How many deaths are necessary before something should be banned?

[2aguy]

The problem of "background checks and common sense regulations" is that only honest people will comply with them.
The dangerous people who intend to use guns for crimes, are going to ignore the tiny penalty for getting guns illegally.

The reality is that if people are dangerous, then guns are not the main problem at all, since they likely should not be driving, allowed to buy explosives, flammables, toxins, etc.
Which means they need to be put into mental health institution like they used to before Reagan gutted them all.

They are only pushing universal background checks so they can demand gun registraton

 

[RetiredGySgt]

States do not and are not supposed to have rights.
Only individuals have rights.

States being closer to the people, can more likely reflect their choices and preferences.
But when it comes to medical decisions and what sort of family individuals want, clearly states have no jurisdiction at all.

States are the preferred means of Governance not the Federal Government. The Federal Government is supposed to have LIMITED power.

 

[sealybobo]

Most shootings are inner city violence.

I watch enough court tv and interrogation cam to know America is fucked up even without black people. Instead of picking on dysfunctional blacks who have an excuse, let's talk about these blue collar uneducated white Americans who are sick/evil/cruel/careless/thoughtless/murderers/rapists/angry/psychopaths/sociopaths.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I watch enough court tv and interrogation cam to know America is fucked up even without black people. Instead of picking on dysfunctional blacks who have an excuse, let's talk about these blue collar uneducated white Americans who are sick/evil/cruel/careless/thoughtless/murderers/rapists/angry/psychopaths/sociopaths.

Over half all murders are by blacks and 37 percent of all violent crime is by blacks mostly males so about 6 percent of the population doing it.

 

[hadit]

But no one is asking for guns to be abolished.

Let me ask you a question. How many family members of yours need to be gunned down before you will wake up and start being more open minded to common sense gun legislation such as

KEEP GUNS OUT OF THE WRONG HANDS​

• Alert Local Law Enforcement of Failed Background Checks
• Background Checks on All Gun Sales
• Close the Charleston Loophole
• Disarm Hate
• Extreme Risk Laws
• Prevent Gun Trafficking
• Prohibit People With Dangerous Histories From Having Guns
• Report Lost and Stolen Guns
• Require Prohibited People to Turn in Their Guns
• Waiting Periods

Family members? Take a few blue run cities out of the mix and all of a sudden, the gun deaths drop off a cliff. To listen to the usual suspects (you know who you are), you'd think people are getting shot at when they go to milk the cows.

 

[sealybobo]

Over half all murders are by blacks and 37 percent of all violent crime is by blacks mostly males so about 6 percent of the population doing it.

6% of of blacks, 3% of whites. Still too many whites for us to be pointing fingers.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

6% of of blacks, 3% of whites. Still too many whites for us to be pointing fingers.

LOL the white population is 60 percent of the US so I hardly think so. Further, more blacks kill whites then whites kill blacks over twice as many whites are killed by blacks as blacks by whites yet you retards claim whites are the problem. Less than 10 blacks a year are killed by cops that are unarmed and in almost every case it was because the black physically attacked the cop. Yet you would have us believe racism is rampant in our police forces. You are a deluded fool.

 

[sealybobo]

LOL the white population is 60 percent of the US so I hardly think so. Further, more blacks kill whites then whites kill blacks over twice as many whites are killed by blacks as blacks by whites yet you retards claim whites are the problem. Less than 10 blacks a year are killed by cops that are unarmed and in almost every case it was because the black physically attacked the cop. Yet you would have us believe racism is rampant in our police forces. You are a deluded fool.

Are you spreading lies?

A viral meme purports to list homicide statistics by race in the United States, as follows:

• Whites killing Blacks — 2%
• Police killing whites — 3%
• Whites killing whites — 16%
• Blacks killing whites — 81%
• Police killing Blacks — 1%
• Blacks killing Blacks — 97%

Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90%​

In 2017, the FBI reported almost identical figures — 80% of white victims were killed by white offenders, and 88% of Black victims were killed by Black offenders.

Though the numbers differ year-to-year, the stark difference that the viral post attempts to portray between the rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide — which it puts at 16% and 97%, respectively — is inaccurate.

Likewise, the post attempts to portray a gulf in the rate of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide — which it lists at 81% and 2%, respectively.

Statistics from the FBI in 2018 and 2017 contradict that claim.

In 2018, 16% of white victims were killed by Black offenders, while 8% of Black victims were killed by white offenders.

Similarly, in 2017, 16% of white victims were killed by Black offenders, while 9% of Black victims were killed by white offenders.

In both years, the numbers remained within eight percentage points, a much smaller gap than the 79% alleged in the viral post.

So for one, your using bad numbers. And two, even if they are worse, it aint by much. Then you factor in white privilege and lack of economic opportunities for blacks, and you see at least blacks have an excuse. What's ours?

 

[sealybobo]

LOL the white population is 60 percent of the US so I hardly think so. Further, more blacks kill whites then whites kill blacks over twice as many whites are killed by blacks as blacks by whites yet you retards claim whites are the problem. Less than 10 blacks a year are killed by cops that are unarmed and in almost every case it was because the black physically attacked the cop. Yet you would have us believe racism is rampant in our police forces. You are a deluded fool.

Just to sum it up.

Based on our research, all six purported homicide statistics in the viral post are FALSE. The significant race-based disparities are also false. In reality, rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicides are similar and remain within 10 percentage points of each other, around 80% and 90%, respectively. Likewise, rates of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide remain within eight percentage points of each other, at around 16% and 8%. And police kill Black people at disproportionate and much higher rates than they kill their white counterparts.

