How is government in way of Business??

[oreo]

M R.CLEAN STATED:

What if this so called electrician fucked up the job and your house burned down? Do you think your insurance company is going to be forthcoming with payment when they find out your service panel was installed and wired by an amateur electrician?

ALL electrical contractors within each state are regulated by the department of regulatory agencies within each state by the state electrical board. They are required to pass journeyman exams--master electrician exams--and carry general libability insurance.

IT HAS ABSOLUTELY nothing--I REPEAT NOTHING-- to do with being UNION or NON-UNION.

MORON

Where does it say anything about union or non-union?

MR. Clean was indicating that if you're not a UNION plumber or electrician--that you do not have to meet each state's requirement under their department's of regulatory agencies to obtain a professional license--which is complete B.S. And all of us Non-Union and Union construction contractors are required by the state and local building departments to carry General Liability Insurance--for the work we do.

I know--I am a 30+ year licensed electrical NON-UNION contractor in the state of Colorado. I have the exact same licensing requirement and hold the exact same licenses as any union contractor. As do plumbers and everyone else in the construction industry.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So you'd be perfectly comfortable letting an unlicensed electrician or plumber work on your house?

Or how about allowing an unlicensed "doctor" do a bypass operation?

And maybe we should just do away with driver's licenses and just let anybody drive a car.

Typical of you libs to spin this in that manner.
Yeah right..We want NO rules.
Don't be stupid. Of course there is a need for regulation. The problem is government has gone off the deep end with burdensome regulations, capriciuos rule changes, and selective enforcement.
Licensure of any trade or profession would not exist if one or two things ,or both, never occured. First, the willingness of a trade or profession to police itself. Or, the political angle where government uses licensure as a tool to raise revenue.
We're not duscussing that.
The issue here is THIS presidential admin and others which have decided to place a stranglehold on success and profit.
In this particualr climate, the unknown is prevalent. Business and industry has two potential obstacles in the way. One is taxes. Business has no clue how much this admin is going to add to the tax burden of business. There is Cap and Trade. That in and of itslef would send energy costs skyrocketing. Obama said so himself during the '08 campaign. He said under his plan electricity costs would necessarily skyrocket. Those are HIS words!!!!!
Obama also said "I'd be comfortable with $4 gasoline.
IN addition to Obama's meddling with energy , business also has to deal with the potential fallout from Obamacare.
At the end of the day companies are not going to hire employees they might very likely have to let go in the face of these increased costs from governemnt mandates.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one side of your mouth, you're acknowledging the need for regulation, while the other is insisting that govt regs are a "shakedown"

And in the real world, "taxes" <> "regulations" and besides, businesses never know what taxes the govt will be raising in the future. That's not new with Obama.

Bottom line: You can't identify one regulation that is a "shakedown".

You go find where I specifically stated to implied government regulation is a "shakedown"..
I stated that certain governments use licensce fees as a means to increase revenue. That's not a "shakedown"..
A shakedown would be if a government officail in one way or another communcates to an individual or business that if they do not "play ball" that person or business can expect "trouble"....THAT would be a shakedown. And BTW, in some places that is exactly what does occur. It is done by certain unscrupulous employees of government that have too much authority and not enough oversight. And example would be the plumbing inspector who wants his palm greased to get to a job to perform and inspection in a timely manner.
The regualtion itself is not the shakdown. It is the individual employee that is the shaker-down.
Don't make shit up to support your weak assed argument. That the equivalent of having a battleship mouth and a rowboat ass.

 

[shintao]

Not sure I follow your logic here.
BTW union membership in the private sector is at an alltime low of 7%.
We have nothing to fear from unions.

That is quite true, no fear, yet that is what the right squeals about, has nightmares about.

They are on their way out of the private sector. Now if we could just get rid of public worker unions, the country would be in much better shape.

No, they will never be out of the private sector, because someone has to do what only trained skilled organized craftsmen can do.

Ahh yes/...The old "only union people are skilled" nonsense.
BY that analogy there are no skilled people in the 28 states that do not have forced unionization of trades. Of course that is absurd.
Look, unions are nothing but a big pain in the ass. That is why they are on the way out.
The simplest of all reasons why unions suck is "I don't like how much you pay me so I am not coming to work and you can't fire me".....Oh really? Watch me. BYE!.

You must be from the Unicorn Ranch? I have never heard such nonsense. Just because your not skilled, doesn't mean you have to hate those who are.

Next.
If unions were such a benefit to workers and unions GUARANTEED their workers are better than everyone else then why is it no one wants to deal with unions?..Jeez, by any stretch a business would adore union labor. After all, you said it....Union workers are the only ones with any skills.

Who doesn't want to deal with unions? You are a complete imbecile on this subject,...well OddBall is another unicron case.

