "moral" you are? Or is there something real?

You're the one who's preaching at me because you feel I must take an action. But if you think asking for kindness, respect, and honesty is me being sanctimonious than have at it.

You misunderstand. I don't care if you "take an action" or not. In fact, from listening to you talk, I think you're probably making the world a better place by sparing us your involvement.

What I'm actually "preaching" at you about is seeing a different perspective on your choices, or non-choices as the case may be.

What I continue to think is that your prattling about vagueries like "I'm just asking for kindness, respect, and honesty, and how DARE you expect me to be specific about what that actually means, just admire me for using good words!" is so much self-flattering hogwash.

kindness
[ˈkīn(d)nəs]
NOUN

1. the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate.

respect
[rəˈspekt]
NOUN

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
   "the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"
   
   
2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.
   "young people's lack of respect for their parents"
   synonyms:
   due regard · 
   [more]
3. a particular aspect, point, or detail.
   "the government's record in this respect is a mixed one"

integrity
[inˈteɡrədē]
NOUN

1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
   "he is known to be a man of integrity"

I'm sorry if those words trigger and confuse you.

 

[jc456]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

I agree. So people shouldn't do that. They should stand up for their standards, even if they get incoming from both ends.
.

so you forfeit something of importance to get everything? how did you get a job?

 

[Mac1958]

I really feel no need to apologize for having a mind of my own.
being a drone in the hive has never appealed to me.

What's amazing is how proud they are to be obedient sheep, without any independent thought or (worse) curiosity.

What's been done to them is pretty powerful.
.

What's amazing is how proud YOU are to dismiss others as "sheep" without any actual evidence that that's the only alternative to your ego-stroking inactivity.

I don't care. Sorry.
.

 

[jc456]

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

I agree. So people shouldn't do that. They should stand up for their standards, even if they get incoming from both ends.
.

And in what way are you "standing up for your standards", exactly? Sanctimoniously flapping your jaw at people about how "moral" you are? Or is there something real?

You're the one who's preaching at me because you feel I must take an action. But if you think asking for kindness, respect, and honesty is me being sanctimonious than have at it.

You misunderstand. I don't care if you "take an action" or not. In fact, from listening to you talk, I think you're probably making the world a better place by sparing us your involvement.

What I'm actually "preaching" at you about is seeing a different perspective on your choices, or non-choices as the case may be.

What I continue to think is that your prattling about vagueries like "I'm just asking for kindness, respect, and honesty, and how DARE you expect me to be specific about what that actually means, just admire me for using good words!" is so much self-flattering hogwash.

kindness
[ˈkīn(d)nəs]
NOUN

1. the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate.

respect
[rəˈspekt]
NOUN

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
   "the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"
   
   
2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.
   "young people's lack of respect for their parents"
   synonyms:
   due regard · 
   [more]
3. a particular aspect, point, or detail.
   "the government's record in this respect is a mixed one"

integrity
[inˈteɡrədē]
NOUN

1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
   "he is known to be a man of integrity"

I'm sorry if those words trigger and confuse you.

the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate.

to everyone? no matter the scenario? So a guy points a gun at your head, your way out is to be kind? hahahaahahahahaha what a fktard.

 

[Red Wolf]

The person I vote for is going to be someone who doesn't slam others just for having a different view point. They're going to be someone who doesn't feel the need to deceive or lie about themselves or others. This person will fight to unite us all, not just one party. If you want to see that as me letting my emotions getting the best of me than you go ahead. But I will not vote for someone who strives on division and hate.

So until Jesus Christ shows up and throws His hat in the ring, you're just going to abstain and let the world function as it will without your input? What other things in your life do you just blow off and let spiral into Hell unobstructed because of a lack of perfect choices?

I don't owe anyone my support. Who I back is my decision and my right and for you to act like asking for decent human behavior that we expect from anyone else is an unrealistic expectation from our politicians then maybe you need to reevaluate your standards. But when you put two different plates full of feces in front of me and expect me to choose, you don't get to act indignant when I refuse. My choice, my voice, I will use it however I see fit. But no one is entitled to my support.

