How did Birth Control become a right?

[jc456]

See? American healthcare culture. People have no right to anything unless they can pay for it themselves.

And that is something I hope will change...

I agree, make it fking affordable and get rid of insurance companies. simple.

Do you honestly think it can be? I think that is a pipe dream.

The US spends far more than other comparable countries on healthcare Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries

But it's not just because of health insurance. A coronary bypass is 50% more in the US than Europe with its national healthcare.

oh bull hockey, doctor bills are as high as they are due to liability laws. Doctors get paid to cover malpractice insurance to protect against lawsuits.

More than that is the fact you can't see just one doctor anymore in most cases. Years ago your family doctor took care of everything. The only time you were sent to a specialist is when there was something going on that the doctor couldn't figure out.

Today when you see your doctor for something beyond a cold or something simple, he or she sends you to two or three specialists, orders tests that have little to do with the problem you came there for, the bills get run up and insurance has to pay for all the extras. Why? To pass the liability buck to other people.

spot on, that is quite a lot of it indeed. and each one of em have their insurance. who makes out? the insurance companies. It's sad.

 

[jc456]

By passing legislation in the liberal media that's how. Its called propaganda, can't muster the support of the American people, can't get actual laws passed, then use propaganda in the schools and media to faux pass it.

I get that. What I don't get is how anybody can file a lawsuit over it. Employers provide (or should be allowed to provide) whatever benefits they desire. No government should force any industry to provide anything but a safe workplace and reasonable demands of an employee.

What's even more disturbing is that some liberal court will actually rule employees have the right to free birth control by their employers.

Birth control pills, NO. Boner pills, Yes. Got it!

it's a boner pill? that women love?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Going back to birth control, why should employers have the right to pick and choose which kinds of medial care an employee should or should not receive?

As a childless employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who choose to have children?

As a vegan employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who eat meat?

As a fit employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to employees who are fat?

Why should any employer have the right to choose whether or not an employee has access to a certain kind of health care?

Because they are the ones paying for it?

What right does a government have forcing an employer to pay for specific care they may not want to pay for? That makes about as much sense as the government forcing employers to give their employees company stocks for free.

 

[jc456]

Going back to birth control, why should employers have the right to pick and choose which kinds of medial care an employee should or should not receive?

As a childless employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who choose to have children?

As a vegan employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who eat meat?

As a fit employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to employees who are fat?

Why should any employer have the right to choose whether or not an employee has access to a certain kind of health care?

Because they are the ones paying for it?

What right does a government have forcing an employer to pay for specific care they may not want to pay for? That makes about as much sense as the government forcing employers to give their employees company stocks for free.

I like that idea.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And that is something I hope will change...

I agree, make it fking affordable and get rid of insurance companies. simple.

Do you honestly think it can be? I think that is a pipe dream.

The US spends far more than other comparable countries on healthcare Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries

But it's not just because of health insurance. A coronary bypass is 50% more in the US than Europe with its national healthcare.

oh bull hockey, doctor bills are as high as they are due to liability laws. Doctors get paid to cover malpractice insurance to protect against lawsuits.

More than that is the fact you can't see just one doctor anymore in most cases. Years ago your family doctor took care of everything. The only time you were sent to a specialist is when there was something going on that the doctor couldn't figure out.

Today when you see your doctor for something beyond a cold or something simple, he or she sends you to two or three specialists, orders tests that have little to do with the problem you came there for, the bills get run up and insurance has to pay for all the extras. Why? To pass the liability buck to other people.

spot on, that is quite a lot of it indeed. and each one of em have their insurance. who makes out? the insurance companies. It's sad.

Yes, but it's the medical insurance companies who lose out. That's the problem, and that's why premiums keep on increasing.

 

[jc456]

I agree, make it fking affordable and get rid of insurance companies. simple.

Do you honestly think it can be? I think that is a pipe dream.

The US spends far more than other comparable countries on healthcare Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries

But it's not just because of health insurance. A coronary bypass is 50% more in the US than Europe with its national healthcare.

oh bull hockey, doctor bills are as high as they are due to liability laws. Doctors get paid to cover malpractice insurance to protect against lawsuits.

