CDZ How partisan politics narrows your thinking

[jillian]

your "point" is a false equivalency that only a jew-hater would proffer

Sorry, I just don't see the Zionist's religious fantasies as something that young American men should die for.

that's interesting considering Israel, under various names, always belonged to Jews.

so tell me, dear, where is Jerusalem mentioned in the qu'eran?

 

[jillian]

they didn't... they were supposed to share. you might want to look into the grand mufti of Jerusalem.

*shrug*

Again, I find it amusing that they were supposed to "share' their land with some people from Europe because other Europeans said so.

Here's a crazy idea, if the Europeans feel so bad about the Holocaust, (and they should) then we should find a slice of Europe to give them.

the so-called Palestinians were Bedouins with no ties to Israel. does your resentment extend to the other nations created by international agreement? you know, like the UAE or Jordan or Iraq....each of which is purely muslim. so where there are about a dozen muslim nations, you resent the only one with jews?

my response to that, in all good conscience.... is tough.

 

[jillian]

If you really learn about what is happening and you come from a base of knowledge and experience, like I do, you are called a partisan by people who don't want to hear the truth.

Ironically, though, it's the partisans who think they have a vice-like grip on The Truth.
.

as opposed to pretend non-partisans? depends on how informed the person you're talking to is.

but let's call people who don't want us dragged back into the 50's "regressives" again while pretending it isn't partisan

 

[Mac1958]

If you really learn about what is happening and you come from a base of knowledge and experience, like I do, you are called a partisan by people who don't want to hear the truth.

Ironically, though, it's the partisans who think they have a vice-like grip on The Truth.
.

as opposed to pretend non-partisans? depends on how informed the person you're talking to is.

but let's call people who don't want us dragged back into the 50's "regressives" again while pretending it isn't partisan

I thought I had addressed this before. I'll try this one more time.

There is a significant difference between being partisan on individual issues and obediently, simplistically and transparently following the macro opinions and ideology of a tribe.

Of course I have strong opinions on the issues. I've linked to all of them in the second line of my sig, the only poster who is that transparent.
.

 

[usmbguest5318]

He does this all the time. Pretty much every day. I make a point, he illustrates it.

Weird, but you get used to it.

Yeah....in much the same way one gets used to suffering the fetid funk of effluvium in public restrooms.

 

[Mac1958]

He does this all the time. Pretty much every day. I make a point, he illustrates it. Weird, but you get used to it.

Yeah....in much the same way one gets used to suffering the fetid funk of effluvium in public restrooms.

I'm sure he feels he's accomplishing something of substance.

Who knows what, but if it makes him feel better, I'm good with it.
.

 

[Windparadox]

What concerns me the most - aside from the fact that these people are proudly making things worse - is that this behavior is no longer confined to internet message boards.I'm running into many people in real life who are more than willing to launch into a talking point- and shallow platitude-filled tirade at the drop of a hat. It's like this is a virus that continues to spread..

`
Predictable behavior however. I don't know about you but there comes a certain time one starts weeding out the chafe from the wheat....so to speak. When I do it, is is for no other reason than my own personal enjoyment of a site. I was a mod for a spell at another forum that used the "XenForo" program to run things, like this one. I particularly like their "ignore" function. It totally blocks a person, even their replies to others. Why spoil your enjoyment of a forum. Out of sight, out of mind. I use it judiciously.

However, for some people, they love arguments just for the sake of arguing. I don't want to pass judgement on them so if they pop up in a conversation, I just ignore what they say. It's a good discipline for the mind.

 

[PredFan]

If you really learn about what is happening and you come from a base of knowledge and experience, like I do, you are called a partisan by people who don't want to hear the truth.

Ironically, though, it's the partisans who think they have a vice-like grip on The Truth.
.

I know THEY do, and it really annoys people like me who REALLY do.

 

[JoeB131]

that's interesting considering Israel, under various names, always belonged to Jews.

so tell me, dear, where is Jerusalem mentioned in the qu'eran?

Again, I don't take the book about the flying horses any more seriously than I do the book about the talking snakes.

Nor do I think you have a right to steal someone else's land because you happen to belong to the same religion as people who lived there millenium ago.

the so-called Palestinians were Bedouins with no ties to Israel. does your resentment extend to the other nations created by international agreement? you know, like the UAE or Jordan or Iraq....each of which is purely muslim. so where there are about a dozen muslim nations, you resent the only one with jews?

my response to that, in all good conscience.... is tough.

I think it would be nice if we had borders in the middle east based on ethnicity...