No one said you owed any candidate your support, Chuckles. You're busy arguing the point you WISH this was about, because you don't want to face the reality of the real topic.

Your support is owed to the society around you, and the individual people who make up that society, and the society which will exist in the future. You owe it to all of the above to do what you can to make the world better, or at least to prevent it from becoming worse. And if you're more interested in congratulating yourself on your "high morals" in dismissing anything and anyone imperfect as "feces" and beneath your vaunted, oh-so-valuable vote than you are in dealing with the realities of who will make things better and who will work evil, then YOU are the one not meeting basic decent human behavior.

You're of the opinion that I must vote or otherwise I'm allowing evil to take place. In order for that than you certainly do feel that I owe someone my support. What you don't realize is that a vote of no confidence is still a vote. You want me to vote for someone, than put up someone worth voting for. But try as you might, you don't get to dictate my actions. I have every right to refuse my vote to those who I feel are undeserving.

You are inferring far more respect for you than I actually have. Get over yourself.

To break this down in simple terms, I asked how anyone could claim to be undecided at this point in time, and you told me how morally superior you were for not making any choices, and I told you you were full of shit. That's it, that's all. I haven't demanded that you stop being full of shit; I'm just exercising my right to recognize that you're full of shit.

Me not voting for someone because I have standards equals me being full of shit. Okay. You have fun with that.

 

[jc456]

I really feel no need to apologize for having a mind of my own.
being a drone in the hive has never appealed to me.

What's amazing is how proud they are to be obedient sheep, without any independent thought or (worse) curiosity.

What's been done to them is pretty powerful.
.

What's amazing is how proud YOU are to dismiss others as "sheep" without any actual evidence that that's the only alternative to your ego-stroking inactivity.

I don't care. Sorry.
.

no you get a vote.

 

[Mac1958]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

then you forfeit the right to bitch.

Wow. More weird Trumpian fantasy. I vote, and will vote.

I'll keep my standards, you don't have to (obviously). If you don't like that, tough shit.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Man, wingers sure do get bitchy about this topic.

For good reason - they're sheep and they know it.

 

[jc456]

So until Jesus Christ shows up and throws His hat in the ring, you're just going to abstain and let the world function as it will without your input? What other things in your life do you just blow off and let spiral into Hell unobstructed because of a lack of perfect choices?

I don't owe anyone my support. Who I back is my decision and my right and for you to act like asking for decent human behavior that we expect from anyone else is an unrealistic expectation from our politicians then maybe you need to reevaluate your standards. But when you put two different plates full of feces in front of me and expect me to choose, you don't get to act indignant when I refuse. My choice, my voice, I will use it however I see fit. But no one is entitled to my support.

No one said you owed any candidate your support, Chuckles. You're busy arguing the point you WISH this was about, because you don't want to face the reality of the real topic.

Your support is owed to the society around you, and the individual people who make up that society, and the society which will exist in the future. You owe it to all of the above to do what you can to make the world better, or at least to prevent it from becoming worse. And if you're more interested in congratulating yourself on your "high morals" in dismissing anything and anyone imperfect as "feces" and beneath your vaunted, oh-so-valuable vote than you are in dealing with the realities of who will make things better and who will work evil, then YOU are the one not meeting basic decent human behavior.

You're of the opinion that I must vote or otherwise I'm allowing evil to take place. In order for that than you certainly do feel that I owe someone my support. What you don't realize is that a vote of no confidence is still a vote. You want me to vote for someone, than put up someone worth voting for. But try as you might, you don't get to dictate my actions. I have every right to refuse my vote to those who I feel are undeserving.

You are inferring far more respect for you than I actually have. Get over yourself.

To break this down in simple terms, I asked how anyone could claim to be undecided at this point in time, and you told me how morally superior you were for not making any choices, and I told you you were full of shit. That's it, that's all. I haven't demanded that you stop being full of shit; I'm just exercising my right to recognize that you're full of shit.

