How do people survive on minimum wage?

[Foxfyre]

Fact: Paying a living wage encourages good people to work for you. And if their work produces profits for the person taking all the risks in the business, that is a strong incentive to pay that living wage. If paying a living wage erases whatever profits those employees are generating for the business, the jobs go away and sometimes the business also goes away. It is all interrelated.

A good employee is invaluable....

Good employees get paid good money because the owners know and respect how valuable they are to the business...

Especially with small businesses...

Obviously lazy people who are unreliable wont get paid as much.

I used to work at a shoe store when I was 17 and after 6 months I went from 5.75 to 8.00, and this was back in 1997.

I suppose my point is that if you work hard and are a good employee and are reliable you will get ahead.

I know good employees who were pushed out of their jobs at 6 months because they didn't want to give the employees a raise or fire them...so they made life a living hell for them until they quit. It's big like that in restaurants....

Sure there are a lot of shitty employers out there. I've certainly had my fair share of those. The last job I quit--which is the last job I had working for somebody other than myself--was not that long ago. And I was making very VERY good money, but the working conditions had become intolerable. I wouldn't have stayed two seconds if the money hadn't been so good. And it finally got to the point it wasn't worth it at any amount of money. So I quit and Hombre (who was trying out semi-retirement) and I went into business for ourselves. We made a lot less money, but we had a hell of a lot more fun.

The shitty employers don't keep good people. Once the word gets out, in times of full employement they can't hire good people in the first place.

But even among bosses who are saints, there are always going to be industries that need highly skilled and productive employees and they pay what it takes to get them. There are also going to be industries that cannot afford to pay much in wages but offer opportunity to a lot of people to get the experience, work ethic, and references they need to move up or that give people a chance to earn something while they look for something better or that give a job to people who simply don't have ambitions for anything better.

 

[usmcstinger]

They don't, they can't, I've been saying that for years, more than 75% of those working for minimum wage are adults and minimum wage currently has the lowest spending power in history. In the richest country in the world, the poorest worker should make a living wage.

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

So, what is the complex answer?

The callous conservative answer is, "it's all about personal responsibility"; and that CG is a simple answer and a simple solution solved by saying or thinking, "I got mine, screw the rest of them".

Personal Responsibility does not fit in the delusional world of Socialists such as you.

 

[MikeK]

I don't know what outsourcing has to do with any of this? but I'll play the game.

If you don't know what outsourcing has to do with depressing the American wage standard go to this Google page ane educate yourself. outsourcing costs jobs - Google Search

A) I love how progressives are totally pro illegal alien

That is an overtly false notion and it reeks of Rush Limbaugh-style propaganda. I, for one, have been vigorously promoting issuance of a biometric ID card, which would put an end to illegal immigration. The only left-wingers I know of who are pro-illegal alien are those who pander for political advantage.

- they come here and take jobs but you don't bitch. You bitch about outsourcing but not the fact that illegals are stealing jobs here. So now tell me what the fuck the difference is if I hire a guy in China to make a product or if I hire an illegal alien to make a product for the same fucking price?????

The main difference is the intensive technical education programs taking place in India and China which are geared specifically to doing the same jobs American workers had been performing here in the U.S. The difference being jobs that once paid American union workers $25+ an hour are now being done by foreign workers for $5 an hour.

But with very few exceptions the only jobs illegals are doing here at home are those minus-minimum wage jobs Americans don't want -- such as car wash jobs, picking produce, landscape labor, slaughterhouse work, etc. I have never seen anyone who would fit the illegal alien category doing a job which an American citizen could be doing.

Have you? And if you did, what did you do about it?

There are only 20 million illegals here - not to mention many are living off welfare and sending greenbacks back to Mexico (or wherever they're from).

Again, your belief that most Progressives feel differently about this than you do is the consequence of right-wing propaganda. I don't know anyone who does not disapprove of that.

B) Outsourcing creates cheaper products, which in turn creates a higher demand for those products which creates jobs - jobs such as more clerk jobs, transportation, manufacturing etc so in the end the money and jobs come right back to us when we outsource.