Cut the crap.
A worker used to the virtual protections of job security and work rules that make it impossible to be productive could not and would refuse to do my job. I don't take breaks by the clock. I often skip lunch so I can get my stuff accomplished so I can get home early. I don't bitch and moan about having some union approved tool. Or have a tool that the union prohibits because it helps me do what I need to faster and more efficiently. I don't constantly look at the clock and when it tells me a certain time so I can drop what I am doing and announce "break time"...I get to the end of my task, then I take 5....Unions despise and prohibit merit and productivity. In the union world working to quickly or effficently is bad becasue there are less days of work that the union can milk the clock.
Lastly and most importantly I do not have the adversarial relationship with my employer that unions demand their members have with their employers.
Unions.......

Yeah, I walked through ten miles of snow to go to school, and you must milk studs on the Unicorn Ranch, bullshitting scab laborer. Scab winos, go sniff your cork!!! LOL!!

 

[Oddball]

I bet Oddball can't come up with one way that the big gubbermint hurts him in any way with their big bad regulations.

I bet I can name 20 ways the government helps him right off the top of my head.

Any takers?

I came up with one...You simply refuse to accept the example. Indeed, you want to argue that the meddlesome rules, regulations and bureaucracies are a benefit, even though you personally don't have to deal with them and pay for the "benefits" directly out of your pocket.

Just like all good Fabian socialists, you like visible beneficiaries and invisible casualties. Likewise, when the costs get driven up to borderline prohibitive levels because of your do-goodery, as in the example of FDA red tape driving R&D costs sky high, you then turn around and blame the eeeeeviilllll corporations.

There's absolutely no wining with you schmucks.

What, you own a pharmaceutical company? I doubt it. Maybe a street corner pharmacy is more your speed.

I said you personally odball. How does the government stop you, today, from hiring a worker?

The question here is how Big Daddy Big Gubmint gets in the way of doing business, not whether or not I personally am in that particular business.

Thanks for trying to change the subject and making me look like a clairvoyant, though.

 

[LiberalNut]

Non-Union guys, while they have to meet the same requirements for licensure, usually don't go through multi-year apprenticeships like the union guys do. Union ironworkers get 3-year apprenticeships with classes every saturday and direct supervision by a master ironworker while on the job site.

Thus a 1st year journeyman ironworker is better than a 1st year scab on average.

 

[LiberalNut]

The question here is how Big Daddy Big Gubmint gets in the way of doing business

YOUR business oddball. I mean, you're laughably telling me, who could buy and sell you, that you are this great businessman. So I'm asking you personally. How is the government stopping YOU from hiring a worker?

tick tock
tick tock

 

[sangha]

M R.CLEAN STATED:

ALL electrical contractors within each state are regulated by the department of regulatory agencies within each state by the state electrical board. They are required to pass journeyman exams--master electrician exams--and carry general libability insurance.

IT HAS ABSOLUTELY nothing--I REPEAT NOTHING-- to do with being UNION or NON-UNION.

MORON

Where does it say anything about union or non-union?

MR. Clean was indicating that if you're not a UNION plumber or electrician--that you do not have to meet each state's requirement under their department's of regulatory agencies to obtain a professional license--which is complete B.S.

I know--I am a 30+ year licensed electrical NON-UNION contractor in the state of Colorado. I have the exact same licensing requirement and hold the exact same licenses as any union contractor. As do plumbers and everyone else in the construction industry.

That's a load.

I see nothing indicating their UNION status is an issue. The quote you posted says nothing about non-union plumbers/electricians not needing to be licensed. You're the one posting BS

 

[Oddball]

The question here is how Big Daddy Big Gubmint gets in the way of doing business

YOUR business oddball. I mean, you're laughably telling me, who could buy and sell you, that you are this great businessman. So I'm asking you personally. How is the government stopping YOU from hiring a worker?

tick tock
tick tock

Wrong.

Go back and read the OP for comprehension.

The premise is not about anyone in particular, let alone me.

Goalpost move: Fail.

 

[LiberalNut]

So all that bullshit about "what business have you ever run" is exactly that, bullshit. Right? You couldn't run a one car funeral. If the mental capacity required is beyond reading and regurgitating sections of right wing propaganda, you can't fucking do it.

I bet you still live with Mom.