Me not voting for someone because I have standards equals me being full of shit. Okay. You have fun with that.

well sure, because you create chaos, which we don't need. so yeah!!

 

[Red Wolf]

I never implied I was special. All I did was state my own criteria. And I am well aware that my bar is so high that I probably won't be voting any time soon. But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

If the alternative is to allow someone who will destroy the nation to become President, yes.

Both parties are always convinced the other one wants to destroy the nation. I'm not buying into that.

If people actually talked to one another with the intent to listen and learn then we would actually begin to try and do what's best for this nation and hold our leaders accountable equally.

Most independents are always convinced that everything is about "parties", and can just be dismissed as beneath them without any real thought.

If people who blather about "talk to one another with the intent to listen and learn" would actually LISTEN AND LEARN, they might not spend as much time posting nonsensical "responses" to posts which have no relation to what's being said in the post.

And yes, I AM calling you a pretentious hypocrite, just in case that wasn't clear.

I really don't care what you call me. But if you think asking for people to behave like adults is blathering than you're more out of touch than you realize.

Thank you for proving my point. You may toddle back to your meaningless preening now.

Thank you for your much needed permission.

 

[jc456]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

then you forfeit the right to bitch.

Wow. More weird Trumpian fantasy. I vote, and will vote.

I'll keep my standards, you don't have to (obviously). If you don't like that, tough shit.
.

no you don't, you hand your vote to a known loser to feel good about yourself. That makes you a narcissist.

 

[rightwinger]

Independents decide our elections

 

[jc456]

If the alternative is to allow someone who will destroy the nation to become President, yes.

Both parties are always convinced the other one wants to destroy the nation. I'm not buying into that.

If people actually talked to one another with the intent to listen and learn then we would actually begin to try and do what's best for this nation and hold our leaders accountable equally.

Most independents are always convinced that everything is about "parties", and can just be dismissed as beneath them without any real thought.

If people who blather about "talk to one another with the intent to listen and learn" would actually LISTEN AND LEARN, they might not spend as much time posting nonsensical "responses" to posts which have no relation to what's being said in the post.

And yes, I AM calling you a pretentious hypocrite, just in case that wasn't clear.

I really don't care what you call me. But if you think asking for people to behave like adults is blathering than you're more out of touch than you realize.

Thank you for proving my point. You may toddle back to your meaningless preening now.

Thank you for your much needed permission.

well actually no vote equals a forfeiture of expression into our country's political needs.

 

[Red Wolf]

Not unless someone good comes along.

So meanwhile, someone awful is welcome to take over while you wait for someone who meets your standards of good.

You remind me of Mitt Romney. A moral stance, taken in a vacuum with no reference to the ethical situation to which it will be applied, can all-too-easily become immoral in its evil consequences. And you can quote me on that.

We already have something awful because people refuse to listen and talk. Hate has become fashionable and people cheer on the insults and jabs made at others simply for having a different view point. How do you suppose we make something great from division and rhetoric? It's only by us being the very best that we can that we'll get the people worth leading us. But to say that I "have" to support someone is ridiculous. Settling for meh is a horrible way to give someone a nob.

Be the change you want to see in the world, by actually saying something real for people to listen to, instead of spewing all these vague generalities at me. Please explain to me how 1) choosing one candidate who's better than the other despite neither of them being perfect makes hate fashionable, and 2) what your policy of doing not a damned thing except for lecturing everyone about how you're morally superior by doing not a damned thing somehow makes that better.

I'll wait.

How is asking for someone to be honest and respectful vague? Do you keep people in your life who treat you like crap, or do you look for those who actually talk to you like a person? It's not that difficult.

And I'm still not sure how voting for someone who hates others simply for their opinions is the same as me fighting evil. Maybe you can explain that one.

How is that vague? Well, let me see. There's the word "someone", for a start. WHICH someone did you have in mind? Then there's, y'know, the whole part where I spelled out EXACTLY what being specific would entail, which you skipped right over to give me a platitudinous lecture on relationships that reads a lot like a Facebook meme.

