How we know Hitler was right wing.

[Saigon]

I never thought I'd see the day when right-wing posters would be insisting Lenin is the ultimate democrat!!

 

[Uncensored2008]

Firstly, the term would be "dull-witted", genius.

Secondly, the problem here is that I do understand what the terms mean.

Democracy is not mob rule.

ROFL

What a convincing argument.

{Do not be angry with me for speaking the truth; no man will survive who genuinely opposes you or any other crowd and prevents the occurrence of many unjust and illegal happenings in the city. A man who really fights for justice must lead a private, not a public, life if he is to survive for even a short time. (Plato - Apology 31e-32a) }

Democracy is the direct rule of the people, enforced by the majority. Many on the left, being generally ignorant and lacking intellect, often fail to grasp the distinction between a representative republic, and democracy. The main and more important distinction being the rule of law. Democracy is the rule of the mob, at any given moment, 51% can impose their will on the other 49%

It is not a pleasant form of government.

Democracy is not anarchy.

Because you are ignorant?

Democracy is not death squads.

It was in St. Petersburg. It was in case of Plato. His above condemnation of democracy was made as the mob moved to kill him.

Thus, Lenin was not a democrat.

ROFL

Was that your flaccid attempt to construct a syllogism?

btw. I am not "of the left".

And Jakestarkey is a Republican...

Sure...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Democracy and communism are mutually exclusive.

Your ignorance is astounding, beyond the pale.

Democracy and Communist MUST coexist for Communism to exist at all. You've never read Marx.

Communism is the dissolution of the state, where all is owned in common, communally. The people are arbiters of all things, i.e. direct democracy.

According to Marx, Communism cannot exist without democracy.

 

[Pogo]

I see another simple point has nevertheless sailed stratospherically over another short head. What a waste of words.
Try reading it again. And try keeping the original quote that it was response to. It has clues. That's uh, why it was there; without it, my post doesn't exist.

Pogo, you're not very bright, which is why you're a leftist.

The point, which was beyond your ken to grasp, is that democracy is nothing more than mob rule. Generally brutal and petty, as it was in the early Soviet Union. Even Lenin was forced to abandon the model. While I believe that the prime motive behind every leftist is to inflict misery on his neighbor, this turned out to be too much for even Lenin to stomach in practice.

Unsense, you are one addle-brained mental midget. I know what the freaking point was because it was my point in the first place. That point being to demonstrate, in the post you deleted from the exchange, Rottbrainer's "National Socialist Party - game set match", which I showed to be complete codswallop and its poster to be a simplistic ignoramus. Jealous?

Why else would it have contained "Grape Nuts"?? Duh. I mean no wonder your posts look the way they do --- you keep removing the context.

I can't help noticing some of y'all, the only way you can put a post together is to edit somebody else's post and then make a strawman out of it. Grow up.

 

[Saigon]

Democracy is the direct rule of the people, enforced by the majority. Many on the left, being generally ignorant and lacking intellect, often fail to grasp the distinction between a representative republic, and democracy. The main and more important distinction being the rule of law. Democracy is the rule of the mob, at any given moment, 51% can impose their will on the other 49%

Well at least we have gone from mob rule to rule by the majority - so we are half-way from gibberish to reality, but unfortunately one of the other principles of democracy is seperation of the legislative from the judicial.

So no - in a democracy the 51% can not do what they like, because laws still apply, including constitutional law.

To use the US as a system - no party winning 51% of the popular vote can decide to close congress, disband the army, seize weapons, double taxes or cancel future elections.

They can not do these things because laws prevent them from doing so. And to change the laws, you generally need a lot more than 51% of the votes in a parliament or supreme court.

 

[Oddball]

Training Manual No. 2000-25, published by the then War Department, Washington, D.C., November 30, 1928.

Democracy : A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude towards property is communistic***negating property rights. Attitude towards law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Result is demagogism, licence, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

 

[Saigon]

According to Marx, Communism cannot exist without democracy.

Um....I think if you read Marx you will find hat what he meant was that democracy was the starting point for an evolution from democracy to socialism to communism.

Communism can not exist with democracy like a worm can not exist without an apple to eat from the inside.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually, no, Lenin "abandoned the model" because he died.

ROFL

Lenin died in 24, nimrod. The local Soviets were dissolved in 22. Further, they were never used outside of St. Petersburg. It was a failed experiment.

And secondly, the USSR was never a democracy, was never intended to be a democracy, and avoided any of the trappings of a democracy.

That you are abysmally uneducated has no bearing on the structure of Lenin's empire.

There were no elections, no freedom of expression of free speech of freedom of the press - all of which are very much hallmarks of democracy.

ROFL

You are truly an ignorant fool. None of this has anything to do with democracy. You simply lack the education to grasp the meaning of the terms you bandy about.

Democracy is direct rule of the people - period.

Using your own definition of 'democracy' really isn't helpful.

It's not my definition, sparky. It is THE definition. The greek words demos “people” and kratos “rule” conjoined together to mean, literally, “rule by the people”

government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

In other words, mob rule - where the majority may impose their will on the minority.

Elections are irrelevant, perhaps redundant, since every action is at the election of the majority.

2.
a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.

Are you getting this from Howard Zinn?

Neither one are democracies. The USA is a representative republic, Canada is parliamentary republic.