 

[sangha]

Typical of you libs to spin this in that manner.
Yeah right..We want NO rules.
Don't be stupid. Of course there is a need for regulation. The problem is government has gone off the deep end with burdensome regulations, capriciuos rule changes, and selective enforcement.
Licensure of any trade or profession would not exist if one or two things ,or both, never occured. First, the willingness of a trade or profession to police itself. Or, the political angle where government uses licensure as a tool to raise revenue.
We're not duscussing that.
The issue here is THIS presidential admin and others which have decided to place a stranglehold on success and profit.
In this particualr climate, the unknown is prevalent. Business and industry has two potential obstacles in the way. One is taxes. Business has no clue how much this admin is going to add to the tax burden of business. There is Cap and Trade. That in and of itslef would send energy costs skyrocketing. Obama said so himself during the '08 campaign. He said under his plan electricity costs would necessarily skyrocket. Those are HIS words!!!!!
Obama also said "I'd be comfortable with $4 gasoline.
IN addition to Obama's meddling with energy , business also has to deal with the potential fallout from Obamacare.
At the end of the day companies are not going to hire employees they might very likely have to let go in the face of these increased costs from governemnt mandates.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one side of your mouth, you're acknowledging the need for regulation, while the other is insisting that govt regs are a "shakedown"

And in the real world, "taxes" <> "regulations" and besides, businesses never know what taxes the govt will be raising in the future. That's not new with Obama.

Bottom line: You can't identify one regulation that is a "shakedown".

You go find where I specifically stated to implied government regulation is a "shakedown"..
I stated that certain governments use licensce fees as a means to increase revenue. That's not a "shakedown"..
A shakedown would be if a government officail in one way or another communcates to an individual or business that if they do not "play ball" that person or business can expect "trouble"....THAT would be a shakedown. And BTW, in some places that is exactly what does occur. It is done by certain unscrupulous employees of government that have too much authority and not enough oversight. And example would be the plumbing inspector who wants his palm greased to get to a job to perform and inspection in a timely manner.
The regualtion itself is not the shakdown. It is the individual employee that is the shaker-down.
Don't make shit up to support your weak assed argument. That the equivalent of having a battleship mouth and a rowboat ass.

Some Govt regulatory agencies collect fees, but none do it "to increase revenue"; they do it to help pay for their operations. The way you described it, as a payment for which they get nothing in return, is indeed a "shakedown". If the business doesn't "play ball" (by paying), they can expect "trouble" (in the form of the govt shutting their business down)

And fines relating to inspections, etc can be appealed. All you have to do is prove you followed the rules. It's not that hard.

Unless you're a stupid wingnut businessman who thinks some govt pencil pusher has the final say.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Non-Union guys, while they have to meet the same requirements for licensure, usually don't go through multi-year apprenticeships like the union guys do. Union ironworkers get 3-year apprenticeships with classes every saturday and direct supervision by a master ironworker while on the job site.

Thus a 1st year journeyman ironworker is better than a 1st year scab on average.

And how do you explain that little accident in the Big Dig tunnel( constructed by skilled and infallable union labor) a few years ago...
You know which accident.....The one where the roof fell in and killed a motorist.
The one where the unions quickly jumped and said " it's not our guys. It was management's fault. No , wait ....It was the panel manufacturer's fault.....No ,, it was the government's fault....
You still cannot get around the fact that probably 90% of all construction tradespeople are NOT union..
BTW you're so up on union shit then why is it you cannot use the term "scab" properly?
A scab is a person not a union member who crosses a picket line to take a job previously held by a union member.
A scab is NOT simply a worker who refuses to or is not required by law to join a union.
I have never been a union member,. Does that make ME a scab.. 93% of all private sector workers are non union. Does that make them all scabs?

 

[LiberalNut]

I know how many are union and how many aren't. I know that union guys are better too. You didn't counter one word of what i said. Not one word. You offered a non-sequitur.

You're a dumb-dumb.

 

[sangha]

Non-Union guys, while they have to meet the same requirements for licensure, usually don't go through multi-year apprenticeships like the union guys do. Union ironworkers get 3-year apprenticeships with classes every saturday and direct supervision by a master ironworker while on the job site.

Thus a 1st year journeyman ironworker is better than a 1st year scab on average.

And how do you explain that little accident in the Big Dig tunnel( constructed by skilled and infallable union labor) a few years ago...
You know which accident.....The one where the roof fell in and killed a motorist.
The one where the unions quickly jumped and said " it's not our guys. It was management's fault. No , wait ....It was the panel manufacturer's fault.....No ,, it was the government's fault....
You still cannot get around the fact that probably 90% of all construction tradespeople are NOT union..

anecdote <> statistic

 

[shintao]

One only needs to look at the mess in Haiti following the earthquake to see the value in building codes ( or the lack thereof).

Since I am a small business contractor in the building industry and have been for over 30+ years--YES you're right in Haiti where there exists no building or concrete--soil tests--and stress factors--buildings do collapse.

BUT in the United States we not only have those kind of enginerring requirements--but we have regulatory government agencies--that add NON--critical items to plumbing--electrical--and other than have absolutely nothing to do with safety--but are new codes to fill someone's else's pockets--that add to the cost of construction in the United States--that are non-neccessary to safety--that YOU get to pay for.