Maybe instead of asking me for explanations over and over, you could try just reading the explanations I've already given. You remember, that whole "listen and learn" thing you were dribbling on about earlier.

You're accusing me of ignoring your explanations while you ignore the ones I gave. You really do need to be a little more self aware.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Hey, I'm all for holding politicians to standards. I just don't see how sniffily absenting yourself from the process entirely and allowing other people to choose politicians who can't even SPELL "standards" accomplishes that.

I agree. So people shouldn't do that. They should stand up for their standards, even if they get incoming from both ends.
.

And in what way are you "standing up for your standards", exactly? Sanctimoniously flapping your jaw at people about how "moral" you are? Or is there something real?

You're the one who's preaching at me because you feel I must take an action. But if you think asking for kindness, respect, and honesty is me being sanctimonious than have at it.

You misunderstand. I don't care if you "take an action" or not. In fact, from listening to you talk, I think you're probably making the world a better place by sparing us your involvement.

What I'm actually "preaching" at you about is seeing a different perspective on your choices, or non-choices as the case may be.

What I continue to think is that your prattling about vagueries like "I'm just asking for kindness, respect, and honesty, and how DARE you expect me to be specific about what that actually means, just admire me for using good words!" is so much self-flattering hogwash.

kindness
[ˈkīn(d)nəs]
NOUN

1. the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate.

respect
[rəˈspekt]
NOUN

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
   "the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"
   
   
2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.
   "young people's lack of respect for their parents"
   synonyms:
   due regard · 
   [more]
3. a particular aspect, point, or detail.
   "the government's record in this respect is a mixed one"

integrity
[inˈteɡrədē]
NOUN

1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
   "he is known to be a man of integrity"

I'm sorry if those words trigger and confuse you.

Oh, I'm sorry, was your massive ego not able to process the concept of someone finding no more value in your conversation?

Piss off, lightweight. You and your dickless self-justification are boring.

 

[jc456]

So meanwhile, someone awful is welcome to take over while you wait for someone who meets your standards of good.

You remind me of Mitt Romney. A moral stance, taken in a vacuum with no reference to the ethical situation to which it will be applied, can all-too-easily become immoral in its evil consequences. And you can quote me on that.

We already have something awful because people refuse to listen and talk. Hate has become fashionable and people cheer on the insults and jabs made at others simply for having a different view point. How do you suppose we make something great from division and rhetoric? It's only by us being the very best that we can that we'll get the people worth leading us. But to say that I "have" to support someone is ridiculous. Settling for meh is a horrible way to give someone a nob.

Be the change you want to see in the world, by actually saying something real for people to listen to, instead of spewing all these vague generalities at me. Please explain to me how 1) choosing one candidate who's better than the other despite neither of them being perfect makes hate fashionable, and 2) what your policy of doing not a damned thing except for lecturing everyone about how you're morally superior by doing not a damned thing somehow makes that better.

I'll wait.

How is asking for someone to be honest and respectful vague? Do you keep people in your life who treat you like crap, or do you look for those who actually talk to you like a person? It's not that difficult.

And I'm still not sure how voting for someone who hates others simply for their opinions is the same as me fighting evil. Maybe you can explain that one.

How is that vague? Well, let me see. There's the word "someone", for a start. WHICH someone did you have in mind? Then there's, y'know, the whole part where I spelled out EXACTLY what being specific would entail, which you skipped right over to give me a platitudinous lecture on relationships that reads a lot like a Facebook meme.

Maybe instead of asking me for explanations over and over, you could try just reading the explanations I've already given. You remember, that whole "listen and learn" thing you were dribbling on about earlier.

You're accusing me of ignoring your explanations while you ignore the ones I gave. You really do need to be a little more self aware.

your vote of nothing gets you nothing.

 

[Red Wolf]

I'll never vote "the lesser of two evils" or do it to spite a candidate because of the actions of someone else. Their are some things in this life we can compromise on, morals should not be one of them.