More than that is the fact you can't see just one doctor anymore in most cases. Years ago your family doctor took care of everything. The only time you were sent to a specialist is when there was something going on that the doctor couldn't figure out.

Today when you see your doctor for something beyond a cold or something simple, he or she sends you to two or three specialists, orders tests that have little to do with the problem you came there for, the bills get run up and insurance has to pay for all the extras. Why? To pass the liability buck to other people.

spot on, that is quite a lot of it indeed. and each one of em have their insurance. who makes out? the insurance companies. It's sad.

Yes, but it's the medical insurance companies who lose out. That's the problem, and that's why premiums keep on increasing.

no doubt. It's the pre-existing condition thingy.

 

[Penelope]

`
`
Most, but not all, forms of birth control are rather inexpensive. I could afford it as a teen. Low income women can get it free or reduced cost. Forms like Depo-Provera, can be rather expensive.

From where, PPs?

 

[Penelope]

I agree, make it fking affordable and get rid of insurance companies. simple.

Do you honestly think it can be? I think that is a pipe dream.

The US spends far more than other comparable countries on healthcare Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries

But it's not just because of health insurance. A coronary bypass is 50% more in the US than Europe with its national healthcare.

oh bull hockey, doctor bills are as high as they are due to liability laws. Doctors get paid to cover malpractice insurance to protect against lawsuits.

More than that is the fact you can't see just one doctor anymore in most cases. Years ago your family doctor took care of everything. The only time you were sent to a specialist is when there was something going on that the doctor couldn't figure out.

Today when you see your doctor for something beyond a cold or something simple, he or she sends you to two or three specialists, orders tests that have little to do with the problem you came there for, the bills get run up and insurance has to pay for all the extras. Why? To pass the liability buck to other people.

spot on, that is quite a lot of it indeed. and each one of em have their insurance. who makes out? the insurance companies. It's sad.

Yes, but it's the medical insurance companies who lose out. That's the problem, and that's why premiums keep on increasing.

How much is your copay for Viagra?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As a Canadian reading some of these posts, I'm reminded that Americans have an odd (to me) notion of rights. Of course, every American has an absolute right to have a gun, despite its ultimate harm to your society. But health care? Meh. The only right to health care is what you can afford to pay for yourself, despite the fact that a healthy population benefits your society. Bizarre.

I have several guns and not one of them ever brought an "ultimate harm to society."

Our rights are listed in the US Constitution, and one of those rights is to possess a firearm. But because it is a right, that doesn't mean government has to provide me with a gun. I have to buy that gun myself. My government is not obligated to provide me with a firearm, and neither is my employer.

 

[OnePercenter]

I agree, make it fking affordable and get rid of insurance companies. simple.

Do you honestly think it can be? I think that is a pipe dream.

The US spends far more than other comparable countries on healthcare Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries

But it's not just because of health insurance. A coronary bypass is 50% more in the US than Europe with its national healthcare.

oh bull hockey, doctor bills are as high as they are due to liability laws. Doctors get paid to cover malpractice insurance to protect against lawsuits.

More than that is the fact you can't see just one doctor anymore in most cases. Years ago your family doctor took care of everything. The only time you were sent to a specialist is when there was something going on that the doctor couldn't figure out.

Today when you see your doctor for something beyond a cold or something simple, he or she sends you to two or three specialists, orders tests that have little to do with the problem you came there for, the bills get run up and insurance has to pay for all the extras. Why? To pass the liability buck to other people.

spot on, that is quite a lot of it indeed. and each one of em have their insurance. who makes out? the insurance companies. It's sad.

Yes, but it's the medical insurance companies who lose out. That's the problem, and that's why premiums keep on increasing.

That's why profits are increasing?

 

[jc456]

i

Do you honestly think it can be? I think that is a pipe dream.

The US spends far more than other comparable countries on healthcare Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries

But it's not just because of health insurance. A coronary bypass is 50% more in the US than Europe with its national healthcare.

oh bull hockey, doctor bills are as high as they are due to liability laws. Doctors get paid to cover malpractice insurance to protect against lawsuits.