You are talking about the temporary effect, which totally ignores the long-term consequence of such specious economic reasoning. We are just beginning to see the full effect of those consequences in the millions of unemployed former middle class workers.

Again, you need to educate yourself and stop believing what the right-wing propagandists tell you. They are all multi-millionaires, and while you don't know it yet they are your enemy unless you are one of them.

So would you rather pay $250.00 for your flat screen TV or $2,500? would you rather pay $50 bucks for your shoes or $150.00???

Those are absurd exaggerations. I'm sure those items, as well as many others, would cost more were it not for the effects of outsourcing, but the American consumers would be able to afford more if their economic stability were not undermined as it is now.

Again, you are impressed by the temporary effect. But unless you are among the wealthy you are not going to like the payoff that's coming.

If union employees made all this shit it would be expensive and a lot of people would not buy these products - that would equal less jobs due to the lack of demand.

Then explain the middle class prosperity which existed between the 40s and 80s -- when Reaganomics commenced the decline. Things cost more but workers earned more. The economy was healthy. Now look what's happening to your country. But you need to open your eyes first.

Yeah, you can afford $250.00 for a TV but $2,500???

Nonsense. A $2,500 price tag for a tv would be self-defeating. $300 is more like it.

 

[usmcstinger]

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees.

There is no such thing as 'shipping jobs overseas.'

Jobs do not have birthrights.

They come and go, and are often simply displaced by technology or other causes.

All you can do as a government to 'create jobs' is make conditions good for those greedy, greedy fatcat businessmen to open up shop and hopefully hire people.

As long as the anti-business Leftists are in control, jobs will continue to be created in greener pastures.

The best way to keep US companies here and get foreign companies to relocate here is to make our country the most business friendly in the world.

 

[Foxfyre]

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees.

There is no such thing as 'shipping jobs overseas.'

Jobs do not have birthrights.

They come and go, and are often simply displaced by technology or other causes.

All you can do as a government to 'create jobs' is make conditions good for those greedy, greedy fatcat businessmen to open up shop and hopefully hire people.

As long as the anti-business Leftists are in control, jobs will continue to be created in greener pastures.

The best way to keep US companies here and get foreign companies to relocate here is to make our country the most business friendly in the world.

Well, technically we don't 'ship jobs overseas' but when it becomes much more profitable to conduct business in India or China or some other country that doesn't impose artificial requirements and/or oppressive taxes and regulation on the employers, it only makes sense to end or reduce operations here and create jobs over there.

To keep jobs in the United States, there has to be a climate that makes it significantly more profitable to put people to work here than it does to hire people overseas.

 

[MikeK]

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees.

There is no such thing as 'shipping jobs overseas.'

Of course there is -- and the practice is seriously damaging your Country. Unfortunately you've tuned in to the right-wing propaganda machine.

Jobs do not have birthrights.

"Birthrights" is not the right word. The right word would be protection, which unfortunately does not exist. And the reason it doesn't exist is corruption of our Legislature.

They come and go, and are often simply displaced by technology or other causes.

The only jobs that "come and go" are jobs in businesses that fail. So it is only correct to say some businesses "come and go." And when one business goes it should follow that another business opens, with jobs to be filled. The problem is when American businesses, which were developed by exploiting American material, administrative and human resources, "go" -- to China, India, Mexico, etc., those Americans who worked at those jobs are displaced. And what we have today is an increasing number of displaced American workers.

All you can do as a government to 'create jobs' is make conditions good for those greedy, greedy fatcat businessmen to open up shop and hopefully hire people.

Wrong! What government can do is legislate controls and regulations (which formerly existed) that protect the American worker from the kind of economic treachery demonstrated by those American corporations which have turned their back on the Nation that gave them birth.

As long as the anti-business Leftists are in control, jobs will continue to be created in greener pastures.

Leftists are not "anti-business." That would be simply dumb. They are anti-corporatism, which is an increasing problem you need to learn more about.