I have a moral for you. Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

I'm not asking for perfect, I'm asking for common human decency. The same that I want from all the people in my life.

See my last post, re: vague generalities. Butch up and try a few specifics. It only hurts for a moment. EXACTLY what is it you demand in a political candidate in order to bless him with your pure and holy vote, which you are not currently getting?

If common human decency is beyond your scope of understanding than I honestly don't know what to tell you. It just feels like we're talking in circles then when I say respect, honesty, and integrity. I really don't know how that can be confusing but apparently it can. I'm willing to listen if you want to try to explain.

"If you dare ask me for specifics, that means common human decency is beyond you, that way I get to storm off in a huff without giving specifics and while still flattering myself I'm above everyone else."

Cool quote. Don't remember saying it but if it makes you feel better then by all means go ahead.

 

[Mac1958]

But is asking for someone with honesty and integrity someone you should compromise on?

Please don't. We already have more than enough people selling their soul for politicians who don't give two shits about them.

We need more people who are willing to hold people to standards.
.

then you forfeit the right to bitch.

Wow. More weird Trumpian fantasy. I vote, and will vote.

I'll keep my standards, you don't have to (obviously). If you don't like that, tough shit.
.

no you don't, you hand your vote to a known loser to feel good about yourself. That makes you conceded.

"Conceited"



Y'know, it's funny:

On one hand, you think you and your tribe have all the answers. We should just give you all the power and you'll save us. Because you speak The Truth.

On the other hand, I think the best and longest-lasting ideas come from everywhere - communication, collaboration, innovation. Working together.

And you call ME "conceited".

Yeah. Funny.
.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I really feel no need to apologize for having a mind of my own.
being a drone in the hive has never appealed to me.

What's amazing is how proud they are to be obedient sheep, without any independent thought or (worse) curiosity.

What's been done to them is pretty powerful.
.

What's amazing is how proud YOU are to dismiss others as "sheep" without any actual evidence that that's the only alternative to your ego-stroking inactivity.

I don't care. Sorry.
.

And there we come to the root of all your palaver about your "moral superiority by doing nothing": you actually just don't care if the world burns.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So until Jesus Christ shows up and throws His hat in the ring, you're just going to abstain and let the world function as it will without your input? What other things in your life do you just blow off and let spiral into Hell unobstructed because of a lack of perfect choices?

I don't owe anyone my support. Who I back is my decision and my right and for you to act like asking for decent human behavior that we expect from anyone else is an unrealistic expectation from our politicians then maybe you need to reevaluate your standards. But when you put two different plates full of feces in front of me and expect me to choose, you don't get to act indignant when I refuse. My choice, my voice, I will use it however I see fit. But no one is entitled to my support.

No one said you owed any candidate your support, Chuckles. You're busy arguing the point you WISH this was about, because you don't want to face the reality of the real topic.

Your support is owed to the society around you, and the individual people who make up that society, and the society which will exist in the future. You owe it to all of the above to do what you can to make the world better, or at least to prevent it from becoming worse. And if you're more interested in congratulating yourself on your "high morals" in dismissing anything and anyone imperfect as "feces" and beneath your vaunted, oh-so-valuable vote than you are in dealing with the realities of who will make things better and who will work evil, then YOU are the one not meeting basic decent human behavior.

You're of the opinion that I must vote or otherwise I'm allowing evil to take place. In order for that than you certainly do feel that I owe someone my support. What you don't realize is that a vote of no confidence is still a vote. You want me to vote for someone, than put up someone worth voting for. But try as you might, you don't get to dictate my actions. I have every right to refuse my vote to those who I feel are undeserving.

You are inferring far more respect for you than I actually have. Get over yourself.

To break this down in simple terms, I asked how anyone could claim to be undecided at this point in time, and you told me how morally superior you were for not making any choices, and I told you you were full of shit. That's it, that's all. I haven't demanded that you stop being full of shit; I'm just exercising my right to recognize that you're full of shit.

Me not voting for someone because I have standards equals me being full of shit. Okay. You have fun with that.

And you're still talking. Shoo.