More than that is the fact you can't see just one doctor anymore in most cases. Years ago your family doctor took care of everything. The only time you were sent to a specialist is when there was something going on that the doctor couldn't figure out.

Today when you see your doctor for something beyond a cold or something simple, he or she sends you to two or three specialists, orders tests that have little to do with the problem you came there for, the bills get run up and insurance has to pay for all the extras. Why? To pass the liability buck to other people.

spot on, that is quite a lot of it indeed. and each one of em have their insurance. who makes out? the insurance companies. It's sad.

Yes, but it's the medical insurance companies who lose out. That's the problem, and that's why premiums keep on increasing.

That's why profits are increasing?

for doctors we know.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Do you honestly think it can be? I think that is a pipe dream.

The US spends far more than other comparable countries on healthcare Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries

But it's not just because of health insurance. A coronary bypass is 50% more in the US than Europe with its national healthcare.

oh bull hockey, doctor bills are as high as they are due to liability laws. Doctors get paid to cover malpractice insurance to protect against lawsuits.

More than that is the fact you can't see just one doctor anymore in most cases. Years ago your family doctor took care of everything. The only time you were sent to a specialist is when there was something going on that the doctor couldn't figure out.

Today when you see your doctor for something beyond a cold or something simple, he or she sends you to two or three specialists, orders tests that have little to do with the problem you came there for, the bills get run up and insurance has to pay for all the extras. Why? To pass the liability buck to other people.

spot on, that is quite a lot of it indeed. and each one of em have their insurance. who makes out? the insurance companies. It's sad.

Yes, but it's the medical insurance companies who lose out. That's the problem, and that's why premiums keep on increasing.

no doubt. It's the pre-existing condition thingy.

No, it's more the "cover your bases" thingy.

In the event a doctor gets sued, he or she wants to make sure every T is crossed and every I is dotted. They don't need some ambulance chaser trying to make the claim a doctor was negligent by not doing this test or not sending a patient to that specialist. So even if the doctor knows what your problem is and how to treat it, they don't. They send you elsewhere to get treated.

It's kind of like if mechanics could get sued for working on a car. Your engine is missing, and your mechanic knows it's either a spark plug or fuel injector. But he rebuilds the entire engine and does a brake job so there is no possibility of getting into an accident on the way home. Then he sends it to a transmission place to have that worked on.

Eventually, getting your car fixed for the simplest things would become unaffordable.

One solution is not medical, but political. We need a Loser Pays All law in this country. You can sue anybody you like, but if you lose the case, you have to pay all expenses of the person you tried to sue.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

angry? hahaahahahahaha you want my money and I'm the one angry. too funny Pinocchio

What makes you think that I want (or need) your money? So tell us, what is it that you have against contraceptives?

huh?

Well, since your taxes pay for all kinds of things that you won't personally use, what is it about contraceptives that makes you go apeshit?

it's called stopping the freebie mobile.

Not sure what that means, but wouldn't it be better to freely distribute contraceptives so that employees don't have so many unplanned pregnancies, and wouldn't that be better for the company's bottom line?

That would be fine as long as it's the employer who makes that decision and not the government.

 

[jc456]

What makes you think that I want (or need) your money? So tell us, what is it that you have against contraceptives?

huh?

Well, since your taxes pay for all kinds of things that you won't personally use, what is it about contraceptives that makes you go apeshit?

it's called stopping the freebie mobile.

Not sure what that means, but wouldn't it be better to freely distribute contraceptives so that employees don't have so many unplanned pregnancies, and wouldn't that be better for the company's bottom line?

That would be fine as long as it's the employer who makes that decision and not the government.

and we know that stand and why government feels the need to get involved.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Trump administration is rolling back the Obama-era requirement that employer-provided health insurance policies cover birth control methods at no cost to women.

According to senior officials with the Department of Health and Human Services, the goal of the new rule is to allow any company or nonprofit group to exclude the coverage for contraception if it has a religious or moral objection.