 

[Oddball]

Democracy is properly defined as mob rule...There's no better example of such mob rule as a one-party state.

Overly educated imbecile.

Using your own entirely made up definition does not mean the term is now "properly defined".

Do none of you have access to a dictionary?

a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2
: a political unit that has a democratic government
3
capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy &#8212; C. M. Roberts>
4
: the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5
: the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

Democracy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Since when does, as a matter of course, that exclude the one-party socialist/communist/fascist state (majoritarian as they come), especially in that the term "free" is very often determined by ruling class socialist central controller hacks like you, Professor Chumlee?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I never thought I'd see the day when right-wing posters would be insisting Lenin is the ultimate democrat!!

That's because you're uneducated and ignorant.

 

[DiamondDave]

Democracy is the direct rule of the people, enforced by the majority. Many on the left, being generally ignorant and lacking intellect, often fail to grasp the distinction between a representative republic, and democracy. The main and more important distinction being the rule of law. Democracy is the rule of the mob, at any given moment, 51% can impose their will on the other 49%

Well at least we have gone from mob rule to rule by the majority - so we are half-way from gibberish to reality, but unfortunately one of the other principles of democracy is seperation of the legislative from the judicial.

So no - in a democracy the 51% can not do what they like, because laws still apply, including constitutional law.

To use the US as a system - no party winning 51% of the popular vote can decide to close congress, disband the army, seize weapons, double taxes or cancel future elections.

They can not do these things because laws prevent them from doing so. And to change the laws, you generally need a lot more than 51% of the votes in a parliament or supreme court.

A democracy does not require a constitution.. period.. false argument... and in a democracy, the majority can overturn the law to get the result they want.. democracy is rule of the majority which can be tyranny of the masses very easily

You see.. WE here in the US have a representative constitutional republic that has a constitution as protection against tyranny of the masses, even if parts of the electorate are chosen by popular vote... that is not inherent in a democracy...

But nice try

 

[Saigon]

I never thought I'd see the day when right-wing posters would be insisting Lenin is the ultimate democrat!!

That's because you're uneducated and ignorant.

No, not at all - otherwise I would be reduced to posting endless screes of abuse and using my own entirely random definitions of words.

I work with political theory on a day-to-day basis, so feel have a fairly solid idea what 'democracy' means.

 

[Saigon]

A democracy does not require a constitution.. period.. false argument...

It's also an argument that no one made.

 

[Oddball]

I never thought I'd see the day when right-wing posters would be insisting Lenin is the ultimate democrat!!

That's because you're uneducated and ignorant.

No, not at all - otherwise I would be reduced to posting endless screes of abuse and using my own entirely random definitions of words.

I work with political theory on a day-to-day basis, so feel have a fairly solid idea what 'democracy' means.

You misspelled "horribly convoluted".

 

[Saigon]

Since when does, as a matter of course, that exclude the one-party socialist/communist/fascist state (majoritarian as they come), especially in that the term "free" is very often determined by ruling class socialist central controller hacks like you, Professor Chumlee?

Firstly, I am not a socialist. Never have been, never will be.

Secondly, no fascist or communist state has free or fair elections. Hence, they are not democracies.

 

[Saigon]

That's because you're uneducated and ignorant.

No, not at all - otherwise I would be reduced to posting endless screes of abuse and using my own entirely random definitions of words.

I work with political theory on a day-to-day basis, so feel have a fairly solid idea what 'democracy' means.

You misspelled "horribly convoluted".

I'm not the one arguing against dictionaries.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Um....I think if you read Marx you will find hat what he meant was that democracy was the starting point for an evolution from democracy to socialism to communism.

Quite the opposite. The starting point is the dictatorship of the proletariat - which is precisely what Lenin attempted in 1921 Petrograd. According to Marx, as the society evolves, the need for ruling bodies fades and all simply live in harmony for the good of all others. Communism cannot exist outside of democracy.

Communism can not exist with democracy like a worm can not exist without an apple to eat from the inside.

You are extremely ignorant. While Marx criticized the British parliamentary system, direct rule of the people is the foundation of communal ownership of the means of production. (Communism.)

 

[Oddball]

No, not at all - otherwise I would be reduced to posting endless screes of abuse and using my own entirely random definitions of words.

I work with political theory on a day-to-day basis, so feel have a fairly solid idea what 'democracy' means.

You misspelled "horribly convoluted".

I'm not the one arguing against dictionaries.

You're only interested in looking at dictionaries as a crutch to try and support your completely baseless arguments....And you've failed.

 

[Saigon]

Oddball -

You're only interested in looking at dictionaries as a crutch to try and support your completely baseless arguments....And you've failed.

Much of the posting from weaker posters on this thread has amounted to "the dictionaries are wrong". The historians are wrong. The books are wrong. History is wrong.

Well, no, actually the dictionaries are not wrong. You guys are wrong.

And 99% of the world will wake up tomorrow and use dictionary definitions that makes sense and that everyone agrees on, and you guys will wake up wondering why no one agrees with you.

 

[Saigon]

Communism cannot exist outside of democracy.

Democracy is the road to socialism.

Marx

You are extremely ignorant

Possibly, but I am also right, as the quote above establishes. Marx saw democracy as a means to an end - not an end in itself. Also keep in mind that he said, "The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property." That is not democracy.

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/k/karl_marx.html#lrD4Sx3legsB05dg.99