But here's the thing. The Palestinians never were part of any "Agreement" to give half their stuff to the Zionists.

Also, people in those other countries don't spend billions lobbying our government to send young men and women over there to die needlessly.

 

[oldsoul]

I use the term regressive to describe those politically correct authoritarians who defend archly illiberal cultural practices, attitudes and behaviors as long as they arise from certain protected groups. Identity politics demands the suspension of actual liberal ideals in favor of a form of group think that regards these ideals as anathema.

These are fundamentalist systems of thought that demand conformity rather than any desire to foster liberal attitudes.

The liberal Muslim Brit who coined the term based on their aggressive willingness to defend and spin for the most regressive religion on the planet. But the liberals who have advanced the term expanded it to include other illiberal, authoritarian, regressive behaviors, primarily the group's efforts to shut down opposing speech.

It's a fit that works, in my view.
.

When I say that I have no tolerance for the way that women and gay people are treated in Muslim authoritarian regimes or by individual groups of Muslim believers, do you believe me?

Depends, what are you DOING about it?

Do I have to do something about it to not support it?

I don’t have a personal relationship with any Muslims who adhere to those weird tenets.

What do you think I should be doing?

Do I have to do something about it to not support it?

No, however that is not what you said. What you said was you have no tolerance for it. To me that suggests you feel strongly enough to do something about it. Let me give you a couple of examples to illustrate the difference, as I see it.
I do not support the NBA, but I will tolerate it as I see nothing wrong with the organisation.
I do not, however, tolerate racism, have ended relationships over it, and do my best to call people out on it whenever I see it. I believe it to be a stain on human existence.

What do you think I should be doing?

Whatever your conscience dictates you do. It is you who said you do not tolerate it, it should, therefore, be you who decides what to do about it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I use the term regressive to describe those politically correct authoritarians who defend archly illiberal cultural practices, attitudes and behaviors as long as they arise from certain protected groups. Identity politics demands the suspension of actual liberal ideals in favor of a form of group think that regards these ideals as anathema.

These are fundamentalist systems of thought that demand conformity rather than any desire to foster liberal attitudes.

The liberal Muslim Brit who coined the term based on their aggressive willingness to defend and spin for the most regressive religion on the planet. But the liberals who have advanced the term expanded it to include other illiberal, authoritarian, regressive behaviors, primarily the group's efforts to shut down opposing speech.

It's a fit that works, in my view.
.

When I say that I have no tolerance for the way that women and gay people are treated in Muslim authoritarian regimes or by individual groups of Muslim believers, do you believe me?

Depends, what are you DOING about it?

Do I have to do something about it to not support it?

I don’t have a personal relationship with any Muslims who adhere to those weird tenets.

What do you think I should be doing?

Do I have to do something about it to not support it?

No, however that is not what you said. What you said was you have no tolerance for it. To me that suggests you feel strongly enough to do something about it. Let me give you a couple of examples to illustrate the difference, as I see it.
I do not support the NBA, but I will tolerate it as I see nothing wrong with the organisation.
I do not, however, tolerate racism, have ended relationships over it, and do my best to call people out on it whenever I see it. I believe it to be a stain on human existence.

What do you think I should be doing?

Whatever your conscience dictates you do. It is you who said you do not tolerate it, it should, therefore, be you who decides what to do about it.

You are talking in circles.

 

[oldsoul]

The liberal Muslim Brit who coined the term based on their aggressive willingness to defend and spin for the most regressive religion on the planet. But the liberals who have advanced the term expanded it to include other illiberal, authoritarian, regressive behaviors, primarily the group's efforts to shut down opposing speech.

It's a fit that works, in my view.
.

When I say that I have no tolerance for the way that women and gay people are treated in Muslim authoritarian regimes or by individual groups of Muslim believers, do you believe me?

Depends, what are you DOING about it?

Do I have to do something about it to not support it?

I don’t have a personal relationship with any Muslims who adhere to those weird tenets.

What do you think I should be doing?

Do I have to do something about it to not support it?

No, however that is not what you said. What you said was you have no tolerance for it. To me that suggests you feel strongly enough to do something about it. Let me give you a couple of examples to illustrate the difference, as I see it.
I do not support the NBA, but I will tolerate it as I see nothing wrong with the organisation.
I do not, however, tolerate racism, have ended relationships over it, and do my best to call people out on it whenever I see it. I believe it to be a stain on human existence.

What do you think I should be doing?