The change fulfills a promise President Trump made in May to the Catholic religious order The Little Sisters of the Poor in a ceremony in the White House Rose Garden. The nuns had sued the Obama administration over the birth control requirement.

It also sets up a fight between advocates of religious freedom and those of equal rights for women. The American Civil Liberties Union sued the Trump Administration within hours of the rule being published, claiming it violated the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause, which ensures that all people receive equal protection under the law.

Longer-acting contraception, like an intrauterine device, can cost more than $1,000, says Sarah Lipton-Lubet, a vice president at the National Partnership for Women and Families. She says the new rule is a tool for discrimination against women.

"Women shouldn't be denied access to basic health care based on their employers' religious beliefs," she says. "We all have the right to our religious beliefs. But the way that this rule treats religion is really an excuse to discriminate."

In addition to the ACLU, Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey, and California Attorney General Javier Becerra announced they too plan to file suit opposing the new rule.

Trump Guts Requirement That Employer Health Plans Pay For Birth Control

Maybe some of you leftists can help me out here. How in the world can you say not forcing employers to provide birth control is a violation of equal protection? What's not equal about it? And how is not paying for it "denying access" to birth control? Is there some law that states you can't buy birth control for yourself, and that only your employer can buy it for you?

Who here believes that when the founders wrote the Constitution, that they had forcing employers to provide things for their employees in mind?

Well despite the best efforts of Conservatives- who fought for decades to keep birth control illegal- legal access to birth control came about in the '60's- when the Supreme Court overthrew the laws passed by the Christian conservatives to deny women access to safe, legal birth control.

Now of course Conservatives want to keep trimming away a woman's access to birth control- because that is what they do.
Which is why they want to defund Planned Parenthood. And why they want broad exemptions for corporations to deny women birth control in their health insurance plans.

By your employer not paying for something is denying you something?

My employer will not pay my mortgage. Does that mean my employer is denying me the right to buy a house?

 

[Penelope]

As a Canadian reading some of these posts, I'm reminded that Americans have an odd (to me) notion of rights. Of course, every American has an absolute right to have a gun, despite its ultimate harm to your society. But health care? Meh. The only right to health care is what you can afford to pay for yourself, despite the fact that a healthy population benefits your society. Bizarre.

I have several guns and not one of them ever brought an "ultimate harm to society."

Our rights are listed in the US Constitution, and one of those rights is to possess a firearm. But because it is a right, that doesn't mean government has to provide me with a gun. I have to buy that gun myself. My government is not obligated to provide me with a firearm, and neither is my employer.

what the 2nd amendment means.
Overcoming Delusions About the Second Amendment | HuffPost

 

[Coyote]

why is it one must wait months for a procedure then? why do many canadians come to doctors here in the US? If it's sooooo great and all.

Well, first, its a fallacy (deliberate?) that Canadians wait months for procedures. Its just not true in nearly all cases.

Secondly, you've heard of the concept of triage, yes? Those in need are served first. Whoa. I know, right?

Third, Canada underfunds preventative and educational services, thus much of our healthcare (as is true elsewhere in the world) is to address preventable disease which would be better funded at the prevention level. (You know, like birth control).

dude canadian, too fking funny.

Well, first, its a fallacy (deliberate?) that Canadians wait months for procedures. Its just not true in nearly all cases.
you just admitted you do have to wait so how is it a fallacy? hly fk too special.

Secondly, you've heard of the concept of triage, yes? Those in need are served first. Whoa. I know, right?
why is that, why isn't it first come first served. If my injury or sickness takes less time why not get rid of it, why treat civilians like soldiers in war?

Third, Canada underfunds preventative and educational services, thus much of our healthcare (as is true elsewhere in the world) is to address preventable disease which would be better funded at the prevention level. (You know, like birth control)

so you don't care about all people, wow,

Actually, when it comes to elective procedures we also have to wait. Those with more critical needs are seen to first. Just look at how it's handled in an emergency room. A heart attack trumps your sprained ankle.

oh so there is no difference today? hmmm that isn't what she claimed, they are better because they do that. so which is it?