 

[Foxfyre]

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees.

There is no such thing as 'shipping jobs overseas.'

Of course there is -- and the practice is seriously damaging your Country. Unfortunately you've tuned in to the right-wing propaganda machine.


"Birthrights" is not the right word. The right word would be protection, which unfortunately does not exist. And the reason it doesn't exist is corruption of our Legislature.


The only jobs that "come and go" are jobs in businesses that fail. So it is only correct to say some businesses "come and go." And when one business goes it should follow that another business opens, with jobs to be filled. The problem is when American businesses, which were developed by exploiting American material, administrative and human resources, "go" -- to China, India, Mexico, etc., those Americans who worked at those jobs are displaced. And what we have today is an increasing number of displaced American workers.

All you can do as a government to 'create jobs' is make conditions good for those greedy, greedy fatcat businessmen to open up shop and hopefully hire people.

Wrong! What government can do is legislate controls and regulations (which formerly existed) that protect the American worker from the kind of economic treachery demonstrated by those American corporations which have turned their back on the Nation that gave them birth.

As long as the anti-business Leftists are in control, jobs will continue to be created in greener pastures.

Leftists are not "anti-business." That would be simply dumb. They are anti-corporatism, which is an increasing problem you need to learn more about.

Depends on how you define corporatism. There are many business owners who would not take the risk of being in business at all if they could not incorporate and thereby safeguard themselves and/or their families against some of the liability risks involved in conducting business.

But excessive and unnecessary regulation, higher taxation on business than what exists in most of the free world, unfunded mandates sometimes necessary and sometimes not, unions with power and government sanction and privilege not enjoyed in most other countries, and yes, an arbitrary minimum wage, can all be anti-business factors. Many or most of these at least factor into a decision to move business operations overseas. And very few of them originated with or are pushed by the right.

 

[SniperFire]

Leftists are not "anti-business." That would be simply dumb. They are anti-corporatism, which is an increasing problem you need to learn more about.

Your lip-service is meaningless.

But don't take MY word for it:

Jan. 22 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. investors overwhelmingly see President Barack Obama as anti-business and question his ability to manage a financial crisis, according to a Bloomberg survey.

The global quarterly poll of investors and analysts who are Bloomberg subscribers finds that 77 percent of U.S. respondents believe Obama is too anti-business and four-out-of-five are only somewhat confident or not confident of his ability to handle a financial emergency.

The poll also finds a decline in Obama’s overall favorability rating one year after taking office. He is viewed favorably by 27 percent of U.S. investors. In an October poll, 32 percent in the U.S. held a positive impression.

“Investors no longer feel they can trust their instincts to take risks,” said poll respondent David Young, a managing director for a broker dealer in New York.'

Bloomberg - Business, Financial & Economic News, Stock Quotes ve&sid=a8UiI1bCRdmY

 

[MikeK]

[Depends on how you define corporatism.

There is only one definition for corporatism and it refers to the corporate state, which is the primary component of fascism.

There are many business owners who would not take the risk of being in business at all if they could not incorporate and thereby safeguard themselves and/or their families against some of the liability risks involved in conducting business.

Corporatism is to corporate legal status what gang rape is to consensual sex. Two entirely different things. One consequence of the bottom-line effect of Reaganomics deregulation on the corporate world is analogous to legalizing gang rape.

But excessive and unnecessary regulation, higher taxation on business than what exists in most of the free world, unfunded mandates sometimes necessary and sometimes not, unions with power and government sanction and privilege not enjoyed in most other countries, and yes, an arbitrary minimum wage, can all be anti-business factors. Many or most of these at least factor into a decision to move business operations overseas. And very few of them originated with or are pushed by the right.

If you are talking about specific examples of such impositions, please list them. There is no question that abusive practices occur in all fields of endeavor, but whether they are exceptions or the rule is pivotal. And if such abuses exist the only acceptable means of dealing with them is constructive legislation -- not by transferring the substance of our national wealth resource to foreign entities as if it were perfectly okay to do that.