Whatever your conscience dictates you do. It is you who said you do not tolerate it, it should, therefore, be you who decides what to do about it.

You are talking in circles.

No, I am not. What part are you unclear about? The part about how words mean things or the part about how you tried to reframe the topic when you were called on to elaborate? If your definition is different, simply say that, and we can move on. Unless, of course you wish to discuss this further. Just remember, I also do not tolerate people devolving into name calling, mud slinging and other juvenile behavior.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I asked the person if they believed me. That requires a yes or no answer.....not a challenge to prove it. I wasn't even talking to you.

Now...you must think that I have never "called out" the assholes from far away lands who treat women like shit while professing devotion to Allah.
I've done so hundreds of times.

You are trying to play a stupid game for some reason.

I don't believe that you are intolerant of racism, by the way. I've never seen you express that toward the
fucking racist assholes WHO POST HERE.

 

[Circe]

When you have 24 news channels who appeal to niche audiences and have to fill 24 hours a day with content, and who wants to spend money on correspondents and reporters, you do get lots of talking heads talking endlessly about that one kid in the dress who wants to use the girl's locker room like that is a critical issue.

Sure. Being loyal to our team is a good thing --- we SHOULD be loyal. This starving 24/7 media constantly on the hunt for anything, anything that can harvest our attention: that's the problem, IMO. There was a thing about revolt in the Maldives this morning. Oh, come ON. Naked savages news: never read it. Most TV news --- keep it off. Lurid crime news, lurid weird behavior news, two-headed babies: we are being hunted. Don't let them capture your attention this way.

 

[Circe]

Via intellectual isolation (choosing to expose oneself to only certain inputs, such as external information, similar minds, kindred spirits and internal thoughts) and pure repetition, the mind can be conditioned over time to believe some pretty amazing things. That's the foundation of what I think is at work here.
.

Interesting point ---- you are describing cults and religions, I see, at least. I can think of some things like that I've seen: in the 1970s a lot of scientists and their flagship Science magazine believed a new Ice Age was coming imminently and they carried on about it and reinforced everyone in their tribe for years. I followed that closely (and believed it, I was younger then). But the Ice Age never came and AIDS soon acquired all the attention, and now it's supposed to be Global Warming instead of an Ice Age.

Yeah, we do that, believe in more and more weirder and weirder stuff. I do believe in picking a side and being loyal to it, rather than floating out there pushed and pulled by the millions of people trying to trick us for their own profit and power every minute of every day, but on the other hand it doesn't hurt to be careful not to go overboard in our preferred direction.

 

[Circe]

The vast majority of us agree on most major issues.

Gracious, I don't think so!

Examples?? What several major issue do you think "the vast majority of us" agree on? Please define "us," whether it's just Americans or includes the Chinese, Muslims from the Maldives, and Polynesians.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

What several major issue do you think "the vast majority of us" agree on?.

Bacon.


That was sure easy

 

[peach174]

The vast majority of us agree on most major issues.

Gracious, I don't think so!

Examples?? What several major issue do you think "the vast majority of us" agree on? Please define "us," whether it's just Americans or includes the Chinese, Muslims from the Maldives, and Polynesians.

I was talking about Americans.
Most all of us agree on;
Believe in God
Are Patriotic
Preventing Terrorism
Thinks society should ensure equal opportunity for all
Birth control as acceptable.
What we disagree on is how to govern on them.

 

[Circe]

What several major issue do you think "the vast majority of us" agree on? Please define "us," whether it's just Americans or includes the Chinese, Muslims from the Maldives, and Polynesians.

I was talking about Americans.
Most all of us agree on;
Believe in God
Are Patriotic
Preventing Terrorism
Thinks society should ensure equal opportunity for all
Birth control as acceptable.
What we disagree on is how to govern on them.

I don't think the first two are areas of agreement, as Christianity dies in the United States (and is dead already in Europe). And many of us have given up on patriotism for several years now: the left because they detest America generally, and some of the right, as shown by the widespread prepper phenomenon --- if the situation further deteriorates, a lot of us expect other Americans to be our enemies.

 

[oldsoul]

I asked the person if they believed me. That requires a yes or no answer.....not a challenge to prove it. I wasn't even talking to you.

Now...you must think that I have never "called out" the assholes from far away lands who treat women like shit while professing devotion to Allah.
I've done so hundreds of times.

You are trying to play a stupid game for some reason.

I don't believe that you are intolerant of racism, by the way. I've never seen you express that toward the
fucking racist assholes WHO POST HERE.

Then you haven't been watching.