I didn't say there was no difference. You have a bad habit of deliberately misstating what people say. Now try again.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You shouldn't have to pay for other people's children ... There is nothing in the Constitution that grants the federal government the power to make you pay for someone else.
In fact ... The Constitution as written, and as it exists today ... Forbids the ability of the federal government to personally enrich the individual.

You could make all kinds of arguments about what does happen ... Or how the federal government and their accessories in Congress have violated the Constitution.
It still doesn't change the text of the Constitution ... Nor give the federal government the authority to manage our healthcare concerns ... Nor employers or how they run their business.

If you think you have a valid proposal ... Then petition to change the Constitution ... Instead of trying to devise a workaround that puts the bump stock to shame.
I will tell you why the left won't attempt to change the Constitution instead of making up the crap they think it means ... Because they will lose that battle.

.

Actually..I should pay for other peoples children. Because in the long run it is better for us as a country th have an educated populace (as one example).

then for my money, I want school vouchers to get all students equal access to knowledge. why are you against that?

Is it that difficult to regulate your own vagina and uterus?

What you're literally saying is pay for my birth control or I'll get knocked up and you'll have to pay for it.

I pay for other peoples children. Why don't you pay for your own? Why should you get tax subsidies for them? Why should I pay for their schooling?

I've always paid for my own birth control, and it was thanks to planned parenthood when I was young and uninsured. I also recognize not everyone is so fortunate. I would rather subsidize birth control now then children or abortions later.

so planned parent hood handed them out with taxpayer money, so we all paid for you then. And I pay for kids who go to school, I believe everyone does that, so that is a useless argument. dig it? I don't want anyone getting subsidies for healthcare. for anything.

it is not a useless argument at all. I pay for your kids to get educated even though I have no kids. Likewise I now subsidize birthcontrol for kids I don't have. Why? Because it benefits us to have an educated workforce and subsidizing birthcontrol is cheaper than subsidizing unwanted kids, neglect and abuse, and is more ethical than abortion.

but that's what you want, it isn't what i want, why do you feel you get to decide where I spend my money? you wish to support planned parent hood send them a check and leave my tax money alone. kapeesh?

Your taxes pay for all kind of struff that you personally will never use, so why pick on planning a family? It would seem like the charitable thing to do, helping families.

Charity is freely giving your money to somebody or some people you believe are in need. Forcefully taking somebody's money and giving it to who you feel need it is theft.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As a Canadian reading some of these posts, I'm reminded that Americans have an odd (to me) notion of rights. Of course, every American has an absolute right to have a gun, despite its ultimate harm to your society. But health care? Meh. The only right to health care is what you can afford to pay for yourself, despite the fact that a healthy population benefits your society. Bizarre.

I have several guns and not one of them ever brought an "ultimate harm to society."

Our rights are listed in the US Constitution, and one of those rights is to possess a firearm. But because it is a right, that doesn't mean government has to provide me with a gun. I have to buy that gun myself. My government is not obligated to provide me with a firearm, and neither is my employer.

what the 2nd amendment means.
Overcoming Delusions About the Second Amendment | HuffPost

Thank you very much, but I'll take the Supreme Courts definition of the Second over a Huff Post blog any day of the week.

 

[Coyote]

And that is something I hope will change...

I agree, make it fking affordable and get rid of insurance companies. simple.

Do you honestly think it can be? I think that is a pipe dream.

The US spends far more than other comparable countries on healthcare Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries

But it's not just because of health insurance. A coronary bypass is 50% more in the US than Europe with its national healthcare.

oh bull hockey, doctor bills are as high as they are due to liability laws. Doctors get paid to cover malpractice insurance to protect against lawsuits.

That does add to costs in certain areas like obstetrics and I'm not adverse to making changes to that. But it isn't the only problem.

it is the number one problem. I never said it was the only one. it is the most costly one.

What makes you think it is the number one problem? In the article I linked to earlier it is barely mentioned, and where it is it is that fear of litigation causes them to order more tests so they can't be blamed for missing anything but patients themselves also demand more tests.