 

[Againsheila]

Sheila is NOT a keynesian moron and she has been conducting a quite civil debate from her point of view.

The only quarrel any of us might have with her is that she is seeing the issue only from the perspective of the employee and not from the perspective of the employer and why he or she would hire somebody in the first place.

Thanks Foxy. I really wish more people on this board could actually debate without resorting to insults and name calling.

Sheila... you are one I actually LIKE debating with... so I hope you don't think that I look to insult you or anything like that... I save that for the trolls like TDM

Yeah, TDM does seem to get on the bad side of EVERYONE.

 

[Againsheila]

I don't know what outsourcing has to do with any of this? but I'll play the game..

A) I love how progressives are totally pro illegal alien - they come here and take jobs but you don't bitch. You bitch about outsourcing but not the fact that illegals are stealing jobs here. So now tell me what the fuck the difference is if I hire a guy in China to make a product or if I hire an illegal alien to make a product for the same fucking price????? There are only 20 million illegals here - not to mention many are living off welfare and sending greenbacks back to Mexico (or wherever they're from).

B) Outsourcing creates cheaper products, which in turn creates a higher demand for those products which creates jobs - jobs such as more clerk jobs, transportation, manufacturing etc so in the end the money and jobs come right back to us when we outsource.

So would you rather pay $250.00 for your flat screen TV or $2,500? would you rather pay $50 bucks for your shoes or $150.00???

If union employees made all this shit it would be expensive and a lot of people would not buy these products - that would equal less jobs due to the lack of demand.

Yeah, you can afford $250.00 for a TV but $2,500???

I saw Seattle calendars side by side, one made in Hong Kong, one made in the USA. Guess what? The Hong Kong calendar cost more.

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees. I still can't believe Michael Jorden got paid more for doing ONE commercial for Niki than all their other employees were paid in a YEAR! I don't buy those shoes.

Heck, I would rather stand in line in the grocery store than go through the self check out, I believe in supporting jobs in the USA and all that costs me is time.

Oh, and I'm just as upset about the illegals and GUEST workers coming into this country to take our jobs and reduce our wages as I am with the companies going overseas to find cheaper workers or to get out of paying taxes.

95% of products manufactured via outsourcing are cheaper than the products made here.

I'll say it again - the cheaper the product the more demand - the more expensive the product the less demand.

Demand creates jobs....

I would love it if we manufactured all our products here in the USA but the truth is that unions are so greedy and expensive and that goes right into the cost of the product. Not to mention the shit we do manufacture here - the components to make those items are from overseas anyways - they just assemble that shit here (which is one of the problems with a flat tax but that is a different topic).

My point is that the cheaper the product the more you sell of that said product hence the more business hence the more casheers and the more shipping and more gas sold etc....

So outsourcing itself creates jobs just because it keeps demand up due to the cheap prices.

Oh and as far as what we pay those in other countries........ Yeah we may pay 2-3 bucks an hour but at the same time that 2-3 bucks an hour converted to their currency is like 10-12 bucks an hour.... Of course that is why these items are so cheap... Despite all the economic shit our dollar is still worth a lot around the world....

Boeing blamed the 787 debacle on the unions. They OUTSOURCED the jobs because they said they could get cheaper labor. Then, the union jobs end up fixing the mess caused by those outsourcing. My husband was kept busy for months trying to figure out ways to make all those parts that didn't fit go together. The company is still blaming the unions for the delay in the delivery and the massive problems due to the outsourcing. Yeah, I guess in a way outsourcing does create jobs, it sure made jobs for Boeing here in the USA.

AS for those overseas jobs, yeah, I know the pay is good for them, why do you think I offered to follow my job? I could live a lot better on $4.00 an hour in India than I can on $8.50 an hour here. Funny house those jobs are for THEIR citizens. Why is it that we're the only country in the world that doesn't protect jobs for our own citizens? BTW, even China had a minimum wage. I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of the minimum wage and having a maximum wage like Japan....I mean, do you honestly believe those CEOs EARN 500 times more money than their employees?