Fact check: Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black crime are similar

Rates of intraracial and interracial killings by civilians are similar, but police disproportionately kill Black people. A meme on rates is false.

www.usatoday.com

 

[LibertyKid]

Then maybe you should make your point better

I was pretty clear that the stats showed those who are affected by 2nd hand smoke and drunk driving. You then tried to state how alcohol and or tobacco affect only the alcoholic or the tobacco user. Point was made and I believe you may have missed it.

 

[LibertyKid]

The problem with this topic is that all the issues we see, are a direct result of the policies that these are people demanding more gun control, caused.

The moment you heard them say that mass incarceration is evidence of systemic racism, an explosion of crime and violence was the only possible outcome. What other outcome could there possibly be?

Are they going to randomly start grabbing white people, and tossing them into prison for no reason, so that we can balance out the racial makeup of prisons? Of course not. The only other option is, let violent criminals and repeat offenders out onto the street, which the more they know they can do whatever they want, the more violence will be on the street.

And the same exact people who pushed that policy which caused all the violence, are pushing to defund the police, and at the same time, saying we need gun control.

And when has banning, or controlling something ever worked? There is no example of that anywhere. Prohibition was a winner. And controls on drugs is why heroin is unheard of, and no one has over dosed on it in decades. Of course that’s sarcasm, because both are ridiculous example of the failure of regulations.

And you're correct. Prohibition created a black market for alcohol and NASCAR. But despite the laws, the regulations, etc., we still have thousands killed directly or indirectly by alcohol. Yet, the political and MSM narratives are not targeting those deaths. Those deaths are not part of any social justice narrative. My question is why.

As usual, this thread is WAY off topic. And perhaps we all know the answer to my initial question so this thread, like all others, goes way off topic.

 

[LibertyKid]

I watch enough court tv and interrogation cam to know America is fucked up even without black people. Instead of picking on dysfunctional blacks who have an excuse, let's talk about these blue collar uneducated white Americans who are sick/evil/cruel/careless/thoughtless/murderers/rapists/angry/psychopaths/sociopaths.

Yes, there are terrible people of EVERY race in this country. And this is clearly just an observation, but one difference that I see is that the poor white trailer trash keep most of their crime to themselves. We don't see nearly the amount of civil unrest, mass robbery, beatings, thuggery coming from poor white trash. This doesn't mean they aren't breaking the laws, because they do. Go on youtube and you can find just a many stupid white people doing stupid stuff and getting arrested for it, shot, etc as you do for all other races. The difference that I see, is those poor white trash keep it the crime confined to themselves or those very close to them.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, there are terrible people of EVERY race in this country. And this is clearly just an observation, but one difference that I see is that the poor white trailer trash keep most of their crime to themselves. We don't see nearly the amount of civil unrest, mass robbery, beatings, thuggery coming from poor white trash. This doesn't mean they aren't breaking the laws, because they do. Go on youtube and you can find just a many stupid white people doing stupid stuff and getting arrested for it, shot, etc as you do for all other races. The difference that I see, is those poor white trash keep it the crime confined to themselves or those very close to them.

I agree. I tell black people all the time no matter what the crime rate is in our neighborhoods you are still safe to walk down the street. Because people in our neighborhoods aren't targeting strangers. We are murdering our parents for their inheritance. Or we kill our wives for having an affair. Someone we know.

Or we have one nut who ruins our numbers. One white guy one day goes on a rampage killing 60 compared to 60 different black guys killing 60 different people.

1. Route 91 Harvest music festival, Las Vegas, October 2, 2017: 60 killed, more than 850 injured.

This was the most deadly mass shooting

 

[LibertyKid]

I agree. I tell black people all the time no matter what the crime rate is in our neighborhoods you are still safe to walk down the street. Because people in our neighborhoods aren't targeting strangers. We are murdering our parents for their inheritance. Or we kill our wives for having an affair. Someone we know.

Or we have one nut who ruins our numbers. One white guy one day goes on a rampage killing 60 compared to 60 different black guys killing 60 different people.

1. Route 91 Harvest music festival, Las Vegas, October 2, 2017: 60 killed, more than 850 injured.

This was the most deadly mass shooting

But that deviation in the stats, isn't enough to change or abolish the 2A.

 

[sealybobo]

But that deviation in the stats, isn't enough to change or abolish the 2A.

Change the 2A? Since the Constitution was signed, have we ever changed the 2A? How many times has it been changed?

 

[LibertyKid]

Change the 2A? Since the Constitution was signed, have we ever changed the 2A? How many times has it been changed?

You understand what is meant. State infringing on rights of the people

 

[sealybobo]

You understand what is meant. State infringing on rights of the people

Well we may at some point decide that it's too costly for us as a society to allow random Americans to purchase assault weapons. It could happen. Maybe it made sense back then but in the future it won't.

Handguns that hold 6 bullets, sure. My Ruger 450 bushmaster gun is for hunting. 3 round mag. Shotgun holds 5, those remington's from the movies hold 25 but you have to cock the trigger each time, hunting guns.

But Americans have become too nutty to sell them assault rifles. You agree right? Americans in 1800 weren't as fucked up as they are today. Jeffrey Dahmer types. American men are fucked up and getting more and more fucked up by the year.

 

[M14 Shooter]

But Americans have become too nutty to sell them assault rifles.

The Constitution protects my right to own and use an AR15, et al.
Your opinion to the contrary means nothing.

 

[sealybobo]

The Constitution protects my right to own and use an AR15, et al.
Your opinion to the contrary means nothing.

Nope. AR's weren't invented back then. Nor did the constitution mention AR's, or xray guns, or laser guns, or nuclear guns.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nope. AR's weren't invented back then. Nor did the constitution mention AR's, or xray guns, or laser guns, or nuclear guns.

Neither was the internet, but you can still spout your nonsense here without going to jail.