And that's exactly how government gets in the way of prosperity. If you don't believe me--take a set of resisdential plans to you local building department and see what they require--LOL.

Ahh, another victim wanting his home for his family without codes. Something about rightys makes them suicide cases. They sleep better knowing their home was built by nonunion labor without permits or codes, and the hall light is jumping electricity between two wires. The rats in the kitchen that came in under the exterior door are enjoying cake in the kitchen as they sing, "No mo government in mah way!"

 

[LiberalNut]

If you go with union labor, your shit will be to code.

 

[sangha]

One only needs to look at the mess in Haiti following the earthquake to see the value in building codes ( or the lack thereof).

Since I am a small business contractor in the building industry and have been for over 30+ years--YES you're right in Haiti where there exists no building or concrete--soil tests--and stress factors--buildings do collapse.

BUT in the United States we not only have those kind of enginerring requirements--but we have regulatory government agencies--that add NON--critical items to plumbing--electrical--and other than have absolutely nothing to do with safety--but are new codes to fill someone's else's pockets--that add to the cost of construction in the United States--that are non-neccessary to safety--that YOU get to pay for.

And that's exactly how government gets in the way of prosperity. If you don't believe me--take a set of resisdential plans to you local building department and see what they require--LOL.

Ahh, another victim wanting his home for his family without codes. Something about rightys makes them suicide cases. The sleep better knowing their home was built by nonunion labor without permits or codes, and the hall light is jumping electricity between two wires.

And with 30+ years experience, he can't name one specific regulation and explain how it prevents anyone from hiring anyone.

 

[LiberalNut]

Every single building code is there because somebody, at LEAST one somebody fucking died.

 

[Oddball]

So all that bullshit about "what business have you ever run" is exactly that, bullshit. Right? You couldn't run a one car funeral. If the mental capacity required is beyond reading and regurgitating sections of right wing propaganda, you can't fucking do it.

I bet you still live with Mom.

Translation: I've never run a business and have absolutely NFI what I'm talking about, so I'll skip the entire thread subject and go straight for the cheap shot ad hominems.

Your capitulation is accepted.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one side of your mouth, you're acknowledging the need for regulation, while the other is insisting that govt regs are a "shakedown"

And in the real world, "taxes" <> "regulations" and besides, businesses never know what taxes the govt will be raising in the future. That's not new with Obama.

Bottom line: You can't identify one regulation that is a "shakedown".

You go find where I specifically stated to implied government regulation is a "shakedown"..
I stated that certain governments use licensce fees as a means to increase revenue. That's not a "shakedown"..
A shakedown would be if a government officail in one way or another communcates to an individual or business that if they do not "play ball" that person or business can expect "trouble"....THAT would be a shakedown. And BTW, in some places that is exactly what does occur. It is done by certain unscrupulous employees of government that have too much authority and not enough oversight. And example would be the plumbing inspector who wants his palm greased to get to a job to perform and inspection in a timely manner.
The regualtion itself is not the shakdown. It is the individual employee that is the shaker-down.
Don't make shit up to support your weak assed argument. That the equivalent of having a battleship mouth and a rowboat ass.

Some Govt regulatory agencies collect fees, but none do it "to increase revenue"; they do it to help pay for their operations. The way you described it, as a payment for which they get nothing in return, is indeed a "shakedown". If the business doesn't "play ball" (by paying), they can expect "trouble" (in the form of the govt shutting their business down)

And fines relating to inspections, etc can be appealed. All you have to do is prove you followed the rules. It's not that hard.

Unless you're a stupid wingnut businessman who thinks some govt pencil pusher has the final say.

If you do not think government uses license fees to increase revenue ,you're in la la land.
Look, it really doesn't matter what you think. Government regulation that is fair balanced and serves the public good is an essential function of government under the area of public safety or providing for the general welfare of the people.
Having a rouge employee of government knocking on doors of businesses looking for a "little something to speed things up" is a shakedown.
Now because you are a lib and a fan of big government, I will excuse your lack of comprehension skills.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Some Govt regulatory agencies collect fees, but none do it "to increase revenue"; they do it to help pay for their operations. The way you described it, as a payment for which they get nothing in return, is indeed a "shakedown". If the business doesn't "play ball" (by paying), they can expect "trouble" (in the form of the govt shutting their business down)

And fines relating to inspections, etc can be appealed. All you have to do is prove you followed the rules. It's not that hard.

Unless you're a stupid wingnut businessman who thinks some govt pencil pusher has the final say.

They do not use it to increase revenue?

Fees are part of government revenue, and any increase in fees increases revenue. They might claim the intent is not to increase revenue, but that is the inevitable result. Why esle have fees?