Unions are not the reason why jobs were sent overseas. Changes in tax law, rewards for outsourcing and changes is government regulation is the cause of our jobs being outsourced.

 

[Againsheila]

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees.

There is no such thing as 'shipping jobs overseas.'

Jobs do not have birthrights.

They come and go, and are often simply displaced by technology or other causes.

All you can do as a government to 'create jobs' is make conditions good for those greedy, greedy fatcat businessmen to open up shop and hopefully hire people.

As long as the anti-business Leftists are in control, jobs will continue to be created in greener pastures.

Anti business leftist? Corporations give campaign donations to BOTH parties. Clinton signed every free trade agreement that crossed his desk. AND our government PAID business to relocate overseas. Name ONE other country that takes it's own people's money to encourage businesses to build their factories overseas?

 

[Againsheila]

A good employee is invaluable....

Good employees get paid good money because the owners know and respect how valuable they are to the business...

Especially with small businesses...

Obviously lazy people who are unreliable wont get paid as much.

I used to work at a shoe store when I was 17 and after 6 months I went from 5.75 to 8.00, and this was back in 1997.

I suppose my point is that if you work hard and are a good employee and are reliable you will get ahead.

I know good employees who were pushed out of their jobs at 6 months because they didn't want to give the employees a raise or fire them...so they made life a living hell for them until they quit. It's big like that in restaurants....

Sure there are a lot of shitty employers out there. I've certainly had my fair share of those. The last job I quit--which is the last job I had working for somebody other than myself--was not that long ago. And I was making very VERY good money, but the working conditions had become intolerable. I wouldn't have stayed two seconds if the money hadn't been so good. And it finally got to the point it wasn't worth it at any amount of money. So I quit and Hombre (who was trying out semi-retirement) and I went into business for ourselves. We made a lot less money, but we had a hell of a lot more fun.

The shitty employers don't keep good people. Once the word gets out, in times of full employement they can't hire good people in the first place.

But even among bosses who are saints, there are always going to be industries that need highly skilled and productive employees and they pay what it takes to get them. There are also going to be industries that cannot afford to pay much in wages but offer opportunity to a lot of people to get the experience, work ethic, and references they need to move up or that give people a chance to earn something while they look for something better or that give a job to people who simply don't have ambitions for anything better.

We are not in times of full employment, and have not been for some years.

 

[Samson]

.

Do you really think that if the mw goes up that hotels suddenly won't need maids, or farmers won't need pickers?

Yes.

You see, hotels sell their rooms for a rate.

Farmers sell their produce.

The price and the demand are inversely related (as price goes up, demand goes down).

To maintain the before tax profit margin = (selling price - production cost), if the cost rises, then the price must rise, and demand will decline.

Once demand declines, then there will be less need for maid service and tomatoe pickers.

This is Economics 101

Took econ 101, I think you missed some key classes. supply AND demand. They go together. If the people picking the tomatoes can now afford to buy them, they will sell more tomatoes, not less. Henry Ford discovered that when he instituted the first mw in our country and suddenly his workers could afford to buy his product and his sales and profits sky rocketed.

You astonishingly poor grasp of simple economic theory is both fascinating and unbelievable.

You are clearly trolling.



Well, its been a slice: I'll let others entertain you.

***unsubscribes***

 

[Foxfyre]

I know good employees who were pushed out of their jobs at 6 months because they didn't want to give the employees a raise or fire them...so they made life a living hell for them until they quit. It's big like that in restaurants....

Sure there are a lot of shitty employers out there. I've certainly had my fair share of those. The last job I quit--which is the last job I had working for somebody other than myself--was not that long ago. And I was making very VERY good money, but the working conditions had become intolerable. I wouldn't have stayed two seconds if the money hadn't been so good. And it finally got to the point it wasn't worth it at any amount of money. So I quit and Hombre (who was trying out semi-retirement) and I went into business for ourselves. We made a lot less money, but we had a hell of a lot more fun.

The shitty employers don't keep good people. Once the word gets out, in times of full employement they can't hire good people in the first place.

But even among bosses who are saints, there are always going to be industries that need highly skilled and productive employees and they pay what it takes to get them. There are also going to be industries that cannot afford to pay much in wages but offer opportunity to a lot of people to get the experience, work ethic, and references they need to move up or that give people a chance to earn something while they look for something better or that give a job to people who simply don't have ambitions for anything better.

We are not in times of full employment, and have not been for some years.

No we haven't. But the best, actually the ONLY, way to get a whole lot more really good employers and a lot more good paying jobs is to implement poliicies that encourage full employment by the private sector. That is the best possible scenario for those who work for a living. In times of full employment, it is a seller's market for the good worker who has skills and a work ethic to sell.

 

[MikeK]

Leftists are not "anti-business." That would be simply dumb. They are anti-corporatism, which is an increasing problem you need to learn more about.

Your lip-service is meaningless.

But don't take MY word for it:

Jan. 22 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. investors overwhelmingly see President Barack Obama as anti-business and question his ability to manage a financial crisis, according to a Bloomberg survey.

The global quarterly poll of investors and analysts who are Bloomberg subscribers finds that 77 percent of U.S. respondents believe Obama is too anti-business and four-out-of-five are only somewhat confident or not confident of his ability to handle a financial emergency.

The poll also finds a decline in Obama’s overall favorability rating one year after taking office. He is viewed favorably by 27 percent of U.S. investors. In an October poll, 32 percent in the U.S. held a positive impression.

“Investors no longer feel they can trust their instincts to take risks,” said poll respondent David Young, a managing director for a broker dealer in New York.'

Bloomberg - Business, Financial & Economic News, Stock Quotes ve&sid=a8UiI1bCRdmY

77% of the investor class blame Obama. Now find out who 77% of the working class blames for their situation. It's not Obama. He didn't sink the economy. He inherited the mess.

These investor class sonsabitches are a big part of the reason why the economy is in the toilet. And I'm not talking about the small-time investor (like me) who has a few thousand dollars in bonds. I'm talking about the Wall Streeters who accumulate fortunes by producing nothing more than the motion of numbers on computer screens. These are the "investors" Bloomberg is talking about. How confident were these investors when Bush was busily wrecking the Economy?

What these "investors" are concerned with is the possibility that a second-term Obama might be receptive to the pressure being applied by an increasingly informed working class and start raising taxes and closing the loopholes that transformed the rich investor class to super-rich.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes.

You see, hotels sell their rooms for a rate.

Farmers sell their produce.

The price and the demand are inversely related (as price goes up, demand goes down).

To maintain the before tax profit margin = (selling price - production cost), if the cost rises, then the price must rise, and demand will decline.

Once demand declines, then there will be less need for maid service and tomatoe pickers.

This is Economics 101

Took econ 101, I think you missed some key classes. supply AND demand. They go together. If the people picking the tomatoes can now afford to buy them, they will sell more tomatoes, not less. Henry Ford discovered that when he instituted the first mw in our country and suddenly his workers could afford to buy his product and his sales and profits sky rocketed.

You astonishingly poor grasp of simple economic theory is both fascinating and unbelievable.

You are clearly trolling.



Well, its been a slice: I'll let others entertain you.

***unsubscribes***

Well, she's right in the sense that if incomes increase then the supply/demand curve shifts.
She is wrong historically that Ford was hardly a philanthropist in his business. He could not attract workers for his factories, which were considered dull demeaning work. So he raised wages until he put all the machine shops out of work. Then he lowered wages again.

 

[Againsheila]

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees.

There is no such thing as 'shipping jobs overseas.'

Jobs do not have birthrights.

They come and go, and are often simply displaced by technology or other causes.

All you can do as a government to 'create jobs' is make conditions good for those greedy, greedy fatcat businessmen to open up shop and hopefully hire people.

As long as the anti-business Leftists are in control, jobs will continue to be created in greener pastures.

The best way to keep US companies here and get foreign companies to relocate here is to make our country the most business friendly in the world.

Wrong...we had more business and corporations when we weren't so friendlye. Did you know that in the 50's, they paid 38% of our income with their taxes? Today they pay less than 4% of our income, yet they are all leaving in droves....hmm, more friendly, less jobs....reality doesn't quite fit your picture, does it?

 

[Inthemiddle]

Ah, the lovely netherlands...

Where doctors can euthanise you without your permission. Or anybody else's.

Where post-abortion is A-Ok.

Where nazism is alive & well!

Yes, the Netherlands. A veritable utopia. Particularly if you're a drug addict. It's the bee's knees then!

"With Germany Against Capitalism"

NAZISM AND THE DUTCH NSB

Would you please shut the fuck up with that nonsense. Why'd this idiot get unbanned?

 

[Borillar]

I saw Seattle calendars side by side, one made in Hong Kong, one made in the USA. Guess what? The Hong Kong calendar cost more.

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees. I still can't believe Michael Jorden got paid more for doing ONE commercial for Niki than all their other employees were paid in a YEAR! I don't buy those shoes.

Heck, I would rather stand in line in the grocery store than go through the self check out, I believe in supporting jobs in the USA and all that costs me is time.

Oh, and I'm just as upset about the illegals and GUEST workers coming into this country to take our jobs and reduce our wages as I am with the companies going overseas to find cheaper workers or to get out of paying taxes.

95% of products manufactured via outsourcing are cheaper than the products made here.

I'll say it again - the cheaper the product the more demand - the more expensive the product the less demand.

Demand creates jobs....

I would love it if we manufactured all our products here in the USA but the truth is that unions are so greedy and expensive and that goes right into the cost of the product. Not to mention the shit we do manufacture here - the components to make those items are from overseas anyways - they just assemble that shit here (which is one of the problems with a flat tax but that is a different topic).

My point is that the cheaper the product the more you sell of that said product hence the more business hence the more casheers and the more shipping and more gas sold etc....

So outsourcing itself creates jobs just because it keeps demand up due to the cheap prices.

Oh and as far as what we pay those in other countries........ Yeah we may pay 2-3 bucks an hour but at the same time that 2-3 bucks an hour converted to their currency is like 10-12 bucks an hour.... Of course that is why these items are so cheap... Despite all the economic shit our dollar is still worth a lot around the world....

Boeing blamed the 787 debacle on the unions. They OUTSOURCED the jobs because they said they could get cheaper labor. Then, the union jobs end up fixing the mess caused by those outsourcing. My husband was kept busy for months trying to figure out ways to make all those parts that didn't fit go together. The company is still blaming the unions for the delay in the delivery and the massive problems due to the outsourcing. Yeah, I guess in a way outsourcing does create jobs, it sure made jobs for Boeing here in the USA.

AS for those overseas jobs, yeah, I know the pay is good for them, why do you think I offered to follow my job? I could live a lot better on $4.00 an hour in India than I can on $8.50 an hour here. Funny house those jobs are for THEIR citizens. Why is it that we're the only country in the world that doesn't protect jobs for our own citizens? BTW, even China had a minimum wage. I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of the minimum wage and having a maximum wage like Japan....I mean, do you honestly believe those CEOs EARN 500 times more money than their employees?

Unions are not the reason why jobs were sent overseas. Changes in tax law, rewards for outsourcing and changes is government regulation is the cause of our jobs being outsourced.

Yeah, it's all the greedy unions' fault that jobs are being outsourced even though they are only ~10 - 12% of the workforce.

I don't know what that guy is smoking who claims that progressives are pro-illegal immigrants. If anything it is the wealthy conservative "job creators" who are at fault for hiring them. Maybe if the "job creators" would quit hiring illegals, they would all go back to where they came from.

A lot of outsourcing in high tech has been because of corporate misuse of the H-1B visas. Companies bring in engineers and scientists from India and Asia, train them in our technology and business practices. After 3 years, they go back and go to work